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  1. Member Since
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    May 20, 2003, 8:41 AM - Re: Leather Parts List-Please VOTE on vest leather... #26

    Considering what I have viewed on pictures Dallas took at the MOM display I am going to say 1.

    Now if everyone would be so kind as to go and look at the MOM pic DSC04219 and DSC04218 and tell me what you in the opening of the vest where it is laced thoughter? The material I am speaking of is similar in color to the cumberbun belt area and appears the same material, but all this runs up under the vest about 3/4 of the vest height. I am really woundering what that is or could be attached to.
  2. Admin Staff MaulMaus's Avatar
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    May 20, 2003, 12:05 PM - Re: Leather Parts List-Please VOTE on vest leather... #27

    It's kind of hard to tell the diffference in the pics... but I think I'd lean in the direction of 1. The grain looks more like the vest pics I've seen... Is it the same in pic 2? I would assume that #1 would be easier to work with, being thinner, which would move my vote in that direction.

    Could you let us know the leather source?
  3. Zam I Am's Avatar
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    May 20, 2003, 1:05 PM - Re: Leather Parts List-Please VOTE on vest leather... #28

    The issues of vinyl vs. leather for the vest will give us several things to be concerned about. The first pic is thinner leather, and very very flexible, but at the same time I would think it is easy to rip with all those eyelets running down the side. The upper shoulder flaps remind me of pic 2 leather although, it would be harder to sew. You would have to ask a leather person with a heavy duty machine to sew it all together.
    Vinyl, more durable, cheaper and (I haven't gotten a sample yet) but last time, running through JoAnn's, vinyl is pretty darn close in respect to "look".

    This is the website of the leather company.
    http://www.ebingerleather.com/eblchome.htm
  4. Admin Staff MaulMaus's Avatar
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    May 20, 2003, 5:41 PM - Re: Leather Parts List-Please VOTE on vest leather... #29

    Interesting points - They might have used two different types/thicknesses of leather on the vest - nothing says they didn't. One for the body and one for the flaps? Or the flaps may have had some filing put into them.

    IMHO - vinyl would be a lot hotter than leather, which will be toasty enough. I'm not an expert by any means, but I should think the color would rub and wear off the vinyl much easier if it is "painted" on.

    Looking at the standup and other pics - It looks to me like those areas are folded under, essentially making a double layer for the eyelet to hold onto, making it less likely to tear through.

    Thanks for the link!
  5. Zam I Am's Avatar
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    May 20, 2003, 6:10 PM - Re: Leather Parts List-Please VOTE on vest leather... #30

    I don't think that they used two different thicknesses for the flaps vs. the main vest part, I just meant that it looked thick enuff in the flaps that they prob used the thicker stuff. The vest itself looks pretty thick imho. esp. the flaps... Of course they had shoulder pads in there too, that's a given. but, the thin stuff is pretty thin. Even on one side, it seams as if it would tear easy on an eyelet, even though it's obviously two pieces one on top plus the lined leather too. The thin stuff stretches twice as much as the thicker stuff, if that helps any.

    Rag- it's just another leather piece that folds over to conceal the "black" leotard. That's what the seamstress said.

    Edit** Actually, the lambskin only stretches when pulled one direction. AND it's definately lambskin!!! I did a ratio on the pic04286, the texture and the Thinness are perfect! When I folded the white chapsides tight, it was way too thick on the edge of the seam. And, it's a tad more pourous than the chapsides to "Catch" the paint. I will fold the two and post a pic...
  6. Zam I Am's Avatar
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    May 20, 2003, 9:27 PM - Re: Leather Parts List-Please VOTE on vest leather... #31

    ok here goes... the choice is.... <font size ="5"> #1

    compare to this pic...

    It has to be the thinner lambskin leather You guys picked right!!! I haven't ordered from them yet, but it is product number LMBITAL100 white lamb &#36;3.35 per square foot. I haven't had time to run to the fabric store and get some vinyl to compare it to for pricing.
  7. Zam I Am's Avatar
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    Jun 14, 2003, 12:55 PM - Re: Leather Parts List-Please VOTE on vest leather... #32

    After much deliberation, Dallas and I measured the skirt thickness, and the brim thick ness and it is not as thick as I stated before. It's a lot thinner and is 4-5 oz weight. That equals a 0.1" thickness. Sorry for all the people who have started on the skirt. Ugh, I hate losing money. I hope that you havnt made the same mistakes I have.
  8. MonCal's Avatar
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    Jun 18, 2003, 12:19 PM - Re: Leather Parts List-Vest leather chosen! #33

    Are you sure it's only 4-5 oz.?
    4 oz. is 1/16" thick...correct?

