Scratch building the AOTC helmet.

Would anyone here be interested in attempting to scratch build an EpII helmet from scratch?

Of all the helmets I have seen come down the pike, only the efx helmet seems close enough, but then not completly close. You know what I mean; it's missing it's bottom. I really feel it needs to be there, the bottom, that is.

The reason that companies like efx leave them off, is to be wearable. The majority of people who buy their product, would like to be able to put the helmet on. That is hard to do with the neck ring.

How many people here are like me and want the whole enchilada: Accurate to digital model, neck ring, tail light, and doesn't pinch the nose? (add to that fiber re-inforcement rather than just resin)

How many people would like Wizard of Flight templates that you can print at home? This helmet can be done in sheet stock very nicely.

I have done this once before, and have never been completely happy with the model that I built in 2003. I have had some practice since then, and I would sure like to see this redone.

Let's kick around some ideas about measurements and geometry. In the sense of uniform discussion, let's name and catalog the details of this helmet.

Start with:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3473/...613e405c_m.jpg

The #1 thing is the brow line. That is the anchor. Above the brow-line: the dome. Below the brow-line: the visor. View the brow from above, and it is a disk.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3386/...0fb44e8c_m.jpg


It is actually an elipse, longer one axis than another. Once cut, it becomes the template for the rest of the helmet build. The dome and visor anchor to the disk.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3406/...c8433507_m.jpg





Here is a list of names that I have come up with so that when anyone refers to a section, everyone else know what they mean, At least I hope it will work that way. Feel free to discuss.

[/img]photo removed for size.

I am open to suggestions as to what to name that little quadrilateral behind the ear.

I think one of the major factors is the chin, its quite misleading to look at and the whole mouth/frown area seems quite flat if you look at it from side on, also getting the lower swoop of the chin right is key I think, I'm excited to see you undertake this project as your EP2 clone helmets are the best there is already, I am no expert but if I can help in anyway then you can count on it

Awesome. I wish I had your skills in working with that foam. This will be a thread to definitely watch. :thumbsup

Will be watching this with great enthusiasm and will be glad to provide any help I can!

Is this a community project or are you building this? Not sure I follow what you are talking about here. Some of my bewilderment is from my encounter with you at C3, but If you are making this available to the entire community then this would indeed be a great project.

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Originally Posted by MORGUE

Is this a community project or are you building this? Not sure I follow what you are talking about here.


Some of my bewilderment is from my encounter with you at C3,


but If you are making this available to the entire community then this would indeed be a great project.

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1. Good question, thank you for asking. I typed that out last night before going to bed, and just re-read it now. It can stand some clarifying. I have already done this project once, and may attempt this again based on information and tecniques learned since. I started this thread to be the first helmet 'building' thread, as opposed to a 'modified,' or "HEAVILY" modified thread. Hopefully, it can be "sticky'd" as a reference for clone helmet building. If enough reference material can be stored here, it can be as useful as many ofther TDH's costuming catagories.

2. Color me bewildered too, as CIII was 4 years ago, and your statement is pretty vague. Feel free to pm me if you wish to remind me.

3. Thank you, "this" can be a great project. By "this," I mean this thread, and yes, it is available to the entire community. Anyone is free to repost it in one of the other clone reference areas of the net. I hope this thread will inspire those to attempt their own versions of this helmet. Please don't get the wrong idea that "this" is a business announcement, for the purpose of contacting a customer base.


Lastly, I tried to do some photoshop work to name all the areas of the helmet. I am not very good at photoshop, so it will take a little longer.

Why do I want to name every single part of the helmet? So that when references are made to any one area, everyone is on the same page.

There are the easy ones like the dome, or the ear, but what about the visor? There is the visor which is the see-thru part, and the visor that is the shield part (cant see-thru)

This great! I will be watching this, and may even take a crack at one! Keep it coming sir!

This is going to be great. The Clonesix helmet was one of the first big undertakings I remember as I got into all of this.

Are there really *no* completely fan sculpted Phase 1 clone helmets? I figured SOMEONE would have done it by now!

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Originally Posted by stormtrooperguy

Are there really *no* completely fan sculpted Phase 1 clone helmets? I figured SOMEONE would have done it by now!

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There are only 3 that I know of, and a few helmets that you find on ebay that don't really count.

If I had the time/work bench space I could possibly help out some more, I've done my best to convert the Hasbro helmet to an Episode 2 clone helmet but there are still many areas that I am unhappy with, what foam is that you are using to carve the dome shape with?

