RECASTING - A must read ...

fettpride

Well-Known Hunter
Hi Everyone,

First, I want to apologize for having to take the time out to
address matters like this. As busy as things are right now,
I'm sure my time would be better spent doing what I should
be doing, and that certainly isn't writing novels.

As many of you have probably seen, yesterday I found that
my Nemrod V.1 SideArm Holster Replica has been recast.
Unfortunately, it appears to have been a misunderstanding
across the board as to the "who, what, where, and how".
Initially, it appeared to have been our own "Stormrider".
As more developed, it became clear very quickly, that Mike
"Stormrider" was mislead and was caught in the middle of
a misunderstanding he didn't even know the half of, until
now.

So before I get to the bones of the matter, I'd like
to extend a Public Apology to Mike (Stormrider), who I
do not believe had any unscrupulous intent in mind.
Along those same lines, Mike was buffaloed into a project
that he headed whole heartedly into and was taken advantage
of. He did not realize he was recasting a copy of my work.
As an act of good faith to him, and to help him recover his
monetary losses, I am extending him a public offer to
continue forward with the sales of his holster replica to recoup
his lost investment with my blessing. This offer however has
strings. All I would ask, is that Mike sells enough of the castings
to recoup his investment, and that he does NOT sell the mold
but instead after the run is finished, to send me the depleted
molds. After his investment has been made back, I would ask
that he ceases further production permanently.

I want Milke, as well as the rest of the community to know,
that I am not the demon some of you make me to be. It isn't
always about money. In a case like this, one of our own members
was hugely taken advantage of and he shouldn't be forced to
eat it. Especially in times like this. So Mike, if you're reading
this, have at it brother. Just let me know the specifics in terms of
how many of these you need to sell and keep me in the loop as
far as how it all goes.

To the matter at hand :

What this thread IS about, is the deplorable behavior of those in the
communities we call re-casters. It's a blanket term, that most of
us are all too familiar with.

I am NOT here to debate what a re-caster is, and isn't. It was made
very clear, again, what this membership's stance is on the matter.

(this is an excerpt from another thread about Mike, before Mike's
name was cleared and only used to reiterate the Administrations
stance)


We do not allow recasts of other member's work, even if it is from a found part without that member's approval.

I am not sure when or where our stance on this became confused, but for the sake of clarity, let me quote our official position:


I am assuming the confusion came from the part which states: "recasting another member’s creation without consent is not supported by this community" and someone took 'creation' to mean original sculpture. This is not the case.

While you may be ok with this type of recasting on a personal level, as a community, we don't support it. If you brought us evidence of a member recasting either your Webley or HiC, we would stop them from actively selling it here and/or at the RPF.

There is no need for you to disappear. There was clearly a misunderstanding due to you being given some bad information and the situation was exacerbated by the previous issues you and FP have had with one another. While I am sure it is frustrating and I know you are out $$$, we can't support you selling these here as they are recasts of Chris' work.

Now that it is clear what the rules are, you all need to be made aware that we
still have a re-caster in our midst.

In researching this matter it came to my attention that the holster that Mike (Stormrider) procured, was from our own Fettdad (Darrel Sanderson). Wether
or not it was actually a copy from my molds, or not, it became clear that it
was Darrell that had actually been recasting my holster.

Apparently he's been selling them for some time @$165. How long is unclear.
But the first thing to consider, is that Darrell purchased at least 3 of these holsters
from me personally. All of a sudden he's producing his own :(

Whereas that isn't enough evidence in of itself, it gets clearer. So bear with me.

In my poking around threads, I found that there were references all over the place that he has been selling holsters. But unlike ANYTHING else he sells, he NEVER advertised in the cargo hold for it. All sales have been handled on the QT in PM.
That raises many flags.

I come to find out that the holster that Darrell sent Mike, was broken, shattered.
It appears to have been broken in a molding mishap. Still, not enough.

So I put out feelers for individuals to come forward with any information about
Darrell, his communications with them, transaction histories, or pictures. It
only took a few moments for me to find all of the evidence necessary.

I have contacted Darrell in regards to this matter. So there is nothing left to the
imagination here, I am going to post it publicly.

fettpride said:
Darrell,

It saddens me deeply that I am actually sending you this message.

As we all know, shady things always find a way to surface, especially
when you don't trust the right people.

