WIP: Clone Trooper Armor Templates.

Hey guys,

I just wanted to through something of mine into this new Clone section.

I've been working on trying to make some templates for the Clone Trooper so people can make their own armor if they choose. I tried this out for my custom Mando and it worked really well. Halo costumers are getting great results too so I wanted to get clone armor out there.

It was modelled in 3D and is now gonna be unfolded using cardmodel software the same way I do all my templates. It's gonna be a long build I think to get it right but the way I've done it should make fibreglassing and smoothing out alot easier.

Anyway, here's some pics:

http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/o...SPC/Image4.jpg

http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/o...ICS/SPC/t1.jpg

Unfolding all this will take some time so I'll update again when I have more. I hope to follow up with TCW clone armor and eventually RC armor too.

Hey Skip!

You gonna make this into a downloadable papkura file like you did for boba/jango armor?

I'm not sure to be honest buddy. I sell most of my work, with my Halo stuff being free at the 405th, and my Fett/Mando kit being free here and at the Mercs forum.

So I'm not sure whether to sell it with the rest or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skupilkinson

I'm not sure to be honest buddy. I sell most of my work, with my Halo stuff being free at the 405th, and my Fett/Mando kit being free here and at the Mercs forum.

So I'm not sure whether to sell it with the rest or not.

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Did you get this model from Emilio or did someone else send it to you.
The 3dworld like the prop world is kind of finicky about things like this. I would shoot him an e-mail if your planning on producing this for profit or even just as a courtesy to let him know what you are doing. Just some food for thought.

Plus the original model Emilio did needs alot of work to make it "Accurate" to a costume to wear.
Greg

Sorry? Emilio??

I know all about the 3D world my friend being a member of various forums. Though I don't really visit them these days, too busy with my own projects.

I was sent a 3D model by some via email who asked if I could use the model to make armor templates. I looked at the model but it was far too high poly to be used as it was, plus it wasn't my work to begin with. So I used the model as a template if you like to model my own from scratch. Closely following the original model, yet modelling my own, more simplified version over it. Deleting the original model as I went. I posted this on my blog days ago when I first mentioned the project. I don't take other peoples work and try to pass it off as my own, in fact I have strong feelings against that sort of thing. I most certainly wouldn't do it to make money. If you look at my blog you'll see that all of my work is my own. I constantly show WIP pics to demonstrate how I approach each model. Using another model as a base from which to model my own made it easier than starting completely from scratch using picture reference.

I'm also a member at various papermodelling forums, that's how I first learned how to do this. I designed papermodels before doing costume stuff. Go to Zealot, cardmodels forum and look me up, I have the same username there. Again, you'll find many projects there and progress pics showing my work started from the beginning to the end. Clearly proving that I am capable of doing this without cheating.

I have no idea who this Emilio is buddy but trust me, this is not his work. There are many people here who can vouch for me and my integrity. ;)

I see you don't post here often so maybe you haven't seen my other threads here so I'll try not to be offended at what you're suggesting. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skupilkinson

Sorry? Emilio??

I know all about the 3D world my friend being a member of various forums. Though I don't really visit them these days, too busy with my own projects.

I was sent a 3D model by some via email who asked if I could use the model to make armor templates. I looked at the model but it was far too high poly to be used as it was, plus it wasn't my work to begin with. So I used the model as a template if you like to model my own from scratch. Closely following the original model, yet modelling my own, more simplified version over it. Deleting the original model as I went. I posted this on my blog days ago when I first mentioned the project. I don't take other peoples work and try to pass it off as my own, in fact I have strong feelings against that sort of thing. I most certainly wouldn't do it to make money. If you look at my blog you'll see that all of my work is my own. I constantly show WIP pics to demonstrate how I approach each model. Using another model as a base from which to model my own made it easier than starting completely from scratch using picture reference.

I'm also a member at various papermodelling forums, that's how I first learned how to do this. I designed papermodels before doing costume stuff. Go to Zealot, cardmodels forum and look me up, I have the same username there. Again, you'll find many projects there and progress pics showing my work started from the beginning to the end. Clearly proving that I am capable of doing this without cheating.

I have no idea who this Emilio is buddy but trust me, this is not his work. There are many people here who can vouch for me and my integrity. ;)

I see you don't post here often so maybe you haven't seen my other threads here so I'll try not to be offended at what you're suggesting. ;)

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I guess. I was mistaken based on my number of posts you must not have gotten this from someone in not the origional author.:? What does posting count have to do with you taking a model. Changing it and calling it your own. You stated in your blog that
"Skip said...

