Fett Helmet History

[boba87fett]

Well I got bored (thanks Covid-19) and decided to create my own updated version of the lineage helmet chart. I'm sure Art's will be better when he gets around to making it one day.

Here are all the notes I have gathered so far from mining TDH... PLEASE correct my information and feel free to add more information. If you have high definition photos of any of these helmets brand new, please send them to me.

I have been mining the gallery and posts so that I can put together a photobook in Shutterfly showing the lineage of the helmets. It's already over 30 pages and I'm about half way done with what I want to do with it. However, it will only be as accurate as the info I can find and it will only look as good as the photos I can collect.

Thanks,
Steven


Super Trooper Project

• Six helmets made in the UK with no dents.
• In the summer of 1978, six fiberglass Boba Fett helmets were constructed for the filming and publicity of the Empire Strikes Back.

"Eyes" Helmet

• Revised and sent to Sandy to become Pre-Pro 1.

Pre-Pro 1

• Eyes helmet.
• Fate unknown.
• Only unaccounted for original helmet.

Pre-Pro 2

• Cast and later stolen. Now in the hands of a private collector. Lee Malone owns the original "plug."
• was cast with the upper ear cap removed
• A mold was made of the Preproduction #2 Boba Fett helmet by Steve Patino at Don Post Studios in the 80's.
• When the original Preproduction #2 Boba Fett helmet surfaced a number of years ago, one of the surprises was a strong series of cut marks which start at the top of the dome and travel down the back of the helmet. We believe these cuts were sustained as Steve Patino cut a flexible glove mold from the helmet.
• Preproduction #2 Boba Fett helmet arrives at Don Post Studios
• Steve Patino molds Preproduction #2 Boba Fett helmet using a flexible glove mold
• Preproduction #2 Boba Fett helmet becomes locked in glove mold
• Steve Patino cuts the glove mold from dome to bottom of helmet, unlocking the Preproduction #2 Boba Fett helmet, and unfortunately leaving jagged score marks in the original helmet.
• Damaged glove mold is repaired and becomes a “waste” mold to create a first generation casting of the Preproduction #2 Boba Fett helmet.
• First generation casting of the Preproduction #2 Boba Fett helmet has seam puttied and sanded and is remolded, creating a 2nd generation glove mold with a “hard” mother mold.
• The 2nd generation mold is filled with Ultracal to create the Ken Tarallo plug.
• The Ken Tarallo plug becomes locked in the 2nd generation mold.
• Ken Tarallo forces the plug out of the mold, scoring the plug, cutting the glove mold, and heavily damaging the “hard” mother mold.
• Damaged 2nd generation glove mold is taped from the inside, improperly seated back into the damaged mother mold.
• At least one fiberglass casting, the Grant McCune Fiberglass Boba Fett Helmet, is taken from this restored mold.

Grant McCune Helmet Original Fiberglass Casting

• Cast from the Pre-Pro 2.
• the Grant McCune fiberglass casting is not a recast of the Ultracal plug as might be the first assessment but is instead is of the same generation as the tape is inset, meaning the tape was adhered to the inside of the damaged mold.
• Damaged Preproduction #2 2nd generation glove mold is taped from the inside, improperly seated back into the damaged mother mold.
• At least one fiberglass casting, the Grant McCune Fiberglass Boba Fett Helmet, is taken from this restored mold.
• fiberglass helmet
• The original FP GMH production mold (the very first one from 2009) does still exist, and is still in FettPride's library. It was retired due to excessive mold wear.
• The GMH original is now owned by Superjedi.

Grant McCune Helmet Corrected Casting (Replica)

• Its history traces back to a former model maker at Grant McCune Studios. We are told this helmet sat “out back” at Grant McCune Studios for untold years. Sadly, we don’t know how this helmet came into the possession of the Grant McCune Studios employee.
• FettPride took the Grant McCune helmet, made a mold of it and then pulled a helmet to be his new master to correct.
• GMH that FP offered, the GMH that Asok offered, and the GMH that Skyfire now offers are all the same base helmets derived from the cleaned up helmet done by FP from the Art Andrews GMH original as covered in Art's articles.
• The GMH (currently owned by Skyfire) is Fettpride's reworking of the original GM helmet that is currently owned by Superjedi.

