Sorry to revive this Star Trek thread, but I just saw the film for the first time and I have to say I didn't like it much. Yet another sloppy plot where some bad guy goes back in time to destroy the future. Where have we seen that before? Yes, it is true that many Star Trek films create all sorts of weird logic to make sense of their plots, but after seeing this one I have to ask the obvious -- why do space ships always get to go through black holes and "come out the other side" to return to the past, but planets and supernova are simply sucked up and destroyed? Also, am I the only one in the quadrant who understands that if you intend to destroy a planet with a black hole, it isn't necessary to place the black hole in the center of the planet!? I think anywhere NEARBY will work okay. The problem is, Hollywood thinks the audience is stupid, and apparently they are right because audiences eat this stuff up like the bland coconut-oil-less popcorn they serve at the theater.
Actually, as far as plot lines go, this ranks as one of the campiest yet of the series. And then next to plot there is the problem with the characters and how they all end up promoted to command and senior positions right out of the Academy. Ugh. This film is more of a superhero origins movie in the tradition of Batman Begins rather than anything Star Trek that has come before it. I mean really... Uhura, Kirk and Mccoy all meet in Iowa on the shuttle craft for new recruits? Iowa? McCoy was from Iowa, too??? This movie requires you to switch your brain off, which is a bad place to start if you want to make good science fiction, but again, that raises the last sad point... this is not science fiction. It is just an action flick with black holes and lasers instead of car chases.
I am assured now more than ever that the previous assertion that Abrams is a hack is absolutely correct.
No disrespect intended, just defending my viewpoint.
I think that the way they introduce Scotty is good.
No problem with this either. That is a clever idea to be sure, though it is used rather blandly as a shameless plot device.I like that he is given his formula for beaming onto the enterprise while it is at warp speed by Spock Prime.
The problem is, Scotty doesn't really have this capabiity either, so to make this assumption of experience level is a leap I am not following. Experience comes from actually doing things. Scotty didn't do anything. He was given the formula from some guy from the future. That's not experience. Sure, he may have the experience >in the future<, because that's where he invented the formula, but that's not at all the same as having done it in the present. If a friend of Einstein's traveled back in time and gave him his formulas for General Relativity when he was still just 8 years old, would the 8 year old Einstein then suddenly have the chops to be Lucasian Chair of Physics at Cambridge University? Even if everybody thought this 8 year old did this on his own, would they elevate him right away to top spot, no questions asked? You seem to be thinking so, but I cannot make that leap. You see, the problem is, I WANT to believe that Starfleet can be real within this fantasy world in which this movie lives. I WANT to believe it has real rules and something like a real chain of command where people earn their place through hard work and experience similar to say, how the chian of command in the United States Navy would work. But in this film it feels more like the Somali Pirate Navy, where promotions are had willy-nilly, based on whether you show up with your own AK-47 or a sling shot. Say some pithy dialog at the right moment, BAM, years of working your way up the ladder is bypassed and you are promoted to First Officer. Forget those other chumps in line for the job who have years more experience and are further up the chain of command. As I have eluded to before, when this type of thing happens the character development becomes more like a super hero movie rather than any of the stuff of previous Star Trek films. For example, in every Star Trek timeline before this film, Kirk cuts his teeth as a junior officer on another vessel for several years before given a command of a Starship. Now THAT is character arc. Character development. Something far more believable and weighty -- and in my humble view -- far more interesting. The main characters in this film are just superheroes who only achieve their positions by the entitlement granted them by their character name. But hey, if you like superheroes, then I guess all this type of thing makes sense. I just don't remember Star Trek as a superhero franchise. Pity. I guess I am behind the times.and we can only assume that he is more experienced than the previous engineer, because he has his formula at that point and they do not yet have this capability.
You're going to make me cry. I might never be able to walk into another development meeting again. Resistance is futile.I personally loved this movie and thought that the character development was done well for all of the main characters.
i love you and want to have your babies...I'm getting in deeper than I ever intended, but alas, a few more swings of the blade into the empty air and then I will gracefully exit. Clearly I am in the minority opinion and that pesky studio creative exec is right.
I have no problem with his introduction. That was fine. Frankly I was just relieved he wasn't on the shuttle from Iowa like everybody else.
No problem with this either. That is a clever idea to be sure, though it is used rather blandly as a shameless plot device.
