GCNgamer128
Sr Hunter
Being that the Mando'ade culture revolves around the military...
The Mandalorians (our Costumes)
- Thread starter mandaloriansith
- Start date
GrendelPrimeReborn
Hunter
Well then wouldn't there likely be a Mandalorian UCMJ? Therefore - a Military-type police enforcement force? A tribunal system? A JAG division of mandalorians? LOL --- you see --- in even a purely militaristic society there is always some form of enforcement of rules.
Look at the old legend of how Sun Tzu showed the emperor he could turn even women into warriors. Justice might not be the most orderly - but there's always someone specificially designated to enfoce it.
NovallTalon
Well-Known Hunter
I'm sure every clan had there own set of laws that flowed from one central source, be it the Cannons or the Codex. Laws put fourth by governments of mandalor controlled planets were very different and were probably the same laws that were around before the planets fell under mandalorian rule.
I would say that a clan leader dispensed justice in his clan, possibly electing to form a tribunal. I'm sure that would be dependent on the personality of the leader and his relationship with the men and women within his clan. I don't see any sort of JAG office as that would imply a characteristic in Mandalorian society that we haven't seen a whole lot of...office work =D
There are Pleaders on Concord Dawn that are the same thing as Lawyers, but again that's a civilian office.
I would say that a clan leader dispensed justice in his clan, possibly electing to form a tribunal. I'm sure that would be dependent on the personality of the leader and his relationship with the men and women within his clan. I don't see any sort of JAG office as that would imply a characteristic in Mandalorian society that we haven't seen a whole lot of...office work =D
There are Pleaders on Concord Dawn that are the same thing as Lawyers, but again that's a civilian office.
GrendelPrimeReborn
Hunter
Well - I'm not implying the Mandalorian culture would necessarily have a JAG or such...
I'm just saying - while they might not be "police" as say a bobbies or NYPD or such... but they'd LIKELY have some sort of enforcement personnel of codes of justice whether it be localized clan based or society based. Therefore - a "uniformed" Mandalorian as such might not be unreasonable to believe existing.
Society is defined by its laws or lawlessness...
Considering how "code of honor" Mandalorians seem to be --- I would tend to reason they have a code of justice or rather intense laws when it comes to honorable and dishonorable behavior.
arctroopomega5
Active Hunter
Here's an unfinished teaser from the fanfilm I'm makin. It's going to be live action but one of the opening shots turns into this image. Still need to add 2 more characters, a wook and my friend's mando. My concept is the only mando in it.
Feldon Nassus
New Hunter
Actually, if I may be so frank, I find this entire topic moot- the mandalorian culture is a culture that lacks any ranks, fixed jobs, or military. Rather than being an uber militaristic society, they are a warrior nomad society- finding it harder to destroy their culture if they are spread throughout the galaxy than gathered on Mandalore. As far as crime and punishment goes, that is why they are a conqueror culture- they will simply fight, which is often how disagreements are settled, like who will lead as Mandalor. The only real meaning behind the armor is the color scheme- black for justice, sand gold for vengence, etc.- and even then green and blue are the most popular. Camoflauge is sometimes used, but not often, as they have the saying "It's one thing to see us coming, and another to do something about it." Finally, as far as crime and punishment goes, the most severe punishment a mando'ade to recieve is exilement, though rare, or to have your status as Mando'ade lost or taken from you.
The most important thing to consider about the Mandalorians, especially considering their armor is Verd ori'sha beskar'gam. A warrior is more than his armor.
The most important thing to consider about the Mandalorians, especially considering their armor is Verd ori'sha beskar'gam. A warrior is more than his armor.
NovallTalon
Well-Known Hunter
Clans had a hierarchy among members, and that is also rank. Nomadic warriors doesn't mean leaderless disorganization. We see ranks on Mandalorians in KOTOR, and Kal Skirata was telling the Null's he was a Sargent before any republic official called him a rank.
I like to think of Mandalorians as the Samauri of Star Wars with some differences.