Thanks alot bro. Yeah, I was lucky enough to be sent a good model that served as the base for this. Remodelling it was much easier than trying to do it from scratch."

I don't want this to turn into a "Thing" but words like "Buddy" and "my Friend" don't do justice to your cause.
Fact-This model wan not modeled by you. maybe changed a bit but not modeled by you.
Fact- The gentleman that made the model's name is Emilio Lorenzo-That is not your name
Fact- if you contacted him, he would have said "Go ahead" I'm sure.

Fact-The elbows are not accurate by any-means and coincidentally yours are the same -Wire for wire,Vertex for Vertex.

Many people have used his model for exactly what you are doing. None have tried to make money without asking for permission(and in some cases compensating him accordingly)

And on a complementary note. your work in the "card stock" field is amazing. No one is saying your not capable of doing this kind of work. I have seen your work many times. Truly exquisite, I would not taint it by pulling something like this.

You're twisting my words slightly there. Using a quote to imply that I've admitted to ripping off some elses work. That's bad form.

Yes, I said that. However I also said it here in my last post. I've admitted to using another model as a base, a template from which to model my own. I've said that already. In the quote you used I said, "Easier than trying to do it from scratch." I was referring to modelling it completely from scratch using only picture reference. I was not implying that I used the original model and "tweaked" it. I followed alot of the original wireframe, though reduced the number of faces as I went to make it more suitable for this purpose. So it's no wonder that both models are very similar, however they are not exactly the same at all.

I call everyone buddy. :) It's just a figure of speech, nothing more.

I never claimed to be Emilio Lorenzo, I had no idea he modelled the original model. If I had he'd have been credited for his original work. The model is NOT excactly the same at all. I went to extreme measures to avoid copying the model point by point, "wire for wire, vertex for vertex". Look at them both. Mine has a considerably lower poly count, The ab plate is different and extended to cover the belly rather than using a belt like the original model, I have a lower back plate, the original model I was sent did not, the back plate has no raised collar like the original, I modelled belt pouches unlike the original I recieved. If you were to be able to see closer you'll see just how different mine is in the details. Mine is much more simplified as I said before.

The elbows are practically identical as I was modelling using ONLY the original model as reference as it seemed very accurate to me when I first looked at it.

I can't stress enough how much I am not ripping off someone elses work. I have never done that and have even helped to stop that kind of thing. I did not want to get into a long debate over this, only to say that you were mistaken.

Bottom line is:

Yes, I used another 3D model as my main source of reference. No, I did NOT use it in an attempt to pass it off as my own.

If you choose not to believe me then that's fine. I don't think there's anything else I can say about the matter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skupilkinson

You're twisting my words slightly there. Using a quote to imply that I've admitted to ripping off some elses work. That's bad form.

Yes, I said that. However I also said it here in my last post. I've admitted to using another model as a base, a template from which to model my own. I've said that already. In the quote you used I said, "Easier than trying to do it from scratch." I was referring to modelling it completely from scratch using only picture reference. I was not implying that I used the original model and "tweaked" it. I followed alot of the original wireframe, though reduced the number of faces as I went to make it more suitable for this purpose. So it's no wonder that both models are very similar, however they are not exactly the same at all.

I call everyone buddy. :) It's just a figure of speech, nothing more.

I never claimed to be Emilio Lorenzo, I had no idea he modelled the original model. If I had he'd have been credited for his original work. The model is NOT excactly the same at all. I went to extreme measures to avoid copying the model point by point, "wire for wire, vertex for vertex". Look at them both. Mine has a considerably lower poly count, The ab plate is different and extended to cover the belly rather than using a belt like the original model, I have a lower back plate, the original model I was sent did not, the back plate has no raised collar like the original, I modelled belt pouches unlike the original I recieved. If you were to be able to see closer you'll see just how different mine is in the details. Mine is much more simplified as I said before.

The elbows are practically identical as I was modelling using ONLY the original model as reference as it seemed very accurate to me when I first looked at it.

I can't stress enough how much I am not ripping off someone elses work. I have never done that and have even helped to stop that kind of thing. I did not want to get into a long debate over this, only to say that you were mistaken.

Bottom line is:

Yes, I used another 3D model as my main source of reference. No, I did NOT use it in an attempt to pass it off as my own.

If you choose not to believe me then that's fine. I don't think there's anything else I can say about the matter.

