RS Props Lineage Fett Helmet!
- Thread starter Fett 4 Real
- Start date
mortifactor
New Hunter
You are assuming all aspects of the photo are changed in a linear fashion. It is possible for certain tones to greater degrees than others. This is what makes image pre-sets, filters and lightroom profiles pleasing to the eye. Each is a different recipe.
Your methodology is completely flawed in this case, I'm sorry. You don't even have a reference for 18% grey in the photo, the bare minimum for objectivity when photographing objects for replication of real life colours. Your methods can't 'unbake' whatever nightmarishly hyper-real colours have been baked in by software on the capture side.
Even what you feel you know is subjective. But it is irrelevant, as tones are not affected in a linear fashion by things such as filters or camera software. Common sense isn't a qualification. You could even make the helmet appear perfectly blue or yellow without changing the rest of the photo. Would there be arguments that they are selling a blue or yellow helmet then? A layman with common sense would believe they are looking at a blue or yellow Boba Fett and think nothing more of it.
I've weighed in enough, there is a particularly snarky tone around these forums at the moment and I don't want to be part of it. If people would like to see what they want to see in order to pile on criticism, then so be it. RS shouldn't have posted such an out of whack photo.
PS: Try the curves next time, not the sliders.
Mr Guy
Hunter
We can agree on one thing, RS should be sharing some much better photos.
Go find some 18% gray.
jhfagan
Active Hunter
This thread so far is a great trove of color references for sure!
And the lighting differences are HUGE in trying to determine proper tone, sheen, etc.
If I may offer some shots of my recently completed ROTJ conversion of the ESB Hasbro helm, that really illustrate that point, the dome looks like two completely different colors, simply from the lighting.
My base was using rattlecans, and the main color was Tamiya NATO Green(pic1), then misted with Rustoleum Moss green (pic2), then the whole thing got a layer of Rustoleum Satin clear (after all the other base colors and kill stripes added) to, as I say "wet it up" a bit. (pic3)
But the main green color was nailed, IMHO, and when shot in the outside light (pics 4 and 5), much like the shot in ROTJ when Han bangs into Fett's jet pack, you can see his dome is noticeably brighter green looking in the sunlight. (pic6)
Last is my ROTJ completed helm inside, with daylight and inside light together (pic7).
But I would definitely be interested in finding out what the best rattlecan combination for ESB Fett green would be, if anyone's mapped that out!
And the lighting differences are HUGE in trying to determine proper tone, sheen, etc.
If I may offer some shots of my recently completed ROTJ conversion of the ESB Hasbro helm, that really illustrate that point, the dome looks like two completely different colors, simply from the lighting.
My base was using rattlecans, and the main color was Tamiya NATO Green(pic1), then misted with Rustoleum Moss green (pic2), then the whole thing got a layer of Rustoleum Satin clear (after all the other base colors and kill stripes added) to, as I say "wet it up" a bit. (pic3)
But the main green color was nailed, IMHO, and when shot in the outside light (pics 4 and 5), much like the shot in ROTJ when Han bangs into Fett's jet pack, you can see his dome is noticeably brighter green looking in the sunlight. (pic6)
Last is my ROTJ completed helm inside, with daylight and inside light together (pic7).
But I would definitely be interested in finding out what the best rattlecan combination for ESB Fett green would be, if anyone's mapped that out!
RafalFett
Well-Known Hunter
While the colors are important, it is more important that the colors are well balanced to each other. In this case the green is too dark next to the dark gray. If you change the image to grayscale you'll notice that on the RS helmet you almost can't see the gray patches, while on the original is clearly visible:
intwenothor
Well-Known Hunter
I think both are important but I do agree with your contrast point. I wonder if this is as a result of the misting being used?
ArchiveX
New Hunter
So the age old problem , everyone is wrong, he's wrong , their wrong , RS are wrong, everyone is wrong , its totally wrong, looks wrong , doesn't look right , not the right colour. etc etc etc
First of all Id like to add some interesting facts, No one has ever claimed we make the correct Fett dome colour, we make a tool set based on the tools that the ILM team used. This is an intricate and almost infinite adjusting curve when trying to replicate. If you gave the same paint that was used back then to the same people that painted them back then they would look different.
