WIP: Clone Trooper Armor Templates.

I think it is unfortunate that you have such a negative view of TDH and I guess everyone's experience varies, but I would argue here, you are seeing at least one old-timer, in agreement with what you are saying in principle. I can't apply it directly to situation, only because right now it is a he said - she said issue, where one is saying this is a recreation and the other is saying this is a rework of an existing creation. I agree that in this hobby (not just this board) there is a general turning a blind eye to underhandedness when someone is making something others wants. However, I will be the first to say that if this is as you say, a rework of an existing work, and permission can't be attained, it should be abandoned. I am not the law, but there is an opinion that has nothing to do with post count or me wanting something.

While you are making good points, some of the snide comments and jabs aren't helping your argument...

I don't have a negative view of TDH. It is the first forum I started with and I love it. I don't like the fact that when 2 adults have a conversation everybody that gets involved has something to say about a technical conversation that always end in a "I want it for cheaper, or free" who cares how it came to life.

I understand that everybody is entitled to their opinions in open forum but this is not a matter of opinion. this is a matter of fact. the model he used is not his, he lays claim to it. Led people to believe it was his and in fact it was not. It's not like I asked him to change the color of the model because I didn't like it. I wasn't even aggressive with my first post. I simply was offering some advice on handling a touchy issue with people that aren't so kind when it comes to this kind of thing.

Nyx Mandalore under your rational all comments should be made in PM form so people do not have to be exposed to reality as long as the dirty work is done behind closed doors the forum will benifit from the work of one.This model is in fact (At this point) stolen. And if you don't care and I'm sure others don't then why get involved.

Art however does seam to care about the bottom of this therefore his opinion is relevant and pertinent to the conversation.

I can in fact show his wireframe picture overlaid the original model and it does match line for line curve for curve vertex for vertex. I have not done this because I was giving Skip the opportunity to contact the original modeler and let him know what was up (As stated in my first post). I overlaid the model before I even posted the first post so I was sure my facts were correct. And again I wasn't aggressive at all to begin with.It seams the problem with not reading the whole post is that we end up in this situation where the original goal is lost and it then (only after a slew of irrelevant posts) turns into an obnoxious attack of one party or a group. Seams this has happened quite a few times in the last couple months again always ending in a ban or a locked topic. This is not my goal. I would like Skip to continue what he is doing. I only wanted him to know that, Before it was to late, he should contact the origional artist. I make models to use as ref for scaling and the likes all the time.
Some of you have received models from me that i have made or received. I always ask before I use a ref pic or measure something from a hard copy of someones work. if they say no then I find a different ref. If they say yes then I post a thanks to that person when the project is complete. Sometimes depending on there involvement I send a finished part to them so they can see there object in reality. But that's just what I do. I don't expect people to do the same in that area. It is a matter of personal respect.
What I do take issue with is if someone claims work that is not theirs. Bottom line

I bet if someone grabbed Allen's(WOF) helmet templates and was selling them on e-bay there would be a big deal about it. even if the work was coming in the form a scaled templates not just a PDF. Heck there was even a topic about another forum linking to TDH pages to give them out.
I used his tempates to make my daughters Fett stuff and refuse to sell even the original because of it.

And I will tell you another thing. If I offer something for free and someone make $$$ off of it you can bet the next time I send it out(if there is a next time) its gonna cost. Just like what happened to Skip when his stuff popped up on e-bay. Now he charges.
You want frees stuff. I can cast any FP part or Fang helmet and mail them free of charge, doesn't make it OK just makes it free. That was sarcasm I have no intentions of recasting anyone's stuff. don't flood my inbox

enough said, I feel it has been beaten to a pulp If anyone wants to see the overlay I will post it. If noone cares then go back to sleep and dont lend another thought to where the free stuff comes from.
 

Nyx Mandalore

Jr Hunter
Nyx Mandalore under your rational all comments should be made in PM form so people do not have to be exposed to reality as long as the dirty work is done behind closed doors the forum will benifit from the work of one.This model is in fact (At this point) stolen. And if you don't care and I'm sure others don't then why get involved.