Ken Tarallo Ultracal Plug

• Cast from the Pre-Pro 2 Helmet Mold.
• Ultracal
• The mold it came from was badly damaged and Ken believed it to be rendered unusable.
• The Ken Tarallo Ultracal plug has subsequently been cast, and at least two additional plugs created, and a small run of super-sanitized fiberglass copies were made available to less than a dozen TDH members.
• Sadly, castings of this plug cannot be made available to the public due to an agreement as part of the purchase that the helmet would not be mass-produced.

Lee Malone Pre-Pro 2 Plug

• Plug was cast to create the Malone Fett or MF Helmet.

Malone Fett Replica Helmet

• Cast from the Lee Malone Pre-Pro 2 Plug

Lava Replica Helmet

• While creating the Pre-Pro 2 "plug", now owned by Lee Malone, the mold was badly damaged. However, it appears the damage was repaired and a second "plug" was created and cleaned up. This plug was used to create the "Lava" helmet which still has the original mold's bottom skirt, but lacks several details and has damage cast into it that is not seen on Lee's plug.
• This history is sketchy at best, but eventually the "Mystery" helmets were derived from the "Lava" helmet or a similar casting. Wed do not know how many generations there was from one to the next and there have been many castings and recastings of the Mystery Helmet. ALL Mystery Helmets show the damage seen in the Lava helmet.

Don Post Replica Helmet

• The Don Post (DP) Helmets appear to be reworked copies of the Lava Helmet, much like the "Mystery" Helmets.
• The Preproduction #2 Boba Fett helmet left Lucasfilm, at some point in the early 80’s Don Post studios obtained the helmet to be cast for a proposed line of replica helmets.
• In the very early 80’s the Preproduction #2 Boba Fett helmet was sent to Don Post Studios to be molded for a proposed line of Don Post replica helmets.

Boba Maker Helmet

• The BM has been said to have PP2 origins

Mystery Replica Helmet

• The "Mystery" Helmet is the single most recast helmet in the replica prop community. Numerous copies have been modified and recast over the past few years. The most well known versions are the "Sgt Fang" and "Marrow Sun."

"Sandy" Helmet

• Badly damaged and currently resides in the LFL archives.

ROTJ Hero

• Machined metal ears
• The RotJ Helmet was selected for the filming of RotJ (we don't know why the ESB wasn't reused, but it may have something to due with the ESB being horribly cracked and held together with filler and epoxy. It resides in the LFL archives.

Pre-Pro 3 Helmet

• Resides in LFL archives and was mistaken for the ESB Hero and digitally scanned by Master Replicas.

Master Replicas Prototype Helmet

• Is a cast of the Pre-Pro 3 3D scan.
• Was NOT digitally corrected.

FettPride Premium Helmet

• is a recast of a Master Replicas Prototype helmet.

FettPride Budget Helmet

• Was also a recast of a Master Replicas Prototype Helmet, but with the the ear pieces molded in except for the RF cap piece.

Animefan Premium Helmet

• Resin with fiberglass
• Ears off

Animefan Budget Helmet

• Slush resin cast
• Ears on

RS Propmasters Helmet

• is a recast of a Master Replicas Prototype Helmet.

Darth Vorhees Helmet

• another Master Replicas Prototype Helmet recast with extra widening at the base to increase the flare at the bottom.

Master Replicas Production Helmet

• Is a cast of the Pre-Pro 3 3D scan.
• Was digitally corrected to "fix" the subtle things we really WANT.
• Painted in ESB Hero.

ESB Hero

• Machined metal ears
• They seem to have switched the ESB Hero helmet last minute in ROTJ for unknown reasons. If I had to guess, it may have had something to do with the ESB being horribly cracked and held together with filler and epoxy.
• Screen-used ESB: Second generation

eFX ESB Hero

• eFX molded the ESB Hero Helmet in 2013 and modified it/cleaned it up.
• eFX Helmet (as diplayed at Comic-Con): Third generation
• eFX mass-produced helmets: Third, possibly fourth generation
• Original helmet cast.
• Master pulled.
• Master lightly sanded to remove paint. Cracks (most of which are from AFTER the filming of ESB) removed/filled.
• Master cast.
• Molding master pulled and brought to SDCC
• They took away some of the known deformities that were captured in the film ESB, like the long crack on the right cheek in the black area, and the bump on the right upper cheek black area.

