A friend of ours had this in his personal collection... granted, the focus was a little off, but check it out!
it's foam inside
Discussion on Zam Fabric within the Zam Wesell Costume forum, part of the Star Wars Prequel Trilogy Bounty Hunters category; A friend of ours had this in his personal collection...
A friend of ours had this in his personal collection... granted, the focus was a little off, but check it out!
it's foam inside
And the other part is blue. The Jango costume has a blue jumpsuit, made of neoprene, under his "seen" jumpsuit. So that's interesting.
Hmm.. I wonder how hot that would be though..
it has to be a little more comfortable than neoprene.
we couldn't really tell what kind of foam it was, other than it was foam and it was dark grey, about 1/8". Definitely not neoprene though.
Yeah I see that, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's wearing a full neoprene undersuit, if that piece of blue is even neoprene. Anyway, it's not really important.
Sorry for the hijack of the thread
with as much trouble as everyone has had finding this fabric, I'd say Trisha had it made special for the zam costume. But maybe they used odds and ends for foam padding under Jango's armor?
Did you get a chance to see how it wrinkled up? Did it wrinkle the same like at the elbows and knees? (Looks like headliner - used in cars - to me). Hmmm..... Very interesting.
no - we only happened to have a few seconds with it as we were on our way out. But we couldn't pass up the chance to touch it and take a couple of pics for you guys! He said he got it from one of Trisha's assistants.
I have to say, the color looks pretty close to ZamIAm's fabric. When you first posted the picture I thought it actually was the ZIA fabric.
i wish I had a swatch to compare, but I think Yvonne got the color exactly right
I think she did too. Even when comparing ZIA's fabric to the FIDM exhibit... I really think the lighting played havoc on the fabric (Meaning the lighting in the exhibit was WAAAY different from just standing outside the exhibit) and I believe the fabric faded over time as well. I know the leather parts did - just comparing them to how they appeared in stills and the film to how they were at the FIDM exhibit.
It explains all of the wrinkles in some of the promo shots. How odd, I wonder if they used two way or 4 way lycra. KimnCris- you get the I'm not worthy smiley... too bad they don't have the right smileys . You guys just made me cry tears of joy after so many years of hard work and group effort. You guys are truly the "original" zammers. If it wasn't for you at C2, we wouldn't have been inspired to even make our fabric/version. Go TEAM ZAM! Wohoo! Nudge nudge, DCB - you blipped all of the darn siggies! Oh wait, that was already 2 1/2 - 3 years ago!
Nice find Cris, thanks for sharing!!!
I was able to get my hands on the swatch of leftover Zam neoprene this weekend and have permission to post photos. I came prepared - I brought a swatch of the Zam I Am neoprene to compare and I also brought my Pantone Guide for Fashion and Home.
Here is the comparison photo:
I would have to say that the Zam-I-Am fabric is quite a bit brighter than the true stuff. The real fabric has a LOT more gray mixed in to the dye. It's a lot drabber. A very gray-purple.
It was interesting, the underside is lined with the same kind of nylon that's on the top side but it was a very dark blue-violet. It almost made me wonder if they were unsure what color to go with and decided to have 2 different colors on either side of the neoprene?
I believe it was an open cell type neoprene, and it was just a fraction thicker than what Zam I Am ordered. It was also a dark grayish/black neoprene foam.
My pantone match was between "Black Plum" (which was a bit too dark) and "Flint" It really depended on how the light was reflecting off the neoprene though as to how dark or light it looked. Sometimes Flint looked right, sometimes not. It always remained in that grayish plum family.
I should have tugged on the fabric a bit more to see if it was 2 way or 4 way stretch. Oh well!
Last edited by Kay_Dee; Feb 3, 2009 at 5:14 PM.
I wonder what kind of effect UV Light might have on the ZamIAm fabric (or what kind of effect it may have had on the real fabric).
I know Zam I Am did her best based on a pantone match that was made at an exhibit through glass. There could have been a bright spotlight on that and when bright light shines on things it makes them appear lighter than they are. At least with this I was able to hold the pantone guide right up to the fabric. Nothing in my guide was a 100% match but I think the Flint is what I'd shoot for (maybe a tad lighter) if I could dye my own fabric. Problem is getting it laminated to neoprene
Actually I was talking about prolonged exposure, as in fading. Thanks for the comparison pics though.
Just a quick note.. got my fabric delivered yesterday from the Stretch house so its still available at this time.