It came to light yesterday that Stormrider recast my Nemrod Holster.
But when I pulled the string and started to unravel this mess, to my
dismay I found out that you've been selling holsters on the sly as well.
Right before I found that out, I found out that it was you he got the
casting off of to recast. So technically, he recast me, through YOU.
And to think, I hung him out, when the fact is, he didn't even
have a clue.

It's fairly pointless for me to approach you with any shadow of a doubt.
You seem to think that you'd reproduced a "found item" from the real
world. But there is one thing you didn't consider buddy. I've been around
a long time. I put major tells in my work. Because I expect this sort of
behavior, and I want to call people on it when it happens. The only thing you
did to it, was mold in the strap. Did it ever occur to you that you had no idea
what you were fooling with ?

I certainly didn't expect this from you, Darrell. You offered me support in
my darkest times. You were always a great guy to me. It hurts me deeply,
that it had to be you.

I have forwarded all of my evidence to Art Andrews, and I will be submitting
a thread to address this matter. There is no way this could have been a simple
mistake man. You bought how many holsters from me ?? Do you even remember?
So, very sad. And for your efforts, I will make absolutely sure your business on
TheDentedHelmet.com is brought to an abrupt end.

Chris


As harsh as it may seem, I'm am absolutely done with this kind of behavior.
So many times, I've had to deal with things like this, and it's always said
that "the proof is the burden of the accuser". So I eventually, and begrudgingly
started putting signatures in my work. In this particular case, some of these
signatures weren't purposeful, but necessary to complete the task.

The original holster that was used as a master, was in poor condition. Outwardly
it seemed to look ok, but it turned out to be so brittle from age and salt water
exposure, that it started to crumble. Literally. Portions of the holster had to be
rebuilt. In doing so, a whole new master had to be made to allow for this as the
original holster is made of a vinyl material that nothing will stick to. In making
this new master, some aspects of it had to be rebuilt/re-sculpted. Whereas it
turned out to be one hell of a replica, it was not an exact replica. Which is why I recently abandoned it and started to finish off my V.2 holster project, which IS an
exact replica.

The funny thing is, a typical person doesn't know, and cannot tell the differences.
But they are glaring to the two guys who worked their asses off bringing this
replica to the community for the first time in the history of TDH. And these signs
and tells are irrefutable. But your average sleezy re-caster won't consider that
they might be playing with fire.

I don't call Darrell out on this to be a jerk. Some of you would ask, why would I even care since I've nearly abandoned it for V.2 ? Because it's principal. Wether a found part or not, it was "I" that spent 8 weeks trying to figure out how to even make
a mold of something so complex. I invested $1000 in materials for 3 failed experimental molds before I was able to make this happen for you all. What this
is about is exhaustion. I have continuously put out for this community. I can't go
on being stabbed between the shoulder blades like this. It's disheartening, disenchanting. And frankly, between my being called out continuously about members fears of my running off with their money, and people continuously taking advantage,
I can almost assure you, that my time with this community is now limited. I just can't give anymore. I have absolutely no life, for the cause. You all seem to think I make a fortune at this. Maybe even live some lavish lifestyle. Carefree and oblivious to those
around me that seem to think I look at them like the peasants of the costuming community. If that is the opinion any of you have formed of me, you are diluted. There seems to always be someone right around the corner that wants to be the next big Fett maker, with delusions of grandeur, and wanting to walk all over my ***. And use me as their shortcut. Or criticize me because I'm not doing enough, or that I'm not doing it fast enough. The truth is, no matter what I do, it is never enough. It is indeed a dog eat dog world, and I for one am not going to tolerate it anymore.

What I am going to do at this point, is hold back on the exact evidence that I am referring to until Darrell comes forward. The reason for this is to not show all
of my cards. But I can say, there is a major tell in the Nemrod Logo that I am prepared to expose foremost. But I'm not about to speak of it until his side of the story has been given. I will of course provide it to the Administration in the meantime. I wouldn't make these claims openly, and publicly and risk my own reputation if I wasn't absolutely sure.