ROTJ Stunt #1

• The ESB helmet was one of these. It was molded and two rubber stunt helmets were made and painted to roughly match.

ROTJ Stunt #2

• The ESB helmet was one of these. It was molded and two rubber stunt helmets were made and painted to roughly match.

FPH2 Helmet

• Chris (FettPride) said, "it's not a fan sculpt nor does it come from a specific helmet."
• There are too many details that make this helmet not from the ROTJ stunt helmet rumors that have been floating around.
• He reworked an ROTJ Stunt helmet and made the FPH2.
• JC27 "I was told by Chris himself that it was from a PP2 cast."
• FettPride: "It is not an MR or variant, a GMH or GMH variant, a recast of a Malone Fett, or any pre-pro 2 variant. It is not an ESB hero helmet, nor a fan sculpt (though the primary scratches were added by me). That should about cover it. (For the record.)"

FPH2 AE 2015 ROTJ

• Reworked FPH2 ESB with ROTJ damage.

 

[Funkyred]

Recasts made the list?

 

[boba87fett]

I’m going to include photos of the major recasts on the chart, but not every single vendor’s version. When it’s all done I can remove them to make a chart without them. My book will have as many of the individual recasts as possible as kind of a history of the helmet prop making.

 

[Funkyred]

Machinecrafts metal ears don't fit minute fetts lineage hero helmet so that may add validity to the fhp2 not being cast from any of the lineage helmets. Tbh only lineage helmets should make the list imo. Where do you draw the line with recasts?

 

[boba87fett]

I guess that I don't really know the difference between a replica and a recast?

Should the Malone Fett, Lava Helmet, Mystery Helmets, Don Post and Banzai helmets be on the list then?

What is different about the GMH or original FP that came from a MR prototype? Obviously the FPH2 lineage hasn't been made public, so I don't know how to classify it.

 

[intwenothor]

Interesting.

I think the trouble with this stuff is that invariably it tends to lead to a lot of assumptions although you have to make some otherwise you'd never get anywhere.

On the subject of the Grant McCune helmet that superjedi now owns:

Obviously it has PP2 origins and as it retains some fine detail indicating it would tend to be a relatively early cast. There simply isn't enough information to state that it came from the same mould as the KT plug. It appears that something else might have come from the same mould as the KT plug but that doesn't mean it was Art's old GM helmet. The GM helmet could be a recast of that thing. I recall former forum member Singleseat stating that he'd seen several of these GM type casts over the years. Was Art's GM the first? It could be several generations down. It's certainly smaller than the KT plug. I can think of a theory that would explain its size issues that could place it as the same generation as the KT. The other theory would be generational shrinkage. Neither theory more provable than the other.

Additionally, I thought that MinuteFett and possibly Animefan also sold these GMH helmets, not just Skyfire. As far as I know it's the same basic helmet.



On the subject of the KT plug:

There are unaltered copies of this out there.

In 2015 the current owner of the KT plug made a new mould (2015) and copies were sold. The original run was 8 helmets in white/cream. There was also a 'prototype' which was green. There was a second run of, I think, 3 or 4 helmets. Some of the second run helmets had the ears removed at the request of the buyers. These are all the so called 'CT Malone' helmets. These are perfect, no shrinkage, copies of the KT buck. I know this because I had the KT plug and 2 of the copies in my possession in 2016 at the same time.

Superjedi confirmed that the original GM and the GMH corrected casts that FP sold were pretty much the same size. This is a GMH next to a a CT cast that I removed the ears from.

There are other unaltered copies of the KT plug out there. I've seen pictures of several over the years. They're cast in light grey. The appear to have retained a good level of detail from the buck; they look like good copies.