Very cool clonesix.

I've been waiting for you to do this. I remember you once told you that you weren't happy with your earlier version. And you always wanted to redo it, but there was no time.

Can't wait. I've been wanting an accurate helmet since Episod II came out.
:D

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Would anyone here be interested in attempting to scratch build an EpII helmet ..?

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I'm in the process of doing this myself, here's where the project is at while I complete other things, I'm yet to model any of the finer details, and the snout area is a bit of a mess.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...s/ep2WIP-1.jpg
The model is based on machine drawings of the EFX helmet, which according to their PR dept, was based on a character file from ILM so the proportions at least should be correct. One thing I found interesting while modelling this low poly version of the helmet, is that (based on EFX's drawings) the dome isn't hemispherical, it has a rather squashed top, almost like the shape of a grapefruit, but thinner at the sides if you get me.

That looks very nice nzj. It looks to be a very nice representation of the digital model. I hope you dont mind if I use that .jpg for some examples? I still want to post a pic with everything named.

Can something like that be made in Pepakura? That would be a very nice addition to this thread, if there was a pep file available to folks would would like to print one out for themselves and add it to card stock.

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I hope you dont mind if I use that .jpg for some examples?

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Not at all, be my guest :)

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Originally Posted by nzjedi

Not at all, be my guest :)

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OK, I did. I added the pic to the first post.

Here are are the names for helmet are areas. I just realized that this photo is missing a legend for all the numbered ares for the rear of the helmet. See below:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3122/...ca035945_o.jpg
1. Medallion
2. Spinal triangles (or Traingles)
3. Rear Vent
4. Inner hull
5. Outter Hull
6. thingy




I am open to suggestions on #6



After the disk, the ears seem to be the next step. They have some properties that help with other parts of the helmet. The ears are vertical, and horizontally parallel. They are also a clear dividing point between front and back.

So, heres the math so far: The Disk is 8.5" wide. The Ears ar 0.5" wider than the Disk. The widest area of the Outer Hull is 0.5" wider than the Ear. So the widest points of the helmet is roughly 10.5"

wow, this is gonna be a nice tutorial!! keep going on clonesix

I vote for "ear tag" for #6. :)

Yeah! "Ear tag" works well, but I quite like "thingy" too :)

Watching this thread with intrest as I'd love to build my own clone bucket.

How about 'rear lug' for item 6, this will be great :thumbsup

Will this be approximately the same size as your previous clone helmet? I've started modding a Kelloggs helmet, but the more I compare it to actual screen shots, the more I think I would be better off just building one from scratch. I look forward to following this thread. :)

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Originally Posted by Firespray

Will this be approximately the same size as your previous clone helmet? I've started modding a Kelloggs helmet, but the more I compare it to actual screen shots, the more I think I would be better off just building one from scratch. I look forward to following this thread. :)

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Firespray, Yes, you would better off building from scratch. Modifying anything to look like somthing else is just as much work as starting from scratch, or more. I started this thread to provide information to people who get put off buy the "blank slate" syndrome that so many people suffer, so they can get started.

"Blank Slate" sydrome, you ask? It is the anxiety of facing nothing and figuring out how or where to start. Just like every writer hates to see that blank page staring before them, so is the model builder with empty space before him. No one wants to start a long project without some assurance that there will be a payoff in the end.

So I hope those who read this, start to take on the challenge and share their results and techniques with the rest of us.

Ok cool, so what foam is that you use to sculpt with? It seems like a great medium for a project like this, If I could get hold of something like that I would definitely be up for having a good go at sculpting it :thumbsup

I order it locally from a manufacturer, who can cut it any size for me. If you don't have a supplier near you, there is always this place: http://www.vandykestaxidermy.com/sea...olor%5D%5B%5D=

I have never ordered from them, so I can't tell you much about them. I did some calculations and believe they are 6# and 8# density, but don't trust me on that. I would contact them and ask.

I am based in the UK and have just ordered a few sheets of high density blue carving foam to test out, if its any good I will have to sort myself out with some measurements, I have an OSCS episode 3 helmet which will help in terms of scale

Ok, I am going to have a go at this, I don't know how successful I will be but I am going to give it a try, what would help me is if I can nail down certain measurements, as I understand it the MR EP3 clone helmet was scaled up, is this also the case with the EFX EP2 helmet? Under the advice of Jon I am drawing out profile shots of the helmet, these will be my rough guide in my initial carving, wish me luck :thumbsup

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Originally Posted by clonesix

I order it locally from a manufacturer, who can cut it any size for me. If you don't have a supplier near you, there is always this place: http://www.vandykestaxidermy.com/sea...olor%5D%5B%5D=

I have never ordered from them, so I can't tell you much about them. I did some calculations and believe they are 6# and 8# density, but don't trust me on that. I would contact them and ask.

