"Customs" - Cannon vs. Imagination

I've never known how to quite put into words my opinion on the reception (or lack-of) "custom" Mandalorians. Overall, the circle of those involved in the interpretation of the Mandalorian's is a positive one. For the most part, everyone is as helpful and loving of Stars Wars as those creating strictly canon costumes. However, I would also say that there is a large amount of resentment for the hacking and slashing of canon characters.

When I began my own project, I honestly do not remember the massive amount of customs that there are today (though I may be wrong about that). My reasoning behind it was simple. It had nothing to do with a lack of motivation or patience to create Boba Fett or Jango Fett. The reason was that Boba Fett and Jango Fett were not me.

I've always wanted to be a part of that Galaxy far far away. As much as I respect and admire the work of the Boba and Jango's here, I personally felt at the time that if I wanted to make a contribution, it should be as the character I would be in that Galaxy. I absolutely focused on the canon Star Wars universe as a guide to my own character, but also obviously took some liberty in design. Being generally new to costuming, I didn't completely understand the culture surrounding this hobby yet.

I have never been directly told that my armor is problematic or anything like that (in fact, quite the opposite), but I am always aware of the conflicting views about it. It's a bit frustrating at times, but at the same time I completely understand and respect the popular desire to uphold Star Wars as it was told.

Why am I posting this? Not really sure. But I think there are some issues that need to be resolved in the Dented Variants. There are some extremely patient and well executed works, and there are honestly some which seem to come together much too quickly and with much less attention to detail as our Boba and Jango brothers (no offense). I am not one in any place to tell anyone else how to create their own vision. However, I am trying to determine the areas that cause the most conflict. Most of the larger costuming groups no longer recognize Variants as acceptable. Personally, I understand this stance. That said, I am very proud of my own work and I know it brings joy to many people.

So what can be done?

Maybe nothing...perhaps I am just rambling. Or perhaps, we should step up to more closely scrutinize one another. Perhaps we are not completely canon, but we can surely do our best to adhere to the actual look and feel of the Star Wars Universe. Choices like colors palettes (or lack of), accessories (or lack of), and legitimate weapon options (that at least incorporate significant elements of the known Star Wars Universe) can go a long way into unifying the Mandalorians.

I feel that the lack of unification is the single largest element that causes issue. Without a complete code to follow, we do as we feel, often before consulting any guidelines. This results in an armada of uniqueness, no two alike. My personal (opinion) is that while there would likely be more variance than Boba and Jango, there would also be a lot less than we are creating. How can we solve this, or should it even be solved?

I am curious if anyone else has an opinion on this, or if I am on my own.

Again, no offense intended to ANYONE. These are just a few thoughts I have had on my mind for quite a while now.

While I don't have really much to add...or a solution to the proposed question. I do have to say that as a fellow "custom" I completely understand where you are coming from.

I understand fully what you said in your next-to-last paragraph about adhering to the Star Wars universe. I tried to stay as close to the technology and look in making my costume as well and understand how something as simple as a weapon out of place can make a Star Wars costume seem...un-Star Wars.

That's why I felt it best to try and copy and "modify" certain elements to retain a feel of the original Star Wars.

I'm glad that you brought this out into the open.

ShockWave, I definatly agree with the points you brought up.

When people think customs, they think of pretty much doing anything they want. I encourage that, but to a point. I've seen some customs that were "too much." I don't really know how else to describe it, almost like they were trying too hard to customize it. I'm not saying they should completely redo it because I think it's a bit much, just voiceing my opinion.

I also agree with scrutinizing and critiquing eachother's work. We are customs, that much is true, but it doesn't mean our work can't measure up to that of some of the Boba's and Jango's here. We should definatly strive for quility, much like our fellow cannon Mandalorians do.

So no, you're definatly not on your own. I'm sure others will have opinions to add here, and I look forward to reading them.

If I may add my two cents here... and if I am stepping over a boundary, please let me know. I agree 100%. Should there be a set guideline for customs? I can't say, as I am just now getting an interest in the Mando area. However, should that deter someone's imagination? That is something that everyone should agree upon and discuss. Personally, I think that if the custom looks like and is "plausiable" within the realm of SW- then I say **again my opinion only** go for it.

The debate over customs and "canons" in my opinion is pointless. Its like trying to argue with someone how chocolate is better then vanilla ice cream, no one can ever win or lose, so why argue? The way I think of customs is that its a persons interpritation of a character in the SW universe. Its somethin people have been doing since stories were first told and written. For instance, in the epic of Beowulf, you read the character of Grendal as a ferocious monster that is huge, hairy, and has tremedous claws. Thiis is where peoples interpritation come in. Some might percive this monster has a Bear like creature, or a huminoid warewolf. Its all about how someones sees things, and they do it all the time in movies. Everyone's seen all concept art, and what first thoughts and looks were before the final film came out.

So what Im tryin to say, is that customs are everywhere if you think about it. Also, its a art. Creating a character, and designing it takes as much effort as it does for famous characters most commonly seen. So no one is right to say thst customs are wrong or that they are inaccurate. Keep making art and dont worry about negativity from people who disapprove of "customs." Just keep doing what your doing.

-tubachris
(The world is full of characters, the SW universe is much wider, whos to say that there are only a set number of people there?)

It is a pretty pointless argument. But I think this thread is geared more towards the idea of having standards of some kind, so customs don't deviate so much from the Mandalorian standards that they become unrecognizable, or at least not easily connected to being a Mandalorian. While Mandalorians are all unique, they still have many things in common, keeping with the tradition that they all belong to the same state of being and belief.

Shockwave,

I can respect that you feel Jango and Boba were not for you. My personal preference in costuming is to try to match the screen as much as I can. It's a sort of concrete goal that I can aspire to. That said, I really admire the creative effort that many costumers put into their customs.

I think its a misconception that those who do not do a canon costume do not have to have attention to detail. I think it takes a different talent altogether to emulate a style instead of an exact replica. I have certainly seen customs that were either underdone or grossly overdone. However, I think that if executed properly, a custom can fit very harmoniously into the general atmosphere of the canon universe. As I feel is demonstrated below...

Perfect, zxwing. :) My thoughts exactly.
And that is a kick:moon picture.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zxwing

I think its a misconception that those who do not do a canon costume do not have to have attention to detail. I think it takes a different talent altogether to emulate a style instead of an exact replica. I have certainly seen customs that were either underdone or grossly overdone. However, I think that if executed properly, a custom can fit very harmoniously into the general atmosphere of the canon universe. As I feel is demonstrated below...

---

I think the important question to ask when creating a Custom is: "Does it look like it could've just walked off of the film sets?" If the answer is yes, then you're onto a winner.
Ok, as Custom Mando's we don't have a screen image to follow, there are no guides in any books, and our only limits are our Lucas inspired imaginations but (and there's ALWAYS a but!) we do have to stick to established facts about Mando's, and that means taking our inspiration from Boba and Jango. Unfortunatly this means we can't always win, with some people not impressed because they think we're just a repainted Jango or an alternatively coloured Boba.
When it comes to making any Mando, Canon or Custom the same rules apply:

1)Don't cut corners. Take your time with your armour, DON'T rush it. A good idea for a Custom can be ruined by rushing to finish your armour. It can take months for someone to finish their Boba or Jango, there's THAT much detail; there should be as much if not more detail on a Custom mando.

2)Don't think that just because you're making your own creation it'll be cheaper and easier then making Boba or Jango. If you start out by purchasing cheap and shoddy parts, the end results won't be as good as if you saved and bought the best out there.

3)As already mentioned, try and stick to the established Star Wars universe, study the films, comics and books to get the look down. Even if you are creating something new, a blaster, jet pack or markings on your armour for example; it MUST look the part.

4)Don't get upset when your called Boba or Jango by the general public. I troop with the Knights Of The Empire on a regular basis and get called Boba more often then our own Bobas do!!

well, The way I see it, Customs are just our little twist on the canon of star wars. We are all making armor because we think it's a cool, fun, and creative thing to do, but why are we all making mandalorian armor?

The answer my friends is :fettrotj

We are all paying homage to the great characters of Boba and Jango in our own little way, by making our armor in their image.

Now, customs are patently not canon characters, but I think that our desire to create a totaly new character, beyond the bounds and rules people place on pre-existing characters, and add a little part of ourselves to star wars. We're basically doing what fan-fiction writers and star wars roleplayers do, making a little bit of story for a small group of people.

I beleive that the real point to customs is expressing your love of the series and your creativity together in a vivid, powerful, and niftey looking package. Do what you want to your character, modify your armor, build a story, do what you want, because its a custom thats the point.

thats my 2 cents

Well said Nachturnus...well said.

Wow! It looks like I picked the perfect day to check out ye olde TDH forums again. ;)

I've done both at various times - from ESB Boba to Jodo Kast to a custom silver and black design. I too have been mistaken for Boba, Jango and even Darth Vader at times. Allow me to take a logical look at Mando costuming.

Who do we do it for?
Is it for the kids? If so, do they care if we're canon? If not, then who?
Do we do it for ourselves? If so, then customizing is a personal choice.
Do we do it for LFL? If so, then obviously Boba and Jango are surer bets but even LFL has shown that each mando is a variant. There's less in the way of cookie cutter molds than you might think.
In the end, I think it's a combo of all of the above.

Recent articles and comics such as Open Seasons show us that each mando is unique. In fact, custom mandos as a concept ARE canon. Each mando customizes his armor and weapons to his personal needs and desires. It's like creating a "canon" Ewok costume - no two are exactly the same. By nature, they are all "custom".

So, what is generally not appreciated about customs? Usually, it's stuff that varies from the spirit of the Star Wars universe. It's the old "customs are all pulse rifles, combat shotguns and chicken bones" argument. Customs shouldn't contain non-Star Wars weapons. A custom with a ninja sword and hockey pads might be cool for a fun costume but not as a serious attempt at a custom. That's fine for fun night at DC but not for serious costuming. In this way, we're no different from poorly done Bobas and Jangos with off-color paints and paper mache' gauntlets. Poor quality or poor design are both looked down upon.

Some might not like the day glo color schemes that some have chosen. Have you seen the Jodo Kast decipher card version? It's canon and the colors are pretty wild.

I've always come to accept the fact that currently the 501st isn't custom friendly. I'm working to change that but it's a slow process. The more quality customs that wouldn't look out of place standing next to Boba, Bossk and the boys the easier it will be to argue the case. The addition of a custom variants section here is a huge leap. Years ago when I first joined TDH, customs were the red-headed step children of the mando world. ;)

Allow me the sinful plug of inviting any and all Mandalorians to our humble forums: http://z6.invisionfree.com/Mando_ade

One fine day we'll get people to see that "custom" and "canon" aren't mutually exclusive terms. :)

"In five millennia, the Mandalorians fought with and against a thousand armies on a thousand worlds. They learned to speak as many languages and absorbed weapons technology and tactics from every war. And yet, despite the overwhelming influence of alien cultures, and the absence of a true home world and even species, their own language not only survived but changed little; their way of life and their philosophy remained untouched; and their ideals and sense of family, of identity of nation, were only strengthened. Armor is not what makes a Mandalorian. Armor is simply a manifestation of an impenetrable, unassaliable heart. "
— Passage from "Mandalorians: Identity and Language"


The last two sentences sums up how I feel on the subject.

When I first started thinking about getting into costuming my first choice was doing a Mando. This was because I loved Boba and Jango from the movies, however I was never a big fan of Boba’s armor colors, and Jango was cool but not my cup of tea. When I first found there were custom Mandos out there it made my decision much easier.