I don't know if there's any shrinkage. I've never seen one in person. The only way to know would be to have one in the same room as the KT plug or one of the CT copies. I recently saw one of these casts for open sale; it appeared to have an additional distortion that is not present on either the KT or the CT casts. This could be due to a dying mould or it might be for another reason entirely. That distortion can be seen on the top of the dome in this shot. This distortion is not on the KT, which already has enough issues.

It seems likely that the mould for these came from the Malone fett project via Paul Francis i.e. it's an old mould. Perhaps the person who sells them could expand on that.


On the subject of the Malone Fett:

There were 10.

One of the 10 was subject to further cleanup and then recast with the blessing of Lee Malone. These helmets are the, now called, 'Malone Day Fett' helmets. So, there are those too. This all happened much later. I'm thinking 2016. It's a nice helmet.


On the subject of the 'Fettpride budget'.

I believe this was a recast of a Master Replicas production limited helmet and not the MR Proto. I thought the different DVH helmets were also recast from a production helmet and not a proto; Lou?



On the subject of the Fettpride Helmet 2:

Remember what I said about assumptions right at the beginning, well here it is! I know people tend to get very defensive about the various helmet casts, especially if they sell them, so before anyone gets out of their tree I'll prefix this.........

It's my opinion. Get over it!

I've owned two FPH2s. One ESB and one ROTJ. I can tell you whoeheartedly that I felt a lot better about the ESB version than the ROTJ version. The flare on the ROTJ seemed huge!

Fettpride didn’t speak to the origins of this helmet when he first announced it in 2013, although he did go to some lengths to state what it wasn’t. The original announcement thread is here:

Introducing the FPH2 - ESB



It appears to me that the helmet is probably derived from more than one helmet with the GMH, or other PP2 based helmet, and the MR being likely candidates.

Despite the FP post there were two competing rumours that were, and have been, floating around since the beginning. In both cases TDH members would state that FP had informed them that the FPH2 was derived from either a PP2 cast, or from a ROTJ ‘stunt’ casting. Just to be clear; to my knowledge FP has never publicly confirmed, or denied, either of these rumours or any other rumours. Not publicly anyway.


i). The ROTJ stunt theory.

There are two known ROTJ stunt helmets. Both reside within the Lucasfilm archives and both were cast from the ESB hero helmet. There is the issue of the ‘Banzai’ helmet, which is, apparently, also derived from the ESB because it retains all sorts of ESB detail. Banzai was adamant that his cast was not the source of the FPH2, and that he had never allowed it to be recast. He has had it since 1986.

The Banzai cast is important because it lends credence to the ‘unseen stunt’ theory, which might support the FPH2 having origins from another ROTJ stunt cast. In the rumour mill the stunt cast from which the FPH2 came was badly beaten up, with many issues, and a missing keyslot section. On the negative side the FPH2 doesn’t exhibit features that it might were it derived from one of these casts. One of the biggest issues would be the dent; the known archive stunt casts, and the Banzai, have dents that appear ESB in origin. The FPH2 does not; the dent has that distinct PP2 look.

Fett from 1986



ii). The PP2 cast theory.

As previously stated, there are better lineage casts than the GM from the KT plug, other than the CT helmets, out there in the wild, however; shortly before his FPH2 announcement FP did acquire, and publicly post a PP2 cast he acquired. It seems likely this was related to the original Malone Fett process. The timescales for this cast to have been the basis of the FPH2 don’t match up very well; if using this helmet as a base it would have left only a week or two to produce the helmet master. There were pictures of the complete FPH2 in circulation long before the actual announcement, making it unlikely that cast was used, although it wouldn’t have been impossible. Of course, that does leave the grey unaltered casts on the table.

New PP2 Helmet Acquisition ...



The dent of the FPH2 – ESB bears a striking resemblance to the dent on the CT Malone but doesn’t share a lot in common with the EFX ESB dent, or the dents of the two known stunts or the Banzai. The dent seems like a PP2 with a little bit of extra work, to my eye.

Before the FPH2 announcement there was a GMH updates thread in which FP stated his intention to enlarge the GMH. In that thread he stated that rather than call the upscaled helmet the GMH2 that he was considering calling it the FPH2. He edited his posts in that thread at the end of March 2013 and removed any mention of upscaling the GMH or calling it the FPH2. Incidentally, that ties in with when photos of the FPH2 ESB first started doing the rounds. The earliest photos I have of it were taken 19/03/2013, which were close ups of the damage, and later on 26/04/2013, which was a full shot of the helmet.



