EE3 scope. An alternative to the ASI. Vintage part bashing. Pic heavy.

[intwenothor]

Brothers and sisters, I’ve been a member here for a while now but have not really posted much as I have never had much constructive to add and so didn’t want to end up pad posting. I’m still in the early days of building my Fett and I know it’s a long process. As I read through the boards I find that there is a great quest for original parts and super accuracy. One of the parts in great demand is the ASI 4x20 scope with correct tall feet. I am sure many here will frequently be on the lookout for these as I am but having little success. Although there are probably far more important parts out there I became somewhat obsessed with this small piece. I turned my attention to attempting to part bash a scope from real vintage parts and thought my progress might be of interest to some struggling scope hunters out there. Apologies if I am duplicating the work of others and this is all rather old hat but I couldn’t see a thread in the boards although do wait to be corrected.

I’ve studied quite a lot of photo’s and reference material as well as reading and re reading many old threads posted in the boards to this point and think I’m very close if not nearly spot on unfortunately I don’t have the real thing to directly compare to (in which case I probably wouldn’t have done this) so I can never be quite certain.

The scope I have created has the exact dimensions of the ASI scope pictured in this thread by Sidewinder:
http://www.thedentedhelmet.com/f20/more-scope-help-pls-30778/

In order to create this scope I used parts from four different vintage scopes (although it could actually have been accomplished with three). Excuse my photography skills.

The scope came from:
Nikko Stirling Mountie 4x20 – 1

Nikko Stirling Mountie 4x20 – 2

Apart from the obvious difference of the branding the scopes themselves are also different in a couple of subtle ways. More on that in a moment.

BSA 4x20 Scope (1950s)

and a Webley and Scott 4x15. Sorry no picture available as it would involve taking my Frankenscope apart in order to rebuild it.

************************************************************EDIT 20/07/2012****************************************

Here is a picture of a Webley 4 x 15 almost identical to the one I used to build the Frankenscope. The only difference that I can see being the screw heads on the windage blocks; they are better than the ones I used on my original Frankenscope, they are rounder and more domed. The ones on the windage block from my first Webley 4 x 15 were much flatter (see below).

*************************************************End Edit***************************************************

I don’t necessarily know which of the Nikko Stirling Mounties is older so I refer to them as “1” and “2” respectively as that is the order in which they were purchased.

So, the main tube body of the scope is from Nikko Stirling 1. The tube on Nikko Stirling 2 is not identical. The Nikko 2 tube is longer by roughly ¼ inch. Enough of a difference to be noticeable to the naked eye when constructed. This is not due just to the difference in overall length of the scope but because it puts out the position of the windage blocks a fraction which makes the overall dimension changes more noticeable. When I tried using the Nikko 2 I could not match the dimensions posted in the picture by Sidewinder.

The Labelled eyepiece with the brand name (the one that points to the front on the ESB blaster) is from the Webley 4x15.

Ditto with the knurled ring, the 4x15 from Webley.

The Windage block and elevation caps are from the Webley 4x15 also.

The unbranded eyepiece is from the Nikko Stirling Mountie – 2.

I had previously used the eyepiece from Nikko 1 but it’s dimensions did not quite please me. It appears fractionally shorter overall but more noticeable is the point at which the eyepiece tapers; the definition is sharper on the Nikko 1. The Nikko 2 has a much softer taper and this appeared closer to me.

Nikko 1 Eyepiece (rejected).

Comparison of Nikko Eyepieces. Nikko 2 is the preferred one at the top.

Scope mounts with correct hero rings and tall feet were from the BSA 4x20 from the 50’s. Here's a close up of the branding:

Here is the completed scope:

One area where I'm still not quite happy is the screws on the windage block; to me they appear slightly too flat and should have more of a dome shape to them, to be more rounded. I do have set that have the right shape on the screw head but to do not fit the screw holes. I had considered starting to chop bits up and securing them in place but reconsidered as i felt it defeated the point of the whole exercise. Overall I'm very happy with the results. The final used pieces were not the only scopes I looked at and compared just the pieces I chose finally. To simplify things I believe that you can get most of the way there with:

One Nikko Stirling Mountie 4x20 (either)
One Webley and Scott 4x15.
This would get most of the components but might well leave you with a couple of deficiencies, the most notable of which would likely be that you would end up with the correct hero rings but the short mounting feet the others being sacrificing either overall dimensional satisfaction or the unbranded eyepiece dimensions.

Hope that was helpful to someone out there.

Live the dream.

