Zam Rifle

I have no hopes of getting a real gun, but thought maybe I could find the dimensions and some better pictures if I new the make and model.

Anybody have any ideas?
I almost looks like a muzzle loading revolutionary war era gun to me- but I don't know anything about guns other than which end is the hurty end


-cris

I am actually working on that very item. I have begun a search of older Stocks from Black Powder Rifles. I know that the Barrel is not from one as it is longer, but a lot of the stock and trigger area is. I will post what I come up with very soon. I need a bit of a clue in on what is a good material to make molds with. I am ready to cast some of my items I have been working on. so anyone able to help me out please let me know. Also I will soon have completed Bead strands for Zam that will very close to Actual.

Ok I have done my research and believe I have located the Rifle that is the base for Zam's Projectial Rifle. This web page is a very good source and I am very sure it is the Remington Springfield Rilfe that is listed under the civil war section of this web site. http://www.armisport.com/civil.htm

Now everyone understands that not all the parts are used in the Prop. I am goign to begin to work on finding a good match for the Scope that was added to the top of the rife. Anyone wish to share their thoughts?

I dont think it's a real scope at all.

But then again I don't know guns.


thanks for sharing about the rifle though!

-cris

I used to own an 1861 Springfield rifle musket, and it is close to that. But it actually looks more like a combo of a few.

Look for the old Kentucky black powder muskets, or even british Enfields of that era. Zam's rifle shares characteristics of all of these.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say it was custom built. It's sooooo long...too long for a standard rifle.

However, if I'm proven wrong, that'll be a good thing too

edit:::
typo

I think it looks like a little of both. I definitely think the base was a musket or something but I think the barrel was modified to be longer and a scope was added. I think they probably went about it like they did with Boba Fett's blaster, take a cool gun and add to it and make it even cooler. But I could be proven wrong as well!

The Stock is the only thing that I see usable for Zam's Rifle. Well Also the trigger area, but the Barrel is definatly longer and the ram rod is longer as well. I have plans to use what I can, but I expect to make changes to make it closer to the real thing.

could the stock below the barrel be all original, but just extended? i.e. the white spaces were added to stretch out the original and a new longer barrel added to replace the too short one?

That is my theory. I ampretty sure the sliver or white (which ever ya wish to call them) spaces are the areas that were extended. The idea I got from the movie is that this rifle is about as tall as Zam when stood on the butt of the stock. So depending on how tall you are would determin how much you would have to change. I am a nice 5'11" so I get to have fun makeing it longer.

I'm using this Wood & Metal rifle my sis bought from Disneyland for my bro as the general base of the rifle. It's one of those old rifle, double black barrels and that orange cover at the tip of the barrel. And it need Heavy modifications (aka lots screwing and plying and drilling)

What wrong with the rifle:
1)Angel of Butt is wrong (CURRENT: Almost straight) so it need a new butt. No problem cause the butt is wood in the first place but I'll really need to go looking for the wood of the same thickness and weight (it's quite heavy weight so NOT Balsam or Rubber Wood).

2) Barrel wrong (CURRENT: Double small ones). Will need to ply off the current barrel, make a bigger valley in the wooden Barrel "Handle" and put in the new barrel.
PROBLEM: What's the diametre and lenght (in relationship to Zam's Height cause I'm only 1.52+metre tall) of the Barrel for Zam's Rifle

3) Tigger Protector wrong shape (CURRENT: Half oval with a little metal protuting at the back). But I think I can live with it. Or I'll replace it all together while still retaining the tigger. :p

4) Side Metal "Power Amplifier Circuitry" almost the same shape but got this metal thinging on it that allow the rifle to be cock and give a "pop" sound when "fired". I'll removed the thinging and reshape the side metal but I may be tempted to replace the whole thing altogether.

5) Give the whole thing a scope and a barrel cleaning rod.

But before I go about modifying the rifle, I need to get the help of the 2 guys from here who got lots of experiences making props from scratch, learn from them and borrow their tools. Oh, and go looking for the parts to replace the wrong parts of the current rifle.

So do you think it'll work?

Will post a current(original shape of rifle) picture of it soon.

eek! that DOES sound like a project!!!