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I laid your chest(From your blog image) over his epII chest and with the exception you omitted the backkfaces, and cleaned up the excess "Meshsmooth" vertexes, it lays wire for wire and vertex for vertex from the groove in the center to the armpit. If you a willing to post a high res pic of the pink wire framed model(From your blog), I am will to discredit you in high res. I have no wish(nor did I begin with the wish) get into a war with you I just think your not giving enough credit to the original model that exists inside your model. Moving a couple of vertexes,Deleting back faces, and refacing some things, does not constitute using the original model as a reference. It is cleaning up Emilio's model and turning it into a Pep model(Not a trivial task either, as you know)

It is no different than taking a 3dscanner to a helmet and saying its an orional mold made by you. You still have to clean it up to make the rapidprototype. but it doesn't mean you made it, you just converted it

I can't give proper credit to someone if I had no idea who they were. I told you I was sent this by another person and they told me they had no idea who it belonged to.

I've admitted to using his model as the base. It seems that no matter what I say you just take it as another log to the fire. Perhaps if this thread is closed it would be for the best. It's no longer serving a purpose other than to encourage you to continue trying to dirty my name.

aaaaaaaand we have our first fight in the clone section. i'm impressd that it took this long.

Reading through this, I am not sure why there is an issue... Skupilkinson said he created his model (sorry, all that tech-jargon is over my head) based heavily on a model he was given, but didn't have the name of the original model creator. Apparently, ZeroVisibilite knows the original model designer, Emilio Lorenzo. So, I guess the question is, does Emilio care that the work Skupilkinson has done is in some way a derivative of his work? It doesn't seem that Skupilkinson was trying to hide anything, but simply didn't know the original modeller and I would assume he would now be willing to give Emilio credit for the base model, yes? If so, is there still an issue? Just my thoughts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ART ANDREWS

Reading through this, I am not sure why there is an issue... Skupilkinson said he created his model (sorry, all that tech-jargon is over my head) based heavily on a model he was given, but didn't have the name of the original model creator. Apparently, ZeroVisibilite knows the original model designer, Emilio Lorenzo. So, I guess the question is, does Emilio care that the work Skupilkinson has done is in some way a derivative of his work? It doesn't seem that Skupilkinson was trying to hide anything, but simply didn't know the original modeler and I would assume he would now be willing to give Emilio credit for the base model, yes? If so, is there still an issue? Just my thoughts.

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Exactly! :thumbsup
Skip is a stand up guy and has done some great stuff for the DIY Fett...

Things like this happen allot on 'other' forums and if it's starting to happen here on the TDH then I'm being turned off by the whole thing. :doh

Thanks for the support Mojo! :) It's good to have it.

Art, That's the way I see it. I don't think I've done anything wrong here. Had I known that Emilio Lorenzo was the original creator then he would of course have been credited for the original model. I've tried to hide nothing from you guys.

Lets not minsce words here.
"based" is not what this is. This is the origional model is still there just sanded.
I don't know why character references are even being given. Nobody said Skip wasn't a" Stand up Guy" or that he intentionally did anything. But before I made light of this. Everyone who posted above and has seen his blog was under the assumption that "HE" not Emilio made the model he is using. Nobody said he couldn't use it. I don't have permission to say one way or another if he can or cannot. I am saying if your going to try to make money, which was the original concept then you better let the guy who made it know.

"Skupilkinson said he created his model (sorry, all that tech-jargon is over my head) based heavily on a model he was given"
He didn't Base it, It wasn't inspired by, it wasn't even modeled after. It was a polygon slim down to make it easier to unfold. Not a remodel. When the final model started was it a blank screen? NOPE. it was Emilio's model and Skip deleted from and added to. It's no different than using a Fang helmet as a Base to fix something you don't like about it(Lets say the ears) then casting the whole darn thing and saying you "based" the helmet or Derived it from a Fang helmet
I guess it only matters if the DIY community gets what they want. not if its stolen work or recast or illicitly gotten

I don't think this is a clone issue, but if the best people have to offer is snide comments about the mentality of certain groups then the clone forum wont be the end of this board its the existing people that click together without even thinking of the reason why there doing it.:(


Oh whel

ZeroVisibilite, I certainly don't want to become the arbitrator of this issue, but I see your point very clearly. This is one of those areas that some people would consider grey, but I think your analogy of reworking a Sgt Fang is pretty applicable in this situation. The ultimate answer is, if you don't know the source of a work and can't get permission to use it, then don't use it. I am sure some of this will come down to whether this is, as you say, a rework instead of a "based on" effort. Some would even say you shouldn't "base" your work on someone else's. Tough call and a source for where we see a lot of accusations of recasting come from. This seems like a very unfortunate situation and while I am no judge, I would think the best course of action at this point, would be to contact the original creator of the model and see if he is ok with what is being done. I know it is after-the-fact, but it is better than nothing and will help keep there from being a shadow on this work. Again, just my thoughts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ART ANDREWS