KayDee, I am a little confused, is the top left swatch the one you got from that store in Cali, or is it from your pantone book? And, is the "actual" (on the right) the same one that KimnCris had? and, if so, when you say neoprene, do you know if it was just thicker foam? I got the feeling from looking at the KnC shot that it was almost like headliner foam (like from a car) And, with your shot, there is no foam shot, so I didn't know if it was the same swatch. I inquire about this, only cause headliner foam - less dense, more thick, has a tendency to crease, and in some special shots that Zam is in, there are creases. If the neoprene relaxes which it does more easily than headliner, you usually don't have the creasing, Especially if it's hung on a mannequin. Just some tidbits on how density of foam and type of foam and thickness of foam's reaction on what you see in pictures. I know in dressing a galaxy they said "neoprene." But technically, there are tons of different types. Partial dissertation on neoprene here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoprene
Yep, ZIA neoprene is open cell. I figured they (Trisha Biggar) would've use something thicker for short time length movie shots and (and budget). But for practical at home sewing purposes and costuming (in all climates )purposes, I had the neoprene co. thin it down as much as possible on the off chance that people could sew it at home. Even though, technically, it would be better to sew it with an industrial. I didn't want people passing out, thus open cell. If it was closed cell, people would suffocate like vinyl does.
Flash and angle sure does make a difference.
Kaydee pic with flash
KnC pic with flash
Kaydee pic no flash
Stretchhouse pic comparison (no flash) from another thread.
Take into consider movie filters screen shots, photoshopped promo pics, vd pics, etc.
Look at Kaydee's pic next to knc's how hard is that to discern?! ! ZIA fabric (her 1st and 2nd pic flash and no flash- bottom left swatch) looks closer to Knc's shot imo. What do you think? The sheen is the biggest problem. Short of taking the swatch from the actual source swatch to a professional dying company to match the pantone, we're never gonna get it 100%. That's what I had hoped long time ago to get when the huge "dressing a galaxy" when all the swatches came out. Mine book didn't come with a zam swatch unfortunatly. Boy, was I scouring.
Visual dictionary or Dressing a galaxy called it dark lilac I think. But Kaydee's top left swatch is pretty darn close without the flash, but Kaydee's pic with the flash top left swatch, almost looks too pink imho.
I just wanted to play devil's advocate, and also help people reconcile the feelings of the need for accuracy and what people will ultimately wear. Accuracy of color according to which photo, screen shot, lighting etc. is what we can all plainly state, that it matches one or some of the xyz shots. Obviously, unless we had the real swatch to take to the manufacturer, we can't be 100% and there are "closer colors." I am glad that the ZIA fabric is one of the "closer" ones and the fabric is has a sheen to enable lighting variances I do also see the need for a drabbier gray.
Last edited by Zam I Am; Feb 21, 2009 at 8:50 PM.
Top left swatch - lycra from a California store. It was too reddish/pinkish. I just brought it in case.
The actual on the right is the same one Kim and Cris looked at. It was from Steve Sansweet's collection. Kim and Cris just didn't have your fabric in hand for comparison and by 'memory' thought yours seemed right from what I understand. I tried to take a 'foam' shot and all came out blurry. The color of the foam was dark charcoal/blackish. It was light weight so seemed to be open cell. I can't say if it was like headliner board foam. I have lots of that but just can't tell you for certain if that is what it was. I just have a memory that it seemed more like a neoprene, not headliner foam... but I didn't analyze it that hard. I'd think headliner foam wouldn't make a very nice suit and trisha's team would know to use something better
Your neoprene thickness is just about dead on. Yours was only a very minute fraction narrower. Yours was thinner by literally the thickness of a hair (or a piece of fabric), I swear! So you made the right call on the thickness you chose for sure!
My blurry side by side 'foam' shot. Sorry, my camera didn't want to focus. I tried twice and gave up.
Your fabric is still the closest we have. Regardless of how the color looks in kimncris' shot and photos in a book, my picture showing yours right next to the real thing shows the variance. Yes, I think your fabric has a bit more sheen. But even w/o flash and with the naked eye I have to say for the sake of research (not to bash your fabric at all!) the real fabric is darker and grayer in color. A dash more red undertone to it too (which is probably why my top swatch looks OK in no flash shots, but no flash shots are not a good clear representation of color due to.... lack of light!)
Yep... I still say we did good! (Meaning mostly ZIA ) That color is just so HARD to get - it really does depend on the lighting and the angle you're looking at it from! Adding film/digital camera colors on top of monitor colors to the mix - well, we're lucky we're even talking the same language here!
And honestly, I think the the bodysuit we saw at FIDM had faded (especially after reading about what happened to MonCal!) - so I think the color we were comparing it to then was different than the original color.
I really think when making this costume, you need to pick a color that is similar and that looks good to you and simply base the rest of the colors of the costume off of that. This costume isn't for sissies!
Well, my hubby thought, why not weather it, then scotch gaurd it
to what Maulmaus said. Maulmaus, you contributed a lot too. Technically, we can credit DCB for everything -- he's the one that went all the way to Aussie the first time.