I agree with both sides of this debate to a certain point. I do believe a “Custom” costume is just that, Custom. Which by its definition means not cannon, however I do agree with the notion of having some type of standards such as the general look and feel of a Mando in the armor scheme and helmet. That being said, the Star Wars universe is so large that there are weapons and gear out there that have never been seen besides inside the mind of the one who is working on them. I do believe that Mandos should not carry modern military style weapons, however customizing these weapons and creating your own custom weapon system is a great way to add to the custom experience.

A great way to look at the custom Mando world is to take a look into our past. The American Indian tribes were well known to customize their war paints and equipment to the individual. No one Indian looked alike in paint or weapons arrangement. This added to the ferocity of their appearance and helped to confuse their enemies, not really knowing how many individuals they are up against.

I do feel that some customs have gone overboard, but the better way to help these people out is to lead by example and make our customs to the top standards that our fellow Boba and Jango builders, as well as the rest of the costumers out there set for themselves. Be creative, be innovative, be yourself. If you feel that when you look in the mirror your costume would not work in the scene in ESB when the bounty hunters are lined up before Vader, or would not be found in a back water cantina somewhere blending in with the rest of the denizens then you may have over done it a bit.

That’s my .02 worth.

Wow while I love this thread I must say there is a lot at work here. First and formost x gen characteristics vs mellenium characteristics. as an x gen I hate rules ( and that is typical) but younger millenium like to rewrite the rules. There is a lot of psychology ( I know I have worked in the field for 10 years and have a degree) but I also have aN esb FETT AND A SKIRATA VARIANT. I do not consider 501st a valid group any longer. Sorry but they have locked themselves into a place where lucas can change their whole world in one press release.
If you are here on the TDH and you come to a con where I am at YOU are welcome. period to whatever party I am throwing to going out and trooping whatever. 501st isnt the only group out there and they drew that line in the sand. I am all about comparing costumes, having fun and talking about star wars . If you are too uptight well..... join the 501st I'm sure they need another schincter.

Just keep in mind that this thread is not directed at the 501st.

Remember that the 501st is just looking for quality costumes that meet film standards. We need more active stormtroopers, I hate going to events and there being 1 stormtrooper, a few custom Mandos, seven custom Jedi, 2 Boba Fetts and a Princess Leia.

It saddens me when I think of the seperations people draw for themselves, putting up barriers and walls in order to keep their own lives within their own control.

The 501st is a wonderful organization, providing support to costumers everywhere, and I respect them deeply for making hard-core costuming more possible for the average joe.

Now, I unfortunately will not become a member of the 501st due to the fact that I love my custom too much, but I realize that they have made a small but sad error in ecluding the thousands of us who love custom costuming. I personally have great hopes for the TDH, in the space of two small years in which I've been trolling here, the numbers of custom posts has grown infinately, and I hope that we will only get bigger and bigger.

-----------

As to quality of costumes, I think that even if a suit is low quality that everyone should do their best to support each other. We are a small group of people, and by telling somone "Your armor looks just like the trashcan you cut it from!", then we've just lost one more person.

I try to do my best to help others make their armor look as star-warsy as possible, and to make it better and better every single time they wear it out, in a state of sonstant improvement, until their armor is finnaly finished. That's how i've been doing my armor for nigh on two and a half years.

Support your fellow sons of Mandalore, and may you fly strong in your own endevors to become more like him.

Well we're lucky that the 501st is not just Stormtroopers anymore. It irritates me that people want customs in the 501st, we would lose the entire look of our club. Customs would let in Rubies costumes, scratch built extremely low quality cheap looking costumes, and etc. Those kind of costumes would not be as impressive as the 501st is now. The 501st should never allow customs, I believe that they should go back into the members list and revise the costumes again.

The 501st is not ignoring customs, they are just following the definition of "canon." They went through and brushed plenty of them out over the past year, I believe that Jango Wes's purple Jango wife was a member, she was removed. It's a nice costume, but it's just not canon unless some proof of it's existance in the Star Wars Universe (At least four pictures).

Without canon costumes, there would be no use for the GML (Garrison Membership Liason) in the 501st.

If you look at the Rebel Legion, they have a problem with costume quality, custom Jedi left and right, and that's why they are more of a follower of the 501st. Remember, you can always troop in your custom costumes as long as it's not an official event. If you want to be in the 501st, choose a costume that will go into the 501st! Why shouldn't the 501st let in Han Solo? If I wanted to make his costume, why can't I join that club? Why? Because it's not the right costume for the organisation.

Customs are not the 501st, if custom costumers have a problem with that, then perhaps they should start their own costuming club.

Question for GCNgamer. Why would allowing customs let in "Rubies costumes, scratch built extremely low quality cheap looking costumes, and etc" since part of the GML's job is to keep that from happening. It doesn't happen with Storm Troopers, it doesn't happen with Vader, it doesn't happen at all, and it's not because "There are pictures to go by" otherwise the Rubies Supreme Vader would be acceptable. It's because the 501st has a quality standard that some costumes don't meet. And the GML's keep that standard.

And as far as Rebel Legion, they actually now have standards for the costumes that allow for customization, unlike the 501st who have no costume standards, though the 501st is working on that. I will admit that Rebel Legion have had issues in the past, but they have worked to rectify this and were doing so before the 501st. And as far as Han Solo versus a Mandalorian, the 501st doesn't allow Rebel Face characters, but they do allow Bounty Hunters.


But to get this back to the topic at hand, the problem with setting standards, is what do you set the standard to? Do we throw out MS's "Heavy Mando" helmet because it has a bunch of stuff attached? What if you do a Mando that wears a Clone breastplate/backpate instead of the standard flak vest armor? Does it require shins and thighs? Does armor require gauntlets? Does the gauntlet have to have a missile on it, or could it have something different? For example for my custom I am doing an Information Specialist so instead of the traditional left guantlet I am planning on doing a more computerish design (maybe something simliar to a Pred flip computer but with a Star Wars look) with a droid data attachment on it. Does that mean I can no longer call it an "official" custom? There is a big difference between the quality of a suit and what is a part of a suit, and when you start saying what can be on a custom, then you will quickly find that the exceptions outweigh the rules.

Hello, I'm sorry for your misunderstanding, but I was replying to the "501st drawing the line in the sand." A custom costume might be a Rubies costume that's been dyed green, wearing tennis shoes and a face mask instead of a helmet.

I LOVE to see custom Mandos, it'd be pretty boring to only have Bobas and Jangos around. Marrow Sun's heavy Mando helmet is pretty sweet, great for a custom, typical chest armor can also be changed and etc.

Customs = COOL!

Customs in the 501st = Not Cool.

Having been involved in costuming and attending Conventions for 25 + years i am some what disturbed by some of what i have read here on this subject. I myself have costumes from Klingon Battle Armor to a full Borg ( with tubes and electronics that look as if they are implanted in me ) and Renaisance and a full Black Hole ( Stealth ) Trooper armor that i spent a lot of time and money on.

What i have a problem with is the thought that there is an organization and are people that think that those who can not afford to get those costumes as good as theirs should not be part of what they are a part of. That sounds like being prejudice to me. Should we only let in those "White" troopers because they are seen in the movies. NO Black or Red troopers in because they are not like the rest. Should we only let those Boba or Jango " Clones" in because they were in the movies. No "customs" on mandos because they are not like the rest. I think not. Discrimination is some thing that this country has fought to stop for a long time and i myself enjoy the many differences i see. Some of the best costumes no matter the genre i have seen have been custom or variances.

I am currently working on a "custom" mando as you can see here in the dented varients section. I will wear this mando with pride and enjoy the fun i have with old and new friends made at the cons. If there are those who do not care for them than this is their problem as i have been shown in various costumes as representative of those at the conventions and even asked by a major company to use my likeness in costume in a tv comercial and they were all "custom" as they are called. I do hope that i did not offend any one with my rantings but i hate discrimination and love the differences that the world brings. Finally there is an old saying that says "Why would i join a club that would have me as a member ". Viva la Customs!!!!!!:albino

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nachturnus

As to quality of costumes, I think that even if a suit is low quality that everyone should do their best to support each other. We are a small group of people, and by telling somone "Your armor looks just like the trashcan you cut it from!", then we've just lost one more person.

---

I agree to a degree, but at the same time you are not really helping anyone out my dishonestly reinforcing low quality efforts.

There is so much knowledge here that even on a budget, you can learn to create very nice and accurate armor. Certainly over time, this becomes somewhat expensive, but it all does not need to happen over night. For $25.00 one can pick up a 8' x 4' sheet of sintra that goes a long way (GE Polymershapes). Many go straight to paint before giving a thought to fitting. Many grab random toy guns, hit them with paint, and call it a day. I realize that some are more experienced crafters than others, but I am of the opinion that anyone exercising enough determination and patience can become an expert. Criticism is largely subjective, but blindly reinforcing every effort neglects the criticized valuable potential. The lower the standard, the more the entire group deviates from its potential.

Though, I think the issues I am thinking of have a bit less to do with quality and more to do with continuity. I see it in a way somewhat similar t the clone armies. A few designated, distinguishable ranks, and several standard troops.

What is the base Mandalorian? Do Boba and Jango's colors originate from larger, similar clans? Are jet packs standard? If not, what are the alternatives? Is there a way to determine rank? What are the details that each known Mandalorian shares?

These examples of questions may be impossible to answer, but then again we are on our own path as it is. I may be digging a ditch that is difficult to fill :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShocKWavE

I agree to a degree, but at the same time you are not really helping anyone out my dishonestly reinforcing low quality efforts.

There is so much knowledge here that even on a budget, you can learn to create very nice and accurate armor. Certainly over time, this becomes somewhat expensive, but it all does not need to happen over night. For $25.00 one can pick up a 8' x 4' sheet of sintra that goes a long way (GE Polymershapes). Many go straight to paint before giving a thought to fitting. Many grab random toy guns, hit them with paint, and call it a day. I realize that some are more experienced crafters than others, but I am of the opinion that anyone exercising enough determination and patience can become an expert. Criticism is largely subjective, but blindly reinforcing every effort neglects the criticized valuable potential. The lower the standard, the more the entire group deviates from its potential.

---

I agree with you 100%, that it is not wise to tell people "Your costume looks great!" when it in fact looks like a peice of tin foil. I was saying that, instead of going "*** your costume is teh suxorz" that we should try to aid them in making their costume better.

A good example is Zurath Kudol, or how ever you spell it. He runs on a tight budget, and his costume originally looked pretty ******. He's been working on it over the last couple of months with people's critiques to guide him, and it's starting to look much much better.

---------

Now, with the continuity, I beleive a character just needs to have an acceptable backstory relating to their past. None of this "son of a jedi, and raised by wolves" stuff, but a legitimate back story, with a place of birth, interactions with the galactic powers (black sun, empire, rebels, hutts, etc.), and a feasable desciption for why they are the way they are.

Now, My personal take on the basic mandalorian is a little skewed.

I think that most mandos (as seen in comics etc) looked essentially like the mandalorian comandos in swg. Jet Packs are not standard, gauntlet attachments are not standard, and weapons are not standard. Leg armor also seems to be a little less than standard as well.

Everything else, the chest armor, the helmet, the flight suit, the knee pads, seem to all be pretty standard.

---------

I personally would like very much to compile a timeline of histories of the characters on HvM or TDH, to try to get a little continuity for everyone's customs that is accessable to everyone. this could add a little bit of continuity to the whole custom angle (although totally un-canon), and could make the customs seem that much more real, that much more like a peice of Star Wars.

After all in star wars, guns, spaceships, and planets all get their own little books and timelines, why shouldn't we make one for ourselves?

ShockWave, I agree as well. I am running on a tight budget, but I'm trying out everything that I can, checking the fit of armor, making details on the suit that aren't at first noticible but there to add character. Remember, all the people who construct the cool stuff you see had to learn it at some point, so why not take the time to learn how to make things and have those skills if you make more costumes?