Andy

 

[jakefox24]

Hey Andy , nice little piece , you may be interested to know The scope made in japan was released by the same manufacturers under different brand names hence similarities . See an ASI 4x20 scope went for £180 on ebay yesterday !

 

[Darth Voorhees]

That is a fine piece of frankenscope! Love it man!

 

[stormtrooperguy]

Very nice! My scope is a mashup of a few different ones as well. Great job!!

 

[intwenothor]

Hey Andy , nice little piece , you may be interested to know The scope made in japan was released by the same manufacturers under different brand names hence similarities .

Thanks dude. I know the symbol you mean, like a wavy line with a straight line through it. It can just be seen on the Webley branded eyepiece. in one of the full length pictures. When I realised an ASI was going to be a hard find I started looking at a lot of these old scopes. God knows how many have been through my hands in the last few months. Some on the usual websites but also from charity shops and car boot sales. I've become pretty sucked in by the whole searching for vintage parts. My hunt for Exactra calculators has led to some other pretty bizarre knowledge that I never intended to have but have accumulated on the way. The thing is I'm still interested in trying to find out what other combinations are out there. I'll post any findings.

 

[intwenothor]

You may think I paid too much but I'm quite pleased. Actually I'm surprised that no one else bid. I'm looking forward to comparing to my frankenscope to see how close I got. I know the mounts are wrong but I have those.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Classic-A-S-I-4x20-Air-Rifle-Scope-Made-Japan-/160818274294?pt=UK_SportingGoods_Hunting_ShootingSports_ET&hash=item2571841ff6http://

 

[intwenothor]

Right. My ASI 4x20 arrived today and I've compared it to my Frankenscope. I really think the Frankenscope is very, very close and some parts are clearly absolutely identical. It's still not perfect, as noted before and there are still a couple of deficiencies including one I was not aware of as I had not actually seen a real ASI before, only a cast and pretty poor one at that.

Anyway. Here are some direct comparison pictures.

First is a comparison of the ASI and Webley 4x15 Branded eyepieces. They are identical (except for the branding of course).

Knurled rings. ASI on the left. Webley 4x15 on the right. Identical.

Here's the windage block and elevation caps on the Webley 4x15. It is the same as the ASI 4x20 with the exception of the screws that attach it to the tube of the scope. The Frankenscope (top) features screws which are too flat. The ASI screws are rounder than the Webley. I had thought this would be the case as noted in a previous post.

A comparison of the unbranded eyepieces. My Frankescope uses the unbranded eyepiece from the Nikko Stirling Mountie 4x20. The overall shape is fairly good but not exact. One feature I hadn't known about was the the ASI unbranded eyepiece has an extra piece of detail, almost like a lip where the eyepiece attaches to the tube. On the Nikko the eyepiece tapers straight to the tube and sits flush without an extra stage. I've tried to do a close of what I mean up but it's a bit blurry.

Extra lip on ASI.

Here is an overall comparison of the two.

So, I still think it's a real viable alternative to the ASI by means of part bashing. Secondly (and I realise many of you will be aware of this already) there are of course other scopes that share the same dimensions as the ASI and only have different branding. I have acquired one of these and so this is also a viable alterantive and no doubt preferable to a frankenscope for many. If you can find one of course, I'm not sure these are very common either.

The Sussex armoury 4x20.

With the exception of the brand name this is absolutely identical to the ASI 4x20 in every single facet. I have not troubled with the same number of comparisons of the different parts. Please take my word, it is identical. Mine has a little dink in the eyepiece but it's barely noticable and of course it shares the wavy line with the straight line through/infinity symbol that's a major factor in the search.

A comparison of the Sussex Armoury 4x20 and the ASI 4x20. ASI on the top. There the same, including the extra lip on the unbranded eyepiece.

Here are all three compared. ASI on top. Frankescope in the middle. Sussex Armoury on the bottom.

I should point out the following; The ASI cost me £65.00 plus £3-4 P&P which is aorund the $100 mark. The Sussex Armoury cost me £3.99 plus a couple of quid P&P. £3.99 is less than $7.00 (I saw one go very recently on ebay for around £25.00 - the other was the one I bought about a week before). I don't know how much I have spent buying various scopes since I started in February this year for the Frankescope as the ones I didn't need I sold. I can't keep track of what the true cost is without putting some effort in and I can't really be bothered. However if you were choosing the Frankenscope method and used this thread as a start point you can go straight to the parts I got without buying extra models only to find they are incompatible. If you can't put a nice looking frankenscope together for £30 - £40 I'd be surprised.