This is the thread as it exists today…

GMH News and Updates

And here’s some of what he edited out.

Removed from post #1

“Third up. Back when the GMH project started, Art and I discussed a 'clean' GMH for an 'any movie' version choice to folks after the initial rush was over. That is, without pre-pro 2 scratches. This will finally be a reality next month if all goes well. It will be dubbed, GMH2. I've toyed around with the idea of enlarging this version a bit (very, very carefully). So that depends on how well received the idea is. Later, as time permits, I'll do and ROTJ version as well. 'Pre-damaged'. But let's not get ahead of ourselves, right? I've been guilty as hell for always having too many things going at once. We'll have no more of that lol”



Removed from post #4

“So that leaves the question to resize or not to resize and if so, make it a separate mold. Which is why I was on the fence. It means I have to make a third mold, and I'm getting lazy about making molds lol But, it's the only logical thing to do. So shall it be done 3 molds - one for the standard (PP2) GMH, one for a plain (undamaged) GMH, and one for an enhanced size plain GMH.

So that begs the question? There's ...

GMH = untouched original GMH
GMH2 = same as GMH bit without scratches

What will the third enhanced size plain GMH be? GMH2.5 ? lol Maybe it would be best to so away with 'GMH' all together for this particular since the lineage will have been compromised. Maybe go back to FPH genre to un complicate things. Perhaps, FPH2.

Before making the enhanced sized plain GMH, lets hear more consensus before I invest in it to make sure ....”



Removed from post #17 – In fact he deleted all of post 17 and replaced with the message ‘no longer relevant’. Post #17 was a huge post but much of it concerns the proposed pricing and other order updates.

“It sounds like this is pretty well received so far. The ‘clean’ version, as well as the ‘enhanced’ version.

There is a process to ‘enlarge’ models that will allow for the least amount of ‘loss in lineage’ as it were. I’ve been looking into it since November. I mean, it’s kind of splitting hairs in a way. If it is identical proportionately, and in detail … meaning enlarged without hacking and cutting and modding, it will be the exact same helmet, only larger. That’s about the best one can hope for. Size lineage is all that is lost.

That is the goal anyway. If it can’t be done this way, I’ll likely scrap the idea. I’m waiting for some more info before I commit because it’s fairly expensive to do. But, it looks to be a pretty sure thing.

Wolf – I get what you mean about ‘GMH2’ sounding like an ‘improved’ version. That is the dilemma. Ultimately, a minor one in the grand scheme of things. Historically, the helpful members of TDH help to clarify things like that for folks. BUT, your idea is simpler. I think I like it.”





This is post #13 from TDH member ‘Wolfsburg’, which is what FP was responding to in that part of post #17.

“As described. This naming scheme would make sense to me:

GMHa = untouched, original GMH

GMHb = same as GMH but without scratches

FPH2 = enlarged/otherwise modified GMH


Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but GMH2 makes it sound like it's "new and improved" but really it sounds more like a variant of the GMH. In my view the GMHa and GMHb would be more appealing to collectors who want something as close as possible to an original Fett helmet. The FPH2 would be a little more versatile, appealing to people with bigger heads and those that just want a quality helmet to do with what they please. It'd more or less replace the FPH perhaps?”



It can certainly be argued that this is pretty circumstantial, of course, but what isn’t is some of the measurements that both the GMH and the FPH2 share. The red line, on this picture, is meant to represent the distance between where the bottom of the red trim, behind the RF ear, meets the ear platform and where the back of the upper RF ear meets the red trim. I chose this measurement to demonstrate my point because it is contained entirely within the helmet and isn’t subject to cutting or trimming.

On casts that have known, decent, early lineage, i.e. where there are not many generations between the cast and the production helmet it is based on, this measurement is around 132mm. On the FPH2 it’s 125mm – 126mm; this is the same as the GMH. Again, it might be argued that this is circumstantial and it might easily be pointed out that the known stunts are shrunken from the ESB hero, from which they were cast, however; when these circumstantial issue start to mount up, the material indicates a PP2, likely GMH, base.