And Nachturnus, making a timeline of peoples backstories sounds like an awesome idea! Great way to make the customs feel more like part of the SW Universe.

I agree that a back story and time line would be great. I also think a Gallery style page where all us customs could post our gear in one place, would allow many new custom builders a chance to look at the quality of customs out there. Setting a high example here on the boards and out in the world when we are in our costumes is a good a way to form some general guidelines to how to build a custom Mando, Storm Trooper, Etc. If we lead by example and give the newer people a place to look at all of our hard work without having to search and spend a lot of time on the web. would give them more time to work on their gear. This would also help them feel the need to build up to a “standard” of excellence without forcing them to live up to a standard that we have set to try and weed them out. I can say personally that I took a lot of time working on my gear and looking at every custom Mando I could find to take ideas from. I felt an obligation to make my Mando live up to the standards that many of you have set for yourselves in building your own costumes. I feel that most people will feel the same way and the desire to "fit in" with the rest of us without being forced that way, will push them to make their costumes the best they can be.

I also feel that is why there is some resentment for groups like the 501st. I understand their desire to have cannon characters and their desire to fit into the universe as it was in the movies. There is a positive side to what they are doing by creating a force of storm troopers and imperial troops in general. They are a great addition to any convention or gathering. However the decision to close off their ranks to customs has a negative side. I personally have felt some resentment in the past, when I was looking at costume choices, toward the 501st. due to their requirements. I no longer feel that way and will perhaps one day build a cannon costume to join them, but now that I have found TDH and HV&M as well as a couple of other places to hang out, I do not feel the pressure to conform to a certain standard just to fit in. If I ever join it will be becaue I want to, not because I feel I have to just to have fun with the hobby.

I really feel no need to have my custom be accepted by the 501st. I want to make an ESB Boba as well as a Biker Scout which should both get into the 501st anyways, if I decide to join.

I think a gallery is being planned as well, with the new server change allowing that kind of addition. I'm not sure the specifics of the gallery, like if it's only for cannon costumes. And I must say that seeing all the customs and Fetts that I've seen has really pushed me to try and make the best costume I possibly can given the resources available to me.

I would like to see some advancements toward rank identification and unit class customization. for instance, standard bearers and grunts. also elite class and the like. of course all of these things only serve towards a more united mandalorian army structure. as far as bounty hunters and loners, there should still be some standard to live up to. I know I don't want to look like a dork in my PJ's. by the same token, i'm not doing a fett because I don't want someone picking apart my paint job and jumpsuit colors. I want to have a good time, and hang out with easy going people, not costume snobs. i'll stop typing now. I got nothing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by katarn

"In five millennia, the Mandalorians fought with and against a thousand armies on a thousand worlds. They learned to speak as many languages and absorbed weapons technology and tactics from every war. And yet, despite the overwhelming influence of alien cultures, and the absence of a true home world and even species, their own language not only survived but changed little; their way of life and their philosophy remained untouched; and their ideals and sense of family, of identity of nation, were only strengthened. Armor is not what makes a Mandalorian. Armor is simply a manifestation of an impenetrable, unassaliable heart. "
— Passage from "Mandalorians: Identity and Language"


The last two sentences sums up how I feel on the subject.

---

beautiful just beautiful :cry :thumbsup :)

Ok,

I think its my turn to chime in on this subject....as an Admin here and as 501st member.
When I started my Jodo Kast armor, EU characters were not allowed in yet.Thus, my Jodo Kast was not going to elegible for membership in the 501st. Did that stop me? Hell no....It may have taken me 4 yrs to put it all together, but I did it...and it came out fantastic!! I was still going to troop with all of my 501st friends regardless, because we all hung out and partied together.
Fast forward to the present. Remo Locke and I started the HVM for a place for Custom Mandos to hang out and showcase their stuff, because there was no place for us like the TDH is for Boba and Jango. Our membership grew, as more people came over and started to hang out, and showcase more of their stuff.
Now look at where we are, there are 3 forums dedicated to Custom Mandalorian costumes, where there was none a year and a half ago. I say we as a group have made significant progress with our costumes and the quality we have been churning out.
Yes, we must also help each other keep the quality high on what we do, to keep the feel for "just walked off the set" look. I think that is one of our primary goals.
And as I have seen, many people will come at me and say.."Why do you care? Your Mando is already an accepted 501st costume!" To those people I point out, that 4 years ago, it was not. Thus making me and my brother to the North, Jodo_Kast the first custom Mandalorians out there that really showcased our costumes.... So this subject is near and dear to both of us.
So where does that leave us? I don`t know. We now have 3 message boards to choose from, our numbers have tripled in the last year, and I am organizing the first Custom Mando Photo Op at DragonCon this year.

Where it all goes from here is anybodys guess? Could our little fledgling group expand and grow more than it has? I`m sure it will...and I`ll be here to watch and smile as it does.

Carry on my Mandalorian brothers and sisters...

Craig M. :jodo
Jodo Kast 3
HVM Admin
TDH Admin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tack

I agree that a back story and time line would be great. I also think a Gallery style page where all us customs could post our gear in one place, would allow many new custom builders a chance to look at the quality of customs out there.

---

I believe that is what Remo (I think) is trying to do here: http://www.mandaloriansupercommandos...x_content.html

I didn't read most of this thread, but I'd definatly like to throw in and agree with the original poster.

I sometimes see customs that makes me question why someone would do something.

The biggest pet peeve for me, but I never mention it because, hey, it's your costume. But, if you want to fit into the timeline there are a few things that need to be recognized.

First off. Mandalorians hate Jedi, they hate everything about them and everything that represents what a Jedi is. So, when I see a Mandalorian Jedi, it kinda twists my nipple. A Mandalorian would never use a Light Saber for several reasons. One, even as bad *** as Mandalorians are, they just don't have the focus and force power to use a Light Saber, here is a weapon that takes years and years to just get the feel of, and without the Force, it's extremely hard to do. Not saying that it can't be done, it just in all actuallity of most of the stories that I've read, wouldn't happen.

Second, It has been stated in almost every source book...No Two Mandalorian Armors look the same. So, there's absolutly no reason why all the costumes should look the same. You could be wearing football pads, and as long as "look" Mandalorian...hey, you're a Mandalorian. If you pick up issue 7 of Star Wars: Knight of the Old Republic comic book series, there is an excellent example of pre-dated Mando costumes, and I loved it. I got some great ideas for my next custom based off of that one comic book, and it's going to be a bad-*** Mando costume when I'm done.

Three: Regardless of what you've heard Jango Fett was not the last Mandalorian. There were several of them that were used as Training Commanders for the Clone Troopers. Jango provided the DNA, and the Mandos that he hand-picked trained the commando squads.

In the latest book, we see several Mandalorians.

Four: Mandalorians are not a "Race" they're a warrior tribe. Anyone can become a Mandalorian, in fact I saw a Twi'Lek Mando in this story and I thought he looked awsome. So, if you want to be a Ghamorian Mandalorian, that's entirely up to you, and nobody but big GL can say anything otherwise.

And the way I see, when GL released Star Wars, he gave that universe to us. It exists in our imaginations, making us the controllers now. Just because he says "Oh, no more Wookie Jedi." Doesn't mean you have to listen to him. If you want to be a Jedi Hutt, then that's your thing. Nobody has the right to take that away from you.

That's all I got to say. I'm sorry if I upset anyone with my points of views, and I could be wrong. Maybe you're Mandalorian killed a Jedi and took his saber. That's your story, your character...go on with your bad self.:cheering

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jodo Kast 3

Ok,

I think its my turn to chime in on this subject....as an Admin here and as 501st member.
When I started my Jodo Kast armor, EU characters were not allowed in yet.Thus, my Jodo Kast was not going to elegible for membership in the 501st. Did that stop me? Hell no....It may have taken me 4 yrs to put it all together, but I did it...and it came out fantastic!! I was still going to troop with all of my 501st friends regardless, because we all hung out and partied together.
Fast forward to the present. Remo Locke and I started the HVM for a place for Custom Mandos to hang out and showcase their stuff, because there was no place for us like the TDH is for Boba and Jango. Our membership grew, as more people came over and started to hang out, and showcase more of their stuff.
Now look at where we are, there are 3 forums dedicated to Custom Mandalorian costumes, where there was none a year and a half ago. I say we as a group have made significant progress with our costumes and the quality we have been churning out.
Yes, we must also help each other keep the quality high on what we do, to keep the feel for "just walked off the set" look. I think that is one of our primary goals.
And as I have seen, many people will come at me and say.."Why do you care? Your Mando is already an accepted 501st costume!" To those people I point out, that 4 years ago, it was not. Thus making me and my brother to the North, Jodo_Kast the first custom Mandalorians out there that really showcased our costumes.... So this subject is near and dear to both of us.
So where does that leave us? I don`t know. We now have 3 message boards to choose from, our numbers have tripled in the last year, and I am organizing the first Custom Mando Photo Op at DragonCon this year.

Where it all goes from here is anybodys guess? Could our little fledgling group expand and grow more than it has? I`m sure it will...and I`ll be here to watch and smile as it does.

Carry on my Mandalorian brothers and sisters...

Craig M. :jodo
Jodo Kast 3
HVM Admin
TDH Admin

---

Oh, and one more thing about this subject. No offense to you Jodo, I have the upmost respect for you and 501st guys.

But, I am getting sick and tired of seeing you guys mentioned in every book! :moon

You guys have earned your place, don't get me wrong. You've put a lot of hard work to end up where you guys are today. But...maybe it's time for a little competition. The 501st wasn't the only Stormtrooper devision! :b

I doubt anyone would be able to stand up to the 501st, I mean...you guys have what, a couple thousand members now?

But, still wouldn't it be interesting to have some friendly competition?

Bah, I'm just in Madea mode. I'll shut up now, I'm rambling. :cheers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DellisTantor

I doubt anyone would be able to stand up to the 501st, I mean...you guys have what, a couple thousand members now?
But, still wouldn't it be interesting to have some friendly competition?

---

The Knights Of The Empire have stepped upto the mark. We're U.K. based, 501st friendly, and now have members spreading across the U.S. We troop not just canon, but EU canon and quality custom Mando's and can be found at: Knights Of The Empire 8) Okay, shameless plug over!

As long as the essential ellements are there, taken from EU canon or film canon then how you put it together is entirely upto you. Just remember that it should look like it "COULD'VE BEEN IN THE MOVIES".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DellisTantor

First off. Mandalorians hate Jedi, they hate everything about them and everything that represents what a Jedi is. So, when I see a Mandalorian Jedi, it kinda twists my nipple. A Mandalorian would never use a Light Saber for several reasons. One, even as bad *** as Mandalorians are, they just don't have the focus and force power to use a Light Saber, here is a weapon that takes years and years to just get the feel of, and without the Force, it's extremely hard to do. Not saying that it can't be done, it just in all actuallity of most of the stories that I've read, wouldn't happen.

---

Actually whilst you are in part correct, Mandalorians DO indeed dislike Jedi you are also in part, wrong.
President has been set in the EU for a Mandalorian/Jedi hybrid with Karen Traviss's Triple Zero novel. Admittadly said character (I'm trying hard not to give anything away, for those that have yet to read it!) is a Jedi first BUT that character has been excepted by the Mandos, talks Mando'a, understands the culture AND wears Mandalorian armour. It remains to be seen where (if anywhere) Karen decides to take the character in the upcoming books but the fact remains a Mandalorian Jedi does exist.

Oh! and said character still uses a lightsaber and the Force.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DellisTantor

It has been stated in almost every source book...No Two Mandalorian Armors look the same.

---

Perhaps, but highly questionable and debatable as fact. Every Mandalorian armor I have seen is similar if not identical. I'm trying to imagine a rainbow-colored war and I just can't see it. As a "tribe", I see greater possibility of some similarity than absolute individuality. A timeline would definitely play a role.