I think what is being discussed here is what we would see if we were to be on Mandalor, or Concord Dawn, or some other Mandalorian controlled planet. What would we see if we were to spend a day with a mando clan? I think that's what people are addressing in this topic...so that makes it far from moot.
I like to think of Mandalorians as the Samauri of Star Wars with some differences.
I think what is being discussed here is what we would see if we were to be on Mandalor, or Concord Dawn, or some other Mandalorian controlled planet. What would we see if we were to spend a day with a mando clan? I think that's what people are addressing in this topic...so that makes it far from moot.
Feldon Nassus
New Hunter
While that may be true, the Mandos now, especially, do not use rank. To quote the article from SWI-
"With the exception of the Mandalore, rankings never correspond to a fixed rank- a concept they find hard to accept"
"For a people who appear to have little interest in rank and hierarchy, Mandalorians are extremely co-operative in combat. The rugged individuality so marked in their approach to most things is set aside to reach a common goal, and they'll do whatever it takes to achieve their objective. Their fighting forces settle into informal command structures almost without thought or effort, focused on the outcome and not personal ambition. This instinctive flexibility is also what makes them superb mercenaries."
So this means they had no heirarchy, but still had their leader- which is what I was getting at. The only real costume difference should be if someone makes themselves Mandalore- but that'd mean leading everyone on these forums
And I think the Mandalores would be closer to the Spartans of greece- as they had the same mindset, practices, and behavior.
Finally, a day in the life of a mandalor would most likely either be working on a farm, rallying to the Mandalore, or fighting in war- as mandalores traditionally only fight when rallied, and usually tend to the homestead first rather than adventure.
"With the exception of the Mandalore, rankings never correspond to a fixed rank- a concept they find hard to accept"
"For a people who appear to have little interest in rank and hierarchy, Mandalorians are extremely co-operative in combat. The rugged individuality so marked in their approach to most things is set aside to reach a common goal, and they'll do whatever it takes to achieve their objective. Their fighting forces settle into informal command structures almost without thought or effort, focused on the outcome and not personal ambition. This instinctive flexibility is also what makes them superb mercenaries."
So this means they had no heirarchy, but still had their leader- which is what I was getting at. The only real costume difference should be if someone makes themselves Mandalore- but that'd mean leading everyone on these forums
And I think the Mandalores would be closer to the Spartans of greece- as they had the same mindset, practices, and behavior.
Finally, a day in the life of a mandalor would most likely either be working on a farm, rallying to the Mandalore, or fighting in war- as mandalores traditionally only fight when rallied, and usually tend to the homestead first rather than adventure.
kanol matea
Hunter
i dont know how i missied this thread but i have an aqua mando but that might be under spec ops mandalorian
NovallTalon
Well-Known Hunter
While that may be true, the Mandos now, especially, do not use rank. To quote the article from SWI-
"With the exception of the Mandalore, rankings never correspond to a fixed rank- a concept they find hard to accept"
"For a people who appear to have little interest in rank and hierarchy, Mandalorians are extremely co-operative in combat. The rugged individuality so marked in their approach to most things is set aside to reach a common goal, and they'll do whatever it takes to achieve their objective. Their fighting forces settle into informal command structures almost without thought or effort, focused on the outcome and not personal ambition. This instinctive flexibility is also what makes them superb mercenaries."
So this means they had no heirarchy, but still had their leader- which is what I was getting at. The only real costume difference should be if someone makes themselves Mandalore- but that'd mean leading everyone on these forums
And I think the Mandalores would be closer to the Spartans of greece- as they had the same mindset, practices, and behavior.
Finally, a day in the life of a mandalor would most likely either be working on a farm, rallying to the Mandalore, or fighting in war- as mandalores traditionally only fight when rallied, and usually tend to the homestead first rather than adventure.
Thats definately a good quote. Honestly, after reading that article many times, I think there should have been more historical tie-ins. It's hard for me to believe that between 63BBY and RoTJ things completely changed the way Mandalorians had acted for thousands of years. We have words like Al'verde, Ver'verd, Alor, Verd'ika that are all names of rank that were used by Mandalolrians. Those just didn't appear out of thin air =D
Mand'alor may tend his field now since there are only maybe 200 left in the galaxy (Hard to think of Boba Fett ever tending a garden.), but in the days when the Mandalorian Army was the greatest fighting force in the galaxy, you can bet your rear that there was nothing on his mind short of ruling the entire galaxy.