I WAS considering starting from scratch, but I opted for this one on EBAY. Hopefully it will be a good starting point, but there is still alot of butchering to do

-cris

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2113628254

we will try and take better pics as we go- and maybe make it sort of a follow allong dealie.

cris - cool find. I, like you, know NOTHING about guns - so to me... this looks close enough (with heavy mods, of course)... perhaps i'll get one too

DCB, I thought about beating you to it but I let you get it. Another one will turn up. Great find kimncris, I think it looks almost dead on. A few mods here and there and you will be knocking jedi off flying droids in no time.

there are MANY on there... look up "Kentucky flintlock" Lots of replaics with a BIN of $70ish pricetag.

Yea, here is one with a $91 price tag that includes shipping.

http://www.swdecor.com/flintlocks-1.htm

Chris Trevas from the parts of star wars found this one actually. I tried to find something a little closer, but no luck.

There is a KIT available that lets you construct a REAL working black powder rifle, but it's about $200 and still needs all of the butchering. So I figuered, what's the point!?

I'll let you know how this transaction works out. Total with shipping was 78.90

-cris

I think it look real close to the actual gun. I will probably order one as well. Thanks again for the heads up!

Wow, Cris! That's sure a lot closer to the real thing than mine! (My bro called it Red Indian Rifle; sorry for the use of Red Indian). It sure will need a lot less butchering as I still need to dig my way into the wooden handle underneath the barrel and replace the butt etc.

And the angle of the butt and the tigger guard looks correct. Only need to shorten(?) the wood under the barrel (I think), give it the new barrels and replace the "Power Amplifier Circuitry".

LOL, the problem with me is that I hasn't work that hard at my props before (my IRG Forcepike was just a metal pipe and wooden dowel someone shaped for me) so I really need to start producing something. And next year I'm forgoing all other costumes for this baby. Moreover, I can't bring in a gun into Singapore (lots of paperwork & negotiating to do and my rifle will end up ORANGE when it gets into my hands) while replicas sold here cost a bomb. And I got this Rifle with me right now so why waste? :p


EDIT: You are tempting me, Criss . . . Today I tagged along with 2 members of the other SW group here to a Weapon Replica Shop (Caesars Gun Gallery http://www.caesars.com.sg ) and while they were drooling over the Katana, I was over a Rifle that looks like the one you had bought. Ya, it's available here but the price tag is SG$237 ($202 if member)/USD129. It's Item 1197, 107cm I think.
Yours and the one Spidey2222 recommanded can be brought in too for me by the shop and cost SGD268 ($228 Members) and it is item 1201 110cm.
But I think I better work on my bro's rifle first before attempting anything on this 1201 babe cause it's gonna cost a bomb IMHO for me.

Nice find Cris!!

Looks like you scored 80% of Zam's rifle! Now comes the conversion work!!

Looking forward to seeing the results of your efforts!

The Rifle Cris bought is back at eBay at the same price (Item #2114390626).

Grab it for those interested!

can't speak to the rest of it, but the trigger guard looks an awful lot like the one off of the 1803 Harper's Ferry rifle.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976201320.htm


replica triggerguards (and other parts) are available from:


http://www.dixiegunworks.com/

http://www.trackofthewolf.com

-M

Hmm, how about the scope? Anyone found anything that looked like can be used for it?

For me, come worse to worse, use metal pipe with 2 tap/hose nozzle. :p

I think Cris may be planning to machine the scope...

Kim

Bad news rifle fans....

Mine arrived today broken

anyway- they seller was very nice about it and is having it shipped back to him so that he can send me a replacement.

In the mean time, I snapped a couple of pics that may help anyone who needs to scale any of the pieces. This will allow me to start working on the scope. What are the dark areas on the scope? Knurling? Paint? ??









-cris

Hey, I got mine in and it wasn't broken :p . I can't wait to start the conversion. It will probably take me a little longer since I can't really machine any of the parts. I look forward to seeing the progress of yours and getting some input!

I didn't get mine yet maybe today!!!!! YEAH!

Eeeeeeeee! Strawberry Shortcake!!!

Wait a minute . . . I suppose to look at the rifle! :p

Wow! It's big. But Cris, how much did it weight? I'm really tempted to get it off eBay instead of buying it here if I can get the whole thing with shipping for US$100+/- as it's ~US$150+ here. Think I can work out the legal stuffs with bringing it into Singapore, somehow.

