All I know is I am done with this board if I don't get my H.R. Pufnstuf forum.
BTW Kristen. Apologies for my earlier statement. I know that you listen to the members regarding many things, but this was a done deal when the thread was started. The thread was to announce, not ask about, a clone section. That's all I meant.
Oops, I said I was going to be quiet.
And BSG, we all love BSG.
WhiteCommando here. TDH – This forum – is where I learned about costume accuracy as an art. I made a McQuarrie-styled white trooper, and was approved in the 501st in 2005 as a BH (which is surprising since it was an Albino Fett basically). Concurrently, in early 2005, I was asked to be a moderator on clonetroopers.net. Then in late 2005, me and a friend made a clone web site... to supplement the 501st Detachment. My friend's ID was/is Javamonkey.
He made cool helmets, I made some tutorials, and it was just a small web-site.
Then, the creator of the 501st First Imperial Stormtrooper Detachment (FISD), Daetrin, asked me... "Hey, why don't you make Clone-Empire a Forum?" This was November of 2006.
As owner, I had the foresight to not proclaim myself leader of my own forum. But I went along with Daetrin's proposal – I believed it sounded like a cool idea. I asked the MEPD Detachment Leader, TD-1536 to be Forum Leader on this new, privately-owned Forum. He agreed, and wrote a Code of Conduct that is easy to understand, and easy to enforce. Daetrin is 2nd (or also known as "Number Two"). We built the forum over 2-3 weeks, and it became pretty active, starting in December 2006.
It now has almost 1,000 members, and runs pretty smooth and is in the early part of its 3rd year. We have suspended 3 people and banned 2 people since it opened. That is pretty good since we do not have heavy banning there.
Moving onto another Clone-Forum, or Section for Clones on this Fett-based forum, I believe that even though TDH is not under 501st control (same as Clone-Empire), it could be a good idea to discuss it with the 501st, as well as Rebel Legion.
Why? Currently, if you were to ask the Legion CO of the 501st about Clones, designations, CRLs (still a WIP and the list of troop designs is growing weekly due to the TV show), and the Approval of TC designations by GMLs (which, for a time, Garrison GMLs were stripped of approving any clones AND Legion had to approve suits... one at a time), the clone costume is a sticky situation... and the fact that there are already the following venues...
2. The Fan-Made Prop Forum
4. The 327th
5. The Rebel Legion (And their soon to be active Phase One Sub-Detachment)
Adding a 6th Clone Forum here may be fun. And we can agree that it should be about fun... but with 2 Officially Recognized Forums – CT.net and Rebel Legion trying to figure out who, as TC costumers, have all they need to get approved, plus using Clone-Empire as a resource (as well as TFMPF and 327th) for gear... "may" complicate, versus compliment the 5 forums already helping guys suit up in clone armor.
AND, I offer an analogy, it would be similar to adding a Boba Fett/Jango Fett section to Clone-Empire. AND, saying we are going to make the best Boba Fett suits available on the internet. What makes both TDH and C-E great is the freedom from the 501st, while retaining a respect for 501st Charter. C-E is independent of the 501st, but support the goals of the 501st by trying to raise the bar. Same for TDH... the Official 501st Boba Fett Forum exists, but people come here for all things Fett.
Lastly, if there is a Clone segment here, I can provide some great resources to this forum, to help do what? Grow the clone population, which has been at the 375-450 member count on the 501st for 3 years. Since it seems for every clone costume made, we lose one.
I hope my POV is helpful.
Best to you all!
Founder of http://www.clone-empire.com/forums
After reading all of this, I can honestly say, who cares? If the admins want to expand, let them do it. It's not going to hurt this forum in any way shape or form. I don't think it's going to really hurt other forums either. It's great that we added a clone section, but if I really want to know more about them, I'll goto CTN.
I also agree with the, "if you don't want to read it, don't click on it." that simple. Let the Boba people stay with the boba section, let the zam stay with the zams (are there even any?) Let the clones stay with there section.
I've only recently gotten into the whole costuming crowd, and have been on this forum for a couple months. One thing I've noticed is that everyone here really close. Something like this should cause so much controversy.
We have numerous members and even most of our admin team who are also members of the 501st. However, we have approached the 501st several times in the past in an effort to see what we might be able to do for them and they have made it pretty clear that they have little interest in working with us in an official capacity, and since the clones are just a single forum at this point and we do not even know if it will take off, we have no plans to approach the 501st in regard to it. In addition, our goal is not to help members make their clones 501st-ready, but to help them make the very best and most accurate clones possible. Hopefully, in doing so, we will not only meet but exceed any requirements set by the 501st. Not to sound nasty, but we have no interest in being mired in the sticky bureaucracy involved in such thing as ever-changing 501st CRLs. We leave such matters to the 501st and will simply chug along with whatever clones our members want to make, 501st approved or not.