The keyslots appear to have been directly lifted from the Master Replicas helmet with some height shaved from the top. That’s relevant because, as with the GMH, FP specifically stated that the FPH2 was not an ‘MR variant’. In my view the material points to the contrary in respect of that section of the helmet. Once one statement looks shaky then they all look shaky.

“It is not an MR or variant, a GMH or GMH variant, a recast of a Malone Fett, or any pre-pro 2 variant. It is not an ESB hero helmet, nor a fan sculpt (though the primary scratches were added by me). That should about cover it. (For the record.)”


Does the FPH2 belong on a lineage chart? I think it probably does. Whatever the origins, it seems to be the single most popular helmet out there and, frankly, it's definitely got lineage to something! Clearly, my belief is the GMH with the MR, and possibly something else, thrown in. I'd love to know its true origins; maybe one day we'll get to see the workings!

Peace

Andy

Edit: Funkyred and boba87fett, if we didn't have recasts on the list then it would be empty and we'd only have a handful of licensed pieces. Actually, no, those are recasts too; we'd only have the original six!

 

[boba87fett]

Wow Andy. Amazing info and history. Thanks for contributing all of that. Especially the deleted posts, photos and links!

 

[intwenothor]

Wow Andy. Amazing info and history. Thanks for contributing all of that. Especially the deleted posts, photos and links!

Steven, it's worth repeating that my theory on the FPH2 is just that. Hopefully, that will save anyone else needing to point it out.

The deleted posts and photos should speak for themselves. Or don't. It depends on your point of view.

It's probably worth covering a few points on the KT plug as well.

There are competing theories on whether the KT is a first generation copy of the PP2. I think it's probably best to say that it just isn't known. A number of assumptive positions have developed over the years that support the opinions behind them.

The Minutefett PP2 cast, which I think is best to refer to as the 'Minute cast' to avoid confusion with the Malone Fett 'MF' casts, points to another mould. The minute cast is pretty gnarly but the burlap texture does not appear to match the burlap texture of the KT plug. That indicates another mould was made. The burlap on the KT and the GM does seem to match, which indicates a common ancestry. Despite the GM tape mark, it's still enitrely feasible the GM is a KT recast - given the amount of grey concerning both the KT and the GM there is considerable leeway for a variety of theories. I think it's clear the KT is the better cast and if one were to produce a replica from this ancestry then the KT would be the preferred option.
I think the Minute cast might sit as a failed attempt. Whether it was came before or after the KT is another consideration; it's possibe to place it as a first failed attempt, but it's also possible to think that after the KT someone could well have thought: "we must be able to do better than that!"


That said, it is entirely necessary to point out that the the KT has significant issues. It simply isn't a very good piece of casting. I think that's obvious. The GM even more so.

In my view Fettpride did an amazing job getting the GMH from the GM, which I've said before. I cleaned up a CT cast, a better starting point, and there were big issues to overcome, so Fettpride's GMH is really something. He couldn't do anything about the size issues but the overall cleanup was really very good. The dome of the GM would have presented a particular problem even though I am not convinced by the heating a pure glass shell explanation. You can see the difference in the domes of the GMH and the CT cast in the pictures I put up. Given his starting point I think he did a great job.

Also, Elliott mentioned the FPH2 ears. I did a comp on these a few years ago, which someone might be able to dig out, but I was of the view that the lower RF ear and one piece ear were very close to the GMH ear pieces. The upper RF ear was a close match for a MR ear.

Live the dream


Andy

 

[Keegan]

Additional insight.
FP told me "back in the day" that he had to cut the GMH into quarters and rebuild it to make it larger. Your posts make me wonder if the resized idea he was floating eventually turned inti the FPH2.
FP alluded that he had his hands on a ROTJ stunt casting. There is one in fan hands as well as a few vacuum formed copies believed to have been made at the time of ROTJ. Its not impossible he got hands on something but only he would know. I tend to doubt it. There was some weird stuff going on at that time and Im still not sure who was trying to twist what or why.

 

[boba87fett]

Has anyone else every enlarged a helmet by cutting it into quarters like that?