Our aim is to get the artist to interpret these colours in their won way to try to achieve what the masters did, it takes experience time and skills to replicate such amazing and unique work. There is an infinite set of variations you can create using 3 colours that we know make a good representation of the Original Fett Green, This is using a theory that it was not a mixed colour. No single Vintage Floquil colour matches the Fett Green on the ESB helmet, so.... And taking it to be fact and that Joe Johnson remembers what brand he used as he has quoted many times..so a few things are an option You layer or you mix or you do both, all are feasible are are likely..
It seems to us that for as long as people have been trying to paint a Fett that the goal is to have a unified set can't change it basic Dome colour. It also seems that most people have they're own beliefs and have their own standards. It is interesting to read all these comments about what is Wrong but never an actual post about what is right ?? So let me ask what is right? What is the common belief defines the actual colour in product form?
One thing I can say that goes against us as supporter of historical and evidential knowledge is that modern iPhones can not photograph colour especially Reds and Greens and nearly all photographs on line are from iPhones, that said I have just been with one of the New helmets at RS and it looks nothing like any of the pics in this thread, not one photograph. That doesn't mean it is correct but it does tell any discussion about the Helmet from an artistry paint of view being wrong is also quite Moot. Any Fett helmet topically painted detracts from its vintage lineage to quite a degree. The Art of an accurate Fett paint up is way more than just colour its the technique and application and density and ability to not make it look printed and news, Ageing it in the way it was aged from new is a serious art in itself. We just try to get artists to develop and engage in all of this combined. No 2 artists paint the same, no 2 artists would get the same results with the same paint.
It bothers me that people seem to think we are claiming to be the definitive Fett colour palette, we are not. We are claiming that of the colours available back then that they colours being used are the Most likely candidates, in the right hands with the right techniques produce amazing results.
If there is a definitive off the shelf Fett Green then you cant paint a Fett helmet correctly when using it as what the eye sees is a blend of weathering and layers, a good example of this is the varied hues that the helmet has from pic to pic, if it was a uniform colour like most want it to you have to under weather it ....then by the nature of doing so, not adding a lot of the charm that makes it so unique on the first place. There will always be compromise and always be a weakness in the link when painting a Fett Helmet but starting with the correct hues historically has to be a good thing......... Add the right talent and passion and keen eye and you can get anything you want
Out of the bottle Fett Helmet Green would be great for lesser skilled painters, only a small handful of people would be able to achieve this as only a hand full off people have ever had the access to do so.
Regarding the sheen its buffed Matt flat paint, takes seconds and is unnatural and uneven as it should be
Think of it as a cake ,,,,,,, A pre mixed Green not utilising the layers to me personally is like adding canned squirt cream to a delicate beautifully made cake instead of a rich icing. Getting the colour right is as important as painting correctly in technique, once one isn't there the helmet will never be what it could be
Our Fett range will evolve as the artistry does....its just a tool set
Then again they may well have made a custom mix , but if they did you get bet your life on it it was Floquil RR range ...then we start all over again...either way its all about the chase and fun of it
First of all Id like to add some interesting facts, No one has ever claimed we make the correct Fett dome colour, we make a tool set based on the tools that the ILM team used. This is an intricate and almost infinite adjusting curve when trying to replicate. If you gave the same paint that was used back then to the same people that painted them back then they would look different.
Our aim is to get the artist to interpret these colours in their won way to try to achieve what the masters did, it takes experience time and skills to replicate such amazing and unique work. There is an infinite set of variations you can create using 3 colours that we know make a good representation of the Original Fett Green, This is using a theory that it was not a mixed colour. No single Vintage Floquil colour matches the Fett Green on the ESB helmet, so.... And taking it to be fact and that Joe Johnson remembers what brand he used as he has quoted many times..so a few things are an option You layer or you mix or you do both, all are feasible are are likely..
It seems to us that for as long as people have been trying to paint a Fett that the goal is to have a unified set can't change it basic Dome colour. It also seems that most people have they're own beliefs and have their own standards. It is interesting to read all these comments about what is Wrong but never an actual post about what is right ?? So let me ask what is right? What is the common belief defines the actual colour in product form?
