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Neoprene under suit-second batch?

  1. #101

    Re: Neoprene under suit-second batch?

    Sorry to hear that too ZIA... I hope you can pass these days as good as you can...

    Off course, you can completely FORGET about the fabrics by now... off course, there is no rush at all (at least for me...), and you must be where you must !!!

    Just one question... when you can see it:

    I have read about the other possibility with NO NEOPRENE... but my question is... will you make the run with the original tri-cot (lycra, neoprene, nylon) material ??? Because I would really want/need/desire that way... I really prefer it the most accurate as possible... and I really like the idea of having it made of NEOPRENE...

    Please let me know, cause I would really like to know about this , I hope you can make it .

    Ben.

  2. #102

    Re: Neoprene under suit-second batch?

    I just called, and it seems like it has double fabric has laminated well. We will have to wait for it to cure more and they said they will ship it out to me on Monday.

    I know that the book says "Her costume, a combination of armor, leather and Neoprene, required much planning and discussion to guarantee the fusion of all components into one figure-hugging outfit." ... "The basic body suit was made in a dyed Neoprene-type fabric..."

    But, after much research, and the pics below, you will see, the neoprene causes the tricot material to be too bulky. Unfortunately, neoprene will not slide across a sewing plate without stopping, that is why it is backed with nylon. Double fabric will be thinner to gaurantee more figure-hugging and should come with a more accurate look. (When I recieve the double fabric, I will also do a welt seam test and a fold at the arm test to see how it behaves next week, and take more pics.)

    Therefore, if 1) Neoprene is too thick in comparison, causes that many sewing problems (at the knee parts of the pants, the welt seams intersect with 4 layers of tri-cot material=12 layers=needle breakage). 2) Neoprene can cause heat exhaustion. 3) Neoprene doesn't have as accurate "folds" in the arms. Then, despite what the book says using neoprene, I am not going to do that run alongside the double fabric. If double fabric proves to be too thin, then I will only do the neoprene run. It's eventually one run or the other, I really don't want to do both. I will take pictures for comparison once I get the double fabric.

    Color comparisons of Book and first run tricot dyed lycra:

    ColorComparisons (for some reason, people can't see this in mozilla)

    Tricot fabric comparison to actual FIDM Zam:
    Last edited by Zam I Am; Oct 6, 2006 at 2:55 PM. Reason: spacing

  3. #103
    Admin Staff MaulMaus's Avatar
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    Re: Neoprene under suit-second batch?

    IMHO I think they did use a thin neoprene, probably thinner than what we used in the first run. Regardless, if we can make a run of the fabric w/o using the neoprene (double thickness or whatever) I think we should do it if for only the practical reasons you mentioned above: 1) sewing 2) heat exhaustion!

    The other remark I would make is that Leanna's suit was custom made to fit her and fit her rather tightly. Perhaps she was even smaller than the mannequins they used at the FIDM exhibit because the costume was fitting on the mannequin VERY tightly everywhere ... and I think that is the main difference you're seeing in the pics regarding the sleeve folding.

  4. #104

    Re: Neoprene under suit-second batch?

    When I talked it over with the neoprene company, they said I couldn't get smaller than the type of neoprene that I was getting. If so, I would have already used it. Unless, they have a special manufacturer overseas -Japan? or Thailand? or? That has the ability to have a neoprene and have a smooth side that would go over a sewing plate without stopping. Neoprene is usually material used in diving suits and to keep things warm. What really stumps me is the nemoidian guard seems to be neoprene like material, much like zam's, but maybe thinner than the tricot material.

    I am pretty sure about the folds. Even though my seamstress didn't sew my pants as form-fitting, the crop top was tight on me. Tricot material will not fold like FIDM zam's suit at the elbow pit.

  5. #105

    Re: Neoprene under suit-second batch?

    Well, thanks for your answer...

    It's a pity that the company you work with cannot get a thinner neoprene... I have seen to many surf equipment, jackets, etc.. that use a 1mm. neoprene... which I think would be more than perfect for Zam Wesell...

    For example, you can take a look to this:

    http://www.pro-limit.com/displayitem...p?item_id=3321

    Constructed from 1mm G-Rex Neoprene with a durable outer nylon coating.

    That is a 2 coat, VERY VERY THIN... and think that can be the "solution" or the way to look (well, if possible off course !!! ).

  6. #106

    Re: Neoprene under suit-second batch?

    .5 mm neoprene is what I have, the tricot makes it 1.5 mm overall, because of the lycra that has to be dyed, and the nylon backing. Heat dyed neoprene with only their colors is the problem, otherwise, I would have already gone with another company. Custom coloring is my biggest problem. They won't customize the color and, it is lycra on the outside according to ALL sources

  7. #107

    Re: Neoprene under suit-second batch?

    I see... well, 1.5mm. is not as thick as I thought it was...

    In any case, let's wait to get some more news from you and off course, still interested.


  8. #108
    Admin Staff MaulMaus's Avatar
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    Re: Neoprene under suit-second batch?

    I dunno... maybe it is just much thinner neoprene - though I still think the fit is different on the mannequin than on you. Besides, who knows what resources Trisha Biggar and Lucasfilms has... that and just a tad more $$$ to spend on such things eh?

