Blaster EE3 Vintage scopes and scope ring types

[MLS]

In a google search including "panorama" and other keywords I came across 'Hawke optics' or something of that nature.
They seem to be making budget run of the mill 4x20s now that look similar to most low end 4x20s. It's possible that 40 years ago the "standard" run of the mill 4x20 scope was being produced by hawke, rhino, hunter, etc.
I did not find any definitive proof of this being a Hawke, other than some quick image searching showing modern hawke panorama 4x20s (which are basic scopes that we see all the time in builds).

 

[intwenothor]

Okay gotcha. I did see the Hawke Panorama line but didn't see anything conclusive enough to form the link. Panorama is obviously a word synomynous with all things optic and sight based which is why I likened it to the Hunter range in being difficult to find anything meaningful. I was hoping the TJK might have thrown something up

 

[MLS]

For sure. I looked into it a few mins ago and found the same. There was as line- as im sure you saw, of hawke panorama scopes, but I didn't see any modern 4x20s. Im sure you'll get to the bottom of this.

 

[intwenothor]

Hmm, I doubt it. I didn't with the Hunter. I don't really look for these scopes too much anymore. I have a look on ebay once a week which is where I saw this but I don't actively look in a getting off my backside and leaving the house kind of way that I once did.

 

[RafalFett]

A bit offtopic, but I bought a Panorama hand telescope a while back, which is a great candidate for the Supertrooper/Pre-Pro/Promo sling guns ==> RafalFett Strikes Back... with the 4th Shin Tool! - Post #26. There's no info on the telescope, except these: panOrama and 25 x 30mm, while on the side of the box is this number 689 373 and a hand written text in german on the bottom - opa hätte das gerne nach gebrauch wieder 'opa' - which I translated to this - grandpa would like to use it again 'grandpa' -.

 

[scottjua]

Figured I should post this.

Got a Hunter 4x20 to replace my Webley 4x20 and before I shipped the Webley off to the new owner I took a few pics with my phone.

They're essentially the same size of course minus the differences pointed out in the OP.

 

[intwenothor]

Hey Scottjua, thanks for posting those pictures, the Hunter is the king for me for sure but it really could be any of them. I have some questions about your Webley scope pictured here. You have said they are essentially the same but to me they look quite different. The eyepiece on that Webley looks shorter; I've seen these scopes before but never held one (I think the Brand was 'Zenith' maybe) and although everything else is pretty much the same these shorter eyepieces have the S in circle symbol rather than the infinity sign. Was there a symbol of any kind on the Webley? Secondly, is the locking ring the unaltered original that came with the scopes? It looks the same as the metal ones featured on some of the 'Original Model 7' 4x20 scopes and is quite different from the plastic ones featured earlier on in the thread. Is it metal? Both of the scopes pictured seem to be missing the retention ring on the objective bell. Most 4x20s of the period should fit. Nikko Mounties 4x20s are pretty common and do fit if you're going to look for one...

Lastly and unrelated to your post here's another brand

Kassnar 4x20 Scope

There's no infinity symbol (no symbol at all actually) which is odd but there it is. It's of the kind I call 2.5 and the C Mount is original to the scope. It's in good condition. I guess that makes eleven. I think.

 

[scottjua]

Hey Scottjua, thanks for posting those pictures, the Hunter is the king for me for sure but it really could be any of them. I have some questions about your Webley scope pictured here. You have said they are essentially the same but to me they look quite different. The eyepiece on that Webley looks shorter; I've seen these scopes before but never held one (I think the Brand was 'Zenith' maybe) and although everything else is pretty much the same these shorter eyepieces have the S in circle symbol rather than the infinity sign. Was there a symbol of any kind on the Webley? Secondly, is the locking ring the unaltered original that came with the scopes? It looks the same as the metal ones featured on some of the 'Original Model 7' 4x20 scopes and is quite different from the plastic ones featured earlier on in the thread. Is it metal? Both of the scopes pictured seem to be missing the retention ring on the objective bell. Most 4x20s of the period should fit. Nikko Mounties 4x20s are pretty common and do fit if you're going to look for one...

The hunter came to me exactly as pictured.... except I moved the mounting feet in the "Boba" positions.

Ok, I shouldn't have said essentially the same as the following "except the differences pointed out in the OP" pretty much negated that...

The Webley came to me with a BSA, and Nikko Stirling. I MAY be remembering wrong... but I think I took the locking ring from the BSA and put it on the Webley since it was missing one all together. The Webley came just like yours pictured above... with the same infinity symbol in the same spot, and same mount. No pics of the symbol... I shipped it off already.