No fixed rank or formal command structure to me means that when the fighting was over they went back to tending those fields, herding the nerfs, or whatever you wanna think they did in the off time unlike the full time warriors of 2000 years ago. I like to believe that they had organization and leadership when they were fighting, not just a thousand voices over the comlink.
Because we have so little real knowledge about the Mandalorian culture save a couple articles and the excerpts in books based on Mandalorian characters , it's all based on opinions and ideas.
commander 13
New Hunter
Alright, let's put it this way. Currently, I am mad into xbox360 playing R6 Vegas. It's an online 4 player coop squad based game and the use of "radios" in game, although not essential, does help a lot.
A lot of players still do play as if it's a solo game rather than a team effort, many just want to be the one that has the most "kills" rather than actually succeed in a specific mission. But when a random team starts to communicate and ignore the number of their kills but work as a cohesive whole, then there really is no need for a rank/leader/boss. Everyone stays "radio" silent unless there's important information that needs to be relayed like "They're flanking us on the right" or "watch that corner". No one is specifically barking orders but relaying information that would be vital to the team's success.
I see the mandalorians the same way, certain mandos excel at certain things and the others will let him/her do his/her job when it's time for the job to get done. During the times they acted as mercs/soldiers for hire, I'm sure that's how things got done. We all cover each other, we all fight the same, no one gets left behind, no one does something stupid that will get the whole squad wiped out. And like in the R6 Vegas game, there will be glory hogs (ie Montross) who will want to show they're the best instead of covering their collective asses with the mission goal in mind rather than their own personal "kill" quota. Those kind of characters get "banished/courtmarshalled" by the collective whole, simply because they'd be the cause for the deaths of many "brothers" and "sisters".
So you see, there's not a specific hierarchy, aside from Mandalore because everyone knows their place, they know that whatever they need to do is for the success of the mission at hand rather than showboating.
Another possible reason why there would be no need for a specific hierarchy is repeat teams. Obviously if you've worked with a team before and you did a good job of surviving and getting the job done, you'd want to stick with that team as often as possible. And the more you work together, the better that team performs, more as a unit instead of a rag tag group of random soldiers. Cohesion through training would indeed negate any need for a formal ranking system since everyone knows which group they belong to and which group does what. (ie, Aerial units, foot soldiers, demo teams etc...)
Although technically you'd need a high ranking "officer" to orchestrate an attack pattern or a retreat, the mandos would simply choose to follow orders given by who is the most competent or the one who has the most competence in the situation at the time, rather than the one that has the highest "rank". They strive for efficiency and to that end, I'd say that even the specialized mandos are at least cross-trained to quite a competent degree in all other specialties, so that in the event that their "leader" died or was unable to perform his/her duties, they could still function as a team.
So you see, there would be no "official" ranking system, but there would still be cohesion because the "leader" during a mission just shifts from soldier to soldier depending on the situation.
Obviously for large scale assaults they would need to have some sort of leadership of the various squadrons/squads/regiments but their system still applies, if that leader dies, the squadron/squad/regiment doesn't stop functioning.
I'm not saying that they don't go back to tending their fields, just that it's not the main reason why they don't have a specific ranking system.
A lot of players still do play as if it's a solo game rather than a team effort, many just want to be the one that has the most "kills" rather than actually succeed in a specific mission. But when a random team starts to communicate and ignore the number of their kills but work as a cohesive whole, then there really is no need for a rank/leader/boss. Everyone stays "radio" silent unless there's important information that needs to be relayed like "They're flanking us on the right" or "watch that corner". No one is specifically barking orders but relaying information that would be vital to the team's success.
