A New and Disturbing Trend at TDH - ALL PLEASE READ!

In the past few months, others, and I, both admins and regular members alike have noticed a rather disturbing trend here at TDH. As a growing board, we are losing our unique and vital ability to be close-knit and helpful to one another. Members, both new and old, in general, are more cynical than ever, and quick to attack others, especially our new members. Earlier this year we asked for donations for a booth at C4. You all gave VERY generously and we couldn’t be more grateful. The point and purpose of having a booth was to draw new members, as new members are the life of the board. Eventually old timers fall away or move on to other things and it is the constant influx of “newbies” that keep us alive. You all gave and we spent a tremendous amount of money to market this board so that we will continue to have new members in the future. We have made great efforts to make ourselves known and to help get new members to visit. However, as a whole, we are not providing a warm and inviting atmosphere that will make a potential member want to hang around for very long. Are newbies frustrating? Yes, they can be. They ask questions that we have answered a thousand times or get all excited and want to share a “new” discovery they have made, one that we made 2 or 3 years ago. If you love TDH and want to see it continue to grow, we all, not just the administration, but all of our members, MUST try to empathize with these new members and try to be helpful whenever possible. Try to see things from their perspective and even if you can’t be excited about their “discoveries”, be excited for them and remember how excited when you were, so many years ago when you were at the same point they are now. Also, as you know, this board is not run the way many boards are run and it takes time for a new person to acclimate themselves to our culture. While we don’t want to bend the rules, we don’t have to cram them down every newbies throat or chide them incessantly when they break one. Be patient with them as the administration often is patient with you. Help them to understand our rules and why we have them. Don’t simply criticize a new member for not following them.

This is a call to bring TDH back to what made us great to begin with; fellow Fett fans helping each other out to create the greatest Fett costumes the costuming community has ever seen! Each and everyone one of you are TDH. You ARE the board and without any one of you, the board would not be the same. Please make sure that your contributions are helping make TDH an open and inviting place for our new members, not den of cold and impersonal hardcases.

D

Thank you very much The Dent. Your words are very kind as well as true. I myself am a new member and I'am greatful to be in a place where many fans across the world can share their Knowledge and ideas to people like me and many others for years to come.

Interesting... I know some Bords require you to post an "introduction" before being allowed to post in any of the other forums. I know this may seem like a bit much, but at least you get a little bit more backround on our newer members than their name and some non-place where they live.

I think having a "Hello post" would give all of us a better understanding of who's joining our group, weather it be a 40yr old Father of 2 who always wanted a Fett suit, or a 14 yr old who is just starting costuming, and is looking for tips and information.

I truely believe we all want to help each other, but when starting out as a new member, we don't always know the "Ins and outs" of our happy little group, and it tends to chap at least one person's patutie.

I think I would be a bit more understanding if I knew a little bit more about the people posting other than just a screen name, and if they possibly introduce themselves in another thread. I wouldn't want to alienate someone for asking for help.

astute point shawn. I think we should have an introduction thread to break some of the newbs in.

Originally Posted by The Dent

Members, both new and old, in general, are more cynical than ever, and quick to attack others, especially our new members.

And if we continue to do this we lose the great community we have here and then what do we become?

The RPF, that's what.

Not knocking them per se, but I can't help when I go there I think. Jeeze what a bunch on information hoarding, better than thou snobs. I'm going back to TDH and browse.

It just frustrates me when I see one board that is argument laden, very uninformative on process, and completely no help... and then everybody at TDH helps one another, shows off their finished pieces and is glad to show how they did it.

Both boards are the same general thing...props. Its just that TDH is more focused on one particualr area.

I know that quite a few members that are here are also on the RPF, but I'm sure most of them find this to be a much friendlier environment.

Just my 2 cents on why we all need to squash our arguments quickly and keep on keepin on with what makes TDH great!

Relative Newbie here, I was quite surprised to see this thread as I've actually been made to feel very welcome here. Okay I have been lurking on the board for a bit before joining and have been a member of other boards but not in a major way.

I knew relatively little about Fett or costuming when I first joined so I've had my share of usual questions like- What is "prepro?", What does "MSH" stand for?, whats a "borden connector"?, etc. I didn't actually have to ask these questions as the info was mostly already here in existing threads. This community is actually very, very open about sharing info, found parts, research photos and the like, a look into things like Vader costuming and especially Blader Runner props shows a very unhelpful and secretive scene where a few people jealously guard all of their findings and photos. The sheer unwillingness to help on these subjects caused me to abandon them as hobbies as there was such a sheer arrogance towards newbies to the subject. Sure there were a lot of helpful people out there but the there was a minority of people who saw themselves as "keepers of secrets" and would not even allow photos of certain fan made items to be posted.

I was originally contemplating buying a Fett helmet just to paint up and when I saw the variety available I thought I'd dig a bit further. A quick search later and I found TDH. I was impressed by the huge quantity of helpful threads and the final results achieved by members and joined up when I finished all the projects I was working on. I had only really been a member of a forum like this once before and as far as I understood there was usually a welcome/introduction thread, or if not new members would usually post a bit about themselves.

