terminal fettler
Active Hunter
Apologies for the awful quality, this was a similarity that stood out between the Banzai/ESB Hero but i'm not seeing this on the stunts? its the chips and slight angle change as the lower L/H cheek meets the L/H ear...
Fett from 1986
- Thread starter Banzai88
- Start date
Keep this in mind. The way the helmets are generally cast is with the helmet upside down, so the bottom edge is most likely to be raw and sanded... You see differences on the bottom edges with every helmet. I wouldn't put a lot of consideration into the fact that the bottom edges don't line up.
terminal fettler
Active Hunter
I disagree with you there sir!...
Its a logical step that the original was sat on a 'skirt' or collar prior to molding which would result in less clean up work from the mold...The feature i pointed out would be similar between helmets from the same mold but the detail may disappear due to over finishing...
Its a logical step that the original was sat on a 'skirt' or collar prior to molding which would result in less clean up work from the mold...The feature i pointed out would be similar between helmets from the same mold but the detail may disappear due to over finishing...
Tyler Durden
Well-Known Hunter
That same angle is on the PP2/MF plug.
I disagree with you there sir!...
Not sure where we are disagreeing there... As you said and I thought I said, the detail of the bottom can change due to finishing, even if a skirt is involved... unless I am not understanding the detail you are pointing to.
terminal fettler
Active Hunter
Now you're just confusing me?What i mean is the bottom edge is part of the mold and faithfull to the original. It would n't take much to remove this detail from over zelous finishing, but it's presence can only mean a match in origin, i think?
Tyler Durden
Well-Known Hunter
While a few marks on the stripe area match up well, none of the major marks below it match up at all. The left cheek scratch is different. The "crack" on the right cheek is missing (clear on the stunt and ESB). And I haven't found a single marking "below the brow" that matches up.
Tyler,
I just want to absolutely refuse to believe that this helmet is some sort of amalgam but I am with you and agree that at this point I can't find anything below the brow that matches either the ESB or the stunts although as I think we have pretty clearly demonstrated, the dome appears to be a Casting (direct or indirect) of the ESB hero. The two stunts in the archive match each other and match the post-filimg ESB in the cheek areas, but the Banzai matches neither... nor have I been able to match it to any other helmet at this point. I still stand by the simplest explanation that this helmet is a casting of the ESB, liek the stunts, but I can't account for the differences in the lower half.
I just want to absolutely refuse to believe that this helmet is some sort of amalgam but I am with you and agree that at this point I can't find anything below the brow that matches either the ESB or the stunts although as I think we have pretty clearly demonstrated, the dome appears to be a Casting (direct or indirect) of the ESB hero. The two stunts in the archive match each other and match the post-filimg ESB in the cheek areas, but the Banzai matches neither... nor have I been able to match it to any other helmet at this point. I still stand by the simplest explanation that this helmet is a casting of the ESB, liek the stunts, but I can't account for the differences in the lower half.
Tyler Durden
Well-Known Hunter
Let's see, where is the bang head on wall emoticon...
SingleSeat
Active Hunter
Not to get too far off topic, but on what basis was the RF ear hole drilled? ....Evidence in the cast to indicate a location?
terminal fettler
Active Hunter
On the ESB hero R/H lower cheek/upper junction there is a slight over/under masking lap. There is a crisp line that disappears at approx the same spot as on Banzai's helmet...
SingleSeat
Active Hunter
I'm not following...what do you mean? Where do I look and what do I look for?
*edit. If you mean the irregularity between the trailing edge of green cheek as it meets the "black," it appears that stunt #1 has the same irregularity.
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GCNgamer128
Sr Hunter
I don't see what you're trying to point out either TF.
terminal fettler
Active Hunter
Thats it...
never ending fett
Active Hunter
just a thought here and I could be WAAAY off, but something to throw into the mix: It could be wrong, but still lead one of you guys into a new train of thought that could lead to something right.
Here goes: follow me and let me know if I'm making any sense at all
The Banzain (or the 3rd stunt the Banzain was cast from) was cast from the ESB hero before what we now call stunt 1 and stunt 2. Now here's where the fun comes in: Additional damage was done to the ESB hero through mishandling or caused in the casting process of making the Banzai or making other unknown casts. Now with this added damage the ESB hero was cast again to make Stunt 1 and stunt 2. which accounts for the similarity to the ESB hero above the brow and differences below the brow.
or 
?Spideyfett
Well-Known Hunter
I see what you mean TF...great Eye..
and I'm getting all girly like with all the new comparisons...especially the killstripe thing..
One question I have is, why would the Killstripes on Banzi's be so prominant and defined like the hero....??? if his was taken from a stunt, then wouldn't the stunts "Paint" marks over power what was pulled from the hero??...to me, Banzi's helmet would have a better chance of having paint markings of the repainted stunt, and less of the hero's paint markings.....just thought I'd throw that out there.
BTW, this is all cool Stuff.
You are definitely thinking there and it certainly is no crazier than some of the stuff Tyler and I have batted around today. However, the dome on Banzai's clearly shows details that weren't present until after filming, however, on the lower section of the helmet, there are details that aren't present that were there DURING filming. I think that kinda takes out this possibility.
just a thought here and I could be WAAAY off, but something to throw into the mix: It could be wrong, but still lead one of you guys into a new train of thought that could lead to something right.
Here goes: follow me and let me know if I'm making any sense at all
The Banzain (or the 3rd stunt the Banzain was cast from) was cast from the ESB hero before what we now call stunt 1 and stunt 2. Now here's where the fun comes in: Additional damage was done to the ESB hero through mishandling or caused in the casting process of making the Banzai or making other unknown casts. Now with this added damage the ESB hero was cast again to make Stunt 1 and stunt 2. which accounts for the similarity to the ESB hero above the brow and differences below the brow.
One question I have is, why would the Killstripes on Banzi's be so prominant and defined like the hero....??? if his was taken from a stunt, then wouldn't the stunts "Paint" marks over power what was pulled from the hero??...to me, Banzi's helmet would have a better chance of having paint markings of the repainted stunt, and less of the hero's paint markings.....just thought I'd throw that out there.
I see where you are going with this and you might not be too far off. It is possible that you are seeing a direct casting from the ESB helmet. However, it appears the stunts were completely topically painted and their paint detail might not show up as easily if one were recast. Another possibility is, if you believe their might be a third stunt, perhaps it was never painted at all, and simply later recast to make the Banzai. Just a lot of unknowns and a lot of possibilities. I am still stuck on why the dome is clearly ESB derived but seemingly all of the markings on the lower section are missing.
never ending fett
Active Hunter
It took me a couple of times reading that to work out what you were saying.
So there's details there on the dome from damage from after filming
but.......
there's details missing below the dome that were there during filming
confusedconfusedthat just doesn't make sense....how, (without time displacement
) could that have happened?
