However, there's one little thing that people like MR has to factor in that none of the various garage kit makers have to and that's licensing fees. Anything officially licensed will have the cost of the licensing fee factored into the price which means that even if MR could make their stuff as good as yours and for the same cost it would still cost more because they still have to recoup the cost of the licensing fee. Considering that the market for high end replica props & costumes isn't all that large and figuring that licensing fees aren't exactly cheap means that they'll have to factor in a larger percentage of the licensing fee into their prices in order to make up for the lower volume of product. However, this does not excuse the sometimes exorbitant prices that that these companies sometimes charge; the officially licensed (Stargate) zat sold by Lightspeed and later Stargate Props is a perfect example of this. You could get fan made ones for maybe $50 - $75 on the average while the licensed ones would set you back about $300 or so easy and they're no better than most fan made ones and were non-working hunks of resin too; talk about overpriced.
High End Licensed SW Armor / Costumes Coming Soon
- Thread starter jodo
- Start date
However, there's one little thing that people like MR has to factor in that none of the various garage kit makers have to and that's licensing fees. Anything officially licensed will have the cost of the licensing fee factored into the price which means that even if MR could make their stuff as good as yours and for the same cost it would still cost more because they still have to recoup the cost of the licensing fee. Considering that the market for high end replica props & costumes isn't all that large and figuring that licensing fees aren't exactly cheap means that they'll have to factor in a larger percentage of the licensing fee into their prices in order to make up for the lower volume of product. However, this does not excuse the sometimes exorbitant prices that that these companies sometimes charge; the officially licensed (Stargate) zat sold by Lightspeed and later Stargate Props is a perfect example of this. You could get fan made ones for maybe $50 - $75 on the average while the licensed ones would set you back about $300 or so easy and they're no better than most fan made ones and were non-working hunks of resin too; talk about overpriced.
stormtrooperguy
Sr Hunter
There are plenty of us in the 501st that are capable of making a pretty fair judgment on that sort of thing. I mean, there are 4K+ 501st members. And I know they didn't just poll the whole legion
So saying that the whole Legion is incapable of it is a bit unfair. Lots of the RPF folks I see debating TK nuances are Legion members too.
Oh look... we have magically managed to bring the "who can pee farther" contest from the RPF over to TDH! Who cares? Windlass chose to use who they chose to use. Gino, by the time you talked to them, they were already long done with the trooper project, so creating controversy and stirring the pot by attacking those who jumped into it early on is pointless and just antagonistic.
tubachris85x
Well-Known Hunter
Lets keep this civil guys....
Gino
Active Hunter
Let me clarify my comments regarding the 501st.
I did not mean to imply that every single person in the group is completely unknowledgeable so please accept my apologies for being so vague and offending anyone.
Since the greater majority of the 501st focuses on costuming, and not hardcore studying the film props, history, etc.. that makes them by and large not AS knowledgeable. 501st members who do engage in the aspect of long term study of specific props/costumes are a very small minority by comparison.
What I take issue with and what really gets me riled up is that a great deal of people outside of our hobby (and a small amount within) believe that the 501st (as a whole) are the most knowledgeable or 'top experts' when they clearly are not.
I've had multiple non prop people (but still SW collectors) tell this to me, which as you can imagine just made my head want to explode.
In regards to the situation with Windlass, I'm fairly certain that this incorrect perception was what led them to use them as opposed to someone like me, or another hardcore prop person who I feel confident would have (or will have) lead to more accurate product being made available.
Speaking out against that perception is the only way to break the ice in changing the fan community's beliefs about that.
Sorry for the long explaination.
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I did not mean to imply that every single person in the group is completely unknowledgeable so please accept my apologies for being so vague and offending anyone.
Since the greater majority of the 501st focuses on costuming, and not hardcore studying the film props, history, etc.. that makes them by and large not AS knowledgeable. 501st members who do engage in the aspect of long term study of specific props/costumes are a very small minority by comparison.
What I take issue with and what really gets me riled up is that a great deal of people outside of our hobby (and a small amount within) believe that the 501st (as a whole) are the most knowledgeable or 'top experts' when they clearly are not.
I've had multiple non prop people (but still SW collectors) tell this to me, which as you can imagine just made my head want to explode.
In regards to the situation with Windlass, I'm fairly certain that this incorrect perception was what led them to use them as opposed to someone like me, or another hardcore prop person who I feel confident would have (or will have) lead to more accurate product being made available.
Speaking out against that perception is the only way to break the ice in changing the fan community's beliefs about that.
Sorry for the long explaination.
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stormtrooperguy
Sr Hunter
I think the long explanation helped me understand much better, so thanks!