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I've ordered a ton of the stuff from them, all around #4 ~ #6 density and it works great. Carves real easy and takes polyester resin fine. Make sure you own a shop vac to clean up all the dust when you're done! It's extremely messy.

Ok, early days but here's where I am with my first profile shot, I invite any and all critiques as that's the whole point, and yes I know the fin is missing, second pic shows a few minutes later when I had decided the done was too tall, also mocked up a rough fin :thumbsup

it looks to me like the chin sticks too far down... it does dip lower than the back of the helmet, but that seems a bit extreme.

Ok thanks Brian I will go back and re-adjust :thumbsup

Try try again :thumbsup

Here is my drawings done in Illustrator over actual screen grabs. I can email large versions of these to anyone who would like them.

Attachment 32043

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Originally Posted by HeadlessHunter

Try try again :thumbsup

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Even better. Nice drawing.

Here's my obsevation thus far, The cheek triangle look a little curved. My thought on that is that the bottom most leg of the Cheek Triangle should be parallel to the Disk.


Observation #2: For the sake of one's nose, the angle between the face and the disk need to be increased by enough to allow for the distance between your nose and your forehead. This is two fingers for me.

I drew this out on paper a while back, and I made a few notes:


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3321/...6960e40c_o.jpg


The Fin is the same width as Vent. As I labled above, or tried to, the Vent is in a valley, whose lines straight to the fin. I also think it is worthwhile to assign that same width to the Breather Box. I made note to myself that building a spine of the width would be the best anchor to the Disk.

The Cheek Triangle is perpendicular to the Disk. That Can be the anchor between the Disk and the (yet to be labled) Base Curve Disk. The Base Curve Disk will be so useful to the building of the model, that it (rightfully so) deserves its very own code-word-anacronym, so that it can be referred to often.

If you cut any card stock to the exact size of the lowest part of the helmet, the lip before the collar, you would have the Base Curve Disk, semi circle in back, and an parabola in the front. Perfectionist, and you know who we are, will include a square notch in the front to anchor the Breather Box. Although this BCD can be cut flat, when it forms the Base Curve, it distortst the semicircle and the parabola.

This is where the foam blocks come in handy. Place your template onto a 4" block of PU foam . Cut 90 deg. to the edge of the template, and that is the beginning of your Helmet Lip Perimiter. That is a new term the needs to be HLP.

Should I add my new nifty "jargon" to the list ? BCD and HLP Shall now be come part of helmet modeling lingo.

If someone has a hot-wire set up, I envision that cutting a piece of EPS to the profile of the Base Curve, and then turn the hot-wire 90 deg. and cut the semicircle and the parabola.

Please add to things to ponder: The Ears, are the parallel front to back? I think the efx model converges toward the front.

Feel free to discuss.

If some one would show me how to post thumbnails instead 100% , that would be nice.

Ok I think I am understanding what you are saying, and the angle of the cheek line did seem a bit curved to me also, I should stress that the drawing I have done is at half size, I just wanted to get the profile I was happy with before going full size, this is pre-preliminary prep work :lol As far at the ears I agree that they taper from front to back as you look down on the helmet, they are wider at the front

Also I think the 'base curve disk' swoops in a little more at the front of the helmet, beneath the chin as per Firesprays image, thanks for that by the way its a good one

Here's where I am at so far, I elongated the dome slightly, narrowed the visor, added the rear quarter detail, I expect I will make yet more adjustments :thumbsup

Yep, thats looking much nicer. Ilike even better if your drawing to scale, because building it in scale is good practice before commiting 1:1 scale resources to the project. I have built several quick scale models in an evening to test building technicques before going full scale.

My nose will thank you to angle the front more. Anyone who has worn any form of clone helmet, smashes their nose.

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Originally Posted by HeadlessHunter

they are wider at the front

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No, I am saying the opposite, wider in the rear. Take a look at Firespray's drawing above. The front view of the helmet shows the ear faces. This follows that the front of the helmet gets narrower than the round back.