And how much bigger did you or Kim enlarge that full size picture?

Darth_Eagle, my rifle was actually real light. I was kind of suprised. It is just a replica so it is non-firing and could never be made to fire. You might want to contact the seller and see what it would cost to ship overseas. I bet you will be under the $100 range.

Here is a link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2117605635

The rifle itself was not all that heavy but once it has all of that other stuff added on...I'm going to need an assistant to carry it for me!

Cris scaled the picture off of the plate on the side of the gun. I'm 5ft 6in if that gives you an idea of the height.

Kim

Now that is nice work. I look forward to seeing the completed Rifle.

Wow, Cris! Look great! Can't wait to see the finish product!

So have you and Kim consider helping some of us in the near future to get certain parts? *giving kawaii puppy eyes*

got my replacement rifle today UNHARMED!!!

took a lttle extra time I think due to the 4th- but the TGParrot seller is a stand up guy if you are in the market for a Zam rilfe

-cris

If I could find a host I will take a picture of my Stock I am working on. the stock and all the wood extensions on it make it about as tall as I am. I am a nice 5'11" and I plan to extend the length some as well.

Looking great, I am eager to get on mine now! Urgg, Spidey needs more tools.

Wow! Amazing work, Cris. It looks fantastic, as well as the rest of the costume Hope to see some pics from Comic Con!

-Austin

now that's just absolutely cool as all get out, that's for sure...

It look manificant! I'm even more impressed by both you and Kim's "magic fingers"!

Now I'm itching to get one and start on it too but must have the money to get it in the first place! :p Must also secure a "Technical" Lab where I can do all the drilling and grinding first too!

I added a little more to the "tutorial" texts above

I also forgot to add thet my barrel is a 4ft section of extruded aluminum 5/8" OD tubing and the ramrod is 1/4" aluminum.

this is the resin I used for the clear parts



-cris

Kim/Cris:

Gun looks excellent. And no buckets in the glamor shot either....

Does that clear resin work real well? Seen it at the local hobby shop but was scared of it. How do you keep air bubbles out of it (besides stirring it very slowly)?

thanks Dan yes I moved the buckets out of the way this time.



the resin works OK, it takes a lot longer to kick, so you can wait for the bubbles to rise for a little bit- but not TOO long or it turns to jelly. Otherwise, stir and pour slowly and in a fairly large stream. Otherwise you will froth it up with lots of tiny bubbles.

The 2 worst things about this resin is that it STINKS ROYALLY and it is very fragile. I was afraid to use it too, but it was the only thing I could get at the last minute. No breakage yet. We shall see how it survives the trip to Comicon. I made them fairly easy to swap out- so maybe if they break I will order something else that is a little stronger.

-cris

OK. I'm planning to do the rifle shortly. I'll try something else and give you the skinny. Probably use something from Smooth-on or Silpak as I am familiar with their products.

Well no offense towards anyone, but I am under the impression that the clear sections that Kimnchris made where actually gaps in the stock that had nothign there just the barrel and the ram rod. That is how I plan to do mine atleast. I got my trigger guard and the side plates today. Gotta clean up the trigger guard and then add all to my stock. I really need to find a host so I can take and post some pictures up

Hey No Offense! This is just my interpretation of a really small picture. I have nothing else to go on- and I thought the clear resin bits looked cool- so I went with it

hopefully the rifle will be at MOM in Austrailia so somebody can get some close ups and stuff (and the upgrades can commence)

On the action figure, it appears to be similar to what you describe. Does anyone know if the 12" figure comes with the rifle? Is there a real-scan somewhere? (BTW it's going to kill me if these show up 2 days before we leave before Comicon- but I knew that the minute I finished it a better photo would surface)

-cris

laughs and realises it was your interputation and that is why I did not want to offend. I think the end goal is for all of us to help each ohter out. I am very impressed with all you have don ewith the rifle so far. IO am going much slower on mine as I can afford to be slow about it since I have decided I will not have anything ready on my zam until Dragoncon 2003. So I got time to learn and improve it all. I do have one small question. What did you use for the cord looking tiems that wrap about the barrel and how are they attack and how is the barrel secured?

I personally like the clear sections and am going to use that idea when I do mine. From what I can see, it looks correct but you are right Chris, it is hard to tell off of just one picture.