  9. #109

    Re: Neoprene under suit-second batch?

    If you haven't read my website on the research of this, link Go here and read up again. As you can see, 1.5-2.0mm overall is not super as duper thick like some swimming gear, but enough to still cause tons of fustration and sewing problems and folding differences and heat exhaustion. That is why I am inclined to only do one run. What looks the best, and is the safest route, and easiest to sew, is what I am aiming for. I am sure they probably spent a great deal on this. She had at least 5 costumes I think. At least, I know that she had at least 5 castings of her gauntlets, and depending on how many shoots they did with her, they had a different one every shoot. (That's what she said in my second movie clip link.)

    They probably had some heat sublimation dyed material with a special coated smoother neoprene. Less durability, because of the fabric adhesiveness might not have been as strong, due to the dying temperature breaking down glue bonds. But I can't do that because you run the risk of bleeding fabric as well. They had the money to do this of course. And, I can't just pull the "Hi, I am from lucas film, do this for me." The neoprene companies who do this also will only dye colors that they have stock of, not a custom color unless if I could whip out my ever so not handy Uncle Lucas card. My guess is they went with heat sublimation dyed lycra on neoprene from some some foreign country, and they could afford to cause they were spending lots on several costumes for her. Bleeding wouldn't have been an issue. They could just go through a costume change, if she caused the fabric to bleed because of a major sweat etc. Most of you all want to wear this for events and not bleed, and have the durability. And, you can't afford several zam costumes per event. That's why we can't go the same route. It's either tricot fabric or double fabric, and not heat sublimation neoprene.
    Last edited by Zam I Am; Oct 7, 2006 at 3:35 PM.

  10. #110
    JDFett's Avatar
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    Re: Neoprene under suit-second batch?

    hey yvonne,

    just catching up on the thread...been awol for a bit...if the double thickness material works out, I think i would go that route too...that way i can sew it on my own with my standard machine. keep me posted! if you dont mind could you use my normal email...

    sithlord7768@msn.com

    i dont get on TDH much with all my other projects in the works(biker scout, 501st clone)

    got cash set aside for the material and the greeblies...keep me posted and thanks a bunch...sorry to hear about your friends too.

  11. #111

    Re: Neoprene under suit-second batch?

    JDFett said: View Post
    hey yvonne,

    just catching up on the thread...been awol for a bit...if the double thickness material works out, I think i would go that route too...that way i can sew it on my own with my standard machine. keep me posted! if you dont mind could you use my normal email...

    sithlord7768@msn.com

    i dont get on TDH much with all my other projects in the works(biker scout, 501st clone)

    got cash set aside for the material and the greeblies...keep me posted and thanks a bunch...sorry to hear about your friends too.
    Sorry, but I don't have time to send all those personal emails, you can subscribe to the thread to keep yourself posted or bookmark the thread to check. It's unrealistic for me to have to update 18+ people.

  12. #112
    Admin Staff MaulMaus's Avatar
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    Re: Neoprene under suit-second batch?

    Hope I'm not taking this too far off topic... If they dyed the costume the way you said above... and the colors bled through sweating, use and age - would that explain why the FIDM costume was so different in color than say the promotional pics we have of the costume? I know I was really surprised at how "light" the bodysuit was at FIDM.

    Yeah... we gotta take things like durability into account

  13. #113

    Re: Neoprene under suit-second batch?

    Could very well be. We all know that there is color correction anytime there are promotional pics though, and in the movies, there is always a lighting and color enhancement project directors. The costume when it hit FIDM was my guess ~around 3 1/2 yrs old. Cause if AOTC came out in 2003, and it takes at least a year before final production, then, I'd say costumes were made prolly before 2002. So many variables.

  14. #114
    JDFett's Avatar
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    Re: Neoprene under suit-second batch?

    its always been my philosophy..right or wrong...to go with the color that people expect to see...most of the colors ive seen in the zams, although probably accurate in real lighting...look way too fuscia. In the lighting in the movie and the only time she is seen on screen it takes on a much darker appearance. JMO

    and ZIA...thats fine ill just add TDH to my must contantly check list...among the other trillion things i too have goin.

  15. #115

    Re: Neoprene under suit-second batch?

    There are 100000's of shades... to say "to go with the color that people expect to see" that's like searching for a needle in a haystack and not knowing which barn the haystack is in. We have already settled on color. Pantone 5135u. It's in the dressing the galaxy book. On screen, it's darker because her shots are done with evening lights. Remember, my lycra changes color with different lighting too. link The lycra is a tint more blueish than the cardboard cut out, but barely noticable. So my color definately isn't more Fushia. It varies from orchid, to lilac to fushia in different lighting because of the sheen of the material. When people are trying to pinpoint a "color" is impossible, unless we had an actual fabric swatch in hand.
    Last edited by Zam I Am; Oct 9, 2006 at 11:00 AM.

  16. #116

    Re: Neoprene under suit-second batch?