Gino
Active Hunter
Depends on how you define the customer.
Just because the majority of the customers aren't going to know any better doesn't mean that the smaller portion who do shouldn't have product made that will satisfy them as well.
I see it as if you can satisfy the more hardcore, of course the more casual will be satisfied as well. Sometimes, all they need is to be shown.
And from what I've seen over the 16 years I've been in the hobby, that a lot of casual fans in time grow and turn into more accuracy based fans.
I think RPF and TDH are great examples of fans who are in the pool of desiring more accurate stuff.
If you are going to spend $1000+ on a licensed costume, wouldn't you want it to be as close as possible? One day you might become more knowledgeable about the piece you bought and you would want it to hold up to scrutiny, to stand the test of time. You know, a solid investment that won't disappoint with the more you learn about the original.
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Keegan
Active Hunter
I dont think its a pissing contest. More of a whining outlet for those of us who wanted something more from the licensed companies.
I would love it if Gino worked for them.
I am all about a film accurate product and really, its not too much to ask for to get that done; and not any more expensively. Gino could get it done right.
Consider, when MR did the stormtrooper helmet they wanted to do an idealized version. Then they smartened up and went through extensive scanning and casting studying to provide a more accurate "wonky" version. Then they made it out of fiberglass which was just wrong and then they messed up huge amounts of details. Sure, it looks like a stormtrooper, but ask anyone in the trooper world if they would rather have an MR helmet or one of Gino's and I know the answer would always be Gino's. And if you put a Rubies stormtrooper and a Rubies Vader next to Gino's trooper and Vader and asked average fans to choose which looked best? I think a poll would be a fun experiment and again, I am sure would favor Gino's work over Rubies.
Some people are of the opinion that as long as it looks ok, that its good enough. Why not demand more for yourself? I say make it exactly like the movie prop or as close as reasonably possible and see how many people complain. How many are going to say "Its too accurate!" ? There are plenty of idealized things out there already for people who want them. And an average fan doesn’t know the difference. If an average fan ever did become more interested in the real props, wouldn’t he be glad to discover that his licensed replica matches the real prop very closely instead of having to search for something better because his replica is not even close?
Looking back at the MR Fett helmet, its wonky and lopsided because its scanned from the real deal and its absolutely the best helmet any licensed company has made in my opinion. Did anyone complain to MR about it being kept asymmetrical? (Other than the accidental visor warp which shouldn’t have occurred during production) Most people were just happy to have a nice Boba Fett helmet with lights that blinked and a sweet paintjob. But for the ones of us who are really into the way the real props looked, wasnt it nice to know they didnt clean up the scan too much and it retained alot of the original Fett helmet we all love?
Just think of if they scanned all the Boba armor and jet pack the way the PP3 helmet was scanned to make the MR Fett helmet! That alone would be a huge jump up in accuracy from what we currently have.
Anyway I would much rather have somebody like Gino work on these sorts of projects than anyone in the 501st. (no offense guys) His level of study is usually much more intensive than even the best people I know in the 501st. But the other difference is he is very experienced in the production methods for any of the props.
I was initially very excited when I heard that Windlass was going to do full sized props/costumes. I still do have some hope of good things to come from them because those costumes prototypes they showed last year were pretty nice.
But if they promised working closely with the Lucasfilm archives and with the original items but are instead seeking out the 501st for advice... I wonder that they can deliver anything better than what we already have.
Too long rant post over.. Bedtime now.:wacko
I would love it if Gino worked for them.
I am all about a film accurate product and really, its not too much to ask for to get that done; and not any more expensively. Gino could get it done right.
Consider, when MR did the stormtrooper helmet they wanted to do an idealized version. Then they smartened up and went through extensive scanning and casting studying to provide a more accurate "wonky" version. Then they made it out of fiberglass which was just wrong and then they messed up huge amounts of details. Sure, it looks like a stormtrooper, but ask anyone in the trooper world if they would rather have an MR helmet or one of Gino's and I know the answer would always be Gino's. And if you put a Rubies stormtrooper and a Rubies Vader next to Gino's trooper and Vader and asked average fans to choose which looked best? I think a poll would be a fun experiment and again, I am sure would favor Gino's work over Rubies.
Some people are of the opinion that as long as it looks ok, that its good enough. Why not demand more for yourself? I say make it exactly like the movie prop or as close as reasonably possible and see how many people complain. How many are going to say "Its too accurate!" ? There are plenty of idealized things out there already for people who want them. And an average fan doesn’t know the difference. If an average fan ever did become more interested in the real props, wouldn’t he be glad to discover that his licensed replica matches the real prop very closely instead of having to search for something better because his replica is not even close?