Ragresen wrote:I do have one small question. What did you use for the cord looking tiems that wrap about the barrel and how are they attack and how is the barrel secured?

(well I'm too impatient to wait til Dragoncon '03 I wanted it NOW! Once I get obsessed by something, I just have to work and work until I have something finished, or else it starts to bother me )

To answer the question, I used rubber O rings. The inner diameter is the same as the outer diameter of the barrel (5/8") so they do not require anything other than friction to keep them in place.

The barrel is screwed to the stock pieces through the bottom, hidden by the ramrod. There is a picture above where you can see the screws I think.

-cris

Great pics! I love the last one I'm still in awe of the costume, simply fantastic! Anymore pics to share?

-Austin

woohoo we just noticed that Kim made StarWars.com!!


http://www.starwars.com/community/ne...html?imgNum=41


and


http://www.starwars.com/community/ne...html?imgNum=50


-cris

Woo Hoo! Congrats!

-Austin

Insider 057, Page 47 shows her holding the rifle. Upon a close look, it does look blank. Good thing because I was having a bugger of a time making a clear resin piece that didn't have any bubbles in it. Yea, I can make the scope and finish the gun this weekend, maybe!

Good Catch on that insider picture! I was looking at that same picture and I think you all may be right about the gaps. The toy rifle that comes with the 12" doll and the action figure sort of has the gaps too- except that the plastic kind of fills in between the barrel and the cleaning rod.

The good thing is that I can always take my clear resin parts out and not effect the rest of the gun! The are held in place by a tiny bit of glue and the silver rings But they look really cool- so maybe I'll leave them until they break or get really scratched up.

I scratchbuilt my scope mounts out of some PVC pipe and styrene. I used bondo to fill in the middle and make the perfect contour to mount over the barrel. However, since I needed 2, I molded the original and made resin ones for the finished rifle, so sure, if anyone wants them, I can make some more.

I'll try to post a better picture of it later tonight or tomorrow.

I am pretty much out of the casting metal, but if I can get some more, I still have the mold for that too. It would require some serious sanding to get the nice shiny finish though

-cris

I am interested in the scope mounts and the metal detail at the end of the stock. I don't mind sanding and polishing it myself. Let me know on a price.

I just got my rifle today - and was snooping around the forum to see if anyone else had done the mods to it!

Kimncris - THANK YOU so much for the "tutorials" on how you did the rifle modifications! This is such a big help!

And if anyone else has any tips or hints on the rifle - please post them! It looks like a big project and I'll need to keep my sanity through this part so I can finish with the rest of the costume! Wonder if they let you wear costumes in the asylum?

Well I am still slowly and carefully working on my rifle. I am takeing my time on it as it is important that is lookvery good and accurate.

thanks MausMaus, if you want your gun to be more accurate, do not use the clear resin like I did.

One of these days I'll have a stab at machining that lower scope thing too and finish up Kim's! Unfortunately my web design skills are lacking- so that tutorial website I wanted to build may have to wait for the time being

-cris

If anyone needs the Kentucky Flintlock base let me know, I have an extra I am not going to do anything with. It is still in the box. Just PM me.

kimncris wrote:
thanks MausMaus, if you want your gun to be more accurate, do not use the clear resin like I did.

I know it isn't "canon" and I'm not going to do it with my rifle... but I still think it looks pretty cool! I liked the idea of it.

BTW - I saw that you've got that large, life-size image of the rifle that you printed out - for reference work. Where did you get that pic from as I've not seen it anywhere (or am I just blind? )

I made it myself I scaled up the visual dictionary photo to match one of the pieces of hardware on the denix rifle. I think they must have used a real gun, because it was not an exact match, but it was really close.

It's really big, over 3 megs! so I can't even email it to you. I might be able to upload it somewhere. Let me try that.

-cris


edit: well as you can see ALL of my photos are now broken. The server must be down. I'll try again later

-cris

Thanks so much!!!