I can tell you all how incredibly, sickly tired I am of this. For the moment, I leave you with the photo of a "Fettdad" Nemrod Holster Replica ..

nemrodrecast.jpg


Thank you all for your attention to this matter. I would ask, if you have any respect for me, or my work ... not to patronize sellers of my recast works. The vast majority of the time, what you will receive, albeit faster likely, is a cheap imitation. For not much less money apparently. By buying from these people, you promote them.
And above all, ask questions. That is the key. For your sake as well. How many of you have been taken advantage of because you were an unsuspecting buyer? If in doubt, post publicly about it here. Ask about "who, what, where, how, and what quality". It protects us all. And this shouldn't be taken as my wanting to monopolize any particular part or component. If someone can do it better, and more efficiently, I will celebrate them, not be bitter. Remember, I'm the one who sells my molds to carry on pieces to the community that I simply have no more time for. If it was all about money to me, I would grub my molds, or destroy them when I'm finished. Not allow someone to carry on my pieces.
 
Chris I'm sorry to hear all of this. I know when stuff like this happens it must be really discouraging for you, especially when it's someone you felt you knew (as a lot of us did as well). It would **** me off to no end as I'm sure you are.

I think this mostly goes unspoken from many members who you have a hand in helping create their Fett but thank you for making this an attainable hobby for me.

As a lucky original nemrod holster owner I think I see the difference you are speak of ;)
 
WOW!!! That made me sick to my stomach. I own an original FP Nemrod Holster along with a lot of other FP pieces and I have had many dealing with Darrel over the years. I am shocked that Darrel would do such a thing. I am sorry that this happened Chris.
 
Wow... I am still waiting on a holster from FettDad... I'm just over the 45 day mark so can't dispute it on PP. Should I not even expect it to come?
Sorry to hear about all this. Didn't realize I was buying a recast.
 
I appreciate the apology, and am not fully sure I deserve it. I can appreciate the dimensions of this scenario, and am not fully sure that I am blameless. I have spoken to chris on the phone at length, and have expressed the same to him.

I dont like villainizing darrell fully. (And let me be clear that I dont think that FP is doing that), I mean in general as hes not the only one at fault here. I would rather shoulder the blame, as I made a mold of a prop that I could see wasnt an original. With a few caveots that were both mis-information and mis-interpretation. I thought chris had abandoned his project (as I had seen the molds for sale thread a long time ago) and had sought information about 'copies of found items' that turned out to be the wrong information. I dont know that darrell would have or could have been able to make this mold without me, and without me being readily willing to do it without really going out, making contacts and examining the situation myself.

^ ^ What im saying here is that chris is being extremely generous here in not blaming me. Ignorance is not defence and its been made clear that this could be a much more difficult situation.

First yorke, pm me your shipping information. I have a slightly off color I can send you. Its darkest grey. We can discuss the shipping.

Chris has offered to let me make a few of these to recoup the cost of the mold. I will do roughly 10 of them. Ill update the thread to reflect so. I hope to be able to send chris a mold that has a good portion of life left.

I have told chris that im not sure I deserve to be exempt of this. Contrary to what I believed his stance would be, he has been more than supporting and generally good to me in light of this. Likely nicer than I would have been myself.

I dont intend to recoup my hours (many), just the cost of making the mold. The rubber that goes into these isnt cheap, neither the casting rubber, nor the silicone.

M2
 
Comparing Chris' posted picture of the holster to an original I have on hand, I can see the obvious tell in the Nemrod logo very clearly. Very clever, I must say.
 
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Sorry to here this Chris, and you too Mike. I remember you two being pretty close a while back. The way you have both conducted yourself in this matter is pretty inspirational and I sincerely hope you can take a step closer to being back where you once were on a personal level, you certainly made of the right stuff for that to happen.

The recasting issue will always rear it's head but it surprises me that such a high profile member (Darrell) would end up embroiled in this, seemingly with the only intent to make a few dollars. It is also a sad shame that this WILL NOT be an isolated case, and that other members will be selling items that are re-cast secretly via pm's or emails off the board to buyers hoping to save a little money, but you really do get what you pay for. Maybe the only reason this came to light is because the mold required is a complex one and needs someone with experience in mould making to pull it off, something the original seller learned the hard way.