I see the mandalorians the same way, certain mandos excel at certain things and the others will let him/her do his/her job when it's time for the job to get done. During the times they acted as mercs/soldiers for hire, I'm sure that's how things got done. We all cover each other, we all fight the same, no one gets left behind, no one does something stupid that will get the whole squad wiped out. And like in the R6 Vegas game, there will be glory hogs (ie Montross) who will want to show they're the best instead of covering their collective asses with the mission goal in mind rather than their own personal "kill" quota. Those kind of characters get "banished/courtmarshalled" by the collective whole, simply because they'd be the cause for the deaths of many "brothers" and "sisters".
So you see, there's not a specific hierarchy, aside from Mandalore because everyone knows their place, they know that whatever they need to do is for the success of the mission at hand rather than showboating.
Another possible reason why there would be no need for a specific hierarchy is repeat teams. Obviously if you've worked with a team before and you did a good job of surviving and getting the job done, you'd want to stick with that team as often as possible. And the more you work together, the better that team performs, more as a unit instead of a rag tag group of random soldiers. Cohesion through training would indeed negate any need for a formal ranking system since everyone knows which group they belong to and which group does what. (ie, Aerial units, foot soldiers, demo teams etc...)
Although technically you'd need a high ranking "officer" to orchestrate an attack pattern or a retreat, the mandos would simply choose to follow orders given by who is the most competent or the one who has the most competence in the situation at the time, rather than the one that has the highest "rank". They strive for efficiency and to that end, I'd say that even the specialized mandos are at least cross-trained to quite a competent degree in all other specialties, so that in the event that their "leader" died or was unable to perform his/her duties, they could still function as a team.
So you see, there would be no "official" ranking system, but there would still be cohesion because the "leader" during a mission just shifts from soldier to soldier depending on the situation.
Obviously for large scale assaults they would need to have some sort of leadership of the various squadrons/squads/regiments but their system still applies, if that leader dies, the squadron/squad/regiment doesn't stop functioning.
I'm not saying that they don't go back to tending their fields, just that it's not the main reason why they don't have a specific ranking system.
The Clayster
Well-Known Hunter
If all mandos are warriors...why have a police force?
Feldon Nassus
New Hunter
If our soldiers are warriors, why have a military police?
answer- because even warriors can commit crimes.
answer- because even warriors can commit crimes.
The Clayster
Well-Known Hunter
Mandalorian culture was based off of Sparta's culture. The men are warriors, they raise their children to be warriors.
They have no police because if there were a problem, the militaryh would take care of it.
Feldon Nassus
New Hunter
The flaw in your logic lies in the idea that every mando will obey the laws set by the mandalore. If someone breaks that law, someone must be of position to uphold it and rectify the problem.
Likewise, the military has its own police- as the soldiers need to obey the law, and if that law is broken, then the MPs will sort it out, not other soldiers.
Likewise, the military has its own police- as the soldiers need to obey the law, and if that law is broken, then the MPs will sort it out, not other soldiers.
The Clayster
Well-Known Hunter
GCNgamer128
Sr Hunter
Why do you care so much? By a culture of this sort, a police system isn't needed, but is more or less an extension of the military.
Feldon Nassus
New Hunter
I dont. Im just correcting a factual error based on readings of Open Seasons and Karen Traviss' work.
While it may be true that the Journey Man Protector's were an extention of the Military, it was needed, as demonstrated in Open Seasons, where Jango's own family was murdered by rogue mando's.
While it may be true that the Journey Man Protector's were an extention of the Military, it was needed, as demonstrated in Open Seasons, where Jango's own family was murdered by rogue mando's.
The Clayster
Well-Known Hunter
So Karen Traviss is wrong, even though she made the Mandalorian Language, and helped make Mandalorians what they are now...sounds good....
Feldon Nassus
New Hunter
Im sorry, but who decided to give you the right to decide whats cannon and not?
And besides, the Journeyman Protector is something that has been associated with Mandalorians since Tales from the Bounty Hunters, so its not just Karen that you are denoting as 'wrong', but dozens of writers that have elaborated on the Mandalorians.
If you want, in order to give an idea of what the Mandalorians are, Ill PM you some pages of their article from SWI.
