Any tips for molds

I think he was just saying how the hobby entirely is dangerous, not just vacu-forming. I will say I have had some close calls wil my dremel...cant aford to lose fingers or else I cant play Tuba! Thanks paul for all of your advice, I'd be lost if it weren't for information found here from people like you.

-tubachris
(Now off to make the MDF molds...)
 
Jon, sorry if I sounded like I was biting your head off... I appreciate the "safety first" thing, and do that myself sometimes.

I just wanted to make sure that people know that vacuum forming can be pretty safe, even for not-very-handy-or-expert people, if they avoid things like messing with 120V current and breathing styrene monomer fumes; there are safer alternatives. (Like using a prefab heating device & using water putty instead of Bondo.)

Too many of my grownup friends never got into making things, and don't even own an electric saw. Maybe a drill, but no saw. They can't make even simple things for themselves, which I find pretty sad. If they can't find pre-built in a store, or can't afford the store-bought version, they do without. Yuck.

I'd hate to see an enthusiastic kid discouraged from making cool stuff. (Especially learning to make their own tools to make cool stuff. I think that's the kind of educational and enabling thing that kids should do more of.)

I think he was just saying how the hobby entirely is dangerous, not just vacu-forming. I will say I have had some close calls wil my dremel...cant aford to lose fingers or else I cant play Tuba!

It's true, the auxiliary tools can be kind of scary. I'm at more risk from my razor-sharp scoring tool than from my Dremel, though.

(Another safety warning: don't breathe the fumes from cutting plastic with a Dremel. It generally melts the plastic a fair bit, and burns it a little. Burning plastics give off toxic fumes that properly heating them doesn't. Don't use a Dremel on plastic if you're not going to make sure the fumes are blowing away from you. If you're smelling it, that's bad. And if you're not going to be pretty careful about fumes, don't even heat most plastics; stick to relatively safe ones like styrene and PETG. Avoid Sintra and other PVCs, urethanes, etc.)
 
Jon, sorry if I sounded like I was biting your head off... I appreciate the "safety first" thing, and do that myself sometimes.

I just wanted to make sure that people know that vacuum forming can be pretty safe, even for not-very-handy-or-expert people, if they avoid things like messing with 120V current and breathing styrene monomer fumes; there are safer alternatives. (Like using a prefab heating device & using water putty instead of Bondo.)

Too many of my grownup friends never got into making things, and don't even own an electric saw. Maybe a drill, but no saw. They can't make even simple things for themselves, which I find pretty sad. If they can't find pre-built in a store, or can't afford the store-bought version, they do without. Yuck.

I'd hate to see an enthusiastic kid discouraged from making cool stuff. (Especially learning to make their own tools to make cool stuff. I think that's the kind of educational and enabling thing that kids should do more of.)



It's true, the auxiliary tools can be kind of scary. I'm at more risk from my razor-sharp scoring tool than from my Dremel, though.

(Another safety warning: don't breathe the fumes from cutting plastic with a Dremel. It generally melts the plastic a fair bit, and burns it a little. Burning plastics give off toxic fumes that properly heating them doesn't. Don't use a Dremel on plastic if you're not going to make sure the fumes are blowing away from you. If you're smelling it, that's bad. And if you're not going to be pretty careful about fumes, don't even heat most plastics; stick to relatively safe ones like styrene and PETG. Avoid Sintra and other PVCs, urethanes, etc.)


LOL I probly shouldnt say anything about safety, becuase I have yet to wear a mask when using the dremel at all. Didnt have any eye or nose/mouth protection when cutting the fiberglass for my fett helmet either. At least now Ive started to wear some spare remington shooting glasses when I work with cutting the PVC stuff...Even then, people think I look like a crack addict after im done:p

I actually found my breathin when playing Tuba to actually improve, but I circular breath anyways....;)

-tubachris

(Who wants to break the world record for holding the longest note)
 
I built everything for under $100, and if you make any armor off of your OWN molds and sell it, you pretty much make your money back immediately.

If you spend $250 on it, than you must be buying some pretty high end materials for it.

Fumes shouldn't be a danger really, you are only heating the plastic, not melting it. It won't be toxic at all unless you melt it. The fumes won't really "harm" you right away, you won't fall over choking. But when you wake up the next day, you'll feel like you have a sore throat, and that's from the fumes being taken in.