.......and my MOW boots turned up today. Those things are ruddy awesome. If you're on the fence I think you should get off it. I think they are well worth the money. Well worth it. Looking forward to colouring them.

Live dream etc.

Andy

 

[lonepigeon]

You got a pretty good deal on that ASI! (and an awesome deal on the Sussex Amoury one)
Somebody paid far more for a correct ASI recently and someone else paid WAY too much for an incorrect ASI. People need to watch out. Just because it's an ASI doesn't mean it's correct. Yours looks perfect.
The Sussex Armoury has been mentioned before. It's a great alternative to the ASI. It was determined before that the little squiggly line next to "Japan" on the scopes indicates that they were made by the same manufacturer. They were just branded differently for sale in the UK.
Someone else got a great deal on a Sussex Armoury scope this week (not as good as your deal though).

 

[intwenothor]

Hey Chris, thanks for your comments. I'm a massive fan of Parts of Star Wars of course. A great site. I was pretty pleased with the ASI price but I knew the Sussex was cheap. Even for a cheap 4x20 scope it's cheap.

Is it me or have there been a glut of ASI 4x20 on ebay in the last month?

I reckon that people have seen one or two go for silly money and thought: 'Blimey people are paying over £100 for a cheap old scope, I've got one in the loft and it's going on ebay......'

 

[jakefox24]

Hey Andy , you're right there has been a bit of a run of ASI's on ebay for silly money ! Nice little piece on the scopes you added matey !!

 

[lonepigeon]

There's been one dealer with a bunch of ASI's recently. Only one was really good and it went for crazy money. The incorrect ones went pretty high too.
I highly recommend people LOOK CLOSELY at what they're bidding on.
Check the pics of the ASI in this thread for what a correct one looks like.
Not all Sussex Armoury scopes are correct either.
Look for the squiggly line symbol (sideways backwards S with a line through it).

Check the adjustment knobs, the knob base, eyepiece, knurled ring etc.

Another bit of interesting ASI info...
There are ASI's with metal eyepieces and some with plastic eyepieces. They're virtually identical and VERY hard to tell apart in pictures. The eyepieces on the plastic one are just a little wider in diameter (plastic is thicker than metal for strength). I'm pretty certain the metal one is the correct version.

 

[intwenothor]

I believe that both my ASI and my Sussex have metal eye pieces.

 

[lonepigeon]

I believe that both my ASI and my Sussex have metal eye pieces.

It looks like they do in the closeup pics. There's some wear at the edges showing a little metal.
The plastic is noticeable when you see it in person.
I only have one plastic ASI. The metal ones are probably older and more common.

 

[intwenothor]

Does the ASI with the plastic eyepiece have dimensional differences to the metal one?

 

[intwenothor]

There's been one dealer with a bunch of ASI's recently. Only one was really good and it went for crazy money. The incorrect ones went pretty high too.
I highly recommend people LOOK CLOSELY at what they're bidding on.
Check the pics of the ASI in this thread for what a correct one looks like.
Not all Sussex Armoury scopes are correct either.
Look for the squiggly line symbol (sideways backwards S with a line through it).

This is too true. People need to watch out. An incorrect ASI 4x20 sold for £121 recently on ebay. The winner of that auction then appears to have sold that same scope on for just £2.20. Ouch!

Anyway... On another subject. I posted recently in another thread that I didn't think that the correct scope hero rings (receiver rings) with tall feet were all that difficult to find but was very politely pooh poohed and told I had been lucky (I also posted I found a set on a Nikko Sterling Mountie in that same thread, which after looking back was incorrect - I have since put an edit to address that part of the post).

I stand by my original comment in that I do not think they are too tough to find. I managed to acquire three sets in under six months and let a fourth set slip away on 24/06/2012 (wasn't prepared to bid high enough on ebay).

Having reviewed all the old scopes I bought to make my Frankenscope it is true that I obtained a set from a BSA 4 x 20 from 1958. I originally thought I'd got another set from one of the Nikko Sterling Mounties I'd bought but I was mistaken. Both the NS Mounties I bought had the correct receiver/hero rings but both came with the shorter feet as did many of the old scopes I obtained. I'm sure you all know that the rings with the short feet a really very common. As I looked through everything I'd bought and the pictures of them before I started messing around and moving parts I found that the other two set of Hero/receiver scope rings with the tall feet both came from the same scope (albeit different models of the same scope). The set of rings that I let slip away on 24/06/2012 were also attached to the same scope. This one:

Webley Scope/Sights - 4x15 | eBay

You can't see it in this picture but I emailed the seller for some better pics and it did have the tall feet. I think it too much of a coincidence to see these on the same scope and variants three times in under six months. I therefore believe that people looking for the correct hero/receiver rings with the tall feet should look for the Webley 4 x 15 scope.