Gee, since I'm not gender-equipped for Zam, I never really looked here. Too bad and I'm sorry . Perhaps I could be of future assistance on this topic. I have been shooting black-powder muzzleloaders for years. I build them, not from kits, but mostly from scratch. I am also a certified shooting instructor in all three disciplines of muzzleloader. All this added to the fact that I am heavily into pre-1840 history which is the era of these firearms. Please feel free to PM me with any questions, or I will even check here from time to time. ...here's a bit of advice; if the finish on your lockplate (the flat metal side plate with the large cock on it) is a darkish-blackish color, it may be "blued". In this case, you can try removing it with Naval Jelly or LimeAway. ...I apologize for not even knowing exactly what Zam's piece looks like aside from what I saw in the movie. If anyone has a nice close-up, I may be able to tell the exact piece/pieces used in it's construction. Maybe .

Zam I Am wrote:
I LOVED his lazer pointer, that's what us zammers should put into the scope mount of any future rifles

From the Farpoint Thread: http://tdh.prop-planet.com/viewtopic...=8389&forum=10

That brings up a good question (for me at least) The scope on the rifle... Has anyone figured out if its a "found" item or custom?

Kmncris did a fantastic tutorial and write up on the Zam rifle: http://tdh.prop-planet.com/viewtopic...=1157&forum=10. They custom made the scope, but I don't have the talent or $$$ to do that myself.

Suggestions on how to make this from easily found parts? How would a lazer pointer be attached... *yep... I'm pretty ignorant on this stuff...*

I am working on or was working on Zam's rifle, but it has been put aside for other things for now. I will eventually get around to working on it once again. I know the stock is based on a black powder rifle that is close to the kentuckey rifles, but I believe it is not that specific stock. I have a stock that was a unfinished custom stock for a black podwer rifle and when I am done I may make a mold of the stock for selling kits for it. But again it is all a ways off unfortantly as I got so much more Zam stuff to do plus I have an Anime project that is going to eat up close to a year of work.

I've got the base already and have been working on it... sanding it down, painting it, etc.

I'm just not sure how I'm going to make the scope.

Another question: Are there two scopes? One on top one on the side?

One Scope on the top. the thing on the side is called a Power something or another. One the Zam 12 inch doll is liekly the best reference as to what it looks like.

Hello I'm currently working on a Zam Rifle and need very good pics/details and measurements for the scope. I am going to machine the scope and just want to get it as close to the prop as possible.

Start here:

http://tdh.prop-planet.com/viewtopic...=8842&forum=10

I think the links that kimncris posted regarding the "life-size" Zam Rifle image are still valid... if not I still have the image and can email it to you.

Erm.. btw... you wouldn't be interested in making more than one of those scopes...would you? That's the real killer for me on the rifle - finding the scope and associated parts!

If all goes well, I might do a very small run of a few. Thanks for the link.

Now that I have the corrrect thread (sorry about the redundent post) I'm currently getting ready to mill a Zam scope but want to get it as accurate as possible. A friend of mine e-mailed me these dementions for the scope. Do they seem correct? Should I make it a solid piece? If so the mounting brackets would give me trouble.



Any Ideas? I'm not a Zam Costume person, but really like the weapons she uses.

I would make it so one of the two ends can be threaded on and off. Also the 12" length is pretty close to what is needed to fit right to most rifles that will be made on black powder rifle stocks.

Thanks.. I could make it out of a solid piece of pipe stock, but making the ends and threading them would be better and less time consuming.

That's my scope,and I don't remeber making that measured pic- but that doesn't mean I didn't The measurements seem about right though.

Anyway, if you want the best way to get the measurements, I would suggest scaling a photo of the real prop up to the same size as the denix rifle. That is what I did.

I also threaded the end pieces onto a ready made tube stock. I remember that it was smaller than 5/8 so 1/2" sounds about right. I had a real hard time getting them to screw onto the tube absolutely straight, but once the gun was all put together, it was hard to tell.

-cris

cris my new friend Ryan who just moved here sent me that pic...he might know you. Thanks for the tips..I'm going to research this project a bit more before getting started.

Hey Cris,

Yep that's you're scope! Around last November I had been talking to you as I was making a rifle for HothGirl and you passed along that pic with the measurements...I picked up some scope mounts from you too. Pretty much all that is left to finish for HothGirl's Zam Rifle are the scopes. Hope you don't mind I forwarded it to Tambo to have machined.

--Ryan

No prob. I'm sure that's why I sent you the pic I just never saved it to my HD I guess...

Post pics whn you are done!

-cris

LFL Archive pics from C3:

bravo, that looks so nice!