To Tuba,

You can pick up a nice scroll saw for $120 at SEARs or some place like that. It is worth the investment. I wouldn't suggest a band saw since you'll want to be doing more accurate cutting work for molds. You don't need a heck of a lot more than that to make the mdf molds because there are short cuts.

I use my hand planar, belt sander, drill press, scroll saw, and hand sander because I dropped the money and might as well use them to beef up the molds, but you could easily just get away with using just a scroll saw to cut your shape, build them up, and then use bondo or spackle paste to fill in the gaps and round off curves. Then sanding it smooth.

Just trying to put some options out there for you.

-=QuinN!
 
If you spend $250 on it, than you must be buying some pretty high end materials for it.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here---the cost of the armor materials, or the vacuum forming setup?

Fumes shouldn't be a danger really, you are only heating the plastic, not melting it. It won't be toxic at all unless you melt it. The fumes won't really "harm" you right away, you won't fall over choking. But when you wake up the next day, you'll feel like you have a sore throat, and that's from the fumes being taken in.

It depends on the plastic, and it's not quite that simple even for "nice" plastics like styrene.

The typical home vacuum forming setup---even a pretty good one---does not heat the plastic terribly evenly. There's usually a 30 degree difference between the middle of the heated side of the plastic and the corners of the other side of the plastic, even when the whole sheet is hot and soft enough to work pretty well. That makes it easy to burn the middle of the heated surface of the plastic just a little, but enough to release a little toxic gas, without knowing it.

If you're getting a sore throat, you're breathing too much plastic fumes.
Most of the fumes are probably just irritants, not real toxins or carcinogens, but there may be some stuff in there that's worse. Use better ventilation, and maybe get a $30 miscellaneous fumes respirator from Home Depot.

If you're messing with PVC, like Sintra or Kydex (they're blends of PVC and other stuff), be extra careful.
 
Hey guys ive have a list supplies I need for Vacuum Forming Table/Stormtrooper Armor. What do you think:

Plaster (Ultracal-30 or hydratone)
Utility knife
sculpting tools
small blocks of wood
trashable table
vacuum reducer nipple
thread pipe(To fit reducer nipple)
metal floor flange
screws
silicone gun
drill
metal joints
hinged clasps
8 1x4 walnut boards
foam/rubber weather stripping
roll of masking tape
paintstripping heat gun
32 vacuum frame .80 or .90 styrene plastic
pliers
gloves
wooden blocks
100 medium length 1/8 inch rivets
100 short length 1/8 inch rivets
200 steel/alumninium rivet backs
rivet gun
50 white snap buttons
button gun
2 yards black 1/2 wide elastic
1 yard white 1/2 inch wide elastic
2 yards black 1/2 inch wide webbing
1.5 yards white 2 inch wide webbing
plastic model cement
white primer paint
2 yard 1/4 inch foam with adhesive backing
2 foot 2 inch grey foam padding
white duct tape
(2) 4 inch square ventalation grills
black electrical tape
white weather stripping silicone
large sunglass lenses
semi see through dark cloth
weld-on brand ABS glue (either model #4707 or #1707
:love
 
My table and set up cost be probable $75

The most expensive part being the 4hp vaccum. I just used a plank of wood and set it up on 2 horses instead of building an entire "table" persay. Its easy to move around and doesnt take up much space at all when your done since there are no legs, could be just put into a small closet if needed so save space.
 
My table and set up cost be probable $75

The most expensive part being the 4hp vaccum. I just used a plank of wood and set it up on 2 horses instead of building an entire "table" persay. Its easy to move around and doesnt take up much space at all when your done since there are no legs, could be just put into a small closet if needed so save space.

If you have a Goodwill Blue Hanger store near by, you can usually get a fine vacuum for vacuum forming---just as good a good shop vac, and better than a crummy shop vac---for about $5.

See my "chapter 2" draft. It tells how to pick a vacuum cleaner at a thrift shop, using a piece of craft foam as a vacuum gauge.

http://www.tk560.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=1

It also gives various ways of building plastic-clamping frames that let you use bigger plastic in your oven than the wooden frames from studiocreations.com. Those boards are fine for small stuff, but you really don't want to lose 3 or 4 inches each way when you're trying to maximize the size that will fit in your oven.
 
Hey guys ive have a list supplies I need for Vacuum Forming Table/Stormtrooper Armor. What do you think:

It'd be easier to give useful comments if the list was broken down by what things you use for what. (Sculpting vs. Molding vs. Casting vs. Vacuum Forming vs. Trimming vs. Finishing, etc.)