ZeroVisibilite, I certainly don't want to become the arbitrator of this issue, but I see your point very clearly. This is one of those areas that some people would consider grey, but I think your analogy of reworking a Sgt Fang is pretty applicable in this situation. The ultimate answer is, if you don't know the source of a work and can't get permission to use it, then don't use it. I am sure some of this will come down to whether this is, as you say, a rework instead of a "based on" effort. Some would even say you shouldn't "base" your work on someone else's. Tough call and a source for where we see a lot of accusations of recasting come from. This seems like a very unfortunate situation and while I am no judge, I would think the best course of action at this point, would be to contact the original creator of the model and see if he is ok with what is being done. I know it is after-the-fact, but it is better than nothing and will help keep there from being a shadow on this work. Again, just my thoughts.

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That's what I said in the beginning.
I think it escalated way past that when it became a who has the ability to catch me. The 3d world is very small. and tricks to catch people doing this exact thing have been around for aslong as CG has. Denying that the original model is still there, was and still is the biggest mistake you could make for your character. Lining up polygons are not that hard. when one lines up they all disappear with the exception of whats been changed

I really don't care if you used it. Again I don't have the right to say you can or can't. I just said you should have asked him.

Like another spat here all the sideliners get involved and "Pump" from the crowd and before you know it, it escalates. People say they don't want it. but they sure are right there to post when it happens. All together in one group ,safety in numbers, like hyenas. Boy you don't want to get on anyones bad side here huh. Kinda wonder why I've been here for 4 years, read every post and have only accrued 47 posts. If you speak people jump down you throat with stupid comments that add nothing to the table just a higher post count. It is a joke and has been this way for along time.

Everyone keep on jacking the post count with nonsense and claim to have the community in there best interest but posts don't pay the bills do they

I think it is unfortunate that you have such a negative view of TDH and I guess everyone's experience varies, but I would argue here, you are seeing at least one old-timer, in agreement with what you are saying in principle. I can't apply it directly to situation, only because right now it is a he said - she said issue, where one is saying this is a recreation and the other is saying this is a rework of an existing creation. I agree that in this hobby (not just this board) there is a general turning a blind eye to underhandedness when someone is making something others wants. However, I will be the first to say that if this is as you say, a rework of an existing work, and permission can't be attained, it should be abandoned. I am not the law, but there is an opinion that has nothing to do with post count or me wanting something.

While you are making good points, some of the snide comments and jabs aren't helping your argument...

Perhaps then this disagreement should be taken to PM rather than airing it in an open thread where people are fully entitled to express their opinions?

I tend to agree with HH on this.

At this point in the conversation, I (and I'm sure others) don't really care one way or the other where Skip's model came from or where it's heading. I'm just tired of seeing people argue like two year olds in a public forum.

If you think he did something wrong, tell him. In PRIVATE, and stop making snide comments about the community in general. It's immature and useless.

Talking in private allows you both to plead your cases, say whatever the heck you want and settle it that way. If you still think he's doing something unethical after that, let us know. Calmly and maturely. If people don't respond to that or take issue with it, well you've done your duty and you can walk away from it knowing that without debasing yourself to juvenile remarks.

It also helps prevent locked threads :thumbsup

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ART ANDREWS

I think it is unfortunate that you have such a negative view of TDH and I guess everyone's experience varies, but I would argue here, you are seeing at least one old-timer, in agreement with what you are saying in principle. I can't apply it directly to situation, only because right now it is a he said - she said issue, where one is saying this is a recreation and the other is saying this is a rework of an existing creation. I agree that in this hobby (not just this board) there is a general turning a blind eye to underhandedness when someone is making something others wants. However, I will be the first to say that if this is as you say, a rework of an existing work, and permission can't be attained, it should be abandoned. I am not the law, but there is an opinion that has nothing to do with post count or me wanting something.

While you are making good points, some of the snide comments and jabs aren't helping your argument...

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I don't have a negative view of TDH. It is the first forum I started with and I love it. I don't like the fact that when 2 adults have a conversation everybody that gets involved has something to say about a technical conversation that always end in a "I want it for cheaper, or free" who cares how it came to life.

I understand that everybody is entitled to their opinions in open forum but this is not a matter of opinion. this is a matter of fact. the model he used is not his, he lays claim to it. Led people to believe it was his and in fact it was not. It's not like I asked him to change the color of the model because I didn't like it. I wasn't even aggressive with my first post. I simply was offering some advice on handling a touchy issue with people that aren't so kind when it comes to this kind of thing.