Firespray, your Illustrator version look just like the digital model. I need to get illustrator. Can you generate other views? Top? Rear?

What gave me an idea that they were wider at the front was this shot of the EFX helmet, thanks to Jez at starwarshelmets.com hope you don't mind the use of the image :thumbsup

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Originally Posted by clonesix

Firespray, your Illustrator version look just like the digital model. I need to get illustrator. Can you generate other views? Top? Rear?

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I'll see what I can come up with as far as screen grabs. I believe the Star Wars Chronicles Prequel edition has CG photos of the back view and possibly a top view. I don't recall if it shows the top view but I'm thinking it does. I'll look this evening. If so, I can scan these and draw them as well.

I'm sizing the drawings about the same size as the Kelloggs helmet. Do you think this will be about the right size?

Firespray, if you can size the pictures so that the 'colour band' is 1inch tall then that seems about right to me, based of measurements of my OSCS and Hasbro helmets

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Originally Posted by Firespray

I'll see what I can come up with as far as screen grabs. I believe the Star Wars Chronicles Prequel edition has CG photos of the back view and possibly a top view. I don't recall if it shows the top view but I'm thinking it does. I'll look this evening. If so, I can scan these and draw them as well.

I'm sizing the drawings about the same size as the Kelloggs helmet. Do you think this will be about the right size?

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Rather than a screen grab, can you use Illustrator to draw a plan view using the front and side shots.

I do this faster with pencil, paper, and triangles. It would take me forever on the computer. At the very top of this thread, the first plan view that drew shows an elongated cirlce whose dimensions are the length of the Disk in Side View, and the width of the Disk in Front View.

THat circle has a concentric circle shapes for the Plan View of the Dome on the inner most circular shape, and the BCD on the outside of the Disk.

The other items to add to a Plan View are the Fin, and the ears.

Sorry that this doesn't photograph well, but this is a plan view

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3657/...2e8727de_m.jpg

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Originally Posted by clonesix

Rather than a screen grab, can you use Illustrator to draw a plan view using the front and side shots.

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Yep...that's what I need to do. Even though the drawings I did were drawn over screen grabs, certain parts do not match up from the front to the side view. I illustrated this in the pic below. Note how the front of the fin is lower in the front view than it is in the side view.
Attachment 32053

Something else to note, it looks like the front of the fin tapers in.
Attachment 32054

Awesome job guys! Clonesix, great to see you working on the EpII clones again. Loved your suits at C3!

I'd love to have one of these. Or at least get a file that I can use in Pepakura. That would be awesome, then I could build one for my son and daughter!

Geo

Ok, heres my first full size drawing scaled up and slightly modified from my original sketches, I am aware that the 6 slots are all over the place :lol

that's looking much better. I think the ear can move rearwards a small amount and lengthen the face, but you've got the idea.

Which part of the face do you think needs lengthening because I think between the visor and the mouth could be a little longer, I agree about the ear placement :thumbsup

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Originally Posted by HeadlessHunter

Which part of the face do you think needs lengthening because I think between the visor and the mouth could be a little longer, I agree about the ear placement :thumbsup

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I don't think it needs lengthening vertially at all. Be sure to give yourself room for the neck ring. There is a fixed amount of space between your eyeline, and your shoulder, where the bottom of the collar must clear.

If you move the ear towards the rear, the Thingy (#6) gets smaller fast. Don't let your Thingy disapear .


Assuming 26x22cm for the dimensions of the Disk, can you proportion the ear in the center and draw the Face and Thingy.

Ha ha, I love the terminology, I will try and reposition my thingy in accordance with the ear thingy :lol

Well making these drawings was a little more difficult than I thought it would be. I don't know how accurate these are but take a look at these and let me know your thoughts.

Attachment 32090

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Originally Posted by Firespray

Well making these drawings was a little more difficult than I thought it would be. I don't know how accurate these are but take a look at these and let me know your thoughts.

Attachment 32090

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I think that looks pretty darned good!! :thumbsup

And this is my latest attempt, having moved the ear back slightly

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Originally Posted by Firespray

Well making these drawings was a little more difficult than I thought it would be. I don't know how accurate these are but take a look at these and let me know your thoughts.

Attachment 32090

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Now that's what Willis is talkin' about! Nice job on all the views. Having a good set of drawings will ensure that you start off on the right foot.

Well I've got my foam all glues together, will get some pictures up when I start marking out my marker lines, cant wait :thumbsup

Wow. I haven't been keeping up with this thread very well, but there is some impressive work going on here! Great job C6!

