Rub-N-Buff

I used a crome paint that looks pretty good once it's clear coated. But, I'm seeing all these pictures of people's stuff with rub n' buff, and they blow my paint job away. So, I though I may give it a shot.

You can get it at Michaels arts & craft stores near the glue & paint section.

If you can't find it at Michael's, try some online places...
http://www.in2art.com/product/79
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/fimo/rubnbuffpolish.html
http://stencilease.com/rubnbuff.htm

So it's just like regular paint, except you "rub and buff?" Do I still need to primer and all that? I really just don't know what this stuff is.

I went to the links (thanks Sith_Camaro) and they say it's in a tube. How much did you use?

A little goes a LONG way. No primer is needed. It's basically just a carnuba car wax. Just wax on, and (not really) wax off!

Wow! Sounds cool! Unfortunately, I've got a lot of sanding to do now. I gotta get rid of all that paint and clear coat! Aaaarrrgh!

What do you guys usally use, Pewter or Silver Leaf?

Silver leaf is what was used on the actual costume. Just use some sandpaper and scratch up the surface before you put the RNB on. This will give it a true aluminum look.

Everything you ever wanted to know about Rub and Buff:
http://tdh.prop-planet.com/viewtopic...c=1640&forum=4

LOL...there's the old thread again!

Thank you Mr. Fettish!

I'm no Jango man, but I always thought you guys meant Rub n Buff was a black paint used to weather the armor. :o Glad I didn't try to "weather" my Boba armor with it!

Blastech wrote:
I'm no Jango man, but I always thought you guys meant Rub n Buff was a black paint used to weather the armor. :o Glad I didn't try to "weather" my Boba armor with it!

Dude I thought the EXACT same thing hahaha. (great minds think alike)

They DO also make a black RNB, so you can still weather the Boba armor with it, if you want!

Man, I've looked at every Michael's in town, and they're all sold out of the Silver Leaf! I clicked the links to buy on-line, but one has a shipping cost of something like $14, and the other two have a minimum order of $25. Will I actually need $25 worth of this stuff? That's at least like 6 tubes! MY KINGDOM FOR SOME RUB AND BUFF!!!!!!

I picked up 2 tubes and almost went through 1 of them. A little bit of that stuff goes a long way

1 tube ALREADY?! You're using too much. I've still got about a half tube left, and I've painted about 2 costumes worth with it!

im wondering if the rub and buff needs some kind of clear coat...i've tried to clear coat but somehow it gives it a more