Let's talk about flare. This is it.

[syllander]

Probably just the photo itself lending distance factors to the actual image, but the Heilman pic of the ROTJ photo shows a steep angle on the LH ear.
It seems to also be sitting chin down which further tales the flare out. Funny that on all of the lids the closer the point of view moves towards the top, it seems to take on more of a conical footprint at the base.

 

[Darth Voorhees]

Also another factor could be where it appears it was broken and repaired on the RF side cheek/upper cheek. Of course that doesnt explain the helmet as Art holds it.. but again..i think its all about the angles.

 

[01Hawk]

Thank you for that MullReel - I thought I was the only one thinking that

 

[Darth Voorhees]

Ok so here is a compare side by side and an overlay i did with the pic of my helmet i posted above and the "between shots" screen cap.

Now i didnt do this to inflate my ego or anything lol..i just honestly wanted to see how close it was to the visual i was seeing in that shot. The angles of the photos are very close which is why i decided to give it a whirl. I think my helmet looks pretty close, and i did add that 1/4" width to the bottom of the helmet. the ear platforms appear to have very similar angles.

As far as the overlay..well its not perfect... between the angle of the photo not being EXACTLY the same, and the size of the photo may be slightly off .......and well im sure the MR isnt exactly like the Hero. But i think my helmets achieve the look i was after, and that little bit of flare was added to them, which was my main point.

I did not modify the angles or anything of the likes on the DVH helmet when i did this overlay. I just scaled the pictures to match size as closely as possible and tilted it a bit to match the screen shot.

 

[Keegan]

I'm actually almost positive the white helmet talked about above is the PP2 before it was sent to the U.S

Here is the PP2 before paint.



The flare: (NOT flair)

Some PP2 helmet dimensions follow and are compared to a few examples of castings that link back to the original helmet.


The ESB helmet is approx. 9 mm more in width. This may not always be the case depending on a few factors. Keep in mind the ESB is thin fiberglass. I've seen it measure a few mm less.

I have permission to post the above but I really cannot get into a discussion much more in-depth about the real helmets. But this is the first time dimensions from real helmets have been posted.. So Happy New Year!
Discuss...

 

[Hunter930]

All I can think about is this..................

hahahahahahaha gold

 

[Darth Voorhees]

I'm actually almost positive the white helmet talked about above is the PP2 before it was sent to the U.S

Here is the PP2 before paint.
View attachment 95004


The flare: (NOT flair)

Some PP2 helmet dimensions follow and are compared to a few examples of castings that link back to the original helmet.
View attachment 95005

The ESB helmet is approx. 9 mm more in width. This may not always be the case depending on a few factors. Keep in mind the ESB is thin fiberglass. I've seen it measure a few mm less.

I have permission to post the above but I really cannot get into a discussion much more in-depth about the real helmets. But this is the first time dimensions from real helmets have been posted.. So Happy New Year!
Discuss...

Awesome info Keegan!

Very interesting indeed. Much appreciated you looked into and were given permission to post that even if you cant go into much more depth. Very good info. I would guess it may have still been in a semi-cured state when removed form the mold and it "sank" a touch before it fully cured to give it the wider appearance..again..just a theory.

Yea i have no idea what the white helmet i posted was, it very well could be the PP2, you'd know better than I lol

 

[Keegan]

Oh yeah, it is important that the people who soon will probably measure their various fanmade helmets remember this:
In regards to the width or length of a helmet it is not really a good indicator of how "close" it is to the real ones. You could stretch out the smallest helmet there is and get some pretty similar results. The information about the real helmets is solely intended to show variation between them.
It is almost a certainty that all the original helmets came from the same mold. You can see in the chart that two fan castings from the Same Mold can turn out pretty differently and it was the same case with the original helmets.

So if your fan helmet stacks up, awesome. But it isnt necessarily proof of anything.

 

[Darth Voorhees]

Cant argue with ya Keegan haha

I dont think there is much more i personally could contribute to the discussion..i only know/think so much. I do know i added a touch of width to the bottom of my MR casts and i feel it has the ESB look i was going for. I just need to fix the mandible shapes and also the back is a touch pulled in so id like to fix that as well. Im sure it wont ever be a dead ringer, way too many variables involved as we are surely seeing in this discussion lol. But im ok with that...i just want a helmet that has that ESB feel to it

Now...what about the wavy brow? What are your thoughts on that Keegan? ... Andy? Like the flare...it seems like sometimes you see it and sometimes you dont. Do you think that is something i should incorporate into the V2 if/when i ever get around to it lol

 

[syllander]

Good info! Thanks for sharing that. If you could just get a damn time machine and have him roll the helmet forward just a tad this could be settled....

DV- that is a nice compilation shot there. Minus the brow it's pretty convincing in that shot. Nicely done.

 

[syllander]

The pic with Art in it displays moderate wavy brow and the squint on the left side, and really seems to capture an honest perspective on the ESB helmet.