And then again, that could be interpreted as meaning there are only slight differences.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShocKWavE

I'm trying to imagine a rainbow-colored war and I just can't see it.

---

Something to help your imagination:

http://clonetroopers.net/Forum/index...78&#entry48378

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OrtharRrith

The Knights Of The Empire have stepped upto the mark. We're U.K. based, 501st friendly, and now have members spreading across the U.S. We troop not just canon, but EU canon and quality custom Mando's and can be found at: Knights Of The Empire 8) Okay, shameless plug over!

As long as the essential ellements are there, taken from EU canon or film canon then how you put it together is entirely upto you. Just remember that it should look like it "COULD'VE BEEN IN THE MOVIES".



Actually whilst you are in part correct, Mandalorians DO indeed dislike Jedi you are also in part, wrong.
President has been set in the EU for a Mandalorian/Jedi hybrid with Karen Traviss's Triple Zero novel. Admittadly said character (I'm trying hard not to give anything away, for those that have yet to read it!) is a Jedi first BUT that character has been excepted by the Mandos, talks Mando'a, understands the culture AND wears Mandalorian armour. It remains to be seen where (if anywhere) Karen decides to take the character in the upcoming books but the fact remains a Mandalorian Jedi does exist.

Oh! and said character still uses a lightsaber and the Force.

---

Hmm, ironically I just picked that book up last night and began reading it. lol :lol

Karens books are almost bibles for all things Mando.

I hope we get to see more of Bard'ika in the next books...

Dellis..

No offense taken.

All I have is my Kast armor....so you know where my heart lies....



:jodo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wookieegunner

Something to help your imagination:

http://clonetroopers.net/Forum/index...78&#entry48378

---

I'm the guy on the far right with the ROTJ Fett Blaster.

Nice.

The boss and I (Xzen - Corbantis)

And although that is a bit across the board, there is definitely a limited color palette in Star Wars Galaxies for Mandalorian armor.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShocKWavE

Nice.

The boss and I (Xzen - Corbantis)

And although that is a bit across the board, there is definitely a limited color palette in Star Wars Galaxies for Mandalorian armor.

---

I quit SWG before I could get my set. Was on the Bloodfin server, the PvP server. Now Im testing on my friend's SWGEmu server, with my jango colored mando

Customs are what you make of them. Some people want to have theirs look like nothing we've seen and some want to just change colors on Jango or Boba, to each their own. I've said before that being custom means no one can tell you you're wrong, we can give advice on how we think it could look better but in the end it's up to the wearer and how they like it. For my three customs I'm keeping somethings straight on like the armor shape but I'm also going my own way, two of my helmets don't have the standard RF and the third is an off the wall gag/joke costume that I wanted to make to get some laughs.

I'm lucky to have found someone in the same city as me that wanted to make a custom, we shoot ideas to eachother all the time and if we get stuck we usually post on HVM to get feedback there. Of all the ideas I've come up with and shared I have not once been offended by someone's remark. If we all looked the same it would get boring, new ideas are what drives customs. I personally do not like making a costume that looks "cookie cutter", the more I can change while keeping it identifiable the more I like it.

While I think we do need some standards as far as quality we shouldn't knock someone down if we don't like their idea. If someone has cardboard armor we should encourage them to make a new set out of a better material, if they have a large shield on their gaunt instead of the flame thrower, rock on.

In the end I think we should just support each other in making the best costume we possibly can. On that note, I'm off to find more gagets for my armor.

Im new to the Dented helmet and Im kicking myself for not signing on sooner. Too bad there arent another 8 hours to a day.
I see some familiar names here and thats cool. This is a very interesting topic and I have to say there are some interesting opinions and statements on this thread.
Im relativlely new to custom costuming, and it was the guys and gals over at mandaloriansupercommandos.com that inspired me to get into the hobby. I really do enjoy the creativity that goes behind every costume to make it unique. It looked like alot of fun. but I do understand what some people mean about designs looking hastily slapped together, or rigs that are to far outside the box that they look nothing like something found in Star Wars. Now I know that not eveyone works for a visual effects studio but there are alot of awesome people out there costuming that give easy to follow tips and techniques that make a huge difference in the way a costume will come out in the end. Ive seen some really great Mandos out there and have recieved crit and tips from the Mandos at MSC and my beskar'gam is doing great. Its taking forever but its coming along. Maybe my sniper patience is coming in handy.
Maybe its because Ive been a soldier for so long, but there are some Mandos that just dont look the part, and people are afraid to tell one another their true opinion and dont offer a constructive crit in fear of offending. We have to be our own quality control, and we have to be prepared to take crit as well. I post my progress when I can because what looks "Star Warsy" to me might not to everyone else, and though my Mando is my own interpretation of a Mandalorian I also want it to be believable "in universe".
I think that if guys and gals stick to what Mandalorians are (super soldiers) and stick to their core needs (soldier gear/kit) without getting funky, the costume ends up looking good.
I have to say that without all of you costumers, the ones that know who I am, my beskar'gam would probably look like ****. Ive recieved alot of tips, and help, and crit that others obviously either dont get or dont care about.
We should definitely support one another to make the best we can. I just want to thank you all for getting me into an awesome hobby.

soo umm.... i read most o fthis. yes cool! love the topic think its moven great.... but what about modifying the armor? more important the breast plates? your considerd jango or boba because that is common, but what about changeing it? i said you btw cause i haven;t made a boba or jango, did help my friend though.

and i have herd say that there were many mando clan and Jango and bob balong to the fetts?.. am i right?

Well I am posting in this thread, because as of late, I have seen some cases of people saying things about customs...that..really kinda, not really bug me, but make me think.

I have seen posts of things like "That is really a CUSTOM" and so on, in different threads, over the past two days.

My thoughts about those types of comments: Nothing is truly custom, and the fact is, almost everything goes off of some sort of inspiration. No matter how cool, or out of the ordinary, or "non-traditional", it went off of something.

Especially with Mando costumes, the only reason we have Mandos is because of Boba and Jango Fett, then came the EU on them.

My question: What are the other mandos then if some people think they are not entirely "custom" ?
Just because they go "traditional" with their costume doesn't make it any less of a costume.

I used both, Jango and Boba parts on my costume, why? Because I can't make anything completely by hand, I don't have access to moulds and fiberglass, and things of that nature. Even the people who make something out of the ordinary go off of something already made.

There isn't a difference between any custom mandos, some are just better than others by quality, nothing is entirely Custom.

I agree with the Clayster and I'm glad you pulled this out of the depths because this is an interesting argument.

Its also kind of disconcerting when I see people painting the same old Rubies helmet exactly the same as say...a Jango and then just changing the blue to say...red. There's a little more that I think should go into a custom and I definitely see that in Marrow Sun's work in the Dented Variant forum.
Also, I think the mismatching of the Jango/Boba gear is a good way to "mix it up ."

Quote:

---

My question: What are the other mandos then if some people think they are not entirely "custom" ?
Just because they go "traditional" with their costume doesn't make it any less of a costume.

---

The Clayster, you shouldn't feel slighted that some people don't consider a "mix and match" or a "Jango repaint" an entirely "custom" mando. It's just the way some people are. Some consider that the classic "Jango repaint" to not be custom enough, others on the other hand, believe that it is. In truth, it's much like you said, not everyone has the resources or the skill to "remake" custom parts. It's a bit like cars, there has to be a base to build on, so you are correct in saying that nothing is completely custom, unless it is built from the ground up.

In all honesty, a custom mando should still be recognized as mandalorian, and if you do get called boba or Jango, then I believe you can take it both ways, either "yay, I look mandalorian enough to be mistaken for boba or Jango" or "bummer, I guess I'm not custom enough and still get mistaken for boba or Jango" and seriously, both reactions are totally legitimate. After all, you are doing the costume mostly for yourself.

I personally think that some customs really are overdone, while some just add that little extra to make their customs stand out from the crowd, a different helmet, a different armor plate setting or an outlandish accessory. All in all, yes I do believe that a custom is slightly more than just a repaint, but that's just my opinion, I don't believe that you have to build your custom part by part and make it completely different from the model it is based off of, since obviously, you still want it to be recognized as mandalorian.

I wouldn't worry too much about nay-sayers, because like I've said, not everyone has the skill or the resources to make or buy a scratch-built costume part(s). Much like "real-world" mandalorians, you do with what you have, and if it gets the job done, then it shouldn't matter what tools you are using.

As long as the effort you put in building it, and the end result makes you happy, then it shouldn't matter if anyone says it's not "custom" enough for their tastes. Remember, everyone has an opinion, and as long as they're not being rude to you, you should be able to respect it even if you disagree. (and vice-versa)

As for the rest of the thread; there will be colors that will be used more than others, black, for example is a very dominant color scheme among customs, and why not, it's considered "badäss" to be in black. Similarly, white is also very popular. On the other end of the spectrum, silver and green are avoided colors, specifically by those who don't want to be called boba or Jango.

The "multi-colored war" is still there, the contrast and the amount of variety is not just as pronounced. If you think about it, whole mandalorian squads could decide to be all in the same color scheme so that there is some form of "unity" in their group, or they could decide they much rather have individually colored armor so they can easily recognize each other. Either way, there's no right or wrong decision.

As for standards, the "looking like it could have stepped of a movie set" could work as a base, but then again, not everyone has the same standards as to what would constitute like looking as if it just stepped of a movie set either. So you see, unless there is a unique organization that will "standardize" custom mandalorian armor quality (much like the 501st), there will always be discrepancies and levels of quality in armor.

Ideally, our little group should be honest and give constructive criticism instead of saying that everything looks good, or "yuck" your custom looks bad. Honesty among the custom-builders is the only way we can assure that the level of standards for custom mandos will be elevated.

Comments like "another Jango repaint" doesn't help, but "hmmm, I personally think that it looks too much like Jango, maybe you can tweak the paint job a bit" is already a bit more helpful. Praise and criticism is good, but it should always be constructive.

As a member of the 501st and a Dented Variant, I feel I have a certain bond with both groups, but I have always and will always be a Mandalorian fan at heart. When I first saw Star Wars around 15 years ago, as a 7-year old, I was hooked by Boba Fett. The rest of the characters in the trilogy were cool, but none of them came close to the affection I had for the Fett man and his T-visor. :)

The 501st is an elite costuming group dedicated to the canon Star Wars universe. I find it frustrating to have spent so much time and money on a canon trooper outfit only to have someone criticize me and the rest of the 501st for not accepting any and all SW costumes submitted for membership. It undermines the credibility of the organization to let in any old person with an unworked latex trooper mask or a Rubies helmet. It's not discrimination, it's just the way the group works. You can't hold a grudge against the members of the 501st for sticking to the original goal of the group. I think that a group like the Mandalorian Mercs is exactly what's needed to satisfy the needs of the collective custom Mandalorian popuation.

That said, I find absolutely nothing wrong with custom Mandalorians. There were millions of them over the years, and no two of them looked the same. Different color schemes and armor pieces and weapons are a great way to add personality and a unique touch to a set of armor.

I do, however, tend to shy away from some of the more "Earthy" armor pieces, like soccer gear. I'm not saying that they can't be made to look "Star Warsy," but most of the time they are very easy to pick out for what they are. I also tend to avoid crossover armor pieces, like predator gear (left looking exactly like predator gear), as I see it purely as a novelty. Also, there needs to be at least SOME resemblance to known Mandalorian armor, otherwise anyone can take any outfit at all and say it's a "custom Mandalorian." The T-Visor (the only apparent consistency over the thousands of years) or the chest plates or something needs to be there to somehow identify it as Mandalorian.
----------------------------------------------------------
Summary:

- 501st is for high-quality, canon costumes. Deal with it. lol
- Customs are great, but should adhere to at least a minimal amount of recognizability
- Sports padding and other "Earthy" armor is hard to disguise.
- Mandalorian Mercs is a great idea.
- Above everything else...