I did a quick search found the intro thread - http://www.thedentedhelmet.com/showt...light=new+user
I posted, got a few replies and was made to feel very welcome. (I did also ask that this thread be made permanent but was politely told that mast members do have sense enough to introduce themselves). Like I have said previously I had little experience of how to behave on a community board like this but just using common sense, being polite and making use of the sources available here before asking any questions I have had a great time on the forum and (bad dealings in the FS section) had yet to meet any members who behaved any differently to myself.

With regards to the new trend, I honestly don't think that anyone at TDH really sets out to make things hard for newbies. Sure I have witnessed threads where members have been a little short with newbies but NEVER without reason. 99% of these threads have been because the question asker has neglected to use the search function before asking said question. The first response in these instances is that someone will politely inform the new member to use this function. The trouble only seems to start when the questions keep coming with no heed being paid to the advice given. In personal experience there are very few basic topics that have not been discussed in great length here at some time. Most people being blunt with the new members are just frustrated that the advice they have so kindly given has been ignored and that they are just being used as a "quick fix" answer.

I have even managed to be pulled into a thread with much ugliness, arguing and swearing. Being a newer member myself I know that the general member base is not one to attack someone without reason.

This is only a very recent thing and has only happened with certain new members. Some forums have a requirement that you submit reasons for joining before accounts are activated. Most require that you post an introduction. ALL require that you show some common sense and civility when posting. The Mods here have been very, very, very patient and lenient with some newbies posts and recurring problems, but even they at times have been required to step in and lock threads.

First one might define "newbie," I believe that this issue had been long going on before I joined early January 2006. The website always had the stench of hierarchy around, and I don't think that a bandaid can be put on the issue this easily.

I agree with you Raffles (welcome, by the way) in that, we are very welcoming at first (unlike many other clickish boards). It's when the advise or suggestions that we give are not heeded, and questions are re-phrased and asked a 2nd, 3rd or 4th time that the blood pressure of the veteran members, including myself, begins to rise.

That said, the welcoming and kind attitude at TDH sets us apart and needs to be preserved. I've taken an attitude that, if I don't have anything constructive to say, I'll just refrain from posting and let the mods take care of it.

Well, to be perfectly honest, I have been lurking around in forever but have joined not too long ago. I really don't know if I would consider myself a newbie, I just don't like to post on topics that either, doesn't concern me, or I have no useful input to add to. So my post count is low, I'm one of those "post little, read lots" kind of person so a "veteran" being rude to me has never occurred, and I doubt it will ever occur.

Frankly, I see why The Dent posted this, since, as he put it quite correctly, the newbies are the life of the board and a disgruntled newbie may not want to stick around, specially if he/she was "ganged on" by the more veteran members. However, it is also true that many of the newer members have a tendency to post/ask/re-ask the same questions over and over again. This is a simple case of "opening your mouth before thinking"/impatience/in a hurry to start stuff attitude, which I believe is more common with our younger and more eager members. (understand, they are quite giddy, that's why they joined)

It can be avoided if before being allowed to post, new members are directed to a "must read" page that reminds them to use the search function and of course to remember the CoC. A 2-3 day probationary non-posting period would also probably help, it teaches them patience and it gives them time to think before they bombard the boards with questions that have already been asked.

The problem is of course on both ends, the eager "newbies" and the "jaded" veterans. Both sides would have to meet the other half-way, the eager newbies would have to temper their eagerness and the Jaded veterans would have to temper their Jadedness.

I have the same suggestion for both the newbies and the veterans. Take your time to think before pressing that send button, think of what you're unleashing into the boards before you do, think of what you'll get back from the result of sending that post. Just take time to think. Impulse is what starts it all. Well thought out, a post even in disagreement will be well received and will make other people think.

Take your time to think.

Speaking from what I have experience in the past 3 months... this has been one of the most exciting times for Fett costuming. I have learned a ton and the ability to make a truly accurate costume has been made much more accessible.

I have also learned alot about the history of the costume. I think there are two different catigorys of people on this site making costumes. One is more interested in it looking good and trooping in it. The other is obsessed with the history of the suit and every last detail! (I think I fall into that category)

Both are very important and we all need to remember regardless of post count or how long we have been a member. We all started somewhere. We all made friends on this board because various people reached out to us on this board with helpful information and guidance that we used to help us create our costumes.

This fall will be exciting for this board as there will be a large influx of new progress threads and new parts based on what we learned at C4. I cant wait to see what our members will be sharing with us.

I always try and be both humble and kind to anyone I talk to because you never know if down the road they might have the next great new helmet or reference to help make our costumes better. We are all friends here.

I've always liked the atmosphere here on TDH, and half a year before I joined too when is was looking around at TDH. Everybody is so friendly and I like that!!

Originally Posted by evan4218

I think there are two different catigorys of people on this site making costumes. One is more interested in it looking good and trooping in it. The other is obsessed with the history of the suit and every last detail! (I think I fall into that category)

Don't forget the custom mandalorian group that, like klingons, seems to have their own language.

Originally Posted by evan4218

Both are very important and we all need to remember regardless of post count or how long we have been a member.

Where is Brak's Buddy's old signature when you need it?

Which one? They rotate pretty frequently...

I was wondering that too then I just realized...the Tyler Durden one.

