"Customs" - Cannon vs. Imagination

[NovallTalon]

Well I was kind of thinking that the "Haves" could educate and help out the "Have Nots." TDH has been known to come up with a 'Pay it Forward' of sorts, sending out free armor pieces on good faith that the recipient would reciprocate and send something that they aren't using forward to someone else who needs it.

I was thinking more along the lines of a dedicated page, maybe on each person's profile, with a radio-button set of 1-10 or 1-5 options, where, should the user choose to submit their costume for review, the general population of the board could rate their work. Purely voluntary, but beneficial in the sense that one could put their work up to be rated without everyone having to shuffle through pages and pages of text to actually see the pictures and/or rating.

I dunno. It was just a thought. I wanna see everyone with their own uniquely awesome armor, as I really enjoy seeing costumes evolve.

I've posted your idea with a slight change (We would use the voting function built into our forum) to our CVDC at Mercs to see what they think about doing something like this. Basically it would be the costume owner posting a poll with 1-5 being the voting criteria. 1 being awful and 5 being awesome. However, nobody could vote and not list what they think may need improvement to the costume, and we would have to police voting numbers for that to work correctly also. The poster could put in a description on what they are going for as far as look for the costume, maybe a short description etc.

Is that what your basically talking about Jaster TK-1580?

 

[The Clayster]

I personally don't think that could ever work, beacuse even if the person puts 1 or 2 for the review, it still means your costume sucks, no matter how nice you put the 1 or 2.:facepalm

And it isn't like you could do something being an admin to modify the person's post to say 3 or 4, that would be unfair to the poster.

I've posted your idea with a slight change (We would use the voting function built into our forum) to our CVDC at Mercs to see what they think about doing something like this. Basically it would be the costume owner posting a poll with 1-5 being the voting criteria. 1 being awful and 5 being awesome. However, nobody could vote and not list what they think may need improvement to the costume, and we would would have to police voting numbers for that to work correctly also. The poster could put in a description on what they are going for as far as look for the costume, maybe a short description etc.

Is that what your basically talking about Jaster TK-1580?

 

[Jango72]

Although my current project is not a custom, the same effort is going into my scratch made Jango as any custom builder puts into his suit. I'm all for customs, and I can understand why the 501st dosen't allow them. ( I don't necessarily agree, but I do understand ) My main beef with customs, is that when planning and constructing them, you put your best effort into making every part look like it fits into the Star Wars universe. After putting over two plus years of work into designing and building an awesome custom suit, to ruin it by trooping around with an M-16, just seems a shame to me when some additional effort could've gone into making that M-16 look more Star Wars-ish.

 

[NovallTalon]

Also, on any mando forum, if you post progress, someone seems to come along and almost copies your replica/prop, of your own creation. Take something simple as a kama, and put it on a mando, then once one person sees it, he does it, then another, then another. I am not saying that anyone here or at LFL invented a combat skirt, but once someone does somethign a tad out of the ordinary on a costume, some people tend to copy it.

I kinda have a problem with that sort of thing, because it then makes your costume look like the rest, and as a custom, I try to set myself apart from the others by doing things of that sort, but I now see that my ideas (while they weren't that original) on my costume have been done after me, and a few times before me. Which is prior to always happen no matter what.

Whats that old saying..."Mimicry is the highest form of flattery?" or something like that. People are going copy things they like, thats just human nature :cheers

 

[The Clayster]

Although my current project is not a custom, the same effort is going into my scratch made Jango as any custom builder puts into his suit. I'm all for customs, and I can understand why the 501st dosen't allow them. ( I don't necessarily agree, but I do understand ) My main beef with customs, is that when planning and constructing them, you put your best effort into making every part look like it fits into the Star Wars universe. After putting over two plus years of work into designing and building an awesome custom suit, to ruin it by trooping around with an M-16, just seems a shame to me when some additional effort could've gone into making that M-16 look more Star Wars-ish.

I agree with your comments, except the ones about The 501st. They used to accept custom mandos until 2005.

I forget the reason why, but I do know why, and I can't explain the reasoning without taking a while to do so.

But if The 501st did accept custom mandalorians, as said earlier, then A bunch of low quality costumes would want to join, and no doubt some would get accepted into the Club, it is bound to happen. They don't want that. Sith Lords go through Spanos, BH's go through...somewhere, and things of that sort. It is hard to find a low quality SL in The Legion, because Spanos is in charge of that, and he does a graet job of it.

 

[The Clayster]

Whats that old saying..."Mimicry is the highest form of flattery?" or something like that. People are going copy things they like, thats just human nature :cheers

And it is also the easiest way to make your costume look 'the Norm"
And if the person does it better than you (not literally you, but ya know) then your costume looks like a failed attempt, while they really copied you.

 

[NovallTalon]

Thats true, but again your not going to stop people from doing things like that. It's impossible to try. Just like people with similar color schemes. I can understand where your coming from though, and yes it may be a little irritating. Thats something I usually let roll off because I can't control how they make their costume.

 

[The Clayster]

Thats true, but again your not going to stop people from doing things like that. It's impossible to try. Just like people with similar color schemes. I can understand where your coming from though, and yes it may be a little irritating. Thats something I usually let roll off because I can't control how they make their costume.

Oh no, I know I can't stop them, but if it is clearly copied or "inspired" then it irritates me in some cases.

 

[commander 13]

Oh no, I know I can't stop them, but if it is clearly copied or "inspired" then it irritates me in some cases.

Unfortunately, there will always be those that will copy and never think twice about giving credit to the originator of the idea/concept/design. It's the nature of most things, including costuming/costume design and character design. In most cases, your best bet is to put down your progress pics once your custom is done, that way there's no way your ideas are copied by others that have a faster turnaround time of costume-building.

There are some "artists" out there that thrive on "borrowing" and taking "inspiration" from other less known artists and never ever bother mentioning where they got the idea, let alone give the person they got the idea from any credit whatsoever. Unfortunately, that's how it is, there are some very unscrupulous people, and the worst part is, it's still considered theft, albeit much more difficult to prove since it's theft of intellectual property so to speak and not something "concrete" like a stereo system or whatnot.

I've been guilty of doing fan art/fan fiction but I always always give credit to where credit is due and never claim those specific designs/characters as my own. Not everyone is the same. For future reference, if you intend to make another custom/improve your current custom, only post pics of your project when it is already actually done or at least almost to the point where it is done. It will not stop people from copying but at least you've established that you were the origin of the idea, or at least brought the idea to light. The world is full of unoriginal hacks, it's just unfortunate that many of them never give credit to those they pilfer their ideas from.

Don't be discouraged by your custom ending up being with the "norm" but instead take it as a challenge to be even more "original" and come up with ideas that will set your custom mando apart from the pile. You'll find that your custom will "evolve" throughout it's design stage and the actual worn costume, similar to the evolution from clone trooper to storm trooper, and somewhere in between you'll find a look that you'll be happy with, regardless if other people copy/get inspiration from it.

I know it can be frustrating but plan ahead and "reveal" your custom only when you're good and ready.

 

[Dent ghost 8]

Ok, Im chiming in

My opinion is....Who cares?

So what if your costume is canon or non-canon. Boba, Jango or whoever...it doesnt matter.

The important thing to remember about costuming is this...its a hobby. We are all here bc we like to design and make our own costumes. It doesnt matter if its canon or not, each costume we make is an individual work or art. Anyone who slags anothers work simply because of its validity in the SW universe is a biggot.

Remember, we may all have different tastes and preferences, but we have one thing in common; we all love Mandalorian costumes. Anything else is detail.

So canons and customs unite. There should be no enemies here. Only friends with a common interest.

Salude!
:cheers:cheers

 

[NovallTalon]

Ok, Im chiming in

My opinion is....Who cares?

So what if your costume is canon or non-canon. Boba, Jango or whoever...it doesnt matter.

The important thing to remember about costuming is this...its a hobby. We are all here bc we like to design and make our own costumes. It doesnt matter if its canon or not, each costume we make is an individual work or art. Anyone who slags anothers work simply because of its validity in the SW universe is a biggot.

Remember, we may all have different tastes and preferences, but we have one thing in common; we all love Mandalorian costumes. Anything else is detail.

So canons and customs unite. There should be no enemies here. Only friends with a common interest.

Salude!
:cheers:cheers

Best reply to this entire thread =D :love

 

[setra]

The debate over customs and "canons" in my opinion is pointless. Its like trying to argue with someone how chocolate is better then vanilla ice cream, no one can ever win or lose, so why argue? The way I think of customs is that its a persons interpritation of a character in the SW universe. Its somethin people have been doing since stories were first told and written. For instance, in the epic of Beowulf, you read the character of Grendal as a ferocious monster that is huge, hairy, and has tremedous claws. Thiis is where peoples interpritation come in. Some might percive this monster has a Bear like creature, or a huminoid warewolf. Its all about how someones sees things, and they do it all the time in movies. Everyone's seen all concept art, and what first thoughts and looks were before the final film came out.

So what Im tryin to say, is that customs are everywhere if you think about it. Also, its a art. Creating a character, and designing it takes as much effort as it does for famous characters most commonly seen. So no one is right to say thst customs are wrong or that they are inaccurate. Keep making art and dont worry about negativity from people who disapprove of "customs." Just keep doing what your doing.

-tubachris
(The world is full of characters, the SW universe is much wider, whos to say that there are only a set number of people there?)

i totally agree with chris here...the different types of custom charecters (cannon/non-cannon) are down to peoples own like and dislikes...there should never be a set of guidlines in place because a custom mando isan extention of the creators imagination...whether they want it cannon or not is up to them...not up to some pre aranged person to tell people how to think...i quote 300

"freedom isnt free at all"

think about that...custom is by deffinition freedom to create a costume that is in all ways an extension of your imagination...to put guidlines on it is to take away that freedom


thats all i wanted to say

 

[Ghostsoldier]

Well, here's my shekel's worth...I agree with about most everything written by most everyone above, but this is a subject that me and my oldest son go around and around about all the time. My argument is that no matter what costume you make, it has to have an identifiable SW element to it, or you might as well put on a Klingon uniform and call yourself Boba's third cousin twice removed...if the general public can't finger you for what they think you are from their exposure to canon materials, whether Boba or Jango (or Stormtrooper...they call me one of those all the time), then you have to ask: am I really doing this right? Is this really SW costuming? Let's face it...99-percent of folks on here do it to be seen and recognized, if not by the public, at least by appreciative peers. You want people to identify you; to know who you're supposed to be. But I feel you must have a few recognizable, key elements to be successful (the "look and feel" Shock was talking about earlier), and to be specifically labeled a Mandalorian: the helmet with T-shaped visor, the dished mandibles, the chest armor (whether it be day-glo green or magenta). If you build on those, then more power to ye.

But paramount above all, no matter what you wear, we should all have acceptance for each others visions and interpretations of those key elements. Nothing kills a hobby faster than finger-pointing, hostile criticism and the nah-nah-boo-boo $__t that goes on in associations like this all the time (the mods do a great job in keeping that to a minimum here). If I hear or see too much of that bull, I personally am outta here...I'm grown up now (sorta), and I left that behavior on the playground a long time ago. If you can't say something nice....

Well...that's enough of my diatribe....for now...

Rob

 

[BigJon]

amen

 

[Kashyyyk4ABY]

Well, I once again have to agree with Clayster in that if you're going to put yourself on the line and apply for a group such as the 501st..then it would seem that the group should have guidelines. Just because the group exists doesn't mean that they have to let just anybody in. If you're costume is below-par than I think its best if you are not allowed to troop until its improved upon. Personally, if I wasn't aware of my costume's "cheapness" than I would be pretty thankful to be told that maybe I should put a little more work into it.

Thats just my two cents.

 

[commander 13]

Well, I once again have to agree with Clayster in that if you're going to put yourself on the line and apply for a group such as the 501st..then it would seem that the group should have guidelines. Just because the group exists doesn't mean that they have to let just anybody in. If you're costume is below-par than I think its best if you are not allowed to troop until its improved upon. Personally, if I wasn't aware of my costume's "cheapness" than I would be pretty thankful to be told that maybe I should put a little more work into it.

Agreed, but the problem is relative more to the custom factor. For the 501st there is some form of standard because the organization follows specific guidelines with regards to the different costumes. Troopers have to have a specific look/quality to their armor.

For customs it's a bit more complicated in the sense that since it's a custom, anyone can literrally make anything, so it's difficult to set guidelines that everyone "must" follow. You can't say the custom has to have this or that, or none of this or that. Stormtroopers are all the "same" so there's a baseline that can be followed while custom mandos can be helmetless, sleeveless, barechested (though never seen one yet) with gauntlets, without gauntlets etc.... the variety is so vast that you cannot have a specific baseline to follow. You can't even use the T-visored helmet as a baseline since there are canon images of mandos with double-visors.

While we can all "control" each other for quality, quality is also subjective, and some costumers will simply say, "well my stuff is custom it's supposed to look like that."

Therein lies the problem, "custom" implies freedom and unless there is some sort of organization similar to the 501st that will "rally" all mandos together, quality and looks will always be a free-for-all. You have to admit, the 501st standards are high and does limit who can join based on those standards, whereas there are no specific standards for customs because there is no specific "official" organization customs can join.

And even if a custom organization were to be formed, there is no guarantee that anyone would actually want to join, considering that the new standards the organization would require might be too stringent for some. Most people that made a custom, created it specifically so they would not have any limitations to what their costume would look like, otherwise they would have made a Jango or a Boba and joined the 501st.

Dilemma on both ends, start an organization that no one would join? Lower your standards so people can/would join? An organization for what reason, to follow in the stead of the 501st? Unless someone steps up to the plate and decides to set something up and follows the same strict standards as the 501st with regards to QUALITY and not the overall LOOK of the custom. Problem is, quality for a custom most often is related to the overall look, so again, another dilemma.

If someone has a solution, please do come forward, otherwise we just have to accept that there will always be discrepancies in terms of custom quality.

 

[NovallTalon]

Well, were working toward having the organization already with Mercs. What we need more then anything is people with the same idea and mindset to hop on board and help us to mature as an organization specifically for customs. Like I've stated before, the only way your going to inspire someone to change is to surround them with something they want to change in to.

I've seen some great looking customs turned down by clubs because they didn't hold up to their visual standards and not quality. As you stated commander-13 that turns alot of people away because it destroys the reason your a custom mando in the first place.

It's a very very tough balance to achieve honestly, and I'm hoping that we are working our way there.

 

[Kashyyyk4ABY]

Ahh..point taken. Hmph. This is a tough situation. Unless the group does what the 501st does, and require photos to get in. But then again, that may turn people away or cause them to be hesitant to joining. I guess I really can't think of a member-friendly way to solve this problem...:facepalm

 

[Jaster TK1580]

I guess in the end, you have to ask yourself "Do I want my group to be known for top quality costumes, or do I want it to be known for its all-inclusive nature in letting everyone in?" It seems like there's no midpoint. You can't have standards, as that limits peoples' creativity. You can't just let in everyone, as it was stated earlier, because you could just "put on a Klingon uniform and call yourself Boba's third cousin twice removed." Standards and goals are what set apart a bunch of people milling about from a true organization.

You can't possibly hope to make everyone happy all of the time.The only solution I can think of is for the group to pick a side and stick with it. Make no exceptions once you've chosen a side.

Vode an.

 

[NovallTalon]

Ahh..point taken. Hmph. This is a tough situation. Unless the group does what the 501st does, and require photos to get in. But then again, that may turn people away or cause them to be hesitant to joining. I guess I really can't think of a member-friendly way to solve this problem...:facepalm

We do require a full body pic in armor that matches one of our 3 basic templates as well as a good quality (we don't demand movie quality) armor. We have been a tad lax on the quality of some costumes, because again you have the issue of what is quality.

I guess in the end, you have to ask yourself "Do I want my group to be known for top quality costumes, or do I want it to be known for its all-inclusive nature in letting everyone in?" It seems like there's no midpoint. You can't have standards, as that limits peoples' creativity. You can't just let in everyone, as it was stated earlier, because you could just "put on a Klingon uniform and call yourself Boba's third cousin twice removed." Standards and goals are what set apart a bunch of people milling about from a true organization.

You can't possibly hope to make everyone happy all of the time.The only solution I can think of is for the group to pick a side and stick with it. Make no exceptions once you've chosen a side.

Vode an.

Oh yes, I definitely have to agree with that. Thats something early on that we said we would not let happen in the club. We have/had been discussing an out of armor uniform or clothing that we could wear at con tables, and some people brought up the question of weather or not they could join in the out of armor clothing. That was a resounding no from myself and the CVDC as we knew and still know that it leads to exactly what your talking about. You have to have identifiable Mandalorian armor, lol we are definitely not going down the road of bathrobe jedi.