NEW MR FETT HELMET PICS

I got mine today, I'm pretty pleased with it... sans the pinched visor.... but I still like it. It seems HUGE, but then again... I'm not the best to scale things to ;)
 
Just got mine today as well...I have already repainted the RF. Could not take looking at the excessive spatter :angry Happy now ;) I am still working up the____'s to retool that added lip and refit a new visor. If that happens I will post some progress pic's ;)
 
I'm just curious if anyone has attempted to "fix" their MR helmet's visor yet.

I'd like to know if it was difficult, what materials were used and, if possible, see the results.

Anyone?
 
I've heard that mine will arrive within a week or so... can't wait to see this in person!

TK7602 - I agree... very surprised that this has not popped up on the bay of fleas yet (new model) :lol:
 
It may appear easy. As even I thought it would be. But it is not. Allow me to explain ...


in this pic of an MR that has been "fixed" (contained in the thread of the forum you just posted a link to) It throws off the top portion of the mandibles considerably. On the ESB "hero", the right side of the mandible should be higher than the left (orientation of the picture). It s now the opposite. And it makes the squint on the right side too large for the hero. Technically, the screen used "hero" had even mandibles. i think the hike on the right side happened after years of abuse in the exhibits. But either way, simply removing the visor and pulling out the bottom, totally ruins the image of the helmet (from what it's supposed to look like) IMO.

MRBobaFetthelmetVI.gif


To correct it properly (for the exhibit hero, or even predating that and going screen hero that is), it takes a cut, and a mod :facepalm

I got mine today, and decided to see what it would take, and soon realized that there was no way around it. So a word of warning to all MR owners - if you're contemplating it, don't do it unless you are happy with the result in the above pic. It may fix the narrow appearance at the bottom, but then it throws off the top of the mandibles as I just explained.

If you want to make the helmet appear more accurate to the hero helmet (at any point in time over the years - exhibit or screen) ...

bf1.jpg


bf2.jpg



Then you have to make a very careful mod. Teaser shown here ...

mr.jpg


It's hard to see because it's a cell phone pic, but the right side mandible now rides even to the left (instead of riding MUCH lower with the simple visor removal method shown in the first pic). And, it tightened the squint ever so slightly on that side, also matching the the hero (shown above - which was the same on screen).

When I have some more time, I will post up how I did it. I just wanted to take a moment to give fair warning to pay close attention to what you're doing so as not to waste your time with an inaccurate fix.

On a side note, the helmet is not true fiberglass. It has a fiberglass lamination layer inside under the padding, but the helmet is actually compresion cast in some sort of resin ( not gel coat) ,a nd then a lamination "stamp" that was pressed inside. At first I thought it was vinyl becasue it was soooo flexible. Like a DP 95-97. The saving grace is, it won't crack that easy at the squint like a true FG lid would.

Some of my own observations about this helmet -

The visor is actually two VERY thin (almost paper thin) sheets of acetate that have been laminated together with a clear glue :lol: It so doesn't make any sense. I can't see how that would have been cheeper than putting in a real visor :lol: And the time it took for someone (labor) to "hand screw" about 50 little screws in there? Mind boggling.

The ear caps are HOLLOW :lol: As hollow as they get. The RF assembly and electronics are absurd IMO. Ok for a halloween costume, but not for a "Master" replica.
Granted, it works well. But if you remove the ears, you'll see exactly what I mean. If you have no plans to, there is no need to consider what I've just said. I'm not slamming it, just stating my observation is all. If you're happy with it, that is what is important. My only problem is that MR was supposed to create an accurate replica. And in this one respect, I just can't fathom what they must have been thinking.

The paint job is very impressive for a mass produce item. Hands down the best.

All in all, I think it is a good helmet. I DO NOT believe that it is the 'Holy Grail", as some would like to lead you to believe. At least not for a "hero" helmet replica. I can't comment on pre-pro because I don't know enough about it, and don't care for it anyway. BUt for the money, it is a great piece. And will look great on display ... it certainly will be a conversation piece.

And finally, something that I thought was very odd. I fit the resin RS ears that I have up to it when I got the MR ears off of it, and they are over 1/8 th of an inch too short? So I suppose my question now is, did the MF helmet suffer some shrinkage after all? Or did the digital scan get blown up a wee bit by MR in consideration of the casting process and it possibly shrinking a bit during the process? I'm certainly not tryin to start anything. it is a legitimate question, and a thought to ponder. Hopefully, it can be answered in reasonable and responsible fashion. That's what this forum is about.

More to come if anyone is interested. And if anyone is interested in this particular helmet with the mod in place and done FOR YOU, let me know soon. Because if no one wants it, I'm not going to be as careful with it from here on out :lol: You will need to repaint some minor details on the "green ear" side of the helmet at the squint and band. But when all is said and done, it will be a much more "true" representation of what it should have been.