Originally Posted by hansoloway

Don't forget the custom mandalorian group that, like klingons, seems to have their own language.

Here here! 8)

Since I've been coming here, I've seen TDH as an excellent resource for Star Wars costumers in general. The easiest experience to forget is the experience of being new, no matter what group you may be part of. Just as The Dent said, it takes new people to keep an organization growing. Sometimes it's best to remember tolerance, patience, and compassion...hard things for all of us at times.

I hope for the continued growth of TDH, because that means costuming is still alive and kicking.

Originally Posted by Mirax H

I was wondering that too then I just realized...the Tyler Durden one.

This one?

Since I have only been on a month, I am a newbie. I have found everybody to be extremely helpful. I would only introduce myself in a thread after I am done. Maybe it is because of how the 501st works - you are not a member until you have an approved costume.
There is a lot of information on this board. There are some dead links (pictures mainly) so I did not understand how some things were done so needed to ask for help. The craftsmanship of the items I purchased has been extraordinary to say the least.
One thing I do like and think it should be in the opening email is the how much you will spend. I think a lot of people have some very unrealistic ideas on what they will spend. I truly did not realize how much some people spent, however I did plan correctly based on the information (unpainted/raw parts).
Your booth, the costuming panel, and the people representing The Dented Helmet at C4 are the reason I am doing a Boba Fett.

Originally Posted by Brak's Buddy

This one?

That's it! In my opinion, that says quite a bit.

And you do say your signature changes every now and then. So does your avatar ... I like that new one!

For whatever its worth, it doesn't seem all that new to me. Evolved a bit, but not new...

I discovered TDH in its prop-planet era, when it was on the same server as RPF, I think some time in 2003.

I wasn't planning to work on a Boba at the time, so I basically just poked my head in every now and then when I had time to kill.

Finally I joined up.

The vibe I got from the board was that it was a group of folks that all knew each other, and that they weren't really interested in new people. I posted my progress on various things... I rarely got more than a handful of replies, but I was going to just stubbornly plod through it all.

I don't know when the transition from "noob that everyone ignores" to "someone who's been around long enough to notice", but there was a definite shift, as though I had "proven myself worthy".

I also felt as though folks that knew each other would always reply to each other, but ignore most other people.

None of this really mattered to me... I was just here for the info, and wasn't really expecting anyone to be nice to me. But I can see where that would be a bit off-putting to a new member. I'm also not saying that this is how it was, just how I perceived it to be (an important distinction in my mind!)

To me it seems like the pack mentality has always been there, it's just gone from passively ignoring noobs to actively discouraging them.

Yeah guys... don't chase off the newbies... we'll need them for food once the winter comes.

Being nice never hurts. Well, I know about that. I learned a lot about it right here. I found this site off a link from TK-409's site in 2004 I believe. Then I went on, umm, hiatus... then came back.

AND I ALSO LEARNED... not to drink a bottle of Coppola when you are feeling testy... Seriously. I mean it. So, it is good to keep it friendly (and respectful) - to newbs and long-timers. Speak to others as you would, as when speaking to their face. Keyboards are not windows to the soul... human contact is.

Good topic Dent.

John

Originally Posted by hansoloway

It's when the advise or suggestions that we give are not heeded, and questions are re-phrased and asked a 2nd, 3rd or 4th time that the blood pressure of the veteran members, including myself, begins to rise.

I think hsw nailed it.

Old timers, when it comes to answering the questions over and over again, remember PATIENCE!!!!! You were a newbie once as well, and more than likely annoyed the vets as well.

Newbies, there is a search option. If you have any questions, then do a search. There is a good chance that your question has already been answered.

Might I suggest a FAQ section that is stickied at the beginning of each category? Sure it may be tiresome to do, but it might be worth the effort in the long run.

We do have a FAQ that is listed at the top of every page.

Wow, I have always been under the impression that this is the place to be. I love it! Though, I will be the first to admit that I myself have not spent any real time in any of the specific forum threads, so I am out out of the loop on the day to day minutia that exist.

I will tell you all though, as a Sarlacc Pit junkie, what I saw at CIV, the bond of the old and new membership, the comadrie, was incredible. It was effortlessly unified. It made me feel very proud to be apart of such an incrediably diverse group of like minded artists. Hell, I dont even have a Fett costume yet, and I know when the time comes to start on my Pre-Pro, I will have the support and help of all you fine exisiting members and, I hope to help inspire new folks as I have been inspired by all of you.

Oh, I do think a intro thread would be the way to go. That way we can all welcome our new friends on and get everybody settled in nicely!

I think Voltaire said it well. I myself am a Jango, rarely am i looking at boba threads however C4 was a blast meeting EVERYONE! Sure we were all noobs at one point, but let me pull out a mem from c4. A little kid had made a fett suit out of freakin cardboard! Our very own Cruzer gave his bantha skull necklace to this kid why he did this i do not know, but i do know that the little kids face lit up brighter than he sun. In the end we need to treat everyone new and old like the fellow star wars fan that they are. Sure theres the annoying question, and yes SEARCHING is HIGHLY promoted, but it comes down to the fact of why waste time loading a page, typing a rude comment, then loading another page just to post it??? just dont. Mandos (correct me if iim wrong) were known for their comrodery and their honor, (except Vizsla) we need to do the same and live up to our noble name.