Nyx Mandalore under your rational all comments should be made in PM form so people do not have to be exposed to reality as long as the dirty work is done behind closed doors the forum will benifit from the work of one.This model is in fact (At this point) stolen. And if you don't care and I'm sure others don't then why get involved.

Art however does seam to care about the bottom of this therefore his opinion is relevant and pertinent to the conversation.

I can in fact show his wireframe picture overlaid the original model and it does match line for line curve for curve vertex for vertex. I have not done this because I was giving Skip the opportunity to contact the original modeler and let him know what was up (As stated in my first post). I overlaid the model before I even posted the first post so I was sure my facts were correct. And again I wasn't aggressive at all to begin with.It seams the problem with not reading the whole post is that we end up in this situation where the original goal is lost and it then (only after a slew of irrelevant posts) turns into an obnoxious attack of one party or a group. Seams this has happened quite a few times in the last couple months again always ending in a ban or a locked topic. This is not my goal. I would like Skip to continue what he is doing. I only wanted him to know that, Before it was to late, he should contact the origional artist. I make models to use as ref for scaling and the likes all the time.
Some of you have received models from me that i have made or received. I always ask before I use a ref pic or measure something from a hard copy of someones work. if they say no then I find a different ref. If they say yes then I post a thanks to that person when the project is complete. Sometimes depending on there involvement I send a finished part to them so they can see there object in reality. But that's just what I do. I don't expect people to do the same in that area. It is a matter of personal respect.
What I do take issue with is if someone claims work that is not theirs. Bottom line

I bet if someone grabbed Allen's(WOF) helmet templates and was selling them on e-bay there would be a big deal about it. even if the work was coming in the form a scaled templates not just a PDF. Heck there was even a topic about another forum linking to TDH pages to give them out.
I used his tempates to make my daughters Fett stuff and refuse to sell even the original because of it.

And I will tell you another thing. If I offer something for free and someone make $$$ off of it you can bet the next time I send it out(if there is a next time) its gonna cost. Just like what happened to Skip when his stuff popped up on e-bay. Now he charges.
You want frees stuff. I can cast any FP part or Fang helmet and mail them free of charge, doesn't make it OK just makes it free. That was sarcasm I have no intentions of recasting anyone's stuff. don't flood my inbox

enough said, I feel it has been beaten to a pulp If anyone wants to see the overlay I will post it. If noone cares then go back to sleep and dont lend another thought to where the free stuff comes from.

I don't care who made the model, I just want to try and build it...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZeroVisibilite

Nyx Mandalore under your rational all comments should be made in PM form so people do not have to be exposed to reality as long as the dirty work is done behind closed doors the forum will benifit from the work of one.This model is in fact (At this point) stolen. And if you don't care and I'm sure others don't then why get involved.

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I was not at all stating that I condoned the theft of someone else's work. I was saying I don't care about the model at all at the moment because I am too distracted with yet another flame-fest in the forums. What I was saying is that I am tired of juvenile name-calling and disputes in the public forum. I would prefer that you take your contentions with him up in private, and if he is not receptive or you feel he is still being unethical, that you then bring them up to us all in a calm, mature manner.

We should all be warned and aware of theft. We should not all have to watch you and he try to exchange witty barbs and argue in a forum that is intended to be constructive and friendly.

And that, sir, I do care about.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wildabeast

I don't care who made the model, I just want to try and build it...

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Guess that about sums it up

"I would prefer that you take your contentions with him up in private"

And I would prefer not to. It is not you to decied how this was handled. you may not like the way I handled it and I don't like paying taxes. Iguess we will both sleep well at night knowing we had such an impact on the others lives.
I don't believe anyone has called anyone a name or has said anything to the nature until phrases like juvenile and flame and bickering which are words designed to strike an emotional reaction in a logical discussion. no better than flaming someone about misspelling a word when you cant get one up. this was a technical discussion until the likes of these types of comments. adding emotion to fact just screws things up, as you have just seen

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r...eTheLock-1.gif

:D

ok so the argument needs to stop,nobody cares and if it REALLY bothers you that friggin much zero why dont you send your friend an email with the link and let him talk for himself bout wether he cares or not,honestly i dont think its really all that important seeing as how your basically saying skip is guilty of stealing an idea when ALL clone and most mando armors are the idealogical property of whomever holds the copyrights to them and yes we may give them credit but how many of us have asked for permiision from their creator to use there ideas and designs? thats all i got to say for it as of now.

so lets end the argument,flame war,whatever you want to call it and move on to what we all really are hear for,the kick shebs awsomeness of SW and probmaking!

I understand the underlying argument, but the argument should beone of that model isnt anywhere near accurate, so what is trying to be accomplished?