The problem is, Scotty doesn't really have this capabiity either, so to make this assumption of experience level is a leap I am not following. Experience comes from actually doing things. Scotty didn't do anything. He was given the formula from some guy from the future. That's not experience. Sure, he may have the experience >in the future<, because that's where he invented the formula, but that's not at all the same as having done it in the present. If a friend of Einstein's traveled back in time and gave him his formulas for General Relativity when he was still just 8 years old, would the 8 year old Einstein then suddenly have the chops to be Lucasian Chair of Physics at Cambridge University? Even if everybody thought this 8 year old did this on his own, would they elevate him right away to top spot, no questions asked? You seem to be thinking so, but I cannot make that leap. You see, the problem is, I WANT to believe that Starfleet can be real within this fantasy world in which this movie lives. I WANT to believe it has real rules and something like a real chain of command where people earn their place through hard work and experience similar to say, how the chian of command in the United States Navy would work. But in this film it feels more like the Somali Pirate Navy, where promotions are had willy-nilly, based on whether you show up with your own AK-47 or a sling shot. Say some pithy dialog at the right moment, BAM, years of working your way up the ladder is bypassed and you are promoted to First Officer. Forget those other chumps in line for the job who have years more experience and are further up the chain of command. As I have eluded to before, when this type of thing happens the character development becomes more like a super hero movie rather than any of the stuff of previous Star Trek films. For example, in every Star Trek timeline before this film, Kirk cuts his teeth as a junior officer on another vessel for several years before given a command of a Starship. Now THAT is character arc. Character development. Something far more believable and weighty -- and in my humble view -- far more interesting. The main characters in this film are just superheroes who only achieve their positions by the entitlement granted them by their character name. But hey, if you like superheroes, then I guess all this type of thing makes sense. I just don't remember Star Trek as a superhero franchise. Pity. I guess I am behind the times.
Did I just say franchise? Oh crud.
Oh, and an aside here: there might be an answer for this I am not aware of, but does anyone know why McCoy is at the weapons console during the Kobayashi Maru test? Did I miss something? He's still just a doctor, right?
You're going to make me cry. I might never be able to walk into another development meeting again. Resistance is futile.
Nah, I'm kidding. I'm not going to cry. Oh. Wait. What?
Hey, you know, I personally love Star Trek and I really truly wanted to not just like this film, but love it. Maybe I am just an old fart too stuck in the past. Maybe the reason I don't care for this Star Trek is the same reason I didn't care much for the Star Wars prequels. I'm stuck on the old magic. The new stuff has its own magic. It's a different magic. One that just doesn't speak to me.
Nah. Let's face it. The magic is gone.
you immediately contradict yourself. spock GIVES simon pegg (that wasn't scotty, that was simon pegg pretending to be scotty. pegg was awful as scotty. it really felt like abrahms was told one day during production that there was a character named scotty on the old show and he said, "WHO?" and after a brief description he eventually said, "well... get another writer and put him in ahhh... here." and he pointed to a random page on the script.) the equation/formula because this universe scotty wasn't capable of making the math work.Scotty does have this capability.Scotty had already been working on this for some time. Scotty makes this known by stating that he never thought of space as the thing that was moving.When Spock Prime gives him his own formula,
first off, none of them were at warp in that scene. second, yes simon pegg did do that, but if someone who already knew the launch codes for americas nuclear weapons told you the codes, you could go start WW3. simon pegg didn't know what he was doing, but he had a great cheat sheet.Secondly, if Spock could just type it in and move them to the Enterprise, I am going to say that Scotty could also. But wait, he did. Who do you think gets Spock, Kirk and Pike back on the Enterprise at the end of the movie. Spock is in his moving ship, Kirk and Pike are in Nero's ship (two different places) and the Enterprise is moving as it is currently attacking when they are beamed back on. Maybe it is just me, but I sure don't think that any other engineer on that ship would have been able to do that. Even Scotty is thrilled that he was able to beam three people from two different targets at the same time
the rebel alliance was not a formal military organization. they were guerrilla terrorists. rank structure and advancement operates a little differently in that environment than in a real military. i.e. if han worked for the other side and managed to blow up yavin before luke got his lucky shot in the hole, he would have gotten a commendation on his record, and a GJ from tarkin (who would have taken all the real credit for the defeat of the rebels) and the emperor wouldn't have given two poops about who actually did it. and certainly wouldn't have been advanced in rank to general.As for plausability of quick promotions, one Han Solo, the smuggler in ANH, helped the princess escape and gave Luke some assistance in the destruction of the Death Star. In ESB, helped the princess escape again and was then frozen in carbonite. Then in ROTJ, was rescued and suddenly when the plans to assault the imperial base on Endor were being fleshed out, he is a general. The highest possible rank. It was the merit of his actions that was the reason for superquick promotions, just like in Star Trek.