    That would mean it's only as thick as the laces which look thinner and a lace less than 1/16" doesn't seem very strong.
  9. Zam I Am's Avatar
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    Jun 18, 2003, 12:31 PM - Re: Leather Parts List-Vest leather chosen! #34

    Yep, 4-5 oz skirt, the laces are 1- 1 1/2 oz. They are strong enuff cause it's 1/4 in cut laces. Use some calipers and measure the skirt thickness off of the cardboard cut out.
  10. MonCal's Avatar
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    Jun 18, 2003, 12:37 PM - Re: Leather Parts List-Vest leather chosen! #35

    O.K.,
    I was just curious because they look thicker but I realize you've been bugging your eyes out getting it right.
  11. Zam I Am's Avatar
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    Jun 18, 2003, 1:01 PM - Re: Leather Parts List-Vest leather chosen! #36


    MonCal wrote:

    O.K.,
    I was just curious because they look thicker but I realize you've been bugging your eyes out getting it right.
    Hey, not only that, but i wasted close to 200.00 cutting up the wrong leather hides. I started on 9-10, then went to 7-8. man, what an expensive mistake.
  12. MonCal's Avatar
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    Jun 18, 2003, 11:42 PM - Re: Leather Parts List-Vest leather chosen! #37


    Zam I Am wrote:

    Hey, not only that, but i wasted close to 200.00 cutting up the wrong leather hides. I started on 9-10, then went to 7-8. man, what an expensive mistake.
    Wow! Sorry to hear that! So you're on your third hide for the skirt?

    I'll take your word for it then
  13. MonCal's Avatar
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    Jun 20, 2003, 11:39 AM - Re: Leather Parts List-Vest leather chosen! #38

    Oh, please forgive me for this.....(ducks behind monitor)
    :o
    I am still confused on some dimensions:
    this is pic #4507 cropped

    If measurement A = 9mm which is just under 3/8" then
    measurement "B" would be 3/16"
    measurement "C" would be 1/8" which is 8 oz. leather.
    4 oz. (1/16") would be barely thicker than that lace (should've dimensioned that also)

  14. Zam I Am's Avatar
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    Jun 20, 2003, 3:11 PM - Re: Leather Parts List-Vest leather chosen! #39

    oK, then my measurement on the beads might be off. I took all my measurments off of the stand up. The square should be 2 inches tall.

    When I get home, I will scan the thicknesses in oz. by the tandy catalog. I think 1-1/2 oz lace is actually closer to 1/32" thickness. The width should be around 1/4" or a little less. I know the slots are 1/4" tall. So lace could be 3/16" wide...
    When I took the caliper width. approximately .12 of an inch is what I got for the thickness of the leather on the cut out. 1/8" is .125 of an inch. So, when I measured the thickness of my 4 oz. leather, I got .11 of an inch. That's where I came up with my measurements. Mebbe 5-6 oz? I gotta check the tandy measurements on the oz.= thickness thing again.

    EDIT***
    Ok, for some reason whoever measured and put the tag on my holster leather at the tandy store marked it as 4-5 oz, when really it is closer to 7-8 oz. Both my holster leather and skirt leather measure around .11 of an inch. So, I guess it's a good thing that I was tricked? Actually, no wonder my skirt lace didn't fit the hole the first time. UGH!!!! Ok I am massively messed up. So, Yeah, skirt leather is 7-8 oz. Sorry yall. I am really perturbed, I cut all that lace cause something was mislabeled. Grrr...
    Well my 1 oz leather (for the lace) is .045 of an inch. If that helps any. 1/32" =.03125" and 1/16" equals.0625" so it will fit the holes I punched out just fine. Good! then my skirt leather isn't wrong. whew! And the hole puncher and all the work i did is totally correct on the skirt.

    <font color="#FF00CC">Final word= skirt leather for squares is 1/8" or 7-8 oz. leather. FORGET what I said earlier. Moncal thanks for correcting us.
  15. MonCal's Avatar
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    Jun 21, 2003, 11:53 PM - Re: Leather Parts List-Vest leather chosen! #40


    Zam I Am wrote:

    FORGET what I said earlier. Moncal thanks for correcting us.
    Sure..I hated to bring it out like that. I was just confused Hopefully it saved you some extra work if you hadn't started over (again).