Trisha and her team "not knowing." I don't think that is the case, it's just that certain material just provides different looks, and it was for their movie shooting outcome, and not to serve our particular costuming needs but-theirs. They could've just picked up fabric at a "left over" warehouse for all we know, instead of having it custom done. Our guess is that they probably did about the same number of costumes as Jango's but we could be entirely wrong. I know that there were at least 5 gauntlets made. And, I know that there probably was a hero suit vs. a stunt suit. We've been picking crumbs of info since 2002. Different types of neoprene for different purposes, and, if it's thickness was different by a hair, then, I don't think it was headliner foam. It's just that Cris' shot was taken so close, it looked thick enough to be headliner foam. We're doing best guess still. So, I guess we should just raid Sansweet's closet again, this time with a pair of scissors
Last edited by Zam I Am; Feb 22, 2009 at 8:09 PM.
Hi I've just joined the forum and I'm just about to start my Zam costume. I've been looking for the correct neoprene here in the UK.
I've not gone through all the posts yet and excuse me if this has been mentioned before but has anyone tried dying or painting neoprene?
I've got a good source for neoprene here but just not the right colour
Well... we had the lycra which covers the neoprene custom dyed for us (Thanks to ZamIAm) several years ago. But dyeing neoprene itself... I don't know. That is synthetic and problematic at best - impossible at worst.
Dharma Trading Company here in the US carries just about every kind of fabric dye available. I'm sure there is something similar in the UK - many of their dyes are European. Dharma also has lots of information available on their website about dyeing different fabric types, so you might find your answer there.
Thanks Maulmaus for the information. I didn't realise it was lycra covered but that helps as I've dyed lycra before and had some good colour results.
I used Dylon multi purpose dye in a Burco Boiler to get it really hot. Colour was fixed with salt. I started with white lycra and the end colour was a bright lapis blue.
You certainly have a point about the heat seperating the lycra from the neoprene! It would be a bit of a disaster.
Hopefully I'm going to get some samples this week of different lycra covered neoprene. If I get time I'll have a go at dyeing it and see what happens.
When we had our custom run done - we had the lycra custom dyed first - then attached to the neoprene...
Looking at the samples in the photos above, the original swatch in the first post looks quite matt in colour and with the flash?? Then looking at the Zam publicity shots the fabric looks more shiny?
A friend once used a fabric for some dance costumes which had a neoprene backing but had a cotton based stretch top fabric. I'm investigating where it came from. Will post when I have more info
I almost wonder if there was a way to dunk something like the neoprene I got from Zam I Am which in something like a solution of jaquard textile color/paint just to gray down the color a bit? That wouldn't rely on a heated dye bath... maybe even airbrushing?
As far as how shiny the nylon should be... I did notice that the Zam I Am run of nylon was a bit shinier than that used on the movie costume. The movie costumes nylon does have shine to it, it' isn't totally matte in texture at all. It's just not as shiny as the Zam I Am stuff.
Just a theory but I wondered if the original Zam costume colour was airbrushed?? Picking up on Kay_Dee's point about how difficult it is to dye lycra covered neoprene because of the volume but also the risk of fabric separation. Mind you I'm sure thay had plenty of facilities to make these costumes!
There seems to be so many tones in the dye which I think could be achieved by airbrushing over the finished suit. The neoprene backing would help to control the lycra and stop the dye leaking through. Just a thought.
They could have either shopped around for nylon colors and then had it laminated to neoprene, or they could have played around with dying nylon themselves and then gotten it laminated once they achieved the color they liked.
Our problem here as fans is we don't have the massive fabric budget they had for the prequels. Otherwise if I had a boat load of money I could dye my own nylon and get it laminated to neoprene. I remember researching it a while back and it was going to be really expensive to do a small run... but I was really thinking about it. And now that I have a pantone match, I should probably look up those old e-mails to see what the place I had found was quoting me... it was so long ago.
Last edited by Kay_Dee; Apr 1, 2009 at 12:11 AM.
I have the same problem getting correct regimental wool colours for Napoleonic uniforms. I have to order at least 60 metres in one colour!
How many metres was a small run of the lycra covered neoprene? Was the lycra laminated to the neoprene in a continuous length?
Thanks for all the advice
We each got 5 yards of the fabric (We're on this side of the pond... ) But I'm thinking there were 10 or 12 people on the run? So 50 or 60 yards was done in that first batch. It was all done commercially and I believe it was all one continuous length or maybe cut into 2 parts for shipment. One company dyed the lycra and then shipped it to another company to laminate it to the the neoprene.
I'm 'dyeing' to get going on my Zam! I just want to get the colour right. Hopefully my samples will arrrive today.
Is it still acceptable to order the number four neoprene from Custom House?
That one is pretty close IMHO. The real difference is the sheen, which that one doesn't have, but the color is darn near spot on. It really just depends on how "screen" accurate you want to be... I've seen costumes done with that fabric that were absolutely awesome.
I'm more concerned about color than sheen, personally. I think that's the track I'm going to go after seeing how awesome the costumes made of it come out. Thanks!