For example, I don't know what you plan to do with the walnut boards, so I don't know if they're The Right Thing. And ultracal sounds fine for making a mold, or casting a short-run buck, but it's not an especially good sculpture medium.
 
I'm not sure what you're referring to here---the cost of the armor materials, or the vacuum forming setup?



It depends on the plastic, and it's not quite that simple even for "nice" plastics like styrene.

The typical home vacuum forming setup---even a pretty good one---does not heat the plastic terribly evenly. There's usually a 30 degree difference between the middle of the heated side of the plastic and the corners of the other side of the plastic, even when the whole sheet is hot and soft enough to work pretty well. That makes it easy to burn the middle of the heated surface of the plastic just a little, but enough to release a little toxic gas, without knowing it.

If you're getting a sore throat, you're breathing too much plastic fumes.
Most of the fumes are probably just irritants, not real toxins or carcinogens, but there may be some stuff in there that's worse. Use better ventilation, and maybe get a $30 miscellaneous fumes respirator from Home Depot.

If you're messing with PVC, like Sintra or Kydex (they're blends of PVC and other stuff), be extra careful.

I'm not saying I get sore throats, I'm just saying that'd be a danger for someone heating the plastic and not paying too much attention. As far as not heating evenly, mine is pretty decent. The way I have my built the oven, the walls taper in so the area on the bottom is a lot bigger than the top so the heat circulates and goes up and hits all parts of the plastic. Using a top with an insulated handle also helps keep heat in, and i can shift it so a side can heat up more, and the heat can escape on the side exposed.
There is still some degree difference, but it's a lot better than square ovens.


-=QuinN!
 
Well I guess i'm kinda back, but I don't know if bumping is against the rules. Well I used up all my money and now have I think 75-100, but I don't know if I can vacuum form, still got to get better at sculpting. Might start over the Summer, because this is when my parents would actually let me do it.:love HEEHEHEEH! Old Smiley glad to be back, Now I feel all fuzzy inside. :lol:
 
I learned how to Vacuform in Junior High School when I was 12 in shop class. They had a Vacuform machine about the size on a suitcase. Oven on one side and vac table on the other. Frame that held the plastic, hinged between the 2 sides.
The next year, at 13 we learned how to weld in Industrial Arts. Haven't done either since Junior High, but I'd say welding is more Dangerous than vacuforming. but there are Dangers in Vacuforming if you are using an Oven to heat your plastic. So I've read.

So I wouldn't want to discourage a Younger Member. Just make sure You
Read about it and Understand what you are doing. Ask Questions if you aren't sure about something. And above all, Be Safe. :love :p
General Grievous
 
Hey dude.

Same here mate....
I get the basic shape out of clay and vac form it. Then if it's rubbish, change my clay mould until it's CLOSE. You can use the clay again. Or for small things I use air hardening clay ad then just use them.

Change your mould and pull it in plastic again.

Take your formed plastic off, then line the negative plastic shape with liquid vaseline and pour plaster into it.
Depending on what your doing you can use household brown plaster...?Most of the time I use Krystical Alpha K plaster. Very high detail and very high density. This makes it easy to carve/file as it won't fracture.

Wood carving chisels work great on plaster if used correctly. Keep em clean. That's how Vader was sculped too :)

Then pull away!

Make a note of undercuts and ease of taking the sheet off the mould and where you need fine detail use a piano wire in a drill chuck (bend it back on itself a few times) and score back and flatten the end of the wire and drill through to the bottom of your mould. Or just a 1mm drill bit. Usually very short though. Do these in corners etc to help the suction pull into the detail.

Never place high edges close to the edge of your forming area and never place high edges close to one another if you plan on forming several parts in one go. Otherwise they web. You can cheat and ush down with a cloth whilst the plastic is still molten but I'd rather avoid it and play safe.

Me and a friend made a kids TK suit in a day! So give us a PM if you need any info.
It's not hard

Good luck
 
Great advice. I personally use hydrocal for the plaster, wood carving and sculpting tools made of metal work great as do dental tools. Don't let anyone dissuade you from trying to do it on your own. You age is only a crutch or hindrance if you let your imagination be stifled. Good luck.

-x
 
In case you didnt see this before. there is a company that sells Cast Molding Material called www. smooth-on. com that has lots of resin and molding materials, I use this to cast a usable mold of my work for the rest of the process. and its also a good way to keep your original work preserved so if you need to make a new mold for the forming you can always cast a new one with out redoing a new sculpt. hope this helps.
 
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