FP
 
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It may appear easy. As even I thought it would be. But it is not. Allow me to explain ...


in this pic of an MR that has been "fixed" (contained in the thread of the forum you just posted a link to) It throws off the top portion of the mandibles considerably. On the ESB "hero", the right side of the mandible should be higher than the left (orientation of the picture). It s now the opposite. And it makes the squint on the right side too large for the hero. Technically, the screen used "hero" had even mandibles. i think the hike on the right side happened after years of abuse in the exhibits. But either way, simply removing the visor and pulling out the bottom, totally ruins the image of the helmet (from what it's supposed to look like) IMO.

MRBobaFetthelmetVI.gif


To correct it properly (for the exhibit hero, or even predating that and going screen hero that is), it takes a cut, and a mod :facepalm

I got mine today, and decided to see what it would take, and soon realized that there was no way around it. So a word of warning to all MR owners - if you're contemplating it, don't do it unless you are happy with the result in the above pic. It may fix the narrow appearance at the bottom, but then it throws off the top of the mandibles as I just explained.

If you want to make the helmet appear more accurate to the hero helmet (at any point in time over the years - exhibit or screen) ...

bf1.jpg


bf2.jpg



Then you have to make a very careful mod. Teaser shown here ...

mr.jpg


It's hard to see because it's a cell phone pic, but the right side mandible now rides even to the left (instead of riding MUCH lower with the simple visor removal method shown in the first pic). And, it tightened the squint ever so slightly on that side, also matching the the hero (shown above - which was the same on screen).

When I have some more time, I will post up how I did it. I just wanted to take a moment to give fair warning to pay close attention to what you're doing so as not to waste your time with an inaccurate fix.

On a side note, the helmet is not true fiberglass. It has a fiberglass lamination layer inside under the padding, but the helmet is actually compresion cast in some sort of resin ( not gel coat) ,a nd then a lamination "stamp" that was pressed inside. At first I thought it was vinyl becasue it was soooo flexible. Like a DP 95-97. The saving grace is, it won't crack that easy at the squint like a true FG lid would.

Some of my own observations about this helmet -

The visor is actually two VERY thin (almost paper thin) sheets of acetate that have been laminated together with a clear glue :lol: It so doesn't make any sense. I can't see how that would have been cheeper than putting in a real visor :lol: And the time it took for someone (labor) to "hand screw" about 50 little screws in there? Mind boggling.

The ear caps are HOLLOW :lol: As hollow as they get. The RF assembly and electronics are absurd IMO. Ok for a halloween costume, but not for a "Master" replica.
Granted, it works well. But if you remove the ears, you'll see exactly what I mean. If you have no plans to, there is no need to consider what I've just said. I'm not slamming it, just stating my observation is all. If you're happy with it, that is what is important. My only problem is that MR was supposed to create an accurate replica. And in this one respect, I just can't fathom what they must have been thinking.

The paint job is very impressive for a mass produce item. Hands down the best.

All in all, I think it is a good helmet. I DO NOT believe that it is the 'Holy Grail", as some would like to lead you to believe. At least not for a "hero" helmet replica. I can't comment on pre-pro because I don't know enough about it, and don't care for it anyway. BUt for the money, it is a great piece. And will look great on display ... it certainly will be a conversation piece.

And finally, something that I thought was very odd. I fit the resin RS ears that I have up to it when I got the MR ears off of it, and they are over 1/8 th of an inch too short? So I suppose my question now is, did the MF helmet suffer some shrinkage after all? Or did the digital scan get blown up a wee bit by MR in consideration of the casting process and it possibly shrinking a bit during the process? I'm certainly not tryin to start anything. it is a legitimate question, and a thought to ponder. Hopefully, it can be answered in reasonable and responsible fashion. That's what this forum is about.

More to come if anyone is interested. And if anyone is interested in this particular helmet with the mod in place and done FOR YOU, let me know soon. Because if no one wants it, I'm not going to be as careful with it from here on out :lol: You will need to repaint some minor details on the "green ear" side of the helmet at the squint and band. But when all is said and done, it will be a much more "true" representation of what it should have been.

FP

hsdance.gif


Me too..
 
I would like to make these changes to my helmet but not before considerable thought...your observations FP has given me pause but at the same time reinforces my desire to make the mods. I would really like to remove the lip from the inside of the mandibles as well but after sizing up the flush of the face of the mandibles one would need to take down the inside of the brow as well...and that just might be a deal breaker for me. Could you address this issue Chris if you have a moment?
 
Heya guys,

Well, a couple of things. The mod isn't for the faint of heart. Spending this much money on a prop, just to have to do *this*, is quite disturbing.

Some of you have asked me in PM about how the mod would affect the over-all shape of the helmet (compared to MF /RS helmet for instance) as it lines up very well to his. I'm sure this question has been asked because you've probably figured out by now, it takes a cut to fix this reasonably.