I am not going to say much, but I know this isn't a recent issue like everyone makes it out to be, this board has been going on for a while, and when I joined I know there was a problem with this, it just has never been adressed like it has now.

I don't really feel like a "newbie" but I know I am being spoken down to in some situations.
I have made the certain amount of posts that used to be the "Respected mark" to where people will listen to what you have to say, and I am not sure if that is enough on this board in some cases.

Perhaps I am wrong and perhaps this wasn't the original intent of the thread, but for those who are saying this isn't something new, I think you might be confusing the lack of response to new members with the dogpiling of new members that seems to have become popular lately. As Brian pointed out, pretty much as long as TDH has been around, there have been complaints of elitism and frustration by new members at the lack of kudos or help from older members. While I think that is unfortunate, you can't MAKE people respond to a thread. However, it seems that here lately, the problem is just the opposite; a new member does something a little out of line and every member, old and new has to crawl out of the woodwork and take a shot at that person. We all make mistakes and as has been said several times in this thread, we were all new once. While I wish older members, myself included, posted more, the major concern I see is the vicious parana like attacks that are made, not the fact that you may not get as many responses as you would like. Just my thoughts.

The mob mentality is the real issue here. It has increased in frequency and it needs to stop. I've seen it happen time and time again where a newbie will say something "quirky" and everyone bashes them on the head. That's hardly the family atmosphere we're going for here.

Originally Posted by tk7602

For whatever its worth, it doesn't seem all that new to me. Evolved a bit, but not new...

The vibe I got from the board was that it was a group of folks that all knew each other, and that they weren't really interested in new people.

I also felt as though folks that knew each other would always reply to each other, but ignore most other people.

This is a good summation of how I felt initially in regards to some of "the veterans" and sometimes I still get the vibe. There is definitely a group of people that forms like the "in-crowd" here at TDH, the people who for whatever reason are the most knowledgable, talented, whatever. Now this is just with some of "the veteran" members. For every senior member like that there is someone who is super nice and welcoming.

And on the opposite side there are new people here who are just ridiculous as far as their posting habits and maturity level.

I think you'll always have these two "problem areas" to deal with. And as the board grows you'll get more of both.

Like was said before, everyone aught to take a moment when posting to ask themselves if they end up coming off like a jerk or not. And if thats the case, reword your post, or don't post the message.

I wish I could have been more help.

Phil

I still like this place. I just wish I could get a girth belt from someone already!

As webchief pointed out, this thread really isn't about the whole "in crowd" issue, but being a member who has been here from day one, I want to touch on this, if from no other perspective than my own. I will not make excuses or try to justify actions but from very early on their have been accusations of an "in" crowd and of "elitism." While I understand that in a few cases that does happen, I think the thing that most people, especially newer members, fail to understand is that there isn't so much a clique as it is a group of friends who have grown very close over the last 6-7 years. Do your close friends get a little more attention than strangers? Yeah... they do. Should they? That is debatable. The point is that what most people seem to see as a "select" group excluding others is simply a web of friendships that go far beyond this virtual container spilling over into the online community. Again, I am not trying to justify ignoring any member. It simply shouldn't be done and any member, old or new who sees a question posed but unanswered should make an effort to answer, but it is a group effort and no one should be looking for affirmation from a certain individual or certain group of individuals. This board is about answers, not about getting kudos from the "old guard."

[ Our very own Cruzer gave his bantha skull necklace to this kid why he did this i do not know, but i do know that the little kids face lit up brighter than he sun. In the end we need to treat everyone new and old like the fellow star wars fan that they are. Sure theres the annoying question, and yes SEARCHING is HIGHLY promoted, but it comes down to the fact of why waste time loading a page, typing a rude comment, then loading another page just to post it??? just dont. Mandos (correct me if iim wrong) were known for their comrodery and their honor, (except Vizsla) we need to do the same and live up to our noble name.[/quote]


That little kid working with cardboard may soon become a young man working with fiberglass. I'm more of a FNG (Freaking New Guy) and I have yet to actually finish my helmet, much less the entire costume, but PLEASE encourage people, old-timers or newbies, with their projects.

As someone pointed out, you never know who will come up with a new way of making something, find some new info about anything Star Wars or just be a gung-ho member.

A can-do attitude and resourcefulness have been the very things that achieve results.

Please, let's respect each others creativity, drive and accomplishments. I hope I NEVER say anything derogatory or negative about someone's costume whether it be a spot on recreation of Jango, Boba, Zam or a custom Mando. It takes time, money, energy plus a lot of paint, bondo and insanity to attempt any costume like this. Let's remember to have some fun with this, respect other people's opinions and creative differences and remember to cut everyone some slack because:

"Slack is the grease upon which the wheels of the world do turn." Al Camp.

Rock on and keep making those costumes everyone!

Originally Posted by Mirax H

We do have a FAQ that is listed at the top of every page.

I'm not talking about a FORUM FAQ. I'm talking about a COSTUME FAQ

I guess I am not understanding what you are wanting by a costume FAQ.

Being old guard in the 501st and helping other prop and costume boards get started, I have always admired the TDH. I have admired the people and the wealth of knowledge here.