Vode an. :skull

:jaster:jango:fettesb:jodo

:cheers to ya Jaster TK-1580.

Mando Mercs is a good site, they are doing a good job, but some costumes I see accepted in that club is kinda like:
"What are you guys trying to accomplish?"

NO offense, but that is what I see with some of the mandos there.

I run into a problem as mentioned earlier in this thread:

"I agree to a degree, but at the same time you are not really helping anyone out my dishonestly reinforcing low quality efforts.

There is so much knowledge here that even on a budget, you can learn to create very nice and accurate armor. Certainly over time, this becomes somewhat expensive, but it all does not need to happen over night. For $25.00 one can pick up a 8' x 4' sheet of sintra that goes a long way (GE Polymershapes). Many go straight to paint before giving a thought to fitting. Many grab random toy guns, hit them with paint, and call it a day. I realize that some are more experienced crafters than others, but I am of the opinion that anyone exercising enough determination and patience can become an expert. Criticism is largely subjective, but blindly reinforcing every effort neglects the criticized valuable potential. The lower the standard, the more the entire group deviates from its potential."

Qoute from Shockwave.

Firstly, let me say thank you to Clayster for bringing up long debated and at some times I'm sure heated argument.

I for one believe that evey non-Boba/Jango Mandalorian costume should be considered a custom Mandalorian costume. Building a custom takes imagination and creativity because unlike the Boba/Jango costumes our colors and many times design come from our own imagination. I for one know that I don't have anywhere near the skill level in molding as someone like Marrow Sun, but that shouldn't by any means make mine or anyone else any less of a custom character. It takes the same love for Mandalorians that we all have to commit to building a custom costume.

Do some customs need some work? Yes, I would definitely say they do. However just as Commander-13 has said, you can't just tell someone they look bad. The key is to be an example and criticize constructively while adding positives you see in their current costume and how they may add bits to make it better. Everyone has different costuming skill levels, and advancement comes from pushing positives, not negatives.

On to the topic of standardizing the custom mandalorian costume. As far as the look of the costume, I don't really think it's possible to do that. There are so many different armor styles and configurations that one would take years cataloging them. What we do in Mandalorian Mercs is this: We have 3 catagories of armor templates you can use you classify your character. Light = Boba style, Medium = Jango style, Heavy = 50% or more body coverage. We ask for good quality armor from our members as far as "standards" for quality goes. There is no assigned paint schemes, we leave that up to local clans to decide if they want to go that route. Custom armor is a very personal idea and manifestation, so we try to impose as little rules as possible while keeping with a good quality level. After discussing this with so many people here on TDH and within Mercs, this was really the best and only solution for quality and standards we felt we could honestly impose on non-canon costumes. I honestly think it's as far as it's gonna get for customs.

I think another thing that should always be focused on is that with organizations like TDH and Mercs, we give the Mandalorian community an idea and peers base for those who are crafting their first or sequential sets of armor. They come to our sites and forums, see pictures, and want to craft armor that looks as good or better then some that they see. Thats what I call a silent positive =D Because those are the people who take what they see and build on it, instead of building straight from the hip.

To go back to what Clayster said about being called repaints etc. I think the people who call us repaints need to go back and take a look at their own armor. Not giving us the credit as Custom Mandalorians in my eyes makes it look like their own costume is lacking and they are just saying to whomever "It's just a repaint, nothing special." to take away the attention. Everyones armor is special to them, it's an extension of their imagination and creativity. Not everyone is going to be the same, hence the word Custom. Not everyone has the same skill level as others, however they shouldn't be bashed for it, but nurtured and encouraged to fulfill the highest possible facet of creativity for their character.

To end I would like to thank The Clayster for his very good post on this topic, and I'd like to thank Jaster TK-1580 for believing in what Mandalorian Mercs is trying to accomplish for customs everywhere.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Clayster

Mando Mercs is a good site, they are doing a good job, but some costumes I see excepted in that club is kinda like:
"What are you guys trying to accomplish?"

NO offense, but that is what I see with some of the mandos there.

---

We hope to see costumes that while they are basically good enough to accept into the club, become improved by being around their peers. We have members who's armor may not be the greatest, but are constantly improving it based on what they see from other members. Some members are always going to stay at the "just get by" level. That's in every costuming club, be it 501st, RL, JA, or whomever. The only way to fight that is to surround them with top quality costumes and hope they are inspired to rise to that level to.

Everyday I see a member using a new technique that they hadn't used before to make their armor better. In my eyes thats improvement and the desire to improve.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Clayster

I run into a problem as mentioned earlier in this thread:

"I agree to a degree, but at the same time you are not really helping anyone out my dishonestly reinforcing low quality efforts.

There is so much knowledge here that even on a budget, you can learn to create very nice and accurate armor. Certainly over time, this becomes somewhat expensive, but it all does not need to happen over night. For $25.00 one can pick up a 8' x 4' sheet of sintra that goes a long way (GE Polymershapes). Many go straight to paint before giving a thought to fitting. Many grab random toy guns, hit them with paint, and call it a day. I realize that some are more experienced crafters than others, but I am of the opinion that anyone exercising enough determination and patience can become an expert. Criticism is largely subjective, but blindly reinforcing every effort neglects the criticized valuable potential. The lower the standard, the more the entire group deviates from its potential."

Qoute from Shockwave.

---

I agree with that Clayster. However, I'm of the opinion that you can't add in a negative without a positive either. Just always seems to work out a lot better if you start the criticism on an up note instead of a down. The moment you begin talking bad about someone's work they become defensive, and then your behind a wall that you gotta pull down before you can start helping them. Even the worst costume at some point has a positive to build on, even if the only positive is that the person wanted to build the costume.

Imagine this: a section of TDH or some other costuming site where everyone who wanted to could submit picture(s) of their costume to be rated by the rest of the community. A comment system to allow constructive criticisms, and a feature to allow users to update their pictures as their costumes improve.

You could even go so far as to have two member galleries - one for initiates, who are just starting or are in the process of constructing their outfits, and then one for veterans, or those who have finished their costumes and achieved a certain rating. If the user is finished working on their outfit, and hasn't achieved a "finished" rating, then they could just send a message to a moderator and let them make the deciding vote.

It would depend heavily on the good intentions of the userbase, but I think that TDH could pull it off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jaster TK-1580

Imagine this: a section of TDH or some other costuming site where everyone who wanted to could submit picture(s) of their costume to be rated by the rest of the community. A comment system to allow constructive criticisms, and a feature to allow users to update their pictures as their costumes improve.

You could even go so far as to have two member galleries - one for initiates, who are just starting or are in the process of constructing their outfits, and then one for veterans, or those who have finished their costumes and achieved a certain rating. If the user is finished working on their outfit, and hasn't achieved a "finished" rating, then they could just send a message to a moderator and let them make the deciding vote.

It would depend heavily on the good intentions of the userbase, but I think that TDH could pull it off.

---

As good of an idea as this is, I think this would only serve to separate the community in the end. You would end up with the *Have* and *Have not* individuals, and vets who would end up looking through magnifying glasses etc.

The initiative for rating would have to come from the costume creator themselves for it to be and stay a non-biased opinion. Submit your own costume forum is a good idea, but then isn't that what we have already though?

OK, my 2 cents....

I not keen on customs, but I'm not adverse to them either. THe only thing I do find "annoying" for lack of a better word is how often we see a Boba or Jango with a simple change in paint job.

If you buy a red Camaro, paint it blue and add some racing stripes it's still a camaro.

I absolutely love MS' custom work. He completely mods the helmet and armour to create something completely spectacular.

I in no way want to offend anyone and I am not bashing any custom mando's we have here, I just think there is more to a mando than a simple respray

Well I was kind of thinking that the "Haves" could educate and help out the "Have Nots." TDH has been known to come up with a 'Pay it Forward' of sorts, sending out free armor pieces on good faith that the recipient would reciprocate and send something that they aren't using forward to someone else who needs it.

I was thinking more along the lines of a dedicated page, maybe on each person's profile, with a radio-button set of 1-10 or 1-5 options, where, should the user choose to submit their costume for review, the general population of the board could rate their work. Purely voluntary, but beneficial in the sense that one could put their work up to be rated without everyone having to shuffle through pages and pages of text to actually see the pictures and/or rating.

I dunno. It was just a thought. I wanna see everyone with their own uniquely awesome armor, as I really enjoy seeing costumes evolve.

While that is true, I agree to a degree of what you say.
Mine is a "simple re-spray" with a few different things done to it, and will have more over time, but if you base a character off of something, you still want it to look like that something you went off of.

A simple re-painting Boba or Jango still looks cool, while there may be more to it, it still takes talent to make something different enough to set itself apart from it's own counterpart.

I find it hard to stray completely away from Boba and Jango, since those are the ones that you see all the time, and are very well done.

It still takes an active imagination to do something different, be it quality or not.

to Novall: I realize there will always be those people who just get by, but in the case of Custom Mandalorians, they are usually known, and expected to be low quality, so when you have a few members with "Just getting by" costumes, then it brings the club down as well. I have no problem with customs, but the things that bother me, I see in your club, not that I am the president of Customs or anything, that is just my opinion.

Also, on any mando forum, if you post progress, someone seems to come along and almost copies your replica/prop, of your own creation. Take something simple as a kama, and put it on a mando, then once one person sees it, he does it, then another, then another. I am not saying that anyone here or at LFL invented a combat skirt, but once someone does somethign a tad out of the ordinary on a costume, some people tend to copy it.

I kinda have a problem with that sort of thing, because it then makes your costume look like the rest, and as a custom, I try to set myself apart from the others by doing things of that sort, but I now see that my ideas (while they weren't that original) on my costume have been done after me, and a few times before me. Which is prior to always happen no matter what.

I used Shockwave's custom as inspiration, for some things, I think his is awesome.

I love all the imagination that goes on here, just some people don't like me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mandalore697

OK, my 2 cents....

I not keen on customs, but I'm not adverse to them either. THe only thing I do find "annoying" for lack of a better word is how often we see a Boba or Jango with a simple change in paint job.

If you buy a red Camaro, paint it blue and add some racing stripes it's still a camaro.

I absolutely love MS' custom work. He completely mods the helmet and armour to create something completely spectacular.

I in no way want to offend anyone and I am not bashing any custom mando's we have here, I just think there is more to a mando than a simple respray

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jaster TK-1580

Well I was kind of thinking that the "Haves" could educate and help out the "Have Nots." TDH has been known to come up with a 'Pay it Forward' of sorts, sending out free armor pieces on good faith that the recipient would reciprocate and send something that they aren't using forward to someone else who needs it.

I was thinking more along the lines of a dedicated page, maybe on each person's profile, with a radio-button set of 1-10 or 1-5 options, where, should the user choose to submit their costume for review, the general population of the board could rate their work. Purely voluntary, but beneficial in the sense that one could put their work up to be rated without everyone having to shuffle through pages and pages of text to actually see the pictures and/or rating.

I dunno. It was just a thought. I wanna see everyone with their own uniquely awesome armor, as I really enjoy seeing costumes evolve.

---

I've posted your idea with a slight change (We would use the voting function built into our forum) to our CVDC at Mercs to see what they think about doing something like this. Basically it would be the costume owner posting a poll with 1-5 being the voting criteria. 1 being awful and 5 being awesome. However, nobody could vote and not list what they think may need improvement to the costume, and we would have to police voting numbers for that to work correctly also. The poster could put in a description on what they are going for as far as look for the costume, maybe a short description etc.

Is that what your basically talking about Jaster TK-1580?