It's slightly different than that Cod'ika. Basicly, he's claiming I stole a 3D model and used directly for the templates I'm trying to create.

He's on the right track as I've already said, I did use a 3D model that was sent to me by someone via email. That person said if I remember rightly that the original creator wanted to remain anonomous. I was foolish enough to ask no more questions.

However, I promise you all that every original face(you see them as squares in the picture) was deleted as I modeled new ones. I quess I was a little lazy during the modelling phase as I did follow alot of the original wireframe. Hence the striking similarity between the two models. However, I did not steal anyones work in the way he's describing. That's taking it too far. Also, I most certainly do NOT lay claim to the original model, only to the work I did to make my own.

If Zero wants to post the picture of his overlay then he can. It will indeed show similarities between the two models. I've never denied that or said that mine is totally different. Only that I used Emilios 3D model to base my own off of. It's something that I'll never do again as this thread has become a lesson to me. When you use someone else' work in the way I have it stops you from being the sole creator, it stops your own individual style from showing through.

Zero, if you want to PM me with private comments or even a contact address for Emilio then I'd appreciate it. It would be useless for us to continue this if it turned out that Emilio didn't even mind the way in which I've used his model. So I'd appreciate the opportunity to speak to him myself regarding this.

Also, now that I know who the original creator of the original 3D model is I'd gladly give them the credit they most certainly deserve. I'll edit the post in my blog later to acknowledge him.

You have to realise that without knowing who created the original model it would have been very difficult to give them credit. I thought I was doing right by admitting from the start that I used another 3D model to kickstart this project. I was not claiming the original work was mine now was I?? I think not.

I'm glad you know of what happened to my work last year too. Maybe you understand now that I would not knowingly rip off others work when it has happened to me in the past. I have told you that I have strong feelings about this practice. Also, that was why I chose to sell my work. Not to make money, but to try and limit how people obtained my files to begin with. My blog has grown since then and I do make some money from what I do through sales and commissions but it is not why I do it.

I'd like nothing more than to draw a line here and end this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CGClone

I understand the underlying argument, but the argument should beone of that model isnt anywhere near accurate, so what is trying to be accomplished?

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Very good point also. Along those lines it wont fit a human anyway. I wanted to stay away from that point but since it was brought up the final product would not be acceptable for any of the standard set by the current clone groups

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skupilkinson

It's slightly different than that Cod'ika. Basicly, he's claiming I stole a 3D model and used directly for the templates I'm trying to create.

He's on the right track as I've already said, I did use a 3D model that was sent to me by someone via email. That person said if I remember rightly that the original creator wanted to remain anonomous. I was foolish enough to ask no more questions.

However, I promise you all that every original face(you see them as squares in the picture) was deleted as I modeled new ones. I quess I was a little lazy during the modelling phase as I did follow alot of the original wireframe. Hence the striking similarity between the two models. However, I did not steal anyones work in the way he's describing. That's taking it too far. Also, I most certainly do NOT lay claim to the original model, only to the work I did to make my own.

If Zero wants to post the picture of his overlay then he can. It will indeed show similarities between the two models. I've never denied that or said that mine is totally different. Only that I used Emilios 3D model to base my own off of. It's something that I'll never do again as this thread has become a lesson to me. When you use someone else' work in the way I have it stops you from being the sole creator, it stops your own individual style from showing through.

Zero, if you want to PM me with private comments or even a contact address for Emilio then I'd appreciate it. It would be useless for us to continue this if it turned out that Emilio didn't even mind the way in which I've used his model. So I'd appreciate the opportunity to speak to him myself regarding this.

Also, now that I know who the original creator of the original 3D model is I'd gladly give them the credit they most certainly deserve. I'll edit the post in my blog later to acknowledge him.

You have to realise that without knowing who created the original model it would have been very difficult to give them credit. I thought I was doing right by admitting from the start that I used another 3D model to kickstart this project. I was not claiming the original work was mine now was I?? I think not.

I'm glad you know of what happened to my work last year too. Maybe you understand now that I would not knowingly rip off others work when it has happened to me in the past. I have told you that I have strong feelings about this practice. Also, that was why I chose to sell my work. Not to make money, but to try and limit how people obtained my files to begin with. My blog has grown since then and I do make some money from what I do through sales and commissions but it is not why I do it.

I'd like nothing more than to draw a line here and end this.

