Miscellaneous Webley and Scott Flare Gun information.

intwenothor

Active Hunter
Dear Jamie, it doesn't look in terrible condition but I've certainly seen better. This is a Number IV mk I you have. Typically the best they seem to reach is about £250. It's the Number I and, to a lesser degree, the number II that are worth the most money. A number II in the £400 range and the number I commanding easily over £1000.

The value of this item will also increase if it is still a live fire item although that would require it is deactivated to comply with UK law.

Peace

Andy
 
This is a really interesting thread, has any one had any more experience with a real webley since? Any new owners? Id like to pursue one but feel a little bad about essentially destroying a piece of history. Love to have the weight of a real gun though.
Davethebookie makes a bronze webley replica from a cast of a genuine webley. Also offers a fully completed EE-3. Check the cargo hold. Mine is being delivered tomorrow.
 

intwenothor

Active Hunter
Oh dear god... That's not even a genuine webley stock & bracket, but one of the India Reproductions that were sold on Numrich not long ago for like $130
Ouch that sucks
I know, shameful isn't it. This is one of those Indian replicas thst have been floating around for years and go for, as you say, around $130 ($150 was more my experience). This is the same type of replica that Portumac based his replica stocks on recently. He wouldn't accept that when I pointed it out to him. He was also charging more for his replica of the replica than the replica itself. Mind you, he wasn't charging eight hundred and fifty quid!!!! This guy got rooked.
 

KenChan

Active Hunter
I know, shameful isn't it. This is one of those Indian replicas thst have been floating around for years and go for, as you say, around $130 ($150 was more my experience). This is the same type of replica that Portumac based his replica stocks on recently. He wouldn't accept that when I pointed it out to him. He was also charging more for his replica of the replica than the replica itself. Mind you, he wasn't charging eight hundred and fifty quid!!!! This guy got rooked.
Yeah.. And looking back through the auction, they way it's all worded, the seller really didn't do anything to mislead anyone or anything like that. No claims of it being a original genuine part or the like, simply stating what it is and it's purpose is for and the items condition. So even if the buyer had second thoughts, they're probably screwed on account of their own ignorance.
Outrageous price aside, those Indian replica stocks aren't all that far off. Hell It's what I ended up using for the replacement stock on my own Found Parts build so as to not ruin the original Hundred year old stock, though they do require a little work, including a lot of sanding, reshaping and redoing the screw holes in order to fit an original D-bracket etc etc if that's where it's going
Still feel bad for the buyer though.. but hey, fools and their money
 
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intwenothor

Active Hunter
Yeah.. And looking back through the auction, they way it's all worded, the seller really didn't do anything to mislead anyone or anything like that. No claims of it being a original genuine part or the like, simply stating what it is and it's purpose is for and the items condition. So even if the buyer had second thoughts, they're probably screwed on account of their own ignorance.
Outrageous price aside, those Indian replica stocks aren't all that far off. Hell It's what I ended up using for the replacement stock on my own Found Parts build so as to not ruin the original Hundred year old stock, though they do require a little work, including a lot of sanding, reshaping and redoing the screw holes in order to fit an original D-bracket etc etc if that's where it's going
Still feel bad for the buyer though.. but hey, fools and their money
You're a tough crowd; I think fools and their money is a bit harsh!

I agree regarding the wording of the auction probably not leaving much room for the buyer although I will say that I know the book that the seller writes of and I remain unconvinced about Webley ever having issued stocks for this revolver. Obviously we know that the flare gun stock will fit because both weapons feature the same basic frame. I looked into this issue a few years ago.

I can't see how this auction was won by anyone other than a star Wars person because a real collector would know and wouldn't pay this because the revolver itself could be bought for less so I agree that there is probably ignorance of what was actually on sale but I don't blame the buyer for that because I don't think it is immediately obvious that this isn't what it purports to be unless you already have detailed knowledge (like the sort of guy who obsesses over chamfers!;)). I don't see this being a simple replacement stock purchase, not in a million years, and would think a Woodman stock is vastly preferable to this.

There's a fair chance that the buyer may be reading this.

Did I ever get back to you about those eyepieces?
 

KenChan

Active Hunter
You're a tough crowd; I think fools and their money is a bit harsh!

I agree regarding the wording of the auction probably not leaving much room for the buyer although I will say that I know the book that the seller writes of and I remain unconvinced about Webley ever having issued stocks for this revolver. Obviously we know that the flare gun stock will fit because both weapons feature the same basic frame. I looked into this issue a few years ago.

I can't see how this auction was won by anyone other than a star Wars person because a real collector would know and wouldn't pay this because the revolver itself could be bought for less so I agree that there is probably ignorance of what was actually on sale but I don't blame the buyer for that because I don't think it is immediately obvious that this isn't what it purports to be unless you already have detailed knowledge (like the sort of guy who obsesses over chamfers!;)). I don't see this being a simple replacement stock purchase, not in a million years, and would think a Woodman stock is vastly preferable to this.

There's a fair chance that the buyer may be reading this.