Looking back at the MR Fett helmet, its wonky and lopsided because its scanned from the real deal and its absolutely the best helmet any licensed company has made in my opinion. Did anyone complain to MR about it being kept asymmetrical? (Other than the accidental visor warp which shouldn’t have occurred during production) Most people were just happy to have a nice Boba Fett helmet with lights that blinked and a sweet paintjob. But for the ones of us who are really into the way the real props looked, wasnt it nice to know they didnt clean up the scan too much and it retained alot of the original Fett helmet we all love?
Just think of if they scanned all the Boba armor and jet pack the way the PP3 helmet was scanned to make the MR Fett helmet! That alone would be a huge jump up in accuracy from what we currently have.
Anyway I would much rather have somebody like Gino work on these sorts of projects than anyone in the 501st. (no offense guys) His level of study is usually much more intensive than even the best people I know in the 501st. But the other difference is he is very experienced in the production methods for any of the props.
I was initially very excited when I heard that Windlass was going to do full sized props/costumes. I still do have some hope of good things to come from them because those costumes prototypes they showed last year were pretty nice.
But if they promised working closely with the Lucasfilm archives and with the original items but are instead seeking out the 501st for advice... I wonder that they can deliver anything better than what we already have.
Too long rant post over.. Bedtime now.:wacko
Last edited by a moderator:
mandosoldier
Hunter
Even if their stuff IS decent and affordable, do you really believe this will put the 501st out of business? I seriously doubt it. How many of those that buy a set would A. put it permanently on a mannequin for display or B wear it to simply do their own videos or C assuming it'd be acceptable join the 501st and troop. Also if the parts are quality it could mean replacement parts if your preferred supplier's waiting list is too long and you need the part. Also who but the 501st and other SW fan groups are going to come out and troop for charities? I'm betting very few. The 501st, Rebel Legion etc.. will always be in demand. If done well I can see quite a few benefits, especially if they come out with affordable mannequins. On the argument of detail, some really care about the origins of every little part and scratch on the armor, other don't. Some original parts of the costumes made them bulky and a pain to wear. A few of the actors have even said that what we wear is better than what they had in the movies. Using 501st for advice over someone who is more detail oriented, isn't necessarily a bad thing. The company, I assume is going for wearability, which some collector's don't know a whole lot about, such as pinch points etc... I'm not saying Gino wouldn't have been great, but if I'm putting out a product meant for wear and I know of a group of thousands that DO wear the product I'm making, it makes sense I'd go to them. Sure they may not know about every scratch and nut on the suit, but you'll end up selling stuff people will want to wear. instead of making a product that pinches the **** out of you, but looks really nice on a mannequin. Again just my opinion, take it or leave it. Discuss as wanted.
Keegan, the thing is, no project by a major company is a one man show. There were plenty of us involved in the MR helmet project and while it turned out nicely, it still fell well below our expectations, even with our involvement. While Gino does amazing work, adding him to the Windlass mix wouldn't magically make everything they turn out gold. There are just too many other factors that wouldn't be in his control, and to think he or any single individual would have complete control over any project of this nature is only deluding onesself. Do I think Windlass using someone like Gino over a typical 501st member (there are some exception guys in the 501st as far as detail goes, but I think they are the exception) improve the overall accuracy of their projects? Probably. Would it mean they would be perfect or even near perfect? Not a chance... no more than the MR Fett helmet was perfect. There are always too many cooks in the kitchen when it comes to these types projects so there is no clear cut way to win. The fact of the matter is, private creations are always going to be the best and most accurate representations of any costume or prop. While bringing an expert in for a commercial run might raise the bar a bit... that is all it would do... and we would still be left unsatisfied.
papamurf812
Jr Hunter
I may be an amateur and not very experienced on the subject, but I think they should go to the source and just examine the exact props. If they have the license, would it be that hard for Windlass to ask to see some of the exact props? The 501st isn't going to be able to provide even half of what the actual props and costumes can.
Gino
Active Hunter
They do have access to the real props. They are allowed to measure and photograph them, but not make castings from them.
The problem is regardless of having the real items in front of you doesn't mean that you are completely absorbing the info about the item or that it will be replicated correctly.
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The problem is regardless of having the real items in front of you doesn't mean that you are completely absorbing the info about the item or that it will be replicated correctly.
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GCNgamer128
Sr Hunter
Personally, I prefer licensed props to suck hard. If they all started to be FP and BM quality, communities like ours would dwindle. Plus, our store-bought costumes won't have any personal satisfaction in being able to make something you're proud of.
I don't think you have much to worry about. I just can't see something like the Fett suit ever being produced meeting accuracy and profitability criteria... will either be one or the other.
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