I personally don't think that could ever work, beacuse even if the person puts 1 or 2 for the review, it still means your costume sucks, no matter how nice you put the 1 or 2.:doh

And it isn't like you could do something being an admin to modify the person's post to say 3 or 4, that would be unfair to the poster.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NovallTalon

I've posted your idea with a slight change (We would use the voting function built into our forum) to our CVDC at Mercs to see what they think about doing something like this. Basically it would be the costume owner posting a poll with 1-5 being the voting criteria. 1 being awful and 5 being awesome. However, nobody could vote and not list what they think may need improvement to the costume, and we would would have to police voting numbers for that to work correctly also. The poster could put in a description on what they are going for as far as look for the costume, maybe a short description etc.

Is that what your basically talking about Jaster TK-1580?

---

Although my current project is not a custom, the same effort is going into my scratch made Jango as any custom builder puts into his suit. I'm all for customs, and I can understand why the 501st dosen't allow them. ( I don't necessarily agree, but I do understand ) My main beef with customs, is that when planning and constructing them, you put your best effort into making every part look like it fits into the Star Wars universe. After putting over two plus years of work into designing and building an awesome custom suit, to ruin it by trooping around with an M-16, just seems a shame to me when some additional effort could've gone into making that M-16 look more Star Wars-ish.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Clayster

Also, on any mando forum, if you post progress, someone seems to come along and almost copies your replica/prop, of your own creation. Take something simple as a kama, and put it on a mando, then once one person sees it, he does it, then another, then another. I am not saying that anyone here or at LFL invented a combat skirt, but once someone does somethign a tad out of the ordinary on a costume, some people tend to copy it.

I kinda have a problem with that sort of thing, because it then makes your costume look like the rest, and as a custom, I try to set myself apart from the others by doing things of that sort, but I now see that my ideas (while they weren't that original) on my costume have been done after me, and a few times before me. Which is prior to always happen no matter what.

---

Whats that old saying..."Mimicry is the highest form of flattery?" or something like that. People are going copy things they like, thats just human nature :cheers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jango72

Although my current project is not a custom, the same effort is going into my scratch made Jango as any custom builder puts into his suit. I'm all for customs, and I can understand why the 501st dosen't allow them. ( I don't necessarily agree, but I do understand ) My main beef with customs, is that when planning and constructing them, you put your best effort into making every part look like it fits into the Star Wars universe. After putting over two plus years of work into designing and building an awesome custom suit, to ruin it by trooping around with an M-16, just seems a shame to me when some additional effort could've gone into making that M-16 look more Star Wars-ish.

---

I agree with your comments, except the ones about The 501st. They used to accept custom mandos until 2005.

I forget the reason why, but I do know why, and I can't explain the reasoning without taking a while to do so.

But if The 501st did accept custom mandalorians, as said earlier, then A bunch of low quality costumes would want to join, and no doubt some would get accepted into the Club, it is bound to happen. They don't want that. Sith Lords go through Spanos, BH's go through...somewhere, and things of that sort. It is hard to find a low quality SL in The Legion, because Spanos is in charge of that, and he does a graet job of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NovallTalon

Whats that old saying..."Mimicry is the highest form of flattery?" or something like that. People are going copy things they like, thats just human nature :cheers

---

And it is also the easiest way to make your costume look 'the Norm"
And if the person does it better than you (not literally you, but ya know) then your costume looks like a failed attempt, while they really copied you.

Thats true, but again your not going to stop people from doing things like that. It's impossible to try. Just like people with similar color schemes. I can understand where your coming from though, and yes it may be a little irritating. Thats something I usually let roll off because I can't control how they make their costume.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NovallTalon

Thats true, but again your not going to stop people from doing things like that. It's impossible to try. Just like people with similar color schemes. I can understand where your coming from though, and yes it may be a little irritating. Thats something I usually let roll off because I can't control how they make their costume.

---

Oh no, I know I can't stop them, but if it is clearly copied or "inspired" then it irritates me in some cases.

Quote:

---

Oh no, I know I can't stop them, but if it is clearly copied or "inspired" then it irritates me in some cases.

---

Unfortunately, there will always be those that will copy and never think twice about giving credit to the originator of the idea/concept/design. It's the nature of most things, including costuming/costume design and character design. In most cases, your best bet is to put down your progress pics once your custom is done, that way there's no way your ideas are copied by others that have a faster turnaround time of costume-building.

There are some "artists" out there that thrive on "borrowing" and taking "inspiration" from other less known artists and never ever bother mentioning where they got the idea, let alone give the person they got the idea from any credit whatsoever. Unfortunately, that's how it is, there are some very unscrupulous people, and the worst part is, it's still considered theft, albeit much more difficult to prove since it's theft of intellectual property so to speak and not something "concrete" like a stereo system or whatnot.

I've been guilty of doing fan art/fan fiction but I always always give credit to where credit is due and never claim those specific designs/characters as my own. Not everyone is the same. For future reference, if you intend to make another custom/improve your current custom, only post pics of your project when it is already actually done or at least almost to the point where it is done. It will not stop people from copying but at least you've established that you were the origin of the idea, or at least brought the idea to light. The world is full of unoriginal hacks, it's just unfortunate that many of them never give credit to those they pilfer their ideas from.

Don't be discouraged by your custom ending up being with the "norm" but instead take it as a challenge to be even more "original" and come up with ideas that will set your custom mando apart from the pile. You'll find that your custom will "evolve" throughout it's design stage and the actual worn costume, similar to the evolution from clone trooper to storm trooper, and somewhere in between you'll find a look that you'll be happy with, regardless if other people copy/get inspiration from it.

I know it can be frustrating but plan ahead and "reveal" your custom only when you're good and ready.

Ok, Im chiming in

My opinion is....Who cares?

So what if your costume is canon or non-canon. Boba, Jango or whoever...it doesnt matter.

The important thing to remember about costuming is this...its a hobby. We are all here bc we like to design and make our own costumes. It doesnt matter if its canon or not, each costume we make is an individual work or art. Anyone who slags anothers work simply because of its validity in the SW universe is a biggot.

Remember, we may all have different tastes and preferences, but we have one thing in common; we all love Mandalorian costumes. Anything else is detail.

So canons and customs unite. There should be no enemies here. Only friends with a common interest.

Salude!
:cheers:cheers
:fettpre:fettesb:fettrotj:jaster:jodo:jango:albino

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dent_ghost 8

Ok, Im chiming in

My opinion is....Who cares?

So what if your costume is canon or non-canon. Boba, Jango or whoever...it doesnt matter.

The important thing to remember about costuming is this...its a hobby. We are all here bc we like to design and make our own costumes. It doesnt matter if its canon or not, each costume we make is an individual work or art. Anyone who slags anothers work simply because of its validity in the SW universe is a biggot.

Remember, we may all have different tastes and preferences, but we have one thing in common; we all love Mandalorian costumes. Anything else is detail.

So canons and customs unite. There should be no enemies here. Only friends with a common interest.

Salude!
:cheers:cheers
:fettpre:fettesb:fettrotj:jaster:jodo:jango:albino

---

Best reply to this entire thread =D :thumbup:love

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tubachris85x

The debate over customs and "canons" in my opinion is pointless. Its like trying to argue with someone how chocolate is better then vanilla ice cream, no one can ever win or lose, so why argue? The way I think of customs is that its a persons interpritation of a character in the SW universe. Its somethin people have been doing since stories were first told and written. For instance, in the epic of Beowulf, you read the character of Grendal as a ferocious monster that is huge, hairy, and has tremedous claws. Thiis is where peoples interpritation come in. Some might percive this monster has a Bear like creature, or a huminoid warewolf. Its all about how someones sees things, and they do it all the time in movies. Everyone's seen all concept art, and what first thoughts and looks were before the final film came out.

So what Im tryin to say, is that customs are everywhere if you think about it. Also, its a art. Creating a character, and designing it takes as much effort as it does for famous characters most commonly seen. So no one is right to say thst customs are wrong or that they are inaccurate. Keep making art and dont worry about negativity from people who disapprove of "customs." Just keep doing what your doing.

-tubachris
(The world is full of characters, the SW universe is much wider, whos to say that there are only a set number of people there?)

---

i totally agree with chris here...the different types of custom charecters (cannon/non-cannon) are down to peoples own like and dislikes...there should never be a set of guidlines in place because a custom mando isan extention of the creators imagination...whether they want it cannon or not is up to them...not up to some pre aranged person to tell people how to think...i quote 300

"freedom isnt free at all"

think about that...custom is by deffinition freedom to create a costume that is in all ways an extension of your imagination...to put guidlines on it is to take away that freedom


thats all i wanted to say

Well, here's my shekel's worth...I agree with about most everything written by most everyone above, but this is a subject that me and my oldest son go around and around about all the time. My argument is that no matter what costume you make, it has to have an identifiable SW element to it, or you might as well put on a Klingon uniform and call yourself Boba's third cousin twice removed...if the general public can't finger you for what they think you are from their exposure to canon materials, whether Boba or Jango (or Stormtrooper...they call me one of those all the time), then you have to ask: am I really doing this right? Is this really SW costuming? Let's face it...99-percent of folks on here do it to be seen and recognized, if not by the public, at least by appreciative peers. You want people to identify you; to know who you're supposed to be. But I feel you must have a few recognizable, key elements to be successful (the "look and feel" Shock was talking about earlier), and to be specifically labeled a Mandalorian: the helmet with T-shaped visor, the dished mandibles, the chest armor (whether it be day-glo green or magenta). If you build on those, then more power to ye.

But paramount above all, no matter what you wear, we should all have acceptance for each others visions and interpretations of those key elements. Nothing kills a hobby faster than finger-pointing, hostile criticism and the nah-nah-boo-boo $__t that goes on in associations like this all the time (the mods do a great job in keeping that to a minimum here). If I hear or see too much of that bull, I personally am outta here...I'm grown up now (sorta), and I left that behavior on the playground a long time ago. If you can't say something nice....

Well...that's enough of my diatribe....for now...:lol

Rob

amen :D

Well, I once again have to agree with Clayster in that if you're going to put yourself on the line and apply for a group such as the 501st..then it would seem that the group should have guidelines. Just because the group exists doesn't mean that they have to let just anybody in. If you're costume is below-par than I think its best if you are not allowed to troop until its improved upon. Personally, if I wasn't aware of my costume's "cheapness" than I would be pretty thankful to be told that maybe I should put a little more work into it.

Thats just my two cents. :)

Quote:

---

Well, I once again have to agree with Clayster in that if you're going to put yourself on the line and apply for a group such as the 501st..then it would seem that the group should have guidelines. Just because the group exists doesn't mean that they have to let just anybody in. If you're costume is below-par than I think its best if you are not allowed to troop until its improved upon. Personally, if I wasn't aware of my costume's "cheapness" than I would be pretty thankful to be told that maybe I should put a little more work into it.

---

Agreed, but the problem is relative more to the custom factor. For the 501st there is some form of standard because the organization follows specific guidelines with regards to the different costumes. Troopers have to have a specific look/quality to their armor.

For customs it's a bit more complicated in the sense that since it's a custom, anyone can literrally make anything, so it's difficult to set guidelines that everyone "must" follow. You can't say the custom has to have this or that, or none of this or that. Stormtroopers are all the "same" so there's a baseline that can be followed while custom mandos can be helmetless, sleeveless, barechested (though never seen one yet) with gauntlets, without gauntlets etc.... the variety is so vast that you cannot have a specific baseline to follow. You can't even use the T-visored helmet as a baseline since there are canon images of mandos with double-visors.

While we can all "control" each other for quality, quality is also subjective, and some costumers will simply say, "well my stuff is custom it's supposed to look like that."

Therein lies the problem, "custom" implies freedom and unless there is some sort of organization similar to the 501st that will "rally" all mandos together, quality and looks will always be a free-for-all. You have to admit, the 501st standards are high and does limit who can join based on those standards, whereas there are no specific standards for customs because there is no specific "official" organization customs can join.