    On another note, I have gone to 6 leather shops between Ft. Collins and Denver in the past few days trying to find some predyed purple pig. I finally found one piece of pig that's the correct color for the veil and will probably work for the shins if there is enough. Anyway, one lady (very nice and helpful) recommended "plonge" (plonjay) for the vest, cumberbun. She gave me a white sample and it looks a lot like lambskin but is a much higher grade leather and is cow hide. It's really a nice leather. She said lambskin and pigskin will tear extremely easily and she has to repair 5 or 6 garments per week for people made from pig or lamb. It's not something Tandy has and many leather shops don't carry it. She gets it from a company called "Hide & Leather House" out of California. I guess it's fairly pricey but she said I won't have to worry about it. I think she said a 24 sq. ft piece would be approx. &#36;180.00. I'll probably go ahead and get it from her. I may even use the same material and make my own gloves.
    Has anyone seen this stuff or heard of it?
    FWIW: She is finishing a custom Rocketeer leather jacket for a costumer...it was very nice.
  16. Zam I Am's Avatar
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    Jun 22, 2003, 9:14 AM - Re: Leather Parts List-Vest leather chosen! #41

    Seriously, thanks Moncal! You just saved my hide wocka wocka! Good point on the lambskin, but is the plonge too thick? I would think the cowhides would be a bit too thick. White chapsides are cow-in the picture above. And, they are nice, but a bit too thick especially for the flaps on the vest. I wouldn't mind Plounging in, (not easy being cheesy) but lmk if she is willing to send me a swatch. So, I can compare to the lambskin and white chapsides. Or, we could do a leather swatch swap. LMK

    Oh, also 180/24 is losta cash =&#36;7.50 ! WOW the chapsides at ebinger brother's is 2.35 a sq foot and lambskin is 3.35 a sq. foot. Not to mention, you only need maybe 12 square feet to do a vest methinks. 24 is way too large.
  17. MonCal's Avatar
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    Jun 22, 2003, 12:34 PM - Re: Leather Parts List- don't be mistaken on your oz's #42

    I have a couple little pieces. We could do a swatch swap
    It seems like a good thickness to me. I know the price is high and she said 24 sq. ft. is a large estimate because I'd have to order one hide. She said she could ask for a small hide or whatever square footage we need. It'd work for the cumberbun as well. I am thinking of using it to make gloves also along with the shoe uppers and some of the lacing. If I can get it in a light grey (forgot to ask).

    How is the pattern for the vest working out? Has there been some progress in that department?

    Edit: Zam I Am, I'm going to drop a piece of the Plonge in the mail for ya.
  18. Zam I Am's Avatar
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    Jun 26, 2003, 11:32 PM - Re: Leather Parts List- don't be mistaken on your oz's #43

    Wow, the plonge is like way better than the lambskin. Lots more durable. woohoo! Lamskin is really stretchy comparitively too.
    Ok, money is a factor though, let's price shop around. But definately great stuff! Moncal is the man!
    Been a slacker, will mail my lamb/chapsides swatches tomorrow morning.

    Edit** Called ebinger brothers today 6/27 on the plonge it's &#36;4.25 per sq. feet they sell it at a 18-21ft per hide. Which actually, since our vest are lined with leather too, we would need the larger of the hides. Oh, i have yet to check out tandy too.Moncal and everyone else--forget what I said about vest requirement on square footage, Let me verify with my seamstress before I get quoted as to how much footage we need.
  19. MonCal's Avatar
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    Jun 27, 2003, 8:51 PM - Re: Leather Parts List- don't be mistaken on your oz's #44

    &#36;4.25?
    That's great...like half the price. What would the total be with shipping? I'll check one other place here that I know can get it and see what their price is.
    When the lady first told me to consider plonge, I was like " yeah whatever....zam I am already figured it out I'm not here to ask that." But when she showed it to me I was convinced. It's really nice leather!!
  20. Zam I Am's Avatar
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    Jun 27, 2003, 9:27 PM - Re: Leather Parts List- don't be mistaken on your oz's #45

    Seriously, don't ever think that I have anything 100% correct (cept for the soles of the shoes-- and even that was by chance... I am NOT an expert on leather. Oh, I was talking to ebinger brothers, and he said that lambskin can be just as tough as plonge, it just depends on the hide you purchase. Every animal is different, unfortunately, it's not like vinyl, where there is equal consistancy. Even negative ease (how much the fabric/skin stretches) is different per animal, so, when you sew the stuff, you really have to be careful, how you lay the pattern out. It could render the person immovable. Like wearing jeans vs. wearing stretchy swimwear. Now, the sample of lambskin I have is very stretchable but only in one direction. Unfortunately, anything that is like 1 oz, which we have (plonge and lambskin both) will probably have the very very similar tear factors. (this is what the guy told me). So, our safety net is that our vest is lined on both sides with leather. Hopefully that will minimize the tear factor. ie, 2 oz instead of just 1 oz.