I realize my opinion may not be worth much, but I think the additon of Clones is a great idea from a building perspective.
There are ALOT of talented and innovative builders among our Cloners, building and painting tips, techniques, new scratch building ideas.
Alot of these methods can be carried over to Fett and Mando builds. Plus, we have a larger group of people to help find "found parts".
There has been a new approcah using 3d renderings to make uber accurate Fett armor for example. These are all good things, alot of the artists involved in clone builds can offer any community great insite and help. As a hobby, all the "hands on work" is the same wether you are building a clone or Mando.
Last edited by pghfett; Feb 8, 2009 at 2:27 AM.
Mike, I am 110% with you. I can't help but think every single person that joins TDH might be the next person to make a major Fett discovery. I will never forget our little south american friend who talked about everything but fett... and then one day... bam... he drops a bomb on us and we now have the cheek detail thanks to him! You just never know where the next discovery will come from! Not to mention, as you said, all the incredible talent that can do clones just as easily as fett or fett just as easily as clones!
I'd also have to agree with Replicant Shadow in that we have a very unique "family safe environment" which is not easily replicated.
I feel the addition of the clone forum is a good idea because there are so many wonderful members here who enjoy clone costuming or just like seeing other members' projects…all within TDH's friendly environment.
Last edited by Cruzer; Feb 8, 2009 at 12:55 PM.
You make some very good points. While TDH prides itself on its Fett expertise, our true strength lies in the community spirit that is fostered here. We know that and will protect that at all costs. Everyone is welcome at TDH as long as they are willing to abide by the rules. If they are not willing to abide by the rules, they simply won't last long here. While we wish to grow and expand we will not do so at the cost of losing the community we have worked so hard to build. Clone fans from any board are welcome here, but if they want to bring melodrama or trouble to TDH, they will be shown the door. We have no room for such things here. Family and community come first. Props are second. Drama is best left at the door.
First off, Dent, thanks for the reply. We do not report to the 501st, and that is why the clone costumers coming out of Clone-Empire are typically of a more fostered, and less frustrated type.
It was even brought up to me, about a year ago, that C-E was similar to TDH, and by many people. AND, in the fact that by NOT being official, we are not bound by 501st... issues.
That said, Dent AND I, have a similar goal, and we do it similarly... outside the system. Our respective forums make a Boba Fett or a Clone, but better... so that if this person chooses to join the 501st, he or she is a shoe-in.
And I am sure everyone knows that the 501st will not let you speak in their forum until you have a 501st-quality suit... but, how do you just get into a suit? It is a challenge, at the very least to even do an FX... and once you are in it, you will be told how much it sucks, once you are 501st.
Now, I will support the remarks of FlukeStarbucker. When I made my small web-site, clone-empire into clone-empire (the Forum), I asked TD-1536 - MH - to develop the architecture, rules, and lead the moderators, which at C-E, we call Counselors. This is based on the generality likened to the source of the description of title – A moderator controls, where a Counselor guides.
So, we try to guide with a soft touch. Light moderation, and, if anyone knows TD-1536, he is the quintessential pragmatist, and has made the Forum, along with Daetrin, a place that many prefer to the Official 501st Detachment.
As for Stormtrooperguy, I was a little surprised by his remarks about choosing TDH over CT.net and C-E anytime... when he and a friend made a large batch of helmets, and sold them freely, as our guests at C-E. Our venue was the best place for him, at the time he was needing to sell his product, to use. If he showed a spreadsheet of where he sold the most, C-E would be the one.
So, I feel a bit used. But, I will not dwell.
Lastly, I will bring you the best of my talented artisans.
These blasters, helmets, and armor are made by friends of mine... and the blasters are the best bang for the buck! Click link...
So, C-E is a good place, and TDH is a good place. Being cohesive just builds an opportunity to do a great thing... pull TC numbers out of the gutter.
i never actually even posted a for sale thread there... you offered to let me, but we never did, because we didn't want to track Yet Another Forum for it.
the only place a sale thread has been run is 501stforums.com. i've gotten maybe 5-6 pms from people on C-E about helmets... and i've sent them to the legion board to get one.
so say what you will about anything else, but to say that c-e has been the home of a run for me is just flat out not true.
tdh is my home-forum so to speak. i've invested more time here than anywhere else, and have come to know the community better than anywhere other than my own garrison. so if given a choice, i'll post stuff here.