IMO it would be awesome to add the wave and rework the dent features into the MR lid. It would be nothing but positives.

 

[FettFanatic]

I thought I saw a picture some time ago of the inside of the ESB helmet that showed damage to the front brow line. It looked to me like the helmet had been dropped and a chunk of the brow broke off and was glued back on. If they got it set too low after the repair it would give the bow a little wave. It might not be in some shots because it hadn't been damaged at the point the pic was taken. I don't know that for a fact. It is just a guess I have had.

 

[FettFanatic]

If you look at this pic under the right arrow (left side as you look face on at it) there is a definite crack line that is also where the beginning of the wave starts.

http://www.thedentedhelmet.com/gallery/art-of-star-wars-2000/p7294-boba-fett-costume.html

 

[Artakha]

I thought I saw a picture some time ago of the inside of the ESB helmet that showed damage to the front brow line. It looked to me like the helmet had been dropped and a chunk of the brow broke off and was glued back on. If they got it set too low after the repair it would give the bow a little wave. It might not be in some shots because it hadn't been damaged at the point the pic was taken. I don't know that for a fact. It is just a guess I have had.

That's a very interesting theory you have there. It sounds plausible to me.

 

[toofastrobot]

Found a good crack repair pic.

 

[Artakha]

Hmm...(I'm trying to think this through)... but how would that explain the wave? If it broke off and was glued back on, the piece would remain rigid, and (if)/when the piece was glued back on, if it was out of alignment it would certainly not look as smooth as it appears. So while it may have broken off at some point, it would have been glued back on exactly as it was before, which means the cause of the wave is of a different sort (probably when that area of the helmet was at least partially melted/liquid or otherwise chemically unstable). Just my two cents.

 

[FettFanatic]

That was the one I was thinking about catbread.

If they could get the left side (as you look at it) to fit back better than the right (which looks to be the case) they may have had to use more filler towards the right side and so it would dip down there more.

By the way notice some of the gray paint that looks like it accidentally got up on the dome on the right side. Probably happened during the repair.

Again this is all just my thinking so take it for what it is worth.

 

[syllander]

Yessir, I think this happened coming out of the mold too early, or just the FG creeping during the full cure time.

intwenothor- is the blue the actual color of the resin used or is it a coating?

 

[intwenothor]

Wow, lots of info to digest and consider here. Thanks Keegan for posting the info.

I too was thinking that the wavy brow may be due to that repair.

I'm not entirely sure on the colour. I was thinking the deep blue might be and that where it's lighter towards the bottom of the helmet could be over spray from a primer coat on the outside?

 

[Darth Voorhees]

So i did this little diagram.. this pic is from the costumes book. it is the ESB hero (left)and the PP3(right). I still believe that the ESB helmet is unique compared to the other helmets.

The green line is vertical (or very close to it. I duplicated the layer and moved the line with the arrow key in photoshop as to not skew the line at all) i followed the line angle of the left ear on both helmets with the yellow lines. You can clearly see the angle difference there, as slight as it is, but it IS there.

The orange line is the different angle of the mandible on the one side. Again you can see how the PP3 is slightly angled (maybe this is partly where the MR pinch came from?) and the ESB hero has it more forced outward toward the bottom.

The light blue line is the difference is the bottom width of the visor. The line is the full width of the visor on the PP3. Again i duplicated the layer to keep the line the same size and just moved it over with the arroe key to put it at exactly the same place as on the PP3. It comes up just short on the ESB. Thus showing that the visor was likely pushing out the mandible which in turn has pushed the side of the helmet outward slightly creating more flare on the one helmet. It also made the "squint" on the visor area on that side less, or pushed upward on the ESB than the PP3. It would make sense that it may have also pulled down the brow, assuming it wasn't fully cured when the visor was installed. I know from experience that you can manipulate a Fiberglass cast to some extent if its not fully cured. The not fully cured fiberglass theory was also mentioned in Ponte's paint thread as to why there is the bulge on the upper cheek on one side of the ESB helmet only. The epoxy from the mounting plate likely warped the fiberglass, before it was cured. Again leading me to believe the helmet was pulled from the mold and assembled before it was fully cured, which can lead to plenty of distortions on a cast. Most of the anomalies seem to be on the left side of the helmet (right as we look at the pics) It looks like the entire cheek panel is twisted.

All these things are very slight but i think are something that can be seen, even if someone cant pinpoint it, the ESB helmet does have differences from the PP2, PP3 and ROTJ helmets.

I think the PP2 and PP3 are basically the same, meaning they were obviously from the same mold and neither suffered any odd damage or warpage. The MR and MF/CTM/MDF were derived from these same helmets and i think thats why they all look similar in size and shape, excluding the size of the MR.

I'd also like to add that believe that its pretty safe to say ALL the helmets came from the same mold. I think the ESB was handled differently when it was cast, pulled etc and thats why it has the anomalies it has.