And even if a custom organization were to be formed, there is no guarantee that anyone would actually want to join, considering that the new standards the organization would require might be too stringent for some. Most people that made a custom, created it specifically so they would not have any limitations to what their costume would look like, otherwise they would have made a Jango or a Boba and joined the 501st.

Dilemma on both ends, start an organization that no one would join? Lower your standards so people can/would join? An organization for what reason, to follow in the stead of the 501st? Unless someone steps up to the plate and decides to set something up and follows the same strict standards as the 501st with regards to QUALITY and not the overall LOOK of the custom. Problem is, quality for a custom most often is related to the overall look, so again, another dilemma.

If someone has a solution, please do come forward, otherwise we just have to accept that there will always be discrepancies in terms of custom quality.

Well, were working toward having the organization already with Mercs. What we need more then anything is people with the same idea and mindset to hop on board and help us to mature as an organization specifically for customs. Like I've stated before, the only way your going to inspire someone to change is to surround them with something they want to change in to.

I've seen some great looking customs turned down by clubs because they didn't hold up to their visual standards and not quality. As you stated commander-13 that turns alot of people away because it destroys the reason your a custom mando in the first place.

It's a very very tough balance to achieve honestly, and I'm hoping that we are working our way there.

Ahh..point taken. Hmph. This is a tough situation. Unless the group does what the 501st does, and require photos to get in. But then again, that may turn people away or cause them to be hesitant to joining. I guess I really can't think of a member-friendly way to solve this problem...:doh

I guess in the end, you have to ask yourself "Do I want my group to be known for top quality costumes, or do I want it to be known for its all-inclusive nature in letting everyone in?" It seems like there's no midpoint. You can't have standards, as that limits peoples' creativity. You can't just let in everyone, as it was stated earlier, because you could just "put on a Klingon uniform and call yourself Boba's third cousin twice removed." Standards and goals are what set apart a bunch of people milling about from a true organization.

You can't possibly hope to make everyone happy all of the time.The only solution I can think of is for the group to pick a side and stick with it. Make no exceptions once you've chosen a side.

Vode an.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kashyyyk4ABY

Ahh..point taken. Hmph. This is a tough situation. Unless the group does what the 501st does, and require photos to get in. But then again, that may turn people away or cause them to be hesitant to joining. I guess I really can't think of a member-friendly way to solve this problem...:doh

---

We do require a full body pic in armor that matches one of our 3 basic templates as well as a good quality (we don't demand movie quality) armor. We have been a tad lax on the quality of some costumes, because again you have the issue of what is quality.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jaster TK-1580

I guess in the end, you have to ask yourself "Do I want my group to be known for top quality costumes, or do I want it to be known for its all-inclusive nature in letting everyone in?" It seems like there's no midpoint. You can't have standards, as that limits peoples' creativity. You can't just let in everyone, as it was stated earlier, because you could just "put on a Klingon uniform and call yourself Boba's third cousin twice removed." Standards and goals are what set apart a bunch of people milling about from a true organization.

You can't possibly hope to make everyone happy all of the time.The only solution I can think of is for the group to pick a side and stick with it. Make no exceptions once you've chosen a side.

Vode an.

---

Oh yes, I definitely have to agree with that. Thats something early on that we said we would not let happen in the club. We have/had been discussing an out of armor uniform or clothing that we could wear at con tables, and some people brought up the question of weather or not they could join in the out of armor clothing. That was a resounding no from myself and the CVDC as we knew and still know that it leads to exactly what your talking about. You have to have identifiable Mandalorian armor, lol we are definitely not going down the road of bathrobe jedi.

I'm new here - so hopefully my point won't be taken wrong. I started my "Custom" with the intent that if Lucas himself ever needed a "Desert Mandalorian" he wouldn't have to look far and his prop dept would have the day off. I had alot of help - one - ASOK lead me here and aided me in the correct way to do weathering that looks real. I wanted not to take away from Lucas and his vision. But I knew that doing a custom it had to "maybe" look a little different. As one member pointed out -- Mandalorians fought in several wars - picked up several traits of other cultures, etc. Which is why I incorporated a few things from my experiences in Iraq. At the end of the day - it still is "high;y" representative of what Lucas presented in the Star Wars movies. I can only say this - if one decides to stay close to home - perhaps not much will be said and those who are S/W fans will see that this "mando" did just walk off the set. However, if one decides to stray away from what Lucas has defined - then there might be criticism from a large population - i.e. "cannon folks". I have a Stormtrooper armor set - I went out and bought the correct hand pieces - since my frown is black - and I have the static burst mod in there as well. I wanted that so when people talk to me -- it sounds and looks like the movie version. This is how I approached the "Custom." The photo above with Jango and the other mando in green detail is a perfect representation of what should really be considered.

IF members want to do a custom and their budget is tight -- they are not really "art'sy" - this is the best place to come and read and meet those who have done it and been successful. I read a large number of posts here way before I started my costume: http://www.thedentedhelmet.com/f34/desert-mandalorian-warrior-j-fenn-20544/

I did so - did my homework - because I wanted it to be real. It was personal - but also professional towards those guys and gals that were before me. I didn't want to take away from their hard work in detail when doing screen accurate bounty hunters. This brings to my point. Being creative is fine - but seeing what is out there and viewing the situation - then understanding brings one to the conclusion of what should be done. For example : I have seen jet packs on here that should not be worn - I'm not saying mine is the best -- but I looked at what was out there - bought the materials -- asked questions - shopped for months to gather what I thought would work - and then started. My pack is heavier than the fiberglass one for sell - but I only spent about $85 on it. Yes I worked on it for about a month off/on - stopped and thought about the next stage. I was careful and not rushed. I wanted this to look real - so when a child came up or a S/W fan -- it would continue to inspire them to believe in Lucas and his work.

This of course is mine opinion and I hope that I did not offend anyone - just a different perspective on what as been discussed here. I - like everyone here - will help out anyone doing a custom. I had to hand make my jet pack and gauntlets from WOF & Lisafett templates. Yes I stayed close to home - but I saw it staying within Lucas and his vision - which I believe has set the standard which we all want to express. Therefore - if someone has never done a costume and needs help -- I have several photos of each stage of building each piece and what materials I used to complete it. I will send out those with instructions to help maintain a certain defined standard that we all know and respect - which is why we do what we do - continue the fantasy of Star Wars for generations to come!

Over to you guys,

Joe

Well spoken, Joe. :thumbsup I've seen your armor, and it's definately high quality; you should be proud.
Rob

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TK1799jhw

I'm new here - so hopefully my point won't be taken wrong. I started my "Custom" with the intent that if Lucas himself ever needed a "Desert Mandalorian" he wouldn't have to look far and his prop dept would have the day off. I had alot of help - one - ASOK lead me here and aided me in the correct way to do weathering that looks real. I wanted not to take away from Lucas and his vision. But I knew that doing a custom it had to "maybe" look a little different. As one member pointed out -- Mandalorians fought in several wars - picked up several traits of other cultures, etc. Which is why I incorporated a few things from my experiences in Iraq. At the end of the day - it still is "high;y" representative of what Lucas presented in the Star Wars movies. I can only say this - if one decides to stay close to home - perhaps not much will be said and those who are S/W fans will see that this "mando" did just walk off the set. However, if one decides to stray away from what Lucas has defined - then there might be criticism from a large population - i.e. "cannon folks". I have a Stormtrooper armor set - I went out and bought the correct hand pieces - since my frown is black - and I have the static burst mod in there as well. I wanted that so when people talk to me -- it sounds and looks like the movie version. This is how I approached the "Custom." The photo above with Jango and the other mando in green detail is a perfect representation of what should really be considered.

IF members want to do a custom and their budget is tight -- they are not really "art'sy" - this is the best place to come and read and meet those who have done it and been successful. I read a large number of posts here way before I started my costume: http://www.thedentedhelmet.com/showthread.php?t=20544

I did so - did my homework - because I wanted it to be real. It was personal - but also professional towards those guys and gals that were before me. I didn't want to take away from their hard work in detail when doing screen accurate bounty hunters. This brings to my point. Being creative is fine - but seeing what is out there and viewing the situation - then understanding brings one to the conclusion of what should be done. For example : I have seen jet packs on here that should not be worn - I'm not saying mine is the best -- but I looked at what was out there - bought the materials -- asked questions - shopped for months to gather what I thought would work - and then started. My pack is heavier than the fiberglass one for sell - but I only spent about $85 on it. Yes I worked on it for about a month off/on - stopped and thought about the next stage. I was careful and not rushed. I wanted this to look real - so when a child came up or a S/W fan -- it would continue to inspire them to believe in Lucas and his work.

This of course is mine opinion and I hope that I did not offend anyone - just a different perspective on what as been discussed here. I - like everyone here - will help out anyone doing a custom. I had to hand make my jet pack and gauntlets from WOF & Lisafett templates. Yes I stayed close to home - but I saw it staying within Lucas and his vision - which I believe has set the standard which we all want to express. Therefore - if someone has never done a costume and needs help -- I have several photos of each stage of building each piece and what materials I used to complete it. I will send out those with instructions to help maintain a certain defined standard that we all know and respect - which is why we do what we do - continue the fantasy of Star Wars for generations to come!

Over to you guys,

Joe

---

These are the sort of goals anyone should have when they start their armor. I think one thing we also see is that people start their armor, then decided on what they want it to look like while they are working on it instead of having a plan from the get-go. I have spent no less then a year working on my armor from start to now. Upgrading, repainting, leather crafting, wiring, designing, etc. Everything started from a single plan, and before I started on the *extras* I had the bulk of my armor completed. I have prided myself on having as many working parts on my armor as I can stuff in. To me that makes it more realistic, and adds a more character feel to it. I have however always kept to the starting plan, and add new parts to the plan as I find new things that I feel look good with my armor.

Planing your armor, thats probably the most important step next to patience!

Jeaze, this thread has gotten bigger since yesterday, this is awesome.

Well now, I agree with almost all the opinions here, and my same view on custom quality has been brought up, and I am happy to see I am not the only one.


The problem I think that any custom mando club would come to, is that since there aren't any standards, than there isn't much you can do if there is a bad costume up for approval..

Who am I to say what is bad? I understand , it is custom, it is your imagination, but if I don't like the costume I think it is bad.

A bad mando costume in my opinion- Non-modded Rubies helmets, no armor, or armor from ebay (if it fits you, then it looks good, but on a majority of people, it doesn't fit, and looks very awkward). Sports gear, Nylon for vital areas of the costume (belts, ammo belts) and swords. Those are my opinions, and I am sticking to them, that is just me. If I offend, I apologize.

If I was running a custom club, it wouldn't entirely be custom, because I would be, in some people's minds, Nazi like.

Anyone who believes The 501st is Nazi like, doesn't really get what they are striving to do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Clayster

Anyone who believes The 501st is Nazi like, doesn't really get what they are striving to do.

---

Very true.

What I don't understand is why anyone would gripe to have customs included.?? If you want to join the 501st, get an "approved" costume and join, then wear whatever your little heart desires.

Being a squad leader myself, I would never tell one of my guys/gals they could not wear a custom costume to an event, unless it was a formal LFL event.

D75

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delta75

Very true.

What I don't understand is why anyone would gripe to have customs included.?? If you want to join the 501st, get an "approved" costume and join, then wear whatever your little heart desires.

Being a squad leader myself, I would never tell one of my guys/gals they could not wear a custom costume to an event, unless it was a formal LFL event.

D75

---

Yep, exactly, unless it is a formal event or an LFL event, you can wear whatever you want to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Clayster

Anyone who believes The 501st is Nazi like, doesn't really get what they are striving to do.