You seem to feel the need to defend C-E which is understandable, but the fact is, as we have seen here at TDH again and again, everyone is not going to like the way you, or we, or someone else runs things. I am sure you could find plenty of people at other boards who do not like TDH or how we operate. The beauty of the internet and multiple sites is that those people have an opportunity to go somewhere else or create a site of their own. Don't view this move as an attack on C-E, as it is not. We are simply extending out reach into an area that appears to still have a need. Will we fill that need? Only time will tell.
I stand corrected on the for sale threads STG. I believe there were WIP threads on the STG lids. I remember lots of pics of Phase One and Toon-styled lids AND I remember complimenting your work.
The threads are gone now. But no biggy.
And yes Dent, I have faith in C-E, just like you do for TDH. We as owners of Forums that work outside the system, AND raise the bar, should be glad we have created a spot on the internet that helps people.
That said, one thing that is a little worrisome is the tone some people use towards ct.net and c-e... like we are (1) collaborating -- which we are not, and (2) that we are a scurge, or a second-rate group. C-E was created to fill a need, nearly exactly like you mentioned... but we did it 26 months ago.
Perhaps our common goal can prevent any misdirected confusion.
But, we at C-E, and the folks that have come here to describe/represent what we do, and as well as defend the name of C-E, as a clone community, are doing a normal thing. That said, I will urge the counselors at C-E, to respect the space they visit, outside the realm we have control of, and will try to encourage them to convey remarks/advice/opinions in a tone that tries to do so with the utmost of respect for this forum, since we are guests... heck, every member here is a guest. Same for any other privately-owned Forum.
So, there we are. No discussion required in open Forum. Perhaps, you could PM me, and I could share the pitfalls we have encountered... and be an asset to you.
That said... lots of cool things could happen with more venues offering more stuff, at fair prices. That is the positive. All forums have their plusses and minuses – hopefully, the end result... as forums of good information and smart people, the TC population can grow.
Well I like the move. ( even if the expansion ISN"T a new female character) I am sure we will see some growing pains. I think it will be great to have more people to talk to and new costume construction techniques ( This is the ONLY board I want to belong to) for the clones.
The artists and environment just Rocks here. But I really don't want to see 3 Jangos and 5 Bobas at a con where there is no TDH table. It is cool to see 5 clones though.
Let the entertainment begin
no worries WC... there are a million threads out there, it's hard to keep track!
and it's no slam on C-E why i'd prefer to be here... this is just my home. it would be like going out to the store to get a coke when you already have a fridge full. it's not like you are avoiding the convenience store out of spite, there's just no need to leave the house!
Well, I for one really like this idea. In my opinion, TDH is a very healthy forum that consists of good people being moderated evenly. The biggest thing I see making this a successful move is the fact that I think most people here are genuinely helpful to each other and that what this is about.
Let's face it... No matter what make of armor you have, you could all use some sort of pointers on assembling it. When I started assembling my armor, I was looking all over for some good points on how to easily size, trim and glue the parts properly. It was difficult to sift through the mish-mash of "tutorials" out there. Slavefive and I both are excited about being able to post some tutorials that assume that the person doesn't have any tools or experience.
Possibly expanding on some of the tutorials, maybe we could rate them as far as difficulty.....I don 't know...just a thought.
The point is this....
TDH is home for many of us. A clone section isn't going to bring in the riff-raff but rather keep many of us under the same "roof" for our other costumes.
This sounds like a ton of fun. Looking forward to it.
As Postmortem has already stated, I am extremely excited about the addition of the clone area to TDH...TDH is where I got my initial start with costuming and it is great to see that I can continue my personal Clone Costume experience here as well...
Hopefully we can help those in need by creating nice tutorials to help show people how to assembly armor, regardless of maker and skill level...and the family friendly environment will help keep people motivated and to continue in the right direction...
At any rate just wanted to extend my praise to TDH for stepping up and filling a nice niche
Great!! Now I can get the help that I need to help my cousin build his Commander Cody
I for one am cool with TDH having a clone section. I have been a member here for a bit and have used it's vast resources greatly. Got a lot of great parts and friends from here. Good luck getting things running guys!
If I win the election as I stated in my Q&A I would support all clones. That would mean even the members here at TDH. It's very clear that some people have their sites that they love. I will say that when visiting the site and I see something awesome I may ask people to share it with CT.N. Not everyone comes here and it would be great to spread the wealth around to everyone.
stormtrooperguy - send me a PM over at CT.N I have something that I want to discuss with you. It might make you a bit more entusiastic.