Did I ever get back to you about those eyepieces?
Hahaha, yeah maybe that was a little bit harsh, so apologies to the buyer if they indeed are from this forum. I also collect vintage WWII rifles (k98's are my passion) and it's a phrase that gets thrown around by people in that community when a rifle that's either been faked, or holds little actual value for various reasons, sells for an otherwise astronomical price because the buyer didn't have the knowledge to see said flaws beforehand. It's something that unfortunately does happen all too often, and is sadly something that can be easily avoided if only a few questions were to be asked beforehand. I think there're at least a few threads here well documenting these repro shoulder stocks. The biggest identifier on these is the poor casting of the brass grip which has the crosshatch pattern overlap the center diamond detail.

Regarding webley issuing stocks for the revolver itself. There do indeed exist a few genuine examples of these that are serial numbered to the revolver they came with, though such examples seem to be on the rare side. I imagine that they, like the flare gun itself, were also a design birthed out of the the trench warfare that began in late 1914 in order to fill a specific need. In this case I imagine they were intended to be kind of like a predecessor to the sub machine gun. A weapon that could provide quick and accurate shots while storming trenches against an enemy who would be using slower operating bolt action rifles

Hey even you've gotta admit that the weird variance of those champers and shape of the lug on the D-bracket are pretty interesting! I still cant make any sense of their pattern :lol:
Yeah, I'm all set on the eye pieces for my build for now. Thanks again for hooking me up!
 
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intwenothor

Active Hunter
I got stung buying the wrong 4x20 ASI scope years ago. I paid £150 for something worth less than a tenth of that so it happens to everyone. People tend to be embarrassed and hush it away but you don't know what you don't know.

Do you have evidence of these matching serial numbered revolvers or is it hearsay?

I concur on the chamfers. Fascinating and weird.

On the eyepieces are you saying I actually sorted you out? I've no recollection of that and have just been putting some aside as I tidy up my remaining scopes.
 

KenChan

Active Hunter
I got stung buying the wrong 4x20 ASI scope years ago. I paid £150 for something worth less than a tenth of that so it happens to everyone. People tend to be embarrassed and hush it away but you don't know what you don't know.

Do you have evidence of these matching serial numbered revolvers or is it hearsay?

I concur on the chamfers. Fascinating and weird.

On the eyepieces are you saying I actually sorted you out? I've no recollection of that and have just been putting some aside as I tidy up my remaining scopes.
I don't really have any hard evidence per se. Way back when I was hunting down my own Webley, I came across a few examples at various auctions and gunshows. Never really payed much attention to them outside of thinking they were neat, so I never saved any photos. I'm sure there's probably a few guys over on Gunboards who would have info on them though. Did a quick search and came across these examples, all with D-brackets and grips that look to be originals with serial numbers. No idea if they actually match the revolvers though. There's also stories of guys in the trenches taking the stocks off of flareguns and putting them on their revolvers to make these handy SBR's, but that one stock with the date stamped into the tang of the D-bracket is a feature I've not yet seen on any flaregun to date
vC3zIGc.jpga-webley-mark-vi-service-revolver-with-shoulder-stock-attachment-trench-BRG62Y.jpgOgBt0KG.jpg


Sent you a PM about the eye pieces :)
 
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John Hensley

New Hunter
I have been given my grandfathers military box and have a webley n scott 1918 flare gun and canisters in nice shape with holster.

I am interested in value and selling to serious collector




This is a really interesting thread, has any one had any more experience with a real webley since? Any new owners? Id like to pursue one but feel a little bad about essentially destroying a piece of history. Love to have the weight of a real gun though.
 

John Hensley

New Hunter
I think I have an original webley n scott flare gun 1918 with canisters and also in matching holster just given to me in grandfathers footbox...documented decorated pilot
Any interested?

Johndavidhensley@yahoo.com




Thanks for sharing.

My Federal labs no. 1 mk. 1 is serial number 26559. One of the very last ones made.

As far as I know, I'm still the only RPF/TDH member that has a no. 1 mk. 1 with the original sling.

I bought mine out of a pawn shop 14 years ago. They can turn up just about anywhere.
 

Viper

Hunter
Funkyred these actually originated over in the UK. Also because they are over 100 years old, they should be considered relics at this point. Not sure how the UK could classify these as a gun, it is technically a signal device (flare launcher). I mean sure it could be used to launch tear gas...
Worth looking into! You may be surprised what you find!
 

intwenothor

Active Hunter
Looks like I will never be able to own an original unfortunately in the uk because of our gun laws.
Funkyred these actually originated over in the UK. Also because they are over 100 years old, they should be considered relics at this point. Not sure how the UK could classify these as a gun, it is technically a signal device (flare launcher). I mean sure it could be used to launch tear gas...
Worth looking into! You may be surprised what you find!
Elliott, let me save you the time; whilst Viper is correct regarding the age this type of weapon is specifically referred to as not falling within the exemptions. You could import it but it would have to go to a proving house to be deactivated. I'm pretty sure Danzofett can advise you of what is required.
 

DanzoFett

Active Hunter
^^^^^Yup dude as Andy said,if you know someone who is a legal gun dealer in the uk you could have it shipped to them and then they would have it shipped to proof house...luckily my father law is a hunting man so did it through his friends dealership.....
 
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