    Edit** I didn't goto tandy today, because the owner wasnt there. Will try again next week.
  21. Zam I Am's Avatar
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    Jul 1, 2003, 1:06 PM - Re: Leather Parts List- don't be mistaken on your oz's #46

    Plonge leather is from a Japanese cow. The gentleman I talked to at ebinger, said that if he could, he would want to be reincarnated as a kolbi cow. Apparently, the cow is feed grains and beer three times a day and massaged all the time, in order to keep the meat tender. I got my stories mixed a little. I thought they were bathed in beer or sumthing. Anycow, I am going to get a sample of their plonge for the vest and probably airbrush dye or airbrush paint the pigskin suede chamois for the veil/mock hood. That's what it looks like to me from the streaks on the veil in the MOM pics. I probably will be ordering it next week. The pigsuede is 11-14 sq feet (pretty large) but inexpensive comparatively. &#36;2 something a square foot. The plonge I listed before comes 18-21 sq ft. At &#36;4 somthing listed above. Vests should only take at most 9-10 sq. ft. That's a guesstimate. Oh, and this guy told me that plonge is WAY tougher than lambskin. (he's been in the business longer) Tandy doesn't sell plonge.

    Edit**7/5 I just recieved the plonge from ebinger. I must say, it is really nice, but it isn't as thick as Moncal's sample. Almost like it's 3/4 the thickness of moncal's. Will ask them on monday if they have a tad thicker version. Other than that, and the color, it's pretty nice. Moncal's is more gray toned, especially on the suede side. Mine has a creamier look to it. If I had to choose between hides, Moncal's hide sample is a bit better. My sample plonge is almost too thin, like the vest woulndnt be as bulky like it should be. Let me see what they did, they may have tanned it differently and cut it too thin. His plonge actually matches my lambskin sample almost exactly, except for the skin texture of course. Apparently my lamb sample has a more pourous hide and stretches a lot more than Moncal's plonge.
  22. MonCal's Avatar
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    Jul 6, 2003, 9:44 PM - Re: Leather Parts List- vest leather rechosen #47

    Hmm, interesting!
    That might explain the drastic price difference. The leather shop that gave me the samples said they order from a company that only supplies the best, meaning less imperfect hides....just a guess on the price, then again they might just want more money.
  23. Zam I Am's Avatar
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    Jul 6, 2003, 11:40 PM - Re: Leather Parts List- vest leather rechosen #48

    I don't think that the hide was imperfect, just not quite as thick as yours. I will send you a sample of what I got. Zam I Aint liked my plonge better. But I dunno~ could just be preference. I am going to have a cow if we don't get this vest leather nailed soon. Everything is so similar.
    Moncal, doesn't my chapsides look like a thicker version of your plonge? Isnt that weird? I am sure that it's probably the way it was tanned. Will talk to the guy tomorrow. '

    Edit** ok, the plonge that i have is definately the real stuff... drum dyed, etc. But Moncal's sample matches what we need. My plonge is definately too thin. 1 oz rather than 1.5-2 oz. leather like the lambskin and Moncal's plonge. I am thinking, because of the price difference, I might just go with 3 hides of lambskin. To go with his, you would only need like one hide. I sent Moncal his sample. There isn't much difference between the lambskin and his plonge, but &#36;7 somthing a square foot is wow expensive. So, I am checking one more place, to see if they can match up to that type of leather. I didn't check seigle yet. I guess I should email them. But, if anyone wants to get samples, this leather is definately 1.5-2 oz white leather, cow hide preferable.
  24. Zam I Am's Avatar
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    Jul 14, 2003, 11:58 PM - Re: Leather Parts List- vest leather rechosen #49

    check this out, I just sent an email, hope they reply with a swatch, and hope this is close, it said 2 oz. in the description.
    http://www.justleather.com/remnants/rem0655.jpg
  25. Zam I Am's Avatar
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    Jul 22, 2003, 1:59 PM - Re: Leather Parts List- vest leather rechosen #50

    Quote:Oh, also 180/24 is losta cash =&#36;7.50 ! WOW the chapsides at ebinger brother's is 2.35 a sq foot and lambskin is 3.35 a sq. foot. Not to mention, you only need maybe 12 square feet to do a vest methinks. 24 is way too large.
    Sorry about that Moncal, obviously, I didn't count all the facing pieces of the vest.

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