 

[intwenothor]

Additional insight.
FP told me "back in the day" that he had to cut the GMH into quarters and rebuild it to make it larger. Your posts make me wonder if the resized idea he was floating eventually turned inti the FPH2.
FP alluded that he had his hands on a ROTJ stunt casting. There is one in fan hands as well as a few vacuum formed copies believed to have been made at the time of ROTJ. Its not impossible he got hands on something but only he would know. I tend to doubt it. There was some weird stuff going on at that time and Im still not sure who was trying to twist what or why.

I recall you mentioning him quartering the GMH before. It adds weight to the old posts that he deleted and indicate the proposed method to the overall intention. Inserting MR keyslots into a GMH would widen the helmet straight off the bat. The keyslots on the GMH and the KT are too narrow. I suspect this could be a result of the first cut repair. The other thing I noticed with both my FPH2s was that the rear back panels had a sort of trapezoid quality to them making them look like extra material had been inserted there. Whatever the case I think the dent points to PP2 and the keyslots to MR. If I were doing a family tree, which I'm not, then I'd have the FPH2 linked to both the PP2 and PP3 by virtue of those points alone. The keyslots were obvious on the first one I owned, the ROTJ version, which I had in 2015 or 2016. I owned the ESB version at the tail end of 2018 I think. The dent screamed PP2 at me the second it came out of the box; it had considerably less work done to it than the ROTJ version. It's not just the overall circumference shape but the depth as well.

As you say, only he would know. I'd happily be proved wrong to know the truth but I'd have to see the workings to believe it and that doesn't seem very likely. Until that happens the GMH/MR theory seems perfectly plausible.

 

[Art Andrews]

This is GREAT information! I love seeing all this come to light! Great job guys! We could never get all of this on a poster, but love seeing it posted here so people who are interested can get a more clear history of some of these pieces!

I feel like I need to get the wiki back up and going and some of this info needs to be transferred.

 

[Art Andrews]

ii). The PP2 cast theory.

As previously stated, there are better lineage casts than the GM from the KT plug, other than the CT helmets, out there in the wild, however; shortly before his FPH2 announcement FP did acquire, and publicly post a PP2 cast he acquired. It seems likely this was related to the original Malone Fett process. The timescales for this cast to have been the basis of the FPH2 don’t match up very well; if using this helmet as a base it would have left only a week or two to produce the helmet master. There were pictures of the complete FPH2 in circulation long before the actual announcement, making it unlikely that cast was used, although it wouldn’t have been impossible. Of course, that does leave the grey unaltered casts on the table.

I can add a bit to this. Years and years ago (I don't remember when), I got one of Lee's early recasts of the KT plug from Dan (tyler_durden). It had some minor issues but was one of the earliest casts Lee made. I couldn't speak to shrinkage; Lee was never a master fiberglasser so the helmet was what it was but having owned one of the 10 castings Paul Francis made and not liking the cleanup Lee/Paul did to it (I eventually sold it) I was happy to have an unaltered casting, even if it was imperfect. When I sent the GM to FP, I also sent this casting to use as a reference. I was very clear with FP that he could not cast or use this helmet in any way except as a reference to correct the GM recasts. He promised he would... and you know him. I fully suspect he recast the helmet I sent for reference as well. It wasn't used for the GMH, but as you posted above, I suspect FP's new "find" was actually just a recast of the helmet I sent him.

Here is a photo of the helmet after some slight cleanup of the Lee's rough fiberglassing (cleanup made by FP) and a light coat of primer. I don't know how this would stack up to the CT castings as I have never had one of those in-hand to compare.

 

[intwenothor]

I can add a bit to this. Years and years ago (I don't remember when), I got one of Lee's early recasts of the KT plug from Dan (tyler_durden). It had some minor issues but was one of the earliest casts Lee made. I couldn't speak to shrinkage; Lee was never a master fiberglasser so the helmet was what it was but having owned one of the 10 castings Paul Francis made and not liking the cleanup Lee/Paul did to it (I eventually sold it) I was happy to have an unaltered casting, even if it was imperfect. When I sent the GM to FP, I also sent this casting to use as a reference. I was very clear with FP that he could not cast or use this helmet in any way except as a reference to correct the GM recasts. He promised he would... and you know him. I fully suspect he recast the helmet I sent for reference as well. It wasn't used for the GMH, but as you posted above, I suspect FP's new "find" was actually just a recast of the helmet I sent him.

