The Mandalorian Boba helmet derived from Sideshow bust? If so, what changes - Discussion


56Strat

New Hunter
I ordered one, I know they aren’t the SA cast, but to practice my paint skills and have a nice display bucket, the price wasn’t terrible. But even his comparison photos prove that they aren’t the same helmet. The borden connector is way off. Plus the dent is in the shadows, but I’m willing to bet it’s a slightly altered recast of the sideshow. If it was or has any lineage to the show, I’m sure it wasn’t Fett.
 

bobafett22

New Hunter
Alright, so the post office came through extra quick and I got this in the mail today. I gave it a quick pass of grey primer and a black wash to try to highlight the paint details that are there.

There is not a single doubt in my mind this is simply a poor recast of a ROTJ sideshow helmet that had the turn signals modified and a sloppy paint job applied.

I asked a Legacy friend directly about the “19” labeling, asked him frankly, hey would you guys ever label a master like this? “No.” Does this look like the Fett you guys did for the show?
“No.”
hello Is possible to get the measurements of the helmet , thanks in advance
 

stormtrooperguy

Sr Hunter
So... a theory on this:
  • The claim is that the helmet is the source from which the Cobb/Boba/Deathwatch helmets derived.
  • It's generally agreed that the helmets in the show all come from the Sideshow bust.
  • it's not really understood how a production mold could make its way out of a real prop shop
What if...

  • Someone made a waste mold off of a sideshow bust, and pulled a casting to clean up / mold to be the master.
  • That waste mold made it into private hands.
  • Since it was intended to be destroyed no-one would really notice/care.
    These helmets being offered are from the LegacyFX waste mold?

This is 100% conjecture on my part. I have no connection to any of this other than having bought one of these before I came to realize that it is not what I thought it was.
 

RamSkirata

Hunter
So... a theory on this:
  • The claim is that the helmet is the source from which the Cobb/Boba/Deathwatch helmets derived.
  • It's generally agreed that the helmets in the show all come from the Sideshow bust.
  • it's not really understood how a production mold could make its way out of a real prop shop
What if...

  • Someone made a waste mold off of a sideshow bust, and pulled a casting to clean up / mold to be the master.
  • That waste mold made it into private hands.
  • Since it was intended to be destroyed no-one would really notice/care.
    These helmets being offered are from the LegacyFX waste mold?

This is 100% conjecture on my part. I have no connection to any of this other than having bought one of these before I came to realize that it is not what I thought it was.
I think its just as likely as any other theory, but you have claimed nothing else. Even if it were true, the very relevant question then would arise: "So what?" It'd be just a sideshow casting just like any other. Whant would have happened after the fact is what makes the Mandalorianb Boba.
The written number casted in also wouldnt really fit this theory.
 

56Strat

New Hunter
Okay, so they started a FAQ story today about the origins of the helmet and it seems that they took down the page explaining what this mold actually is. So it’s an early mold where the “original mold maker” made an incision on the front of the visor and they said that’s where there is a “squish” across the front of the helmet which makes it unique. So this is NOT the final Fett mold from the show, however a preliminary mold BEFORE all of the other changes were made. I think the words they used were “this is one of the master molds that the Fett helmet originated from”. So I suppose a pre tweaked “lineage” helmet with the exception being the flatness of the forehead and brow from the “squish” they describe.
 

Attachments

  • 9AE063B7-817B-409E-AE06-A1EB53A28A42.png
    9AE063B7-817B-409E-AE06-A1EB53A28A42.png
    1.1 MB · Views: 86
  • 96078772-C634-40E3-AB9D-28E3259612E5.png
    96078772-C634-40E3-AB9D-28E3259612E5.png
    6.8 MB · Views: 78
Last edited:

boba87fett

Active Hunter
TDH PREMIUM MEMBER
This seems so confusing at this point.