I used to think there was some "elitist attitude" here and shied away from the boards, but lurked like crazy because the knowledge was astounding. I knew that if I wanted to make the best costume possible I was going to have to get my feet wet.

Much to my surprise, this board welcomed me with open arms. I found out something very quickly here. Sincere comments on people efforts and their threads, contributing as well as asking and being patient were the lifeblood.

I have never had one of the "old guards" snob me, nor shy away from my questions. My post count is low, so what. I am an executive officer on two 501st boards and I understand what the admin goes through, so I err on the side of business should I need their attention. They have never let me down.

This board is its members. Lucasfilm hasnt handed anyone here a golden book of all things Fett/Mando, its the diligence of the membership.

Patience, contribution and friendliness are what will breed the community. Be wise with the new folks and new folks gleam your hearts out.

You get what you give.

Apparently my initial post lacked a bit of clarity regarding our expectations of how members treat one another as we just had to lock yet another flame fest. Let me make this perfectly clear; stop dogpiling. Stop makes snide comments. Stop taking pot shots and sideswipes. Stop making vicious criticisms. Stop being venomous, bitter and nasty to one another. Stop pouncing on one another when someone makes a mistake. Stop acting like animals, turning on an injured brother. If you have nothing helpful to add then don't post. You nasty comment aren't funny, cool, clever or witty. We have tried to be nice about this and approach this in a calm manner, but we will not allow a minority of you, who clearly lack an acceptable level of interpersonal relationship skills, to drag the rest of the board down. If you feel you can't act in a civil manner, perhaps TDH is not the place for you. If you continue to act in this manner, you will be banned. Period. Consider this your warning.

Originally Posted by Brak's Buddy

While I wish older members, myself included, posted more, the major concern I see is the vicious parana like attacks that are made, not the fact that you may not get as many responses as you would like. Just my thoughts.

after re-reading my own post, i don't think i made my point well...

what i was going for was more to say that i think the pack-attack is a newish twist on the sort of clique-ish thing that's gone on for a long time.

in my time here it's always been that the folks who know each other in real life tend to interact more with one and other. in the past, that interaction came in the form of people talking amongst themselves and ignoring people they didn't know.

the newer packs just seem more aggressive.

i guess what i'm saying is that if there's a way to address the pack mentality that's at the core of both the attacks and the sense of new people being shunned, that it would make everyone feel more welcome, and perhaps serve to prevent issues down the line.

in most communities i've been part of, people attack the strangers but defend "their own", so the key is to make people be part of the latter category as quickly as possible

I think we all need more events to gather at and meet each other face to face. I think that will help do away with with the feeling of exclusion that has been referenced. I am making a strong effort to see if there is any way for myself to make it to one or more of the major events upcoming. I look forward to any improvement to the community regardless of where we each perceive it to be currently, there is always room for improvement. I hope we can all do that.

-x

Is there going to be a DCon booth for TDH?

Mirax is working on something, I don't think it's a booth though, not sure she has given out details yet.

-x

I am working on some "things". Details will be forthcoming soon in the Sarlacc Pit.

Originally Posted by Mirax H

I am working on some "things". Details will be forthcoming soon in the Sarlacc Pit.

Well, if Mirax is working on it, it'll rock!

Originally Posted by MandalorFett

Well, if Mirax is working on it, it'll rock!

:o Thank you

Originally Posted by eighteendelta

I think we all need more events to gather at and meet each other face to face.

Being a Celebration 4 made me question a few things. I'd rather not meet some people twice after meeting them at CIV.

I understand that it was tried once before.

Would it help out now if we had a chat room on TDH?

IMHO. I think it would give both old and new members a chance to kinda get to know each other better.

Just my .02 cents.

Ah, I see what you mean. Well, that would honestly be a much greater undertaking that probably any of us would truly want or have time to do. But it is a good idea. Perhaps if there was someone that might be willing to compose something like that, we might be able to do that. It would be up to the administration to decide if we wanted to ultimately post something like this but I can see how it might help with some questions. Just so long as people don't act rudely to people who don't read it and still ask a question that is answered in the FAQ.

As far as the FAQ thing goes... the 501st NEG has been working on a wiki to cover exactly that stuff.

http://501neg.com/wiki/doku.php?id=costumingoba_fett

It's a work in progress, but there's a lot of good info in there already. I know there was talk at one point about perhaps having a TDH:Wiki. I think that would be a great idea

And maybe equipping all the mods with rolled up newspapers to thwap us when we're bad would help too!

Even a thread in each section with links directly to the "most helpful threads" in that section would be a good place to start. For instance A search for "rangefinder" in the search box turns up alot of threads with a question and an incomplete answer. A thread with a list of links broken down by topic would help that. I know something like this has been talked about briefly in the past and the full list of "found" items thread got started but not much every really came of it. I know this is mostly because no one wants to really take the time to do it (including me) and we shouldn't just expect the admins/mods to do it; we all know they all have enough on their plates as is. I don't even know how best to organize it to get it started even if it was attempted.