I was not at all stating that I condoned the theft of someone else's work. I was saying I don't care about the model at all at the moment because I am too distracted with yet another flame-fest in the forums. What I was saying is that I am tired of juvenile name-calling and disputes in the public forum. I would prefer that you take your contentions with him up in private, and if he is not receptive or you feel he is still being unethical, that you then bring them up to us all in a calm, mature manner.

We should all be warned and aware of theft. We should not all have to watch you and he try to exchange witty barbs and argue in a forum that is intended to be constructive and friendly.

And that, sir, I do care about.
 
I don't care who made the model, I just want to try and build it...
Guess that about sums it up

"I would prefer that you take your contentions with him up in private"

And I would prefer not to. It is not you to decied how this was handled. you may not like the way I handled it and I don't like paying taxes. Iguess we will both sleep well at night knowing we had such an impact on the others lives.
I don't believe anyone has called anyone a name or has said anything to the nature until phrases like juvenile and flame and bickering which are words designed to strike an emotional reaction in a logical discussion. no better than flaming someone about misspelling a word when you cant get one up. this was a technical discussion until the likes of these types of comments. adding emotion to fact just screws things up, as you have just seen
 
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corby

Active Hunter
InBeforeTheLock-1.gif


:D
 

Codika

Hunter
ok so the argument needs to stop,nobody cares and if it REALLY bothers you that friggin much zero why dont you send your friend an email with the link and let him talk for himself bout wether he cares or not,honestly i dont think its really all that important seeing as how your basically saying skip is guilty of stealing an idea when ALL clone and most mando armors are the idealogical property of whomever holds the copyrights to them and yes we may give them credit but how many of us have asked for permiision from their creator to use there ideas and designs? thats all i got to say for it as of now.

so lets end the argument,flame war,whatever you want to call it and move on to what we all really are hear for,the kick shebs awsomeness of SW and probmaking!
 

CGClone

Active Hunter
I understand the underlying argument, but the argument should beone of that model isnt anywhere near accurate, so what is trying to be accomplished?
 

Skupilkinson

Active Hunter
It's slightly different than that Cod'ika. Basicly, he's claiming I stole a 3D model and used directly for the templates I'm trying to create.

He's on the right track as I've already said, I did use a 3D model that was sent to me by someone via email. That person said if I remember rightly that the original creator wanted to remain anonomous. I was foolish enough to ask no more questions.

However, I promise you all that every original face(you see them as squares in the picture) was deleted as I modeled new ones. I quess I was a little lazy during the modelling phase as I did follow alot of the original wireframe. Hence the striking similarity between the two models. However, I did not steal anyones work in the way he's describing. That's taking it too far. Also, I most certainly do NOT lay claim to the original model, only to the work I did to make my own.

If Zero wants to post the picture of his overlay then he can. It will indeed show similarities between the two models. I've never denied that or said that mine is totally different. Only that I used Emilios 3D model to base my own off of. It's something that I'll never do again as this thread has become a lesson to me. When you use someone else' work in the way I have it stops you from being the sole creator, it stops your own individual style from showing through.

Zero, if you want to PM me with private comments or even a contact address for Emilio then I'd appreciate it. It would be useless for us to continue this if it turned out that Emilio didn't even mind the way in which I've used his model. So I'd appreciate the opportunity to speak to him myself regarding this.

Also, now that I know who the original creator of the original 3D model is I'd gladly give them the credit they most certainly deserve. I'll edit the post in my blog later to acknowledge him.

You have to realise that without knowing who created the original model it would have been very difficult to give them credit. I thought I was doing right by admitting from the start that I used another 3D model to kickstart this project. I was not claiming the original work was mine now was I?? I think not.