When I read Rod's claim on the top of his IG profile "The ONLY source for gen. 1 lineage TMS2 Boba Fett/Cobb Vanth helmets in the world" and then his IG story post today saying, "our casts are from a 1st gen master which comes from the same mold that the modified Fett (TMS2) Hero originated" I can't understand exactly what he's claiming at this point - other than he believes that the helmet he is offering isn't a Sideshow Legacy Bust recast.
Screen Shot 2021-03-11 at 10.40.40 PM.png


I want to believe him. I don't have any first hand knowledge regarding his character to think he is intentionally lying to people (and there are people like BudaFett vouching for him), but based on what I've seen so far and the first hand accounts from people like Mr Guy, I just don't see this helmet being a true G1 casting made from the Generation 0 Final Production TMS2 Boba Fett/Cobb Vanth helmets.

I initially thought he was implying something like: "I own a mold that was made by someone at Legacy/some prop shop by them molding the actual, final screen used TMS2 Boba Fett/Cobb Vanth helmet(s) and am currently producing first generation lineage, exact replicas of the TMS2 screen used Boba Fett/Cobb Vanth helmets."

However, today what he said was that their offered casts are *from* a 1st gen master [casting, not mold I'm assuming] so I'm also assuming that means that the casts he is offering for sale can't *be* 1st gen if they are "from a 1st gen master" unless he means a master mold that births 1st gen castings that was made from molding the original screen used helmet...

1615531075436.png

He also says that that 1st gen master comes from the same mold that the modified Fett (TMS2) Hero originated... what does that mean regarding the helmets he's offering...?

It sounds to me like he is saying that he owns a 1st gen master casting of a helmet that came from the same mold that the modified Fett (TMS2) Hero also originally came from.

What's not clear to me is whether or not he is still claiming that his helmet *is* the same as the Fett (TMS2) Hero versus that it just comes from the same original lineage and then after its creation, was modified and became the production Fett (TMS2) helmet.

Who knows at this point... but I think it says a lot that Mr. Guy's review of it is, "I knew going into the purchase that it very very likely was the Sideshow helmet, but it was a decent price even for that. If the dude dropped the ******** claim and sold it as the Sideshow recast it is, I wouldn’t have a single problem with it. As it stands now, with his claims, I can’t in good conscience recommend it. Keep in mind the turn signals were enlarged and that “19” added as “proof of it being from TMS2”, those were intentional changes meant to deceive buyers."

I personally don't have much skin in this particular game because I don't want to purchase a Sideshow recast or TMS2 Boba Fett/Cobb Vanth helmet. But, I think there are reasons that folks actively recasting the Sideshow Fett helmet and the EFX/Anovos Mando helmets aren't on forums much (if at all now). Could be to avoid having to answering those questions from folks and having to follow community guidelines. Maybe not. Could be other reasons too. And they don't have to be on forums if they don't want to.

Hoping for the best and that there is just some type of misunderstanding that will be cleared up in the future.

- Steven
 

56Strat

New Hunter
This seems so confusing at this point.

When I read Rod's claim on the top of his IG profile "The ONLY source for gen. 1 lineage TMS2 Boba Fett/Cobb Vanth helmets in the world" and then his IG story post today saying, "our casts are from a 1st gen master which comes from the same mold that the modified Fett (TMS2) Hero originated" I can't understand exactly what he's claiming at this point - other than he believes that the helmet he is offering isn't a Sideshow Legacy Bust recast.
View attachment 208582

I want to believe him. I don't have any first hand knowledge regarding his character to think he is intentionally lying to people (and there are people like BudaFett vouching for him), but based on what I've seen so far and the first hand accounts from people like Mr Guy, I just don't see this helmet being a true G1 casting made from the Generation 0 Final Production TMS2 Boba Fett/Cobb Vanth helmets.

I initially thought he was implying something like: "I own a mold that was made by someone at Legacy/some prop shop by them molding the actual, final screen used TMS2 Boba Fett/Cobb Vanth helmet(s) and am currently producing first generation lineage, exact replicas of the TMS2 screen used Boba Fett/Cobb Vanth helmets."

However, today what he said was that their offered casts are *from* a 1st gen master [casting, not mold I'm assuming] so I'm also assuming that means that the casts he is offering for sale can't *be* 1st gen if they are "from a 1st gen master" unless he means a master mold that births 1st gen castings that was made from molding the original screen used helmet...

View attachment 208581
He also says that that 1st gen master comes from the same mold that the modified Fett (TMS2) Hero originated... what does that mean regarding the helmets he's offering...?