As far as the main discussion i this thread goes, for the most part I would say that everyone has been great, and there is a wealth of knowledge here. I know it seems that some people do seems to be more "buddy-buddy" with eachother than others, that's natural in any community online or real life and is to be expected. As long as we continue to reach out and welcome new people that shouldn't be an issue.

I say you have to pass a 20 question quiz before your allowed to post...heh heh

Originally Posted by Delta75

I say you have to pass a 20 question quiz before your allowed to post...heh heh

Hey, you know, that's not a bad idea.

All the basic newb questions that have been asked. Kinda like a scavenger hunt. They have to use the search to to find all the right answers.

So, Delta, all submissions go to you for grading.

Originally Posted by Delta75

I say you have to pass a 20 question quiz before your allowed to post...heh heh

hahahaha! ohhh... couldn't we have so much fun with that!!! They would of course have to be multipart questions...

Question 1) Give the full name for the folllowing: MSH, MSH2, ROTJ, ESB, ANH, FP, RA, MS, MH, BM, etc, etc.

Question 2) Name all the found parts that have been discovered and released so far.

What's really disturbing is that I actually took the time to answer those, brainstorming everything that's been discovered so far. I can't really use that kind of info for important things in life, like picking up chicks.

"Hi, can I get you a drink? That's a nice shirt, it looks very close to the green they used on Boba Fett's helmet. Only his was a little darker, due to the misting they applied to it. I believe they used a model paint called Panzer Olive Green. It's actually a different col-...wait, where are you going? I haven't told you about the weathering technique they used yet!"

I need a life.

There are several recurring themes here, some of which point to limitations when using vBulletin as a message board and as a content management system.

• many useful threads are buried under tons of other redundant threads
• useful information in a definitive thread is spread out through 150 replies
• the search function has no way of ranking popular results
• definitive articles are old and have dead picture links
• new users can't find what they're looking for, ask the question again
• senior users already know most of what they're interested to know, get sick of redundant newbie questions
• it's always more fun to dogpile on the n00b, than it is to track down the right answer/URL for them. Regardless, the message board shouldn't put that burden on the veteran user anyway.

Among the possible solutions, which don't involve costly add-ons to the message board software (some of this has already been suggested, trying to summarize here)

1. the experts nominate the best threads, and consolidate the information in the initial post or paraphrase into a new threads, more like technical articles.
2. the admins implement some kind of sidebar on the forum pages with links to popular articles per forum.
3. the initial email a user receives after joining gets revised into a decent html page, telling newbies where to look for information. I think people who find what they're looking for are generally going to abide by the CoC anyway.
4. split the "how much you will spend" article to accommodate zero-budget Fetts, weekend troopers, and screen-accurate prop replica fanatics. Contrary to popular belief, it is entirely possible for some TDH members to create a costume they are satisfied with, for less than $3,500.
5. maybe we have a separate forum just for introductions. A single intro thread is unmanageable as the TDH membership continues to increase. Possibly limit users' ability to post anywhere else until they've posted in the intro forum.

Count Dookie wrote:
1. split the "how much you will spend" article to accommodate zero-budget Fetts, weekend troopers, and screen-accurate prop replica fanatics. Contrary to popular belief, it is entirely possible for some TDH members to create a costume they are satisfied with, for less than $3,500.

That sounds pretty good. I too think there should be a seperate section for an economy Fett (3,500.00 or less) and a for those who are making Fetts with alittle more money to spend. It gets kind of old to here people say "WOW That's alot" or "A little to rich for my blood" The way I see it if you want the best, expect to pay more. Comments like will only Skyline you. C

Originally Posted by Count Dookie

There are several recurring themes here, some of which point to limitations when using vBulletin as a message board and as a content management system.

• many useful threads are buried under tons of other redundant threads
• useful information in a definitive thread is spread out through 150 replies
• the search function has no way of ranking popular results
• definitive articles are old and have dead picture links
• new users can't find what they're looking for, ask the question again
• senior users already know most of what they're interested to know, get sick of redundant newbie questions
• it's always more fun to dogpile on the n00b, than it is to track down the right answer/URL for them. Regardless, the message board shouldn't put that burden on the veteran user anyway.

Among the possible solutions, which don't involve costly add-ons to the message board software (some of this has already been suggested, trying to summarize here)

1. the experts nominate the best threads, and consolidate the information in the initial post or paraphrase into a new threads, more like technical articles.
2. the admins implement some kind of sidebar on the forum pages with links to popular articles per forum.
3. the initial email a user receives after joining gets revised into a decent html page, telling newbies where to look for information. I think people who find what they're looking for are generally going to abide by the CoC anyway.
4. split the "how much you will spend" article to accommodate zero-budget Fetts, weekend troopers, and screen-accurate prop replica fanatics. Contrary to popular belief, it is entirely possible for some TDH members to create a costume they are satisfied with, for less than $3,500.
5. maybe we have a separate forum just for introductions. A single intro thread is unmanageable as the TDH membership continues to increase. Possibly limit users' ability to post anywhere else until they've posted in the intro forum.

These actually are all really good. I nominate Dookie to do them!

Originally Posted by Seven

I think (if this is not what it is already) that it would be good to have a FAQ that lists all things about that particular topic that we know.