    Test didn't go as well for the double fabric, but that was because he used a different process of lamination, because his main machine was down. It cured and it attatched, but the fabric doesn't recover after it stretches, and has a weird webbing. He said that he's going to do another lamination when the main machine is back up and do the heat bonding and I will call back on Wednesday. The dying company came up with the correct color as last time, so everything is good on that.

  17. #117
    JDFett's Avatar
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    Re: Neoprene under suit-second batch?

    well good to hear it looks darker in the darker light settings...in the movie her stuff almost has a burgandy look to it IMO..im not trying to change your color ZIA...just having an opinion...and the haystack really isnt that big...anyone who has seen the movie and has a vision of what they saw. it cant fluctuate that much in color, unless you count the color blind folks in the audience.

  18. #118

    Re: Neoprene under suit-second batch?

    Ok, well, we know it's in the purple barn between Red and blue. But the haystack is HUGE. There are TONS of grades of purple. Yes it can fluctuate that much and I am NOT counting the color blind folks. Have you ever looked at a color pigment gradient chart? NOTHING IS STANDARD. I type up 5135 it's green on one program and another program, it's something else. People in the fabric industry have somewhat of a pantone book, but everyone has their own set of standards. Like Behr paint vs Duron paint. When you add a material like lycra, it's texture causes something totally different to happen. There are different shades, from light to dark (just from light direction) and from red to blue with touches of white or black pigments in the dye. It's a pretty flippin huge haystack. Go google burgundy, lilac, orchid, and fushia swatches you'll see what I mean. Then tell me if your monitor is set to factory settings. You will see how much it can fluctuate that much in color. Trying to find the color that I already have with several manufacturers and the dying company (the first run), was like trying to describe to a color blind person what purple looks like. Thank Gawd for DCB and how we narrowed it somewhat down in the first place.
    Last edited by Zam I Am; Oct 9, 2006 at 11:17 PM.

  19. #119
    JDFett's Avatar
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    Re: Neoprene under suit-second batch?

    very true and in the industry i agree...you cant even get two cans of white that match, but i was talking an average fan that has seen the movie expects a color that resembles what was on screen, even though it is a color that was altered by lighting. in other words if you wear a zam that is too light and too barney purple then a fan may not agree with what he sees, unless of course you spend the whole time hiding in the shadows and hope noone with a flash takes your picture..

  20. #120

    Re: Neoprene under suit-second batch?

    Avg fan? That's indefinable. Each person isn't avg. I had cataracts up until last year which affects vision hues with a yellowing effect. Each piece of material on her outfit is a different purple shade. We know the suit underneath it's not electric violet, or barney purple, but like I said, huge haystack within even the fushia, lilac, orchid, burgundy color range. Every shot that I have of FIDM from different people and from MOM and production photos range in color. Different cameras, different angles, different lighting, reflections, time periods, different computer output, color corrections. That's not even including the numerous costumes used. Believe me, it's a pretty huge haystack. With the first run, I sent at least 6 swatches to all the people involved so that they could decide on color. Most of them told me "go with what I think, or what DCB thinks because he saw it at MOM" Cause the gradient was different but they couldn't figure it out. Everything seemed too close.Link Hence, I don't know that there was an avg. thinking. And going on your opinion, if most zams that you see are too fushia, then they too~ as avg fans must've believed it was a fushia of some sort~ to go as far as producing a costume with that color.

  21. #121
    JDFett's Avatar
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    Re: Neoprene under suit-second batch?

    okay...well in simple terms...all i was illustrating was the actual color of the zam costume...which by the way is what I would want anyway...is way to light compared to what is seen on screen. folks that have only seen the movie and are not so over the top into things as some of us can be would have an imediate reaction of.."if that is supposed to be that bounty hunter from episode 2 then that is the way wrong color"...

    like i said...im all for the color choice you have decided on...if i wasnt i wouldnt even request to be on the fabric list...it was just an observation. I know it was my first reaction until i researched things too and know what the color really is.

    thanks for all the hard work that you have done on researching this to get it right BTW

  22. #122

    Re: Neoprene under suit-second batch?

    Moving the color comments to this thread to have it discussed there...
    http://www.thedentedhelmet.com/showthread.php?t=10631

    Because I want the second run thread to stay on topic.

  23. #123

    Re: Neoprene under suit-second batch?

    Sigh, Lamination didn't go well. He had 1 yard of lycra to deal with on the second trial and he put it through the machine by holding it, not using the pressure roller (there wasnt enough materialto put it through.) So, the whole thing just wrinkled up. I just lost $40 or more bucks worth of material. He said he didn't have enough yardage to run it through without wrinkles for a prototype. He said it would've worked if he did have a 10 yrd sample. Right, like that's going to happen. I will decide tomorrow what I should do.
    Last edited by Zam I Am; Oct 11, 2006 at 7:06 PM.

  24. #124
    Admin Staff MaulMaus's Avatar
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    Re: Neoprene under suit-second batch?

    So what do you need for the sample? A 10yd sample of plain lycra? If you can get the material - Everyone on the list could all paypal you a percentage. Or you tack on the price to the material itself if the Paypal is a hassle. No reason you should pay for it all!

  25. #125
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    Re: Neoprene under suit-second batch?

    i agree

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