My opinion in the matter is this. I think it is reasonable.

This goes back to the pics that Brak's Buddy posted of the comparison between the MF helmet, and the MR. And this is quite "breathy", so get a cup of coffee, or some popcorn, or something :lol:

the first thing that should be noted, is that the MR that was compared to the MF helmet casting, was to my understanding, a recast of an MR *Prototype*. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But my observations in that pictorial would tell me that it was an *early* version of the MR because of the following reasons ...

1. the dent on the raw MR that was compared to the MF had a VERY crisp dent, in contrast to the production pieces that we are receiving. This is a little upsetting to me. Because, no matter what mods you make to the production version, that is simply not correctible.

2. The whole rear of the the MR production, pooches out backwards much more than the MR that was compared to the MF. If you look at the pics again, the rear of the MR that was compared to the MF was much closer to the MF casting. This simply cannot be attributed to "squishing" the helmet from side to side either, as the MF and the earlier MR that was compared to it are nearly identical in flare from a frontal perspective.

3. The dome of the MR production is also different than the MR that was compared to the MF. The production version is more rounded like a *mystery helmet*, rather than more sloped upward from the band to the top of the dome on the non RF side of the MF dome ( which is obviously not a camera angle or perspective, as these two helmets were compared side by side, and the angles didn't lie). Even the MR that was compared to the MF is more rounded than the MF, but not to the degree that the production versions that we are receiving are.

There are more differences that I've picked up on, but it would take all night long :lol: The point I'm trying to illustrate is this.

The MR production helmet has seen a few obvious changes since it's prototype stage. When you consider that the MF helmet is the closest helmet anyone will ever handle to an ILM helmet, and the early MR that was compared to the MF was much closer in many respects to his than the production version, this tells me that we're dealing with castings that no one will be able to *fix* 100%, because these differences were most likely implemented in the 3d modeling stages, rather than a simple molding and casting malady. The reason i take this stance, is that in order to correct the above mentioned maladies, the helmet structure would have to be cut on different levels. My analogy for what went wrong in the 3d modeling would be almost as if you were to take a rubber casting of an ILM helmet, and pull it in one direction or another, and the *freeze* it in a particular spot, you've just altered the overall shape of the helmet at a physical, structural level. It can distort it in every respect, hence why the visor is *pinched*, an the only way to make it appear right, is to make a structural modification. Just removing the visor, or dabbing a little bondo on it -- won't even come close to fixing this.

Granted, some may throw out the argument that it is because although all helmets originated from the same molds, slight differences from helmet to helmet can be blamed on visor installation, how the helmet was pulled form the mold, ect. Whereas I *agree* with this whole heartedly in general, I don't however, agree that is what happened here. Simply because the early MR proto that was compared to the MF .. was much closer to the MF, and the production version is not. Which means, they nearly had it ... in that stage, it could have been a simple *visor install* malady, or *casting difference form the same mold* ... not enough of a difference to really bat an eyelash over. But since production, something went wrong. Too many structural differences/nuances from the earlier versions.

The bottom line is, I don't think that this helmet is waht we were all hoping it would be. If it were as close to the MF as the early MR was that was compared to it, I wouldn't be changing a thing ;)

As far as the mod to help the squint look better goes ( back tot he original question) ... it does alter the appearance of the helmet .... FOR THE BETTER.
It doesn't change the profile, it doesn't change the height of the non RF earcap mounting area. Because of the location of the cut, it really only pulls the top part of the visor up to where it needs to be to flex it back into position, and not much else. This is because out of a 6 inch cut, the first 2 inches moves up a negligible amount, and every other inch after that moves even less, because of the law of physics .. the farther away from the origin, the less it's affected the further back from the cut you get. If that makes any sense :lol: The point, is that it changes nothing that would be of an concern, even to a purist IMO. BUT - it's a moot point. Because my ultimate point to all of this is ... the production helmet is already altered. Obviously not as much as say, an *MH*. But still altered. So when you get right down to it, any modifications to correct anything on this thing, would be subjective, or left up to interpretation. In other words, you can mess up something, if it's already messed up :lol: If it's done right, it only further improves the appearance of the helmet for the better. IF IT'S DONE RIGHT :lol:

To make the mod, you have to cut about a 4 or 5 inch straight line, from the middle of the squint on that side, through the ear pad, and into the visor band of the rear. Just a deremel blade width. This allows the whole mandible to *float* ever so slightly, whilst you put it in the proper position. It's almost like there is too much material in there right at the squint, which is why it was so wide in production. It's not simply how it was trimmed by the ILM guys vs. another casting. Because if that were the case, all you would have to do is add a little material in there to tighten up the squint. And if you did that to an MR production, it would throw off the thickness of the painted visor area on the top and the bottom, and look WRONG :lol: SO it has to be physically altered. And again, it's not for the faint of heart. I mean, it's not hard to do, but it is hard to stomach after paying that much for something. And you have to also consider, that to make the repair, you need to fiberglass repair that area. That gets even more complex, because you have to remove the interior lining (at least mostly), and you have to grind out the hot glue to get to nice fiberglass for the repair to adhere to, ect, ect, ect. THEN, you have to repaint the area that has been cut through. And that just plain SUCKS. It will never quite look the same to most people. I really don't think that most of you are going to want to take that chance. So do it at your OWN risk, I don't want to be held responsible, because as with anything, this is supposed to be informative, but is still just an opinion. It is up to you to decide if you agree with what I've said here, by doing your own research, and making a comfortable decision for yourself.

And on one last note - yes, I *did* try a heat gun to correct this first. And unfortunately, as I stated above, there is just too much material at the squint area (the part that makes it too wide). No matter what, some of that needs to be removed.

Personally, I'm not going to bother with the repair anymore. I'm just going to make a copy of the thing for myself with *my* desired modifications. Again, if it's done right and looks the way its supposed to, it really can't be argued against accuracy, because it isn't accurate to begin with :lol:

I would really like to remove the lip from the inside of the mandibles as well but after sizing up the flush of the face of the mandibles one would need to take down the inside of the brow as well...and that just might be a deal breaker for me. Could you address this issue Chris if you have a moment?

I think this is by far the easiest thing you can do to this helmet. As there are no cuts through the paint on the outside, and nothing that can't be concealed once you put the lining back in. Just keep in mind that the lining should be removed, because grinding that lip out will get REALLY messy. it's totally do-able bro. Just use a sanding drum on your dremel and take your time. The only way you're going to hurt anything is if you go too deep. But if you use the outter edge as a depth guid, you'll be just fine. If I hadn't already taken mine to the degree I have, I would make this mod, and put it back together and call it good :lol:

And finally, I think that the only way we're going to get as close tot he early MR that was compared to the MF, is for someone to make those particular castings available ;)

I hope this helps in some way. I'd like to address it in further detail, but I simply just don't have the time, after seeing what this thing is all about, I'm just sort of disappointed :facepalm

:cheers

FP
 
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Thanks for the insight FP ;) Sometimes you just have to throw your arms up and say "Its back to the drawing board"... again! And the early stages of development looked so promising too. For all the money, the hype and anticipation...this helmet just falls short. :facepalm Well, at least it will look pretty in a display case.
 
WOW, great read FP...and soooo glad you're the one chopping this helmet up and not me;)...don't think I could do it..:lol:..after paying so much I mean.

And just so no one gets confused as to what exactly FP is talking about, here is the previous thread in regards to this topic.. MR vs MF " you be the Judge" http://www.thedentedhelmet.com/showthread.php?t=22952

I personally think all the questions that FP has posed are warrented......they are valid questions.
My biggest concern is that these questions won't be answered fully.. and some things we will never know. Unless someone from MR directly decides to post.:rolleyes
It is also very surprising that the Ears are hollow, and that some how this "Production" version is so far off from what we've come to believe was the standard, namely the MF.
Sometimes too many mods on MR's part is not always a good thing.(n)

It does disappoint me to find that MR cut corners and made this helmet so cheaply, then charge so much for a supposed Star Wars "Replica".:facepalm

Would love to see more Pics FP of the mods you're doing....(y)
 
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With the visor and mandibles being key issues and taking into consideration the comments made thus far regarding these mods, any thoughts about retro fitting a visor (new or same) into the existing space without grinding down the inside of the mandibles? in other words, using the 1/8 or 1/16 space that is already there. It would take a pretty creative way to secure the visor but it could save a lot of labor. Any thoughts?
 
Could anyone of you proud MR helmet owner be so kind and tell me the dimensions of the shipping box? Please!

Wolfi
 
And just so no one gets confused as to what exactly FP is talking about, here is the previous thread in regards to this topic.. MR vs MF " you be the Judge" http://www.thedentedhelmet.com/showthread.php?t=22952

I personally think all the questions that FP has posed are warrented......they are valid questions.
My biggest concern is that these questions won't be answered fully.. and some things we will never know. Unless someone from MR directly decides to post.:rolleyes
It is also very surprising that the Ears are hollow, and that some how this "Production" version is so far off from what we've come to believe was the standard, namely the MF.

OK, since I made the mentioned post, what questions might I be able to answer? I don't have an MR prototype in hand, but I do have the MF and I have access to a prototype. I also know a considerable amount about the original MR work on the helmet.

Also, gonna nix the idea of the MF bust shrinking, especially in the amounts FP mentioned about the ears as too many other dimensions line up perfectly. Shrinkage to that degree would have the entire helmet off and it simply isn't.
 
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