For example: In the Shin Tools and Blasters section, the FAQ section that is a stick would include info like:
ESB base of the blaster was a Webley & Scott Flare gun with a ASI scope, molex connectors....etc.

or in the Helmet section it would say:
Borden hole connector was used for the check, the MQ-1 calculator was used in the back key hole slots....etc.

Something that is well known to be found parts, fabrics, details, web links to companies that may sell these original parts, even templets, sewing patterns, and blueprints all in the FAQ to answer a lot of newbie questions and just have the info readly available for 'old timers'.

Being on this board for almost 5 years now, I have noticed that orginization is the best method for those whom have questions. As a newbie, you may not know what to search for, and it sometimes is just easier to make a new thread.

Just my 2 cents (though it may be off topic...)

THANK YOU!! I didn't know a good way to explain it because I know absolutely zilch about this stuff. But you nailed it on the head. THANKS!!!

Originally Posted by Brak's Buddy

hahahaha! ohhh... couldn't we have so much fun with that!!! They would of course have to be multipart questions...

Question 1) Give the full name for the folllowing: MSH, MSH2, ROTJ, ESB, ANH, FP, RA, MS, MH, BM, etc, etc.

Question 2) Name all the found parts that have been discovered and released so far.

Man, Arts going hardcore now...hahaha

Originally Posted by Mirax H

These actually are all really good. I nominate Dookie to do them!

I second that!

Those are actually some great ideas! We've run into the budget vs. screen accurate issues in the Zam forum. Room needs to be made for both I think. And consolidating useful information into one area is a lot of work... but probably a time and energy (stress?) saver in the long run. Just my 02.

Originally Posted by Count Dookie

There are several recurring themes here, some of which point to limitations when using vBulletin as a message board and as a content management system.

• many useful threads are buried under tons of other redundant threads
• useful information in a definitive thread is spread out through 150 replies
• the search function has no way of ranking popular results
• definitive articles are old and have dead picture links
• new users can't find what they're looking for, ask the question again
• senior users already know most of what they're interested to know, get sick of redundant newbie questions
• it's always more fun to dogpile on the n00b, than it is to track down the right answer/URL for them. Regardless, the message board shouldn't put that burden on the veteran user anyway.

Among the possible solutions, which don't involve costly add-ons to the message board software (some of this has already been suggested, trying to summarize here)

1. the experts nominate the best threads, and consolidate the information in the initial post or paraphrase into a new threads, more like technical articles.
2. the admins implement some kind of sidebar on the forum pages with links to popular articles per forum.
3. the initial email a user receives after joining gets revised into a decent html page, telling newbies where to look for information. I think people who find what they're looking for are generally going to abide by the CoC anyway.
4. split the "how much you will spend" article to accommodate zero-budget Fetts, weekend troopers, and screen-accurate prop replica fanatics. Contrary to popular belief, it is entirely possible for some TDH members to create a costume they are satisfied with, for less than $3,500.
5. maybe we have a separate forum just for introductions. A single intro thread is unmanageable as the TDH membership continues to increase. Possibly limit users' ability to post anywhere else until they've posted in the intro forum.

This sums up and expands on what I was trying to say all at the same time. Great post. I'ad rather see Count Dookie do some more work on his helmet stenzels than head this project. I like the wiki idea also, that gives everyone the chance to work on it a little at a time in a collaborative sort of way, i've never contributed to one, but I think i have the basic idea what it involves.

Well, if these are things that you, the members are wanting, then we ask that you, the members help create them and we will look into trying to implement them. Again, the administration just simply does not have the time to try and create the things that you are wanting but if you do, please, go for it and submit it to us and we will see what we can possibly do with it.

I think there should be an automatice disclaimer that comes up evry time a member under 30 days visits the forum that tells them building a Fett will cost more money than they expect.

But seriously, the Admin. staff could think about adding a child board to the Sarlacc pit as mentioned above just for new member intros, and inside the forum, there could be a couple pinned topics advising/telling them which threads to look through.Etc. They could also have say a 25 post minium before they can post topics, but the down side to it, new members might/proboly would spam the boards trying to get their number of posts in to post a topic.

Or they could do it the old fashion way and actualy use the search feature.

I'd quite happily write a basic "beginners guide" article to be included at the top of each section. I think with my level of knowledge there's no chance of me drifting into too much detail.

I'm about as new of a newbie as you can get with TDH. I've only been a member for a couple of days, and have made a whopping 3 or 4 posts. I haven't had any resposes, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it! I know people have those 'normal life' things that we'd all just as soon avoid sometimes, but they tend to get busy sometimes. Personally, I'd chalk the whole 'no reply' thing up to general busyness, and hopefully not people ignoring me. I'm not going to let the lack of someone answering get me down. I know people with their outfits done are not going to be one this forum as much as I am when I'm just compiling the stuff I need to get and do. Hopefully, however, I didn't make any of those 'quirky' references (although hansoloway mentioned the Klingon language I am guilty of mentioning Trek in a previous post...SORRY! I was just saying that ST can get into $$$$$ too, since Paramount only puts out garbage for "costumes" and if you want to do something right, DIY), but if I did, keep in mind I'm getting used to this, like the rest of the newbies are. I can say one thing I didn't know until yesterday...and that's the SEARCH option. Another forum I'm on that is very similar in layout doesn't have a search option. Which would explain why they have multiple posts of the same variety at times. So...I solemnly swear that I will ALWAYS search before I open my big yap... AMEN Bear with me, vets...we're all 'new' at something, sometime.