The windage caps were missing too, and I got those from a Universal 4x15, and they were slightly too big, so I shimmed the threads and then they stayed on snug.

So it had issues.

I think the eyepiece looking shorter is due to camera lens distortion. I didn't measure them though to be fair.

Also, yeah I'll have to look for a retention ring. Are we sure the prop scope had it?

This scope hunt has been fun, but I'm ready to put it behind me and get the last part I need, the "pool clamps" or whatever the hell holds everything to the webley and mpp. I wish I could find the real parts as most everything else on this one will be.

 

[MLS]

intwenothor , I just purchased some new old stock of 4x20s from a guy here in the states. Didnt recognize the brand but the scope rings look spot on. I'll have them in a couple days for pics.

 

[intwenothor]

MLS be sure to add some new brands if you find some to add to the receiver rings brands tally.
scottjua Sorry for a very tardy response but yes I'm sure the correct scope has the retention ring.

 

[MLS]

intwenothor , well, I received them today. "Industry Brand" from the shanghai air gun company.


The scope is a little over 1/4" longer than the common 4x20 dovetail that is readily available- which puts it at the correct length of around 10 7/8" or 275mm.

It has the short feet and actually has phillips head screws.

The adjustment knobs and the ring forward of the eyepiece dont have the same pattern (these are deeper, sharper, and bigger than accurate scopes' patterns.
Also, the adjustment knobs are more "squared" than the beveled accurate ones.

So basically, the rings are what I got excited about. These scopes were brand new- and at $6 piece, I couldnt pass up the rings.

So I bought 2 sets of rings for $12. Thats a bargain. The length of the scope is a plus as well. Fortunately for me, I have the correct threaded screws with accurate heads and cast adjustment knobs on hand (I include these in my scope kits) for an easy swap out.

 

[intwenothor]

MLS Nice addition to the b ring tally.

 

[Mugatu]

I received this 4x20 in the mail today:

I believe it has all the makings of a Type 2, and with the tall feet. From the research I did back when I bought it, Manu-Arm is a French company, although they were selling across Europe (at least in the UK and a few other countries during the early 80's).

I am super excited to finally have this in my hands.

 

[intwenothor]

Awesome find! What does that now make: eleven or twelve brands? I've lost count.

If that's a plastic eypiece then type 2 she is. Great addition. Thanks for posting it up dude..

 

[Mugatu]

Awesome find! What does that now make: eleven or twelve brands? I've lost count.

If that's a plastic eypiece then type 2 she is. Great addition. Thanks for posting it up dude..

Thanks, man. Yeah the eyepiece is definitely plastic.

 

[intwenothor]

I genuinely don't look for these anymore but a forum member asked me if I could sort him one out so I had a little peak. It just so happens that I came across a 4x20 in a brand I hadn't seen before. If I recall correctly this was one of those brands I had identified in the 4x15 version of the scope that would probably be out there (like the Kassnar). Turns out that assumption was right.

On this one I have swapped out the locking ring from the fat one to the correct thin one and swapped out the one piece mount (that I designated 'type C') for the tall feet receiver rings.

Relum 4x20

Live dream.

Andy

 

[Andymac84]

Very informative thread. Thanks for keeping that updated and sticky.

 

[intwenothor]

Another one for the list. I think we're now at 13 brands. I've had this for a while but misplaced it.

This one came complete with the receiver rings and tall claws. Type 2 scope with plastic eyepiece.


Dieler 4X20 scope.

 

[intwenothor]

A few updates on the brands list for you. These brands all offer the correct 4 x 20 model scope. Some small variations may occur as identified in the first post. I count 17.

Air Force -new
ASI (Anglo Spanish Imports)
BSA (Birmingham Small Arms)
Bisley Deluxe - new
Bushmaster - new
Dieler ++
Gamo/El Gamo ++
Hunter ++
Jason ++
Kassnar (no infinity symbol)
Manu Arm ++
Milbro (Millard Brothers) ++
Panorama
Relum
Rhino ++
Sussex Armoury
Webley (for Webley and Scott) ++

++ Denotes the brands that are known to have come with the correct receiver rings and tall claws as manufacturer fitted.

The following brands are confirmed as having sold the 4x15 variant of the scope which makes it highly likely that the 4x20 models may be out there somewhere; several now confirmed brands used to be in this list.

Crossman
Gunmark
Nikko Stirling
World Famous

 

[NickCline]

Phenomenal post, intwenothor ! And thank you again for helping me with my real parts build.