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I have followed your work from the very first post. The original comment I made was more of a protectorate than an antagonist. I never tried to discredit any of your work or even the skill that its takes to lower a poly count on an existing model. The work that goes into a Pep model is nothing less than astounding. I am sure all of this can and will be set aside. :cheers
Had this thread not acquired the lynch mod that it so frequently does it would have been cleaned up alot earlier. This post very quickly spun from constructive to destructive not by anything that was said by yourself or myself. I feel that when things like this happen the sides are drawn and regaurdless of the origional point it becomes a petty flame war. Which I did none of the sort, at least to you and hope you are not offended by anything I may have been trying to point out.

To all else(with exception). Keep it up. You are doing the thing you complain so much about then wonder why people get upset and bail out. The rest of us don't wonder, we just wonder what took so long for it to happen.

i have to agree there,lines do always seemto be drawn but i guess that how things are:doh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CGClone

I understand the underlying argument, but the argument should beone of that model isnt anywhere near accurate, so what is trying to be accomplished?

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Well that's another aguement completely. :) True, tis may well not be 501st acceptable when built and finished. However, that was not the objective. Some people want to have the costumes without the higher price tag that goes with them. Especially if they aren't interested in being in the 501st or any other group.

This was just a way for others to make their own armor and be able to dress as a clone.

It will also undoubtably need tweaking here and there to fit individual people as we're all different builds and heights but that's no different to the armor kits that we can buy these days.

Zero, I don't quite understand what this quote is meant to mean buddy??
"You are doing the thing you complain so much about then wonder why people get upset and bail out. The rest of us don't wonder, we just wonder what took so long for it to happen"

I'm glad that we may have reached an agreement on this and can now talk here and enjoy the forum and discussions?? :)

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Originally Posted by ZeroVisibilite

Guess that about sums it up

"I would prefer that you take your contentions with him up in private"

And I would prefer not to. It is not you to decied how this was handled. you may not like the way I handled it and I don't like paying taxes. Iguess we will both sleep well at night knowing we had such an impact on the others lives.
I don't believe anyone has called anyone a name or has said anything to the nature until phrases like juvenile and flame and bickering which are words designed to strike an emotional reaction in a logical discussion. no better than flaming someone about misspelling a word when you cant get one up. this was a technical discussion until the likes of these types of comments. adding emotion to fact just screws things up, as you have just seen

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If you are incapable of seeing that rudeness and name-calling (such as referring to the community as a pack of hyenas) in a public forum are immature and unprofitable ways to resolve an issue, then so be it.

Despite coming under fire, Skip has remained gracious and polite throughout this exchange and in point of fact has even come to see it your way.

Perhaps if you had spoken to him privately, you could have accomplished the same without the need to air your angst for all to see.

But as you so ably point out, it's not for me to decide how you resolve your quibbles.

That is all I'll say as the issue has been resolved.

Guys come on. :) I feel responsible for this now.

I do see how Zeros comments may have offended but to be honest after reading this through with a clearer head I can see that his intentions were good. His heart is in the right place so to speak. He feel passionate about something here, and that is he's speaking out about peoples work being ripped off. Although that's not how I look at what I've done, he did and wanted to do something about it. Someone like that is a credit to this community where we see recasts often.

I know if it were my work being ripped off as it has in the past I'd be happy to have someone like this with the vigilance he has, on my side.

Let's put an end to this before it continues and we all forget what we even got all fired up over?

Vode an!!!! ;)

"Zero, I don't quite understand what this quote is meant to mean buddy??
"You are doing the thing you complain so much about then wonder why people get upset and bail out. The rest of us don't wonder, we just wonder what took so long for it to happen""
Was not meant towards you. It was meant as a general statement to the people that decided there involvement was needed. It doesn't take much see a constructive post versus one that if it was deleted the Topic would still have the same outcome. I will call them "The Pumping Posts" posts that offer nothing but to fuel a war, similar to the dog kickers in a Pit Bull fight, two dogs wont fight unless they are provoked. This debate was of a technical nature with little or no room for escalation but it still manages to get there somehow.

I am glad you see my intentions. I would defend anyone's work the same way, and have in the past, on many different forums.

Ok, Well I'm here if you want to send a PM with contact details for Emilio??

You know.. for our first "clone fight" I think this has been handled pretty darn well! I have to applaud both Skupilkinson and ZeroVisibilite for remaining fairly calm cool and collected under some heavy fire. I do have to address a rather disturbing issue though... The drive-by comments thrown out by some in this thread are pretty deplorable. I think most of you who made comments like "we don't care where it came from" will find that this kind of attitude doesn't fly very well here at TDH. It DOES matter where something comes from. Based on Skupilkinson's comments, I genuinely don't think he meant harm and this thread has helped him come to realize the issues associated with such things. However, for the rest who feel that "by whatever means necessary" I can only shake my head and hope you will see that this is an attitude that only leads to chaos.

