Various ESB Casts discussion.

BudaFett

Well-Known Hunter
I agree somewhat with intwenothor. There should be two graphics. One with just the actual family tree of helmets with no real regard for who is selling them. We can just list the efx pcr and G2 and leave it at that.

Another graph could include all the other helmets available for sale with a legend?
 

intwenothor

Well-Known Hunter
I agree somewhat with intwenothor. There should be two graphics. One with just the actual family tree of helmets with no real regard for who is selling them. We can just list the efx pcr and G2 and leave it at that.

Another graph could include all the other helmets available for sale with a legend?
This sounds like a sensible solution. If all of the different casts of this, and other casts, were truly recorded then we would be looking at a spider's web.

I saw such a chart, fairly recently, for lineage stormtrooper helmets and have previously seen similar for Vader helmets; unless you already know what you're looking at the charts are virtually indecipherable.
 

KaanE

Active Hunter
I agree with intwenothor. I think the chart is pretty good as is. It's a chart of the helmets that came from the original ESB helmet (either time). Not a family tree of all the Fett helmets. And I would also change the legally text as no helmet, but the eFX, is sold "legally", although it may (or may not) be sold with the blessing of TDH.
 

BudaFett

Well-Known Hunter
And I would also change the legally text as no helmet, but the eFX, is sold "legally", although it may (or may not) be sold with the blessing of TDH.
The "blessing" is a misconception. Regardless how one views the legality of the ESB-Hero in terms to RS or MCR-ESB the Administration only lets them sell and advertise for a reason. The only reason why the other helmet is available because it's a recast that has permission from the master owner.
 

BudaFett

Well-Known Hunter
They are not legal cast (be them approved or not by the TDH admins), more exactly they are not approved by LFL or Disney, this is what the term legally was meant by Andy and KaanE.
Oh I understand. I think what's lost here is the understanding WHY versions are allowed to be sold or even discussed about *here* and others are not.
 

RamSkirata

Hunter
I will change the terminology as intwenothor has suggested probably my time tomorrow.

The omission of anything past G2, however, i do not regard as a good idea as this is information that is really valuable and useful.

In fact I am the new guy here which makes me also the guy with the best perspective on what a new guy might think. True, by now i am fairly deep into the rabbit hole but it was only like 4 months ago that I started to learn all of this. I do remember well what was esay to understand from the get-go, what wasnt and what information I was looking for but was hardly able to find. From this perspective the chart present here was created as this is more or less what I as a new guy would have loved to find in the Helmet history thread. That kind of detail but with enough explenatory text to go along with it to make sense.

See it that way... A newbie will sooner or later have those detailed questions. Better already have the answers in a well organized chart instead of keeping the chart leaner and sending said newbie off into trying to get a glimpse of the details without any help.

Also if we were to ommitt anything below G2 we would have to delete a good portion out of the fett helmet history graphic, too.
 

RafalFett

Well-Known Hunter
I think too much info would be too much (you might end up writing a whole book about all the versions available). It would be great to add links to threads that have the info needed, but sadly some of these threads have missing images (one example is the MF and MR prototype comparison ==> PP2 casting vs MF - You be the judge and another one is the presentation of the MR prototype helmet ==> MR Prototype Helmet - Pic Intensive - help us, Art Andrews, you are our only hope!)
 

RamSkirata

Hunter
I think too much info would be too much (you might end up writing a whole book about all the versions available). It would be great to add links to threads that have the info needed, but sadly some of these threads have missing images (one example is the MF and MR prototype comparison ==> PP2 casting vs MF - You be the judge and another one is the presentation of the MR prototype helmet ==> MR Prototype Helmet - Pic Intensive - help us, Art Andrews, you are our only hope!)
Yeah... I dont want to committ to writing a book like boba87fett has taken on. And I would be the wrong guy to do it, too.

Instead, I will keep it to the level of detail present. Thank you, RafalFett .

One thing I'd like to do is updating the chart on the helmet history thread.
Imho there would be nothing wrong with having an "overview" chart and a more detailed one
 
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Funkyred

Active Hunter
Preferred Vendor
I would just add to the current version of the diagram and add the efx off shoot . The question is what could it called ? The efx tdh cast ?
 

intwenothor

Well-Known Hunter
René, I do take your point but without a relatively detailed explanation, like the book that Steven is working on, it becomes confusing really quickly. This is what I'm talking about, it's nowhere near as confusing as the Vader one, and since all of the Trooper Master business it would need to be even more complicated!

received_1037543136632577.jpeg
 

RamSkirata

Hunter
René, I do take your point but without a relatively detailed explanation, like the book that Steven is working on, it becomes confusing really quickly. This is what I'm talking about, it's nowhere near as confusing as the Vader one, and since all of the Trooper Master business it would need to be even more complicated!

View attachment 192970
I do see your point, though you gotta aggree that the current ESB chart is nowhere near as overwhelming as that. :) I showed it to my dad these days (who had no touch points with this previously) and it wasnt too hard form him.

Still... point taken! I will keep the level of detail on my mind and pay attention so that it will not get too confusing.

However... I myself am confused now... what am I supposed to change now, aside from reworking the wording around the "legality"?

Suggestion... Maybe taking out the mention of the difference in availability?
Omitting the mention of what was available to the public and what not, I do not regard as a good idea, as a newbie coming to the site will inevitably have the question "Ok now, this is all cool information, but how does that help me in deciding what I want to get for my Fett?"
I encountered the same problem reading the history thread.

All of that aside... I think it is a great step in the right direction, that by now we are only arguing about how to organzie the information :)
 
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intwenothor

Well-Known Hunter
I do see your point, though you gotta aggree that the current ESB chart is nowhere near as overwhelming as that. :) I showed it to my dad these days (who had no touch points with this previously) and it wasnt too hard form him.

Still... point taken! I will keep the level of detail on my mind and pay attention so that it will not get too confusing.

However... I myself am confused now... what am I supposed to change now, aside from reworking the wording around the "legality"?

Suggestion... Maybe taking out the mention of the difference in availability?
Omitting the mention of what was available to the public and what not, I do not regard as a good idea, as a newbie coming to the site will inevitably have the question "Ok now, this is all cool information, but how does that help me in deciding what I want to get for my Fett?"
I encountered the same problem reading the history thread.

All of that aside... I think it is a great step in the right direction, that by now we are only arguing about how to organzie the information :)
It's your chart so you should proceed as you wish.

My original point was that marking items as official or unofficial implies just that when the truth is that it is all unofficial, other than whatever the licensed company has produced. In theory even the terms like 'sanctioned' or 'blessing' with respect to what may be sold on the board is not really correct. Items sold on the board are simply those that do not conflict with the board code of conduct, i.e. no unauthorised recasting of the work of another member, which is why you have one set of recasts from Machine's 2nd gen cast that are okay and another that are not. I appreciate that this is somewhat a semantic argument. This is the grey area within the grey area that I mentioned because, really, none of these ESB casts should be out there.

As for how messy it will become, well; there's already one ESB derived recast that's not on there, which is the ESB modified to ROTJ helmet from the recently deleted thread. I think we could all see what it was and presumably that is why the thread is gone, but it is still out there so your chart is incomplete without it. I can't imagine it will stop there and someone else will do what was done with the helmet in the deleted thread at some point... and so on.

If this chart was truly to progress in this way then it will end up like the old Vader helmet tree. I did look for that but I have not saved a copy and it seems to have gone from the threads it was once in on some other boards. That thing sought to trace just about everything out there in terms of vader. It was huge and you needed to zoom in and zoom out just to try to read it. It was bonnkers.
 
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