It sounds to me like he is saying that he owns a 1st gen master casting of a helmet that came from the same mold that the modified Fett (TMS2) Hero also originally came from.

What's not clear to me is whether or not he is still claiming that his helmet *is* the same as the Fett (TMS2) Hero versus that it just comes from the same original lineage and then after its creation, was modified and became the production Fett (TMS2) helmet.

Who knows at this point... but I think it says a lot that Mr. Guy's review of it is, "I knew going into the purchase that it very very likely was the Sideshow helmet, but it was a decent price even for that. If the dude dropped the ******** claim and sold it as the Sideshow recast it is, I wouldn’t have a single problem with it. As it stands now, with his claims, I can’t in good conscience recommend it. Keep in mind the turn signals were enlarged and that “19” added as “proof of it being from TMS2”, those were intentional changes meant to deceive buyers."

I personally don't have much skin in this particular game because I don't want to purchase a Sideshow recast or TMS2 Boba Fett/Cobb Vanth helmet. But, I think there are reasons that folks actively recasting the Sideshow Fett helmet and the EFX/Anovos Mando helmets aren't on forums much (if at all now). Could be to avoid having to answering those questions from folks and having to follow community guidelines. Maybe not. Could be other reasons too. And they don't have to be on forums if they don't want to.

Hoping for the best and that there is just some type of misunderstanding that will be cleared up in the future.

- Steven
This is the exact snippet that I’m referring to. That is no longer on their page. Great that you got a shot of it! For whatever reason, they decided to remove that piece of information. From what I gather, it’s a very early-slightly tweaked-version of the helmet. Not the HERO helmet.
 

Funkyred

Active Hunter
Preferred Vendor
Watching and reading their posts on insta they (Rod and his Mrs) really believe it to be the real deal. They are even now starting to disrespect this forum and it's members.

The evidence available proves without doubt its not the base of the Boba Fett TMS2.
Visible ROTJ Paint details,
Ear platform differences,
Dent differences,
Brow edge shape,
Range finder topper shape /profile

It could be one of the deathwatch preliminary casts but factors such as :

Why would they make a mold of a ROTJ painted helmet with the dent still present?
They would have to rub it down and fill the dent to make another mold resulting in the shrinkage of an already small helmet? This doesn't make sense? The prop department would be making more work for themselves meaning it may not even be a DW recast. The studio would have simply removed all ROTJ paint details and filled the dent to make the DW master mold.

Plus the BFHCD cast is terrible, who ever made the mold mentioned by BudaFett and sold it to them was rubbish at doing so and obviously doesn't work in the trade.
 
Last edited:

212Wolf001HU

New Hunter
Watching and reading their posts on insta they (Rod and his Mrs) really believe it to be the real deal. They are even now starting to disrespect this forum and it's members.

The evidence available proves without doubt its not the base of the Boba Fett TMS2.
Visible ROTJ Paint details,
Ear platform differences,
Dent differences,
Brow edge shape,
Range finder topper shape /profile

It could be one of the deathwatch preliminary casts but factors such as :

Why would they make a mold of a ROTJ painted helmet with the dent still present?
They would have to rub it down and fill the dent to make another mold resulting in the shrinkage of an already small helmet? This doesn't make sense? The prop department would be making more work for themselves meaning it may not even be a DW recast. The studio would have simply removed all ROTJ paint details and filled the dent to make the DW master mold.

Plus the BFHCD cast is terrible, who ever made the mold mentioned by BudaFett and sold it to them was rubbish at doing so and obviously doesn't work in the trade.
Heddo there,
I follow their insta, I beg to differ. I saw no forum disrespect. I observed a small business owner referring to only one customer who bought the product and instead of asking for a refund about the quality of said product decided aired it here.
The last statement was a unprofessional but understandable.
 

Funkyred

Active Hunter
Preferred Vendor
Heddo there,
I follow their insta, I beg to differ. I saw no forum disrespect. I observed a small business owner referring to only one customer who bought the product and instead of asking for a refund about the quality of said product decided aired it here.
The last statement was a unprofessional but understandable.
I think the wording she used was something like "f**King ar**hole" not very respectfull or professional imo. The minutefettesque statement in a previous post was also out of order, Let's not forget they are defrauding unsuspecting people of hundreds of dollars with a recast of a licensed product. They cannot claim the moral high ground.
Its "all" our responsibility to expose these frauds for what they are on any platform. They have provided no evidence of their claim other than a slight squish on the brow / a score line on a cast and an unplausable explanation of how they allegedly acquired the mold.