Good points Art, I apologize openly if my accuracy comment came off rough. I am sorry for that. Not good on my part.

Rough? A little deconstructive maybe. ;) Forget it though.

Hmmm I had a bash at this myself a while back. (based on my own 3d work and ILM model sheets)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4.../ShinStart.jpg


( I know, I know, clones don't have heels... and there should be ankle discs.... Im a noob, what are you going to do? :P)

Not a bad start. ;) Did you ever see it through?

Nope :P for now I'm sticking to helmet sculpting. I'm still slowly chipping away at modelling the entire suit though
(ignore the helmet, its a stand in, the picture is really old, the only part that is anywhere near done is the front torso plate)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...cs/cln1wip.jpg

Nice job there. ;) Should have modelled mine from scratch now. :) Is that a Halo ODST lid??

Yeah, it's one I did for sci-fire/LegendaryArmor. It's a very old render, from before I'd modelled any clone helmets to put with it, it looked weird headless.

i acctually saw a custom airborne storm trooper figure that they put an ODST helmet on...called it a halo trooper lol

its awsome!

oh dude skip that clone file that you modified and perfected (see what i did there LOL XD) is incredible! some of your best work!

Thanks alot buddy. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ART ANDREWS

You know.. for our first "clone fight" I think this has been handled pretty darn well! I have to applaud both Skupilkinson and ZeroVisibilite for remaining fairly calm cool and collected under some heavy fire. I do have to address a rather disturbing issue though... The drive-by comments thrown out by some in this thread are pretty deplorable. I think most of you who made comments like "we don't care where it came from" will find that this kind of attitude doesn't fly very well here at TDH. It DOES matter where something comes from. Based on Skupilkinson's comments, I genuinely don't think he meant harm and this thread has helped him come to realize the issues associated with such things. However, for the rest who feel that "by whatever means necessary" I can only shake my head and hope you will see that this is an attitude that only leads to chaos.

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Art, as part of this was directed at me, let me clarify. I do care if it is recast, stolen, or the like. Seeing as my complete Jaster Mereel is scratch build from WOF's templates I take pride in my own work. I guess I got over zealous in anticpation that I could do a scratch build clone in the future. I am really looking forward to these templates, but not at the cost of them coming from an uncredited or unathorized source.

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Originally Posted by Cod'ika

ok so the argument needs to stop,nobody cares and if it REALLY bothers you that friggin much zero why dont you send your friend an email with the link and let him talk for himself bout wether he cares or not,honestly i dont think its really all that important seeing as how your basically saying skip is guilty of stealing an idea when ALL clone and most mando armors are the idealogical property of whomever holds the copyrights to them and yes we may give them credit but how many of us have asked for permiision from their creator to use there ideas and designs? thats all i got to say for it as of now.

so lets end the argument,flame war,whatever you want to call it and move on to what we all really are hear for,the kick shebs awsomeness of SW and probmaking!

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Someone needs to read the whole thread from the beginning, the two parties have every right to discuss there gripe as long as it stays civilized.

Guys, the fight/discussion ended a week ago. Let's move on eh? ;)

Nice work Skip and nzjedi... How is going the unfolding?

Looks great!!!

I'm looking forward to some clone trooper templates. :) I'm a scratch-builder and enjoy the challenges.

Keep up the good work Skup! :thumbsup Can't wait to see these developed.

Thanks alot guys. As for ufolding, I'm not. I'm sure I posted this here before but I'm taking this one back to scratch. As the priginal model wasn't my work I can't be sure of the proportions or accuracy so I'm starting over with it and doing it all myself.

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I'm taking this one back to scratch... I can't be sure of the proportions or accuracy so I'm starting over with it and doing it all myself.

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Good to hear, that model you were using was dismally inaccurate. Even as a base to work from, I think you'd have better luck trying to convert an FX stormtrooper to a clone.

LOL! Well I'm not working on it right now as I have some commissions to do but in the next few days I should be starting with this armor again.

just a thought.. if clones are fighting then it is clone wars..
what if it is mercs?
just a bar room brawl then?

Glad too see it ended bloodlessly :)

nzjedi.. care to come over my way and help me do the torso for my clone trooper?.. trying to fit it by myself kinda sucks the mighty kumara.

Nice work there Skupilkinson :)

Mate, if you're near dunners I'll gladly give you a hand :) If not there's bound to be someone in the NZ garrison near you. Are you on the op42 forum? It's small group but, in my experience everyone is cool and keen to help each other.

dang.. wrong end of the country... i guess im gunna have to smack my brother around until he agrees too help me..lol
off too op42 i go..

Skip, How do i buy the clone armor pep files? how much would they be?