One other thing. Those saving searches on ebay might consider expanding their searches to look for 'sights' as well as 'scopes'. Some of the scopes I have found and have got a good deal on have been listed as 'sights' and not 'scopes' (chiefly British) because so few people have bid on them and it is my belief that this is due to people looking for 'scopes' and not 'sights'.

Live the dream.

Andy

Black Adder 4 - Pooh Pooh - YouTube

****************************************Edit 20/12/2012********************************************************

An update on the correct hero/receiver rings and tall mounting pads/tabs/feet.

I got another Webley 4x15 recently, it was almost identical to the one I used in my original Frankescope build. The only difference being that the scre heads on the windage blocks were rounder and more domed, just like the one on the ASI 4x20 scope and the Sussex Armoury 4 x 20 Scope. I have updated my first post with some more pictures.

Also, here are some pictures of the two types of Webley 4 x 15 that I have bought to acquire these scope rings and tall feet. I have bougth three Webley 4 x 15 in the last six months or so. All had the correct rings and tall feet as well as the one that I let slip away on 24/06/2012 (above). That makes four sets of the correct feet and rings on the same scope in six months. I definitely recommend that anyone that needs the correct rings and feet goes for the Webley 4 x 15. Happy hunting.

The Webley I got this week. Almost identical (actually slightly better) than the one I used in Frankenscope.

A comparison with the other type of Webley 4 x 15 I bought. The scope rings removed to be put on the Sussex Armoury. Note that this is vastly differen to the other Webley and not much use for a Frankenscope. The only other part that is the same is the knurled ring. The windage black is different and although the dust caps on the elevation screws look correct they are marginally bigger than those used on the other Webley and the ASI and Sussex. They do not secure to the ASI or Sussex elevation screws. I have tried them. They are too big!

Eyepiece comparison.

Different manufacturer symbols. The one we want is on the left. Incidently, I have seen ASI 4 x 20 scopes with the symbol on the right.

*******************************************END EDIT******************************************************

 

[intwenothor]

I recently saw a Hunter 4 x 20 scope on ebay. I'd never seen one before. It went too high for me so I didn't buy it. The seller's pictures weren't great but it looked to share much with the ASI and appeared to have the wavy line symbol on the branded eyepiece, although the branded eyepiece did not look correct. It seems the winning bidder was a Star Wars collector. Was it one of you guys? If so can anyone post some pictures of it or if anyone else has one anyway could they post pictures please?

 

[locitus]

I recently saw a Hunter 4 x 20 scope on ebay. I'd never seen one before. It went too high for me so I didn't buy it. The seller's pictures weren't great but it looked to share much with the ASI and appeared to have the wavy line symbol on the branded eyepiece, although the branded eyepiece did not look correct. It seems the winning bidder was a Star Wars collector. Was it one of you guys? If so can anyone post some pictures of it or if anyone else has one anyway could they post pictures please?

It was I who won it, with some help of a brittish mate since the seller only shipped within the UK.

 

[intwenothor]

I knew it was a star wars person. Congrats. That is a great looking scope. Tall feet on the correct receiver rings too. Would you be kind enough to post some pictures for me? It looked really, really close but as I wrote above his pictures weren't great. I'm really interested in the branded eyepiece. In his pictures it didn't look right but I coiuldn't really tell. I would certainly have put in a bid or two if I hadn't already tracked down my ASI but I still want to track down as much information on different vintage scopes as I can.

 

[locitus]

I knew it was a star wars person. Congrats. That is a great looking scope. Tall feet on the correct receiver rings too. Would you be kind enough to post some pictures for me? It looked really, really close but as I wrote above his pictures weren't great. I'm really interested in the branded eyepiece. In his pictures it didn't look right but I coiuldn't really tell. I would certainly have put in a bid or two if I hadn't already tracked down my ASI but I still want to track down as much information on different vintag scopes as I can.

I'm waiting on it to be delivered from my mate who bid for me on the auction. But once I get it I can get you whichever angle you want. I think it's extremely accurate, and I won it for less than what I paid for my sussex scope without the feet. Although, the sussex scope was in mint condition.

 

[intwenothor]

Yes, I saw you have a Sussex in your thread. If you could take some snaps of the Hunter and post them I'd be very grateful to see them. As many as you could would be lovely.