Any progress on the bucket, Clone Six?

I hope there's some update soon I want to try that myself :)

Karin

Updates?

This is NOT a "work in progress" thread. After all, I built this helmet five years ago. The purpose of starting this thread was to provide a resource for those that wish to attempt to construct their own helmet.

As such, I recommended the most important step in building ANYTHING, and that is to have a good set of (1:1) drawings before you start to build! You can see the progress above. There are some nice sets posted here, but I recommend drawing your own.

As you have discovered, there is no more progress beyond that point. If you would like to give it a try, there is plenty of information on this thread to assist. If you have any questions, feel free to post, and I am sur eyou will get a multitude of responses.

Hope to see your work soon.

Can u show us HOW you made the helmets using pics as you go along or something??? I mean.....all of this IS helpful and all, but youhave to show us how to put the parts together and stuff like that. Check out how Antman did his Boba Fett helmet for and idea of what I mean. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Antonio

Can u show us HOW you made the helmets using pics as you go along or something??? I mean.....all of this IS helpful and all, but youhave to show us how to put the parts together and stuff like that. Check out how Antman did his Boba Fett helmet for and idea of what I mean. Thanks!

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er... that's a bit presumptuous, don't you think? he doesn't HAVE to do anything. providing any assistance at all is more than a lot of people would do.

i don't think that this is meant to be a step by step guide as much as a place for ideas / discussion.

imo pointing at another thread and saying "i want something like that" is just rude.

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Originally Posted by Antonio

Can u show us HOW you made the helmets using pics as you go along or something??? I mean.....all of this IS helpful and all, but youhave to show us how to put the parts together and stuff like that. Check out how Antman did his Boba Fett helmet for and idea of what I mean. Thanks!

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Antonio: Welcome to the forum. You can find many valuable pieces of information and a wealth of knowledge in several fields. Not all of them can be found in one thread, but the search button will direct you to most of it.

I know that I personally have posted many progress threads on individual portions of projects, and read many others here. This thread is open to all who want to try and make their own version of the helmet. Not everyone will use the same techniques and materials as Antman, or me, or *.*.com.

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youhave to show us how to put the parts together and stuff like that.

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Your question is pretty broad. Parts? What parts? As far as this thread has gone is 3-view drawings above. There are some good ones up there. There is even another thread in the clone section with a pepakura model.

Where do "Parts" come from? Answer: From the drawings and you.

please don't cut yourself or glue your fingers to the table, but if you do, take pictures.

I haven't made much progress, but will show what I've done so far. From the front and side templates of the dome, I created a framework. You can see the framework on the underside of the dome in the first photo. I filled the framework with expandable foam and finished it off with body filler. It still needs some work. At his point I'm using the Kelleggs helmet as a base knowing full well it will be completely different by the time it's finished, but it helps me to have a starting point. As I build I will continue to refer to my templates and make adjustments as needed. From the templates I also built the fin and a starting point for the ears. None of the pieces are actually attached yet, just set up for the pics.

Attachment 37049

Attachment 37050

Attachment 37051

This thread looks very interesting. I'm tempted to have a go at this. Firespray's images look very accurate, thus are now in my hd for referance.

Very good motivational thread, Colnesix. :thumbsup

wow that looks amazing. what program did you use to map out the helmet in those 3d drawings? did you use inventor 2009?

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Originally Posted by Fett4reaL

wow that looks amazing. what program did you use to map out the helmet in those 3d drawings? did you use inventor 2009?

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I used Adobe Illustrator for my drawings. I placed screen grabs of the front and side of the helmet to use as guides.

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Originally Posted by Firespray

I haven't made much progress, but will show what I've done so far. From the front and side templates of the dome, I created a framework. You can see the framework on the underside of the dome in the first photo. I filled the framework with expandable foam and finished it off with body filler. It still needs some work. At his point I'm using the Kelleggs helmet as a base knowing full well it will be completely different by the time it's finished, but it helps me to have a starting point. As I build I will continue to refer to my templates and make adjustments as needed. From the templates I also built the fin and a starting point for the ears. None of the pieces are actually attached yet, just set up for the pics.

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That looks like progress to me! Beautifully done too. The dome is a crucial part of the model; you've got a great start.

Nearly done with mine, still a bit of work to do on the back, and some general tidying of lines and details etc
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4.../compareAM.jpg
no kellogs/hasbro ect used in these

looking very nice, tim. but you already know that.