One thing I can say that goes against us as supporter of historical and evidential knowledge is that modern iPhones can not photograph colour especially Reds and Greens and nearly all photographs on line are from iPhones, that said I have just been with one of the New helmets at RS and it looks nothing like any of the pics in this thread, not one photograph. That doesn't mean it is correct but it does tell any discussion about the Helmet from an artistry paint of view being wrong is also quite Moot. Any Fett helmet topically painted detracts from its vintage lineage to quite a degree. The Art of an accurate Fett paint up is way more than just colour its the technique and application and density and ability to not make it look printed and news, Ageing it in the way it was aged from new is a serious art in itself. We just try to get artists to develop and engage in all of this combined. No 2 artists paint the same, no 2 artists would get the same results with the same paint.
It bothers me that people seem to think we are claiming to be the definitive Fett colour palette, we are not. We are claiming that of the colours available back then that they colours being used are the Most likely candidates, in the right hands with the right techniques produce amazing results.
If there is a definitive off the shelf Fett Green then you cant paint a Fett helmet correctly when using it as what the eye sees is a blend of weathering and layers, a good example of this is the varied hues that the helmet has from pic to pic, if it was a uniform colour like most want it to you have to under weather it ....then by the nature of doing so, not adding a lot of the charm that makes it so unique on the first place. There will always be compromise and always be a weakness in the link when painting a Fett Helmet but starting with the correct hues historically has to be a good thing......... Add the right talent and passion and keen eye and you can get anything you want
Out of the bottle Fett Helmet Green would be great for lesser skilled painters, only a small handful of people would be able to achieve this as only a hand full off people have ever had the access to do so.
Regarding the sheen its buffed Matt flat paint, takes seconds and is unnatural and uneven as it should be
Think of it as a cake ,,,,,,, A pre mixed Green not utilising the layers to me personally is like adding canned squirt cream to a delicate beautifully made cake instead of a rich icing. Getting the colour right is as important as painting correctly in technique, once one isn't there the helmet will never be what it could be
Our Fett range will evolve as the artistry does....its just a tool set
Then again they may well have made a custom mix , but if they did you get bet your life on it it was Floquil RR range ...then we start all over again...either way its all about the chase and fun of it
vader45
Hunter
The green still looks kinda rich. Needs to ne dullar.
But its still painted very well. I wish I can afford this atm.
Unfortunately the point I was making got lost - literally, because I edited the post and added another picture and accidentally deleted the sentence underneath the photos without realising!
What I was going to add was that the pictures I took didn't fully capture the colours of the helmet, I was simply going to make the point that people seemed to be judging the colours based on an Instagram picture and I simply wanted to make the point that when I had taken those pictures it didn't truly capture the colours on the helmet. Maybe it needed a picture taken in daylight but in all honesty I reckon it probably still would look different on the photos!
Having seen the helmet in the studio all I can really give is my honest opinion, which is that it looks absolutely amazing.
This is just my opinion of course, but Jon has done plenty of paint jobs in the past and I've seen the praise people have heaped on him. I don't quite get why people would think he had suddenly forgotten how to paint one of these lids correctly!
Just because he has painted lots of helmets doesn't mean he cannot be wrong sometimes. We are just giving some positive feedback and criticism, take it or leave it. People need to learn to receive some criticism, it will help them to improve.
I can't see the wrong in this.
Emperor Fett
Hunter
Who?
Light can affect things massively. The camera used can also change things drastically too. All these photos were taken with the same iPhone 11 Pro Max. All show a slightly different green.
This is my WIP ROTJ Hero lid. FPH2, also painted with Archive-X. Is it the right green? Most likely, no. There’s several thin layers on this so far. I have to be conscious of how much the clear and washes will further alter the colour. In reality it’s a little more green and darker than the 2nd photo.
This is my WIP ROTJ Hero lid. FPH2, also painted with Archive-X. Is it the right green? Most likely, no. There’s several thin layers on this so far. I have to be conscious of how much the clear and washes will further alter the colour. In reality it’s a little more green and darker than the 2nd photo.
Attachments
I've never said it was wrong to give positive criticism which of course is valid, I simply made the observation that the colours in the photographs didn't look the same as the helmet did in the flesh. I'm just saying i think people are making a critique based on off colour pictures, I think if people actually saw the physical product then they may have a different judgement.
wannab
New Hunter
Has anyone pulled Pantone color match numbers from the hero helmet? Seem like the EFX guys would have done this. I realize that would only match the current state of the colors on the helmet, but it would still be helpful. Colors can shift hues, fade and even bleach out over years, but having been stored in a climate controlled and possibly mostly dark place may have limited some of this color degradation.
In
I heard there was /is a Swatch out there ....
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