Here is a photo of the helmet after some slight cleanup of the Lee's rough fiberglassing (cleanup made by FP) and a light coat of primer. I don't know how this would stack up to the CT castings as I have never had one of those in-hand to compare.

View attachment 187605

Ah, well that's interesting. I can only truly vouch for the CT castings versus the buck. Did your unaltered cast have the same sort of flattened back exhibitted in the 10 Malone Fett helmets that wasn't present on the buck? To me that distortion looks too symetrical to have been an accident.
Also, did your unaltered cast have that original top dome distortion that was on the picture of the grey cast that was in the cargo hold? Picture in post 246.

Whilst I've never seen one of the 10 MFs I did obtain one of the Malone Day Fett helmets recast from one; it's a fine piece of casting/fibreglass work - beautiful. I'd love for everything to be in the same room at the same time, but that seems unlikely. What would be truly interesting would be if the KT and the actual PP2 could be in the same room at the same time; again, that is unlikely.

When looking at the KT and GM, I generally think it's more relevant to look at the qualities of each cast rather than their direct line in the lineage chain. That works for everything except trying to create a family tree, which is what you're attempting! That makes for a messy family tree with lots of question marks inserted. I mean, really, all that's probably not in dispute is that they're relatively early casts of the helmet but placing them exactly in a tree is always going to require a judgement call and one that I don't envy; have you any progress that you can share? Certainly it seems more likely that the Mystery helmets came from one of these GM casts than from the KT given Tarallo's assertions concerning its guardianship over the many intervening years.

 

[Art Andrews]

Here is the back of Dan's helmet. Please keep in mind, there was some cleanup to the lower keyslot area.

 

[Art Andrews]

I think I have posted these before but here was my helmet from Lee compared to the MR prototype. The MR Prototype is irrelevant for this discussion but maybe this will help with a visual of the MF helmet.

 

[intwenothor]

Your unaltered cast doesn't seem to exhibit the extra top dome distortion that I'm seeing on the one that was in the cargo hold but just the usual rear dome distortion from the buck, so far as I can tell. I had to do a lot of work around the rear left orbital band and rear left dome distortion. It was a little nerve wracking to do.

It seems there are several batches of unaltered casts of the KT floating around; obviously at least your one, possibly others, via Lee M, the CT casts, and whatever these grey casts with the extra top dome distortion are. Would each possible line make your tree or would it be easier to just classify them as an overall group of KT recasts?

 

[Art Andrews]

Would each possible line make your tree or would it be easier to just classify them as an overall group of KT recasts?

I think this is no different than the Mystery Helmet lineage or the MR lineage. Trying to untangle it all is all but impossible. I have no interest in this becoming a poster of replica lineage, just giving a taste of the main lines and what is what.

 

[intwenothor]

I think this is no different than the Mystery Helmet lineage or the MR lineage. Trying to untangle it all is all but impossible. I have no interest in this becoming a poster of replica lineage, just giving a taste of the main lines and what is what.

Funnily enough, I recently saw a Stormtrooper helmet tree I had not seen before and I've seen some detailed Vader ones floating around over the years. Each is like a spider's web and quite difficult to read, crucially; if you don't already have a fair understanding of what is actually on the chart then it's virtually impossible to discern what is what and by what degree it is related to everything else.

 

[Art Andrews]

Funnily enough, I recently saw a Stormtrooper helmet tree I had not seen before and I've seen some detailed Vader ones floating around over the years. Each is like a spider's web and quite difficult to read, crucially; if you don't already have a fair understanding of what is actually on the chart then it's virtually impossible to discern what is what and by what degree it is related to everything else.

Yeah. You get into all types of politics and he said/she said scenarios. I'd rather update the poster to be above that pettiness, cover the original helmets, the licensed helmets, and any truly main lines from those, but not try to dig up every recast out there. The original intent of the poster was to be a history of the helmets and what has happened since then.