---

Clayster...maybe the Nazi's were striving to be 501st-like...:lol
Rob
(OK, you harda$$e$ out there...that was a joke...don't get bent...you gotta learn to laugh at these things...I'm just funnin'....)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ghostsoldier

Clayster...maybe the Nazi's were striving to be 501st-like...:lol
Rob
(OK, you harda$$e$ out there...that was a joke...don't get bent...you gotta learn to laugh at these things...I'm just funnin'....)

---

Well I'm not laughing! As a Nazi, I'm deeply offended by your insensitivity! ;)

Wish I had something new to add to this discussion, but I don't really so I'll just stick with this: I'm not sure if TDH is really the place for any "acceptable level" standards. The 501st is and that's probably the way it always will be, other places like the Mando Mercs will have a more difficult time defining what is and isn't up to scratch. To me TDH seems like a place for any level, where people get and give advice. Sure it says "elite costuming forum", but I always took that to refer to the caliber of the people and their willingness to share their expertise, not just the 120% accurate SE Boba's.

Anyway, just my thoughts on the matter. Rock on custom mandos, rock on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pesh

To me TDH seems like a place for any level, where people get and give advice. Sure it says "elite costuming forum", but I always took that to refer to the caliber of the people and their willingness to share their expertise...

---

Pesh...you hit the nail on the head, pal!:thumbsup
Rob

Well, now I'm hoping I can do a competent job with my custom. :?

I can see the validity of The Clayster's comments about the unmodded helmets, and the lack of armor or having armor that doesn't fit properly. Unmodded sports gear can look poor as well, but I'd think that if it was modded then it could look good. The nylon I'm not so sure about, and I don't see any reason for excluding swords. But then maybe I'm a bit too fond of my vibroblades in KOTORII.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Clayster

Jeaze, this thread has gotten bigger since yesterday, this is awesome.

Well now, I agree with almost all the opinions here, and my same view on custom quality has been brought up, and I am happy to see I am not the only one.


The problem I think that any custom mando club would come to, is that since there aren't any standards, than there isn't much you can do if there is a bad costume up for approval..

Who am I to say what is bad? I understand , it is custom, it is your imagination, but if I don't like the costume I think it is bad.

A bad mando costume in my opinion- Non-modded Rubies helmets, no armor, or armor from ebay (if it fits you, then it looks good, but on a majority of people, it doesn't fit, and looks very awkward). Sports gear, Nylon for vital areas of the costume (belts, ammo belts) and swords. Those are my opinions, and I am sticking to them, that is just me. If I offend, I apologize.

If I was running a custom club, it wouldn't entirely be custom, because I would be, in some people's minds, Nazi like.

Anyone who believes The 501st is Nazi like, doesn't really get what they are striving to do.

---

I think i can agree with some of that above list, but disagree on some too.
I guess it all comes down to budget really. An 18 year old student living with his parents doesn't really have much money to burn. Or the newbie who thinks the ebay armour will fit him without taking measurements. These people have a long way to go to learn, but making mistakes is usually the only way any of us learn, i learnt very fast after getting ripped off for 1500US because i didnt know what was what. I was offered what i know know to be a full suit of Bobamaker armour a few years ago, but instead recieved a set of Altmanns, model number P.O.S.

Unmodded rubies helmets look awful, but that is because the more experienced of us know that there is better out there. Modding a bucket on your own for the first time is a terrifying concept, as is figuring out how to not to look like *&^% without ruining it. As i said earlier, the fastest way to learn is usually from making a rather large mistake. i have to admit, it does bug me sometimes when stuff is just repainted and unmodded, but alot of the time it works out fine, and the costume looks great. I can't remember his name on here (tantive IV?) but whoever that guy is that was doing the medic Mando, i think that is the first time i liked seeing a yellow suit of ANYTHING. Very little modding was done, yet he was able to creat esomething different and unique, so my hat, or bucket off to you friend for your outstanding work. But i would like to sa ythat it is not too much effort, if you want to make your helmet different, to just add one or two extra greebles here and there. Junk metal is very easy to come by, and you ca nget some fantastic looking "sci-fi" looking pieces out of stuff like used plumbing pieces, stuff lying around a construction yard that is left over, etc. Those handful of greebles can go a long way to making you stand out.

As far as the swords go, i welcome this change, as it is well established that someone who is trained in Bladed combat in the SW universe is a nasty, deadly person fully able to beat blaster weilding thugs. As long as it doesn't look "earthly" for want of a better world, i'm all for it as it gives that extra edge to this wonderful universe. I myself am using a bladed weapon for my primary, and i think it looks very SW universe, but i could be wrong.

The nylon point is also another intersting one you bring up. To a certain extent, i do agree that alot of the nylon stuff is not something i persoanlly would use. But it all comes down to the style of the nylon being used, some of it can be excessively gaudy and plastic looking, while on the other hand you can get some top notch military webbing belts made entirely out of nylon that look like standard issue to some backwater planet peacekeeper. Take some time looking for what you want, and ALWAYS have your entire costume pictured in your mind, then buy the accessory. A great looking accessory is useless, and potentially expensive when you realise it does not fit with anything else on the armour. Always ask yourself if it will go wit hthe overall look, if you can get away with some small changes so it does, or if there is something on the next shelf that will be a better choice.

The key, as always friends is imagination, but also self-satisfaction. Your Mandalorian is just that. YOURS. costuming should be something you do to relieve stress, make people smile because you wan them to. NO point in screaming at someone 3000miles away that cant even see you now is there.;)

There are some horrible customs out there, and there are some out of the park awesome ones too, we all know who they are. Hard work, patience, and lots of mistakes got them to where they are today, so keep on dreaming, drawing and glueing until you reach that point brothers, you should all be proud of yourselves for being part of such a wonderful group of people. Keep it up guys,
Matt

I cannot understand this no swords concept everyone is having issues with, well not everyone but many.

It had been established in the movies that bladed weapons did exist, so it's not just C-canon (continutiy canon) but G-canon (george lucas canon). To help establish what I mean here, just watch episode 6.

* Gammoreans have axes.
* Lando wielded an axe as well.
* The royal guards carry force pikes.

In episode 4, sand people use melee weapons as well. And do not forget the electric staffs the magna guards use. Jango had blades in his gauntlet in 2.

Ok, these aren't swords but they are melee. So why shouldn't swords exist?

-

Canon vs Imagination. Hmm. Well, from my standpoint, "customs" that are well done make the community more creative and inspired. And who is to say that this character couldn't possibly exist anywhere in the fictional universe called Star Wars? Does anyone question the existance of all those folks in mos eisley that no one can identify by name? And how many planets are there?

Okay, no one will ever get every custom in the canon, but this galaxy is a product of imagination and it's a lot bigger than planet earth. So why not be a player and drop your character in the galaxy, even if he/she will never get mentioned or even be seen in movies/TV/comics/books? I think it's a lot of fun to do, and really makes me feel creative.

I think the only customers that shouldn't customize their costumes are those who wear clone/imperial costumes.

A bad mando in my opinion? Earthy weapons, unmodded do not yell out star wars. ****** paint job does yell out lazy, everyone can paint if they put themselves into it. If you have low budget, take your time and use your imagination.

Oh and a newbie is never helpless. There are tons of guides out there, and forums such as these.

Here's one with a sword, I want to eventually make it for myself (I love the yellow/green color scheme):
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/b...oFatherSon.jpg

I believe I was the only one in this thread that said they didn't like swords.
I am not pushing my views on anyone, nor am I am trying to start an argument or debate, I don't want to "double-team" aye?

If any of you other don't like my views, or just want to post yours, by all means, go for it. But I am not trying to spark an argument, everything so far has been pretty nice nice, I hope to keep it that way. :)

And on the swords bit: I do not like them, that is me, I don't really care if they were canon or not, they don't fit in with the SW universe very well ( I don't think) and that is very debatable, but I don't care. I carry a blaster, and other gadgets, sword fighting is when I am in Jedi. (my opinion)

Bladed weapons were in the original movies, the new movies, the comics, the video games, and the books. Sure, they aren't anywhere as prevalent as blasters, due to the level of galactic technology at the time, but they are there: Vibro-axes (Gammorean Guards, Lando), vibro-blades (Neo-Crusaders), force pikes (Royal Guards), gauntlet blades (Jango and Clone Commandos), and others that I'm sure I'm forgetting...

The most primal and lastingly effective weapons in every warrior culture, real and fictional, have always been bladed ones. I find it hard to believe that Mandalorians, a culture who value the spirit of battle, would limit themselves to long-range or hand-to-hand combat. I think maybe a dagger or blade made from the bones or armor of fallen enemies would fit right in. :)

two games stand up for swords, KOTOR and KOTOR II, the best SW games. any ways cannon is more of a guide, i like to stay to the cannon in regards to colors and tech, but i look for inspirations from all places, if you can make something work more power to you. i don't want to keep all of my parts to look like boba, which is why I'm in the market for some Storm trooper gauntlets, ( if anyone can hook me up :) ) imagination is the key to all costuming

We all start somewhere with our customs. I too started with a simple Jango repaint. Since then over the years I've decided to explore my imagination a bit more and through alot of trial and error...mostly error, have developed other skills.
All I really want to add to this is ONE comment, Please for the love of Jeebus, ... FILL in that dent! :)

Well shows over people, the master has spoken!
FILL IN YOUR DENTS!
:lol

Good to see you here MS since you're referenced several times!
:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Clayster

I believe I was the only one in this thread that said they didn't like swords.
I am not pushing my views on anyone, nor am I am trying to start an argument or debate, I don't want to "double-team" aye?

If any of you other don't like my views, or just want to post yours, by all means, go for it. But I am not trying to spark an argument, everything so far has been pretty nice nice, I hope to keep it that way. :)

And on the swords bit: I do not like them, that is me, I don't really care if they were canon or not, they don't fit in with the SW universe very well ( I don't think) and that is very debatable, but I don't care. I carry a blaster, and other gadgets, sword fighting is when I am in Jedi. (my opinion)

---

I think we all respect each others views here, at least hope so. Everyone has something against something within the fictional universe - I personally never saw the vongs as really Starwars-y.

I'm also a "wannabe Mandalorian" from way back in the day, I always figured that kind of suit in ESB & RotJ would look so much better on me than it does on Fett cause there's so much more that he could add to it & if I was in that suit I wouldn't have a crotch plate or wookiee braids. Or those colors, well maybe some of those colors cause they're cool but the point is I don't want to be Boba Fett, I want to be a Mandalorian that is better & has more style than Boba Fett.

My little Fett or Jango SW figs that I repainted would always have my head on under their little helmets & when I finally got almost a full set on Mando armor in SWG it was my head under that helmet, or as close as I could get it using their char creation system. SWG just re-igniting my whole dream of being in & living in the Star Wars universe. I had a house, I had a bunch of different outfits, I had lots of weapons & cool ships, I bought & sold stuff, I hunted & missioned stuff, I vaped & escorted stuff. After a while right before SWG became teh suck, I was doing the Empire's work by hunting down & killing the absolutely large amount of Jedi that just happened to be hiding in a cave during the Clone Wars so that their clonetroopers wouldn't shoot them all to death, I killed a bunch, alot more killed me, but I was living it like a Mandalorian, in my Delorian, lemme stop before I get all mc chris on this.

When I finally get my kit together & put it on to go out at cons, clubs or whatever, I'm not trying to hear some SW snob tell me that I'm not Jango/Boba Fett & I'm not trying to put a sign on the back of my armor saying that I'm a custom Mando when I suit up, like or hate my gear it's alright peoples. I'm doing it for myself, I'm Mandalorian warrior # 23, codenamed Tricky & this is my fantasy.

This is a cool thread, I likes! Si good to know that I'm not the only opinionated custom Mando out here.