balaclava/cowl question/mystery


Ord Mantell

Hunter
I know this has been discussed before, just recently in fact, but I lost track of the thread. I'm going to bring it up again, just because I've been looking closely at this and I'm not sure yet what is going on. My apologies if this has been definitively answered elsewhere already. I have a funny feeling RafalFett has probably put this to bed multiple times. Again, my apologies.

We're all familiar with this pic:

balaclava.jpg


the question is, are these two different versions? What's confusing is that it's presented in the same series of pictures, and would seem to be the same piece just turned to the side, and either the model stepped into frame or left the frame, depending on which picture was taken first. However, that doesn't add up. For one, the color looks much lighter on the one to the right. But more compellingly, the chin straps are attached to opposite sides in each picture. The one on the left has the strap attached to the right side of the cowl, where the one on the right has the strap attached to the left side.

Screen Shot 2021-02-07 at 11.11.58 AM.png


The only way these two pics depict the exact same piece is if the neck strap has velcro attachments on both ends, which seems highly unlikely, or the pic on the left is a flipped mirror image, which also seems unlikely for a number of reasons. What further confuses this is the other photo that shows the model wearing what appears to be the left-side version, but not the right-side version:
Screen Shot 2021-02-07 at 12.04.31 PM.png


So we know the model was present and suited up for the left-side photo even though he was not in the background like the right-side photo. It is almost certainly the same photo shoot, for both shots then. So then, they had the two versions of the head covering in the same shoot..

1) but they only modeled the one and not the other?

2) Or they did model the second version, but we just don't have that picture?

3) Is it largely agreed that these are two different versions above?

4) If 3 is yes, which of the two was used for ESB?

5) Both versions have the section/flap that attaches to the helmet interior. Since they did not use that part during filming, do we know if this was physically removed from the piece or was it simply tucked away into the neck?
 

Funkyred

Active Hunter
Preferred Vendor
I think there definitely 2 different hoods , the difference in colour I believe is down to the dying of the super trooper flight suit and flak vest blue for the pre pro 2. The hood most probably would have been dyed at the same time .
 

Ord Mantell

Hunter
FYI was informed earlier by Clothears that they’re currently in the prototype stage for the hood and cowl.
I know. That's actually why I'm asking, in fact. I've seen it. It appears to be based more on the picture on the left. I'm concerned that ESB was the one on the right, or at least more similar to the one on the right. I've been giving them notes on how to increase accuracy for ESB on the soft parts as they work on my stuff, so anything we share here could end up in their final product. The more accurate the better.
 
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There’s photos of Don Bies and Mark Austin wearing what looks similar to the lighter coloured one too. That’s good for SE peeps.

In several ESB and ROTJ photos you can seen there’s definitely no cowl. In regards to the hood, I’ve not seen any conclusive evidence it was worn in either ESB or ROTJ.
 

RafalFett

Well-Known Hunter
I had a discussion a while ago regarding this issue (I think in private message) and it is possible that the lighter balaclava might be the Supertrooper one, or one of the clean prototype, but in lack of reference, who knows... It seems that the Pre-Pro #2 and Pre-Pro #3 had one of the variants (the balaclava can be seen in the MoM, DaG and SWtE exhibits), but I don't see it on the ESB suit.
PP2 04b.jpg


Boba-Fett-Costume-Third-Prototype-06.jpg


Boba-Fett-Costume-Empire-Strikes-Back-Interrogation-1.jpg
 
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Jango Fett Jr

Well-Known Hunter
I wasn’t convinced that the hood was worn in ESB because of the photo of JB helmetless. I can’t imagine him removing the hood between takes and then tucking it back in.
E1D45B00-14CD-4144-8DE4-6DBBA763FF81.jpeg


but of course that doesn’t mean it wasn’t worn during some scenes. that third photo that you posted RafalFett , is that a hood above the neck seal?

EDACAC59-3F7C-4B00-8522-731359A76ED3.jpeg


and is this a hood?

1F7E9C33-1477-4F60-85A0-58BE42F888D1.jpeg

and is this the chin strap for the hood, or the black chin cup strap?

9FE0F992-F1DB-4424-92B0-2C2325831063.jpeg
D0B52192-E93E-40DE-900F-B0F2F824517A.jpeg
 
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Jango Fett Jr

Well-Known Hunter
Makes total sense. I got confused by the different terms hood/cowl/balaclava and the photo of JB without anything but a neck seal, but it’s pretty clear there’s a hood above the neck seal.
 

Ord Mantell

Hunter
Jeremy might have not worn it in every scene, but definitely the head covering was worn in several. As to the pic in the dining hall with it off... on film shoots, there is often huge swaths of time between takes or during setups. I can totally see a scenario where he took off the hood for comfort while they sat and waited an hour for the lighting/camera crews to work on a new setup.

Clearly the cowl was not used. I have my doubts it was removed, however. I've not seen any evidence, but to remove it would be fairly invasive to the construction of the piece. I think it wuold've been easier just to tuck it down into the neck out of the way. But then again, maybe it wasn't so hard to just take some scissors to it and lop it off. Wish we had some evidence. I think for the Clothears piece, they should include it. That way, if you want, you can shear if off with scissors if you want, just like they would've had to do if they removed it... or just tuck it in the neck, the other option.

To solve the problem of which side the chin strap should be attached, Alison floated the idea of attaching both ends with velcro so its basically interchangeable, but I was going to say no to that. I think it should be sewn to one side or the other. My preference is for the left side, with lighter color fabric, as the fabric of the hood evidenced from the ESB shots is lighter fabric as opposed the version with the darker fabric.
 

Ord Mantell

Hunter
Screen Shot 2021-02-08 at 11.24.44 AM.png


The color of the hood is different from the neck seal, but it does seem to have an affinity in value with the neck seal, meaning it's a lighter color similar to the lightness of the neck. It's not the darker version I don't think, and the Clothears is currently much darker than this.

Screen Shot 2021-02-08 at 11.40.04 AM.png
 
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Ord Mantell

Hunter
Maybe it was too hot in the helmet with the cowl so they had to open it.
undoubtedly. also it probably fogged up the lens horribly. Anyone in the world with glasses already knows by now what happens when you put on a face mask.

And practically speaking, it was probably there to safe-guard against camera angles that would reveal the actor's face, which I think everyone realized on the set, was simply overkill.
 

RafalFett

Well-Known Hunter
Regarding the balaclava and the cowl, I don't think it was just simply cut off with a scissor. During the production there was a costume department where the balaclava could have been easily modified (cut, sewn and tailored).
 

Ord Mantell

Hunter
The MOM exhibit appears to have the variant with the darker fabric and the chin strap sewn to the right side. You can see the cowl is still there, tucked into the neck so that only the velcroed edge sits atop under the chin strap. There is a wad of extra fabric bulging out on the left side (frame right). So seems like the cowl was left on, at least the one used for ROTJ and ANH SE, which also appear to be the same color as the MOM.

full.jpg


Screen Shot 2021-02-07 at 12.04.31 PM.png
 
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