Originally Posted by ZamBamThankYouMaam

I'm about as new of a newbie as you can get with TDH. I've only been a member for a couple of days, and have made a whopping 3 or 4 posts. I haven't had any resposes, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it! I know people have those 'normal life' things that we'd all just as soon avoid sometimes, but they tend to get busy sometimes. Personally, I'd chalk the whole 'no reply' thing up to general busyness, and hopefully not people ignoring me. I'm not going to let the lack of someone answering get me down. I know people with their outfits done are not going to be one this forum as much as I am when I'm just compiling the stuff I need to get and do. Hopefully, however, I didn't make any of those 'quirky' references (although hansoloway mentioned the Klingon language I am guilty of mentioning Trek in a previous post...SORRY! I was just saying that ST can get into $$$$$ too, since Paramount only puts out garbage for "costumes" and if you want to do something right, DIY), but if I did, keep in mind I'm getting used to this, like the rest of the newbies are. I can say one thing I didn't know until yesterday...and that's the SEARCH option. Another forum I'm on that is very similar in layout doesn't have a search option. Which would explain why they have multiple posts of the same variety at times. So...I solemnly swear that I will ALWAYS search before I open my big yap... AMEN Bear with me, vets...we're all 'new' at something, sometime.

This is a great example of the right attitude and outlook to have on these or any boards. Well said, and well done ZamBamThankYouMaam. And that's all I gots to say about that.

Hi!

Some words of a newbie!!!

I´m a 44y old father who wanna scratchbuild a Boba.
This site is incredible good for people like me who are not a geek in SW modelling.

My english is not pretty well I no, and for some words I´ve had to look to the dictonary

All the "old" members are very friendly - too friendly maybe!!!

We newbies need criticism!!!
We all can learn by our faults.

But there isn´t any criticism. Everyone said "wonderful", "good so far for the first time" aso.

Nobody said "godd sor far, but....".
This is, what I´m missing; please give us some hints to make a better work.

Hope you understand my rusty english

Thx,

Thomas

Originally Posted by eighteendelta

Mirax is working on something, I don't think it's a booth though, not sure she has given out details yet.

-x

Well, we have dinner AND a booth! Check out the following threads:

http://www.thedentedhelmet.com/forum...ad.php?t=19967
http://www.thedentedhelmet.com/forum...ad.php?t=19947

Seven, that's actually a very good point. That happens a lot and I've even been guilty of it myself. I'll made comments (the most recent yesterday) where I admit I was thinking.... man... talk about digging up the dead!

You're right though. If the topic is still valid and we're telling folks to search instead of asking again than what do we really expect them to do?

Is there a way to set up a limit to how long a thread can still be replied to. Maybe like after a year or so, or a certain period of inactivity. Then if the question is still not answered they one can fire away. Just a thought.

Why should it matter? Why are we worried about stopping people from replying to or asking questions? Why does it matter if the question was asked two years ago or 15 minutes ago? if it's relevant, then it's relevant. There are some pretty obvious signs usually when someone is just trolling, but leave that to the admin to decide. That's my thought on it all.

-x

Yeah, I agree completely.
I can't stand seening a member whose not an Admin, scolding someone for reviving a post, but has a relevent comment or question.

As a new member, I would like to comment here. I find this site to be an awesome resource, and there are a lot of talented members who post pics of their work and make go "ummm.... WOW". On the other hand, I find the site is just so busy - there are always people online and they are always posting something. When I check in it becomes a task to keep up with the new posts before another string of posts have been added. I think it may partly be the level of activity that seems to detract from the potentially friendly atmosphere. Obvioulsy I'm not trying to suggest the posting needs to be slowed down. People post because they love the Fett stuff.

I do, however, find it difficult to find answers to the questions I have. Being new to the Fett costuming arena I don't have all the "old news" answers that many of you do. I could do a search, but if I don't know the right words to use I'm outa luck. For instance, I only just recently learned the Borden connector bit is called a "mole" by Fett enthusiasts.

For this reason it is difficult to refrain from posting, even when you feel that the question has probably come up a zillion times before.

GB

Originally Posted by eighteendelta

Why should it matter? Why are we worried about stopping people from replying to or asking questions? Why does it matter if the question was asked two years ago or 15 minutes ago? if it's relevant, then it's relevant. There are some pretty obvious signs usually when someone is just trolling, but leave that to the admin to decide. That's my thought on it all.

-x

Originally Posted by Rat_Fett

Yeah, I agree completely.
I can't stand seening a member whose not an Admin, scolding someone for reviving a post, but has a relevent comment or question.

I'm not really worried about stopping it and I have never scolded someone for reviving an old post. I totally agree with what Seven and webchief said. Shoot, there are many things I would have missed in the beginning had it not been for an old post dragged up by someone. I was just throwing out the idea for those members who are apparently offended by it, so that they wouldn't be upset when it happened. Matter of fact, I answered a new question in a revived thread a couple weeks ago and someone made a comment about it being an old thread.