I suppose we are never going to find out the truth but it always tends to surface in the end as stories and facts are starting to contradict each other.
 

Mr Guy

Hunter
Watching and reading their posts on insta they (Rod and his Mrs) really believe it to be the real deal. They are even now starting to disrespect this forum and it's members.

The evidence available proves without doubt its not the base of the Boba Fett TMS2.
Visible ROTJ Paint details,
Ear platform differences,
Dent differences,
Brow edge shape,
Range finder topper shape /profile

It could be one of the deathwatch preliminary casts but factors such as :

Why would they make a mold of a ROTJ painted helmet with the dent still present?
They would have to rub it down and fill the dent to make another mold resulting in the shrinkage of an already small helmet? This doesn't make sense? The prop department would be making more work for themselves meaning it may not even be a DW recast. The studio would have simply removed all ROTJ paint details and filled the dent to make the DW master mold.

Plus the BFHCD cast is terrible, who ever made the mold mentioned by BudaFett and sold it to them was rubbish at doing so and obviously doesn't work in the trade.
Don’t forget in addition to all of those points, the overall shape was modified, as well as the Borden being moved. I believe they modified the original digital sculpt to make the S2 Boba hero. Not just remastered an existing helmet.

As far as it possibly being the DW base? It should be noted it wasn’t just a painted helmet that was molded, it was a finished helmet with a visor installed. Whoever molded this helmet literally took a finished sideshow helmet and just slapped a sloppy clay base on it and molded it. Legacy has master molds of the sideshow helmet, meaning paint free, flashing still in place. They would have simply pulled a master copy and used that to modify for the DW helmet. They aren’t going to pull a finished sideshow helmet off the shelf and make a sloppy mold of it, it simply makes no sense.

The only thing they have that they can point at as “proof” is the claim that the turn signals were modified and they “did not do it.” If that’s enough of a claim to convince you this is somehow related to the show helmets, more power to ya...

I think the wording she used was something like "f**King ar**hole" not very respectfull or professional imo. The minutefettesque statement in a previous post was also out of order, Let's not forget they are defrauding unsuspecting people of hundreds of dollars with a recast of a licensed product. They cannot claim the moral high ground.
Its "all" our responsibility to expose these frauds for what they are on any platform. They have provided no evidence of their claim other than a slight squish on the brow / a score line on a cast and an unplausable explanation of how they allegedly acquired the mold.

I suppose we are never going to find out the truth but it always tends to surface in the end as stories and facts are starting to contradict each other.

I assume this is directed at me. I have no hard feelings towards these people. If my honest review causes that type of response perhaps they should reevaluate their desires to sell products. Especially ones that are quite dubious at best in nature.
 
Last edited:

BudaFett

Hi I’m Bobert!
I don't know why I'm being tagged but I don't think Mr Guy is 100% wrong or 100% right. I really wish they'd come in here and fully support their claims because if their helmets are what they claim it raises more questions than answers. They're sending me another helmet (just paying shipping due to issues with my last order) which again I will take pictures of and post along with answering any questions.
 

boba87fett

Active Hunter
TDH PREMIUM MEMBER
I don't know why I'm being tagged but I don't think Mr Guy is 100% wrong or 100% right. I really wish they'd come in here and fully support their claims because if their helmets are what they claim it raises more questions than answers. They're sending me another helmet (just paying shipping due to issues with my last order) which again I will take pictures of and post along with answering any questions.
I tagged you for the reason stated in the sentence you were tagged in
 

BudaFett

Hi I’m Bobert!
Like I've stated in public and private I wish they'd come here and publicly explain the origins of the mold. I can only make educated guesses from information I have. I personally don't think Rod is misleading anyone just but more information will only help his case to sell more helmets. What does G1 even mean for the helmets on the show? More questions than answers.

Like I said in my build thread the quality of the helmet is nice but the accessories needed work. For the price I paid I can't complain.
 
Top