Rob.
 
first of all, i am no recaster, i have never recasted anything...i dont have the skills to do that, but i am honored that someone in such a high position would actually think i do, so cheers!

second, after seeing the need for holsters here on TDH, and the time frame people were having to wait from our armor/helmet/etc omipotent god vendor here, i figured i would step in and help out...after seeing that this individual had sold his, or her, molds for the version one holster, and that it was A FOUND ITEM, i took it upon myself to get with someone to make some holsters for the community...now, it is going around that i have sold like fifty of these, and having them done in Europe...LOL!! i have sold maybe, MAYBE ten of these to close friends on here to help them out so they didnt have to deal with the anticks of said vendor ousting me...

so, with that being said, apparantly the admin i spoke to wont show up, and the fact the holster is a found item, and that the rules in the COC dont apply to every one, i am done here...i will finish my obligations to TDH and those that have sent me money...but the pettiness of the silly little threats coming from the top dont amuse me, i see it every day dealing with high school girls threatening each other in the hall ways...

cheers guys, been nice...get your facts straight before hanging someone out to dry...peace!
 
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second, after seeing the need for holsters here on TDH, and the time frame people were having to wait from our armor/helmet/etc omipotent god vendor here, i figured i would step in and help out...after seeing that this individual had sold his, or her, molds for the version one holster, and that it was A FOUND ITEM, i took it upon myself to get with someone to make some holsters for the community...

There are a number of things that aren't clear in what you are saying and I am just going to cut through the vagueness and name names because I am assuming most people know who you are talking about anyway. First, we have never stopped competition on this site. We have a number of people selling competing products and there is no problem with that. I don't know why or how you being told that fettpride sold his holster mold had anything to do with your deicison to offer holster. Second, just to make sure there is no confusion, you were given bad information as Chris had that mold for sale but didn't sell it, but that is really beside the point because anyone is welcome to buy an original holster, mold it, and start offering castings. However, where it seems there is some confusion regarding found items is that while you are welcome to buy your own ORIGINAL found item holster and mold it, and offer castings, you cannot use another member's casting of a found item, recast it and start offering castings. I am not sure where you got the idea that this was ok, and perhaps there are others who also are confused on this point, so let me be clear; it is NOT ok to recast a casting of a found item that was created by another member!

so, with that being said, apparantly the admin i spoke to wont show up

This is another point you seem to be confused about (and again, I am going to name names. It is my understanding that you spoke to asok who was an admin a number of years ago, but hasn't been on the admin staff in a long time. You implication is that he is hiding but the truth is, he doesn't spend much time at TDH any more due to real life obligations. Lets not paint this like it is a conspiracy when it isn't. Either asok gave you the wrong information or you completely misunderstood what he told you.

and the fact the holster is a found item

The fact that the holster is a found item doesn't mean it is ok to recast another member's casting of it.

and that the rules in the COC dont apply to every one

In what way?

i am done here...i will finish my obligations to TDH and those that have sent me money...but the pettiness of the silly little threats coming from the top dont amuse me, i see it every day dealing with high school girls threatening each other in the hall ways...(y)

It will be a shame to see you leave over what is clearly a misunderstanding on your part of our stance regarding the recasting of found items, but that will be your decision to make.
 
by the way, we all steal here...(y)

You do realize making a statement like that doesn't help your argument in any way and only makes you look like you are having to stoop to the pettiest of excuses to defend your position. Why would you say something like that?
 
its whatever...i am finishing my dealings with my customers, whether here or via phone, and then done with this nonsense...i know whose side you are on, Art, the guy who made you ALOT of money with GMH helmet project...cheers!

if i am banned, that is fine....admin doesnt believe me, cause fettpride doesnt...isnt that who we serve? Chris, hmpf, maybe you are a god...lol!! anyways, i will keep in contact with my customers via another member to stay on top of information needed to get to them...or, you guys can email me at:

d k k sanderson at hot mail dot com no spaces anywhere...i am loyal to my customers, but this is over...

as far as asok is concerned, really? he hasnt been admin for years? news to me...??? so the rules have changed since he has left? thanks for letting us know... i guess when you run the site, you can change rules and how they are worded on a daily basis...great!

if banning is needed, i understand fully...would be nice to wait to do so once i have finished my business with my customers...but it is fine...i am not going to be frequenting here anyway, and i have said my piece... but if i get banned, it is the customer that gets hurt in the process...just a thought...
 
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Very sad to see what this thing turns into ... FettDad, you´re a good friend of mine as we´ve had many conversations over the last years here on TDH.

I don´t understand your decision to leave TDH just because there is a misunderstanding ... ???

I always thought you would have the balls to say "ok, I am sorry ... I did misunderstand something." and all would be cleared.

You did so much for the community here, the most of us would have forgiven you that little sidestep ...

Come on D, kick yourself in the butt and stay!

Manuel
 
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