I'm glad you know of what happened to my work last year too. Maybe you understand now that I would not knowingly rip off others work when it has happened to me in the past. I have told you that I have strong feelings about this practice. Also, that was why I chose to sell my work. Not to make money, but to try and limit how people obtained my files to begin with. My blog has grown since then and I do make some money from what I do through sales and commissions but it is not why I do it.

I'd like nothing more than to draw a line here and end this.
 
I understand the underlying argument, but the argument should beone of that model isnt anywhere near accurate, so what is trying to be accomplished?
Very good point also. Along those lines it wont fit a human anyway. I wanted to stay away from that point but since it was brought up the final product would not be acceptable for any of the standard set by the current clone groups
 
It's slightly different than that Cod'ika. Basicly, he's claiming I stole a 3D model and used directly for the templates I'm trying to create.

He's on the right track as I've already said, I did use a 3D model that was sent to me by someone via email. That person said if I remember rightly that the original creator wanted to remain anonomous. I was foolish enough to ask no more questions.

However, I promise you all that every original face(you see them as squares in the picture) was deleted as I modeled new ones. I quess I was a little lazy during the modelling phase as I did follow alot of the original wireframe. Hence the striking similarity between the two models. However, I did not steal anyones work in the way he's describing. That's taking it too far. Also, I most certainly do NOT lay claim to the original model, only to the work I did to make my own.

If Zero wants to post the picture of his overlay then he can. It will indeed show similarities between the two models. I've never denied that or said that mine is totally different. Only that I used Emilios 3D model to base my own off of. It's something that I'll never do again as this thread has become a lesson to me. When you use someone else' work in the way I have it stops you from being the sole creator, it stops your own individual style from showing through.

Zero, if you want to PM me with private comments or even a contact address for Emilio then I'd appreciate it. It would be useless for us to continue this if it turned out that Emilio didn't even mind the way in which I've used his model. So I'd appreciate the opportunity to speak to him myself regarding this.

Also, now that I know who the original creator of the original 3D model is I'd gladly give them the credit they most certainly deserve. I'll edit the post in my blog later to acknowledge him.

You have to realise that without knowing who created the original model it would have been very difficult to give them credit. I thought I was doing right by admitting from the start that I used another 3D model to kickstart this project. I was not claiming the original work was mine now was I?? I think not.

I'm glad you know of what happened to my work last year too. Maybe you understand now that I would not knowingly rip off others work when it has happened to me in the past. I have told you that I have strong feelings about this practice. Also, that was why I chose to sell my work. Not to make money, but to try and limit how people obtained my files to begin with. My blog has grown since then and I do make some money from what I do through sales and commissions but it is not why I do it.

I'd like nothing more than to draw a line here and end this.

I have followed your work from the very first post. The original comment I made was more of a protectorate than an antagonist. I never tried to discredit any of your work or even the skill that its takes to lower a poly count on an existing model. The work that goes into a Pep model is nothing less than astounding. I am sure all of this can and will be set aside. :cheers
Had this thread not acquired the lynch mod that it so frequently does it would have been cleaned up alot earlier. This post very quickly spun from constructive to destructive not by anything that was said by yourself or myself. I feel that when things like this happen the sides are drawn and regaurdless of the origional point it becomes a petty flame war. Which I did none of the sort, at least to you and hope you are not offended by anything I may have been trying to point out.

To all else(with exception). Keep it up. You are doing the thing you complain so much about then wonder why people get upset and bail out. The rest of us don't wonder, we just wonder what took so long for it to happen.
 

Skupilkinson

Active Hunter
I understand the underlying argument, but the argument should beone of that model isnt anywhere near accurate, so what is trying to be accomplished?

Well that's another aguement completely. :) True, tis may well not be 501st acceptable when built and finished. However, that was not the objective. Some people want to have the costumes without the higher price tag that goes with them. Especially if they aren't interested in being in the 501st or any other group.

This was just a way for others to make their own armor and be able to dress as a clone.

It will also undoubtably need tweaking here and there to fit individual people as we're all different builds and heights but that's no different to the armor kits that we can buy these days.

Zero, I don't quite understand what this quote is meant to mean buddy??
"You are doing the thing you complain so much about then wonder why people get upset and bail out. The rest of us don't wonder, we just wonder what took so long for it to happen"

I'm glad that we may have reached an agreement on this and can now talk here and enjoy the forum and discussions?? :)
 

Nyx Mandalore

Jr Hunter
Guess that about sums it up

"I would prefer that you take your contentions with him up in private"

And I would prefer not to. It is not you to decied how this was handled. you may not like the way I handled it and I don't like paying taxes. Iguess we will both sleep well at night knowing we had such an impact on the others lives.
I don't believe anyone has called anyone a name or has said anything to the nature until phrases like juvenile and flame and bickering which are words designed to strike an emotional reaction in a logical discussion. no better than flaming someone about misspelling a word when you cant get one up. this was a technical discussion until the likes of these types of comments. adding emotion to fact just screws things up, as you have just seen

If you are incapable of seeing that rudeness and name-calling (such as referring to the community as a pack of hyenas) in a public forum are immature and unprofitable ways to resolve an issue, then so be it.

Despite coming under fire, Skip has remained gracious and polite throughout this exchange and in point of fact has even come to see it your way.

Perhaps if you had spoken to him privately, you could have accomplished the same without the need to air your angst for all to see.

But as you so ably point out, it's not for me to decide how you resolve your quibbles.

That is all I'll say as the issue has been resolved.
 

Skupilkinson

Active Hunter
Guys come on. :) I feel responsible for this now.

I do see how Zeros comments may have offended but to be honest after reading this through with a clearer head I can see that his intentions were good. His heart is in the right place so to speak. He feel passionate about something here, and that is he's speaking out about peoples work being ripped off. Although that's not how I look at what I've done, he did and wanted to do something about it. Someone like that is a credit to this community where we see recasts often.

I know if it were my work being ripped off as it has in the past I'd be happy to have someone like this with the vigilance he has, on my side.

Let's put an end to this before it continues and we all forget what we even got all fired up over?

Vode an!!!! ;)
 
"Zero, I don't quite understand what this quote is meant to mean buddy??
"You are doing the thing you complain so much about then wonder why people get upset and bail out. The rest of us don't wonder, we just wonder what took so long for it to happen""
Was not meant towards you. It was meant as a general statement to the people that decided there involvement was needed. It doesn't take much see a constructive post versus one that if it was deleted the Topic would still have the same outcome. I will call them "The Pumping Posts" posts that offer nothing but to fuel a war, similar to the dog kickers in a Pit Bull fight, two dogs wont fight unless they are provoked. This debate was of a technical nature with little or no room for escalation but it still manages to get there somehow.

I am glad you see my intentions. I would defend anyone's work the same way, and have in the past, on many different forums.
 

Art Andrews

Community Founder
Community Staff
You know.. for our first "clone fight" I think this has been handled pretty darn well! I have to applaud both Skupilkinson and ZeroVisibilite for remaining fairly calm cool and collected under some heavy fire. I do have to address a rather disturbing issue though... The drive-by comments thrown out by some in this thread are pretty deplorable. I think most of you who made comments like "we don't care where it came from" will find that this kind of attitude doesn't fly very well here at TDH. It DOES matter where something comes from. Based on Skupilkinson's comments, I genuinely don't think he meant harm and this thread has helped him come to realize the issues associated with such things. However, for the rest who feel that "by whatever means necessary" I can only shake my head and hope you will see that this is an attitude that only leads to chaos.
 

CGClone

Active Hunter
Good points Art, I apologize openly if my accuracy comment came off rough. I am sorry for that. Not good on my part.
 

nzjedi

Jr Hunter
Hmmm I had a bash at this myself a while back. (based on my own 3d work and ILM model sheets)
ShinStart.jpg



( I know, I know, clones don't have heels... and there should be ankle discs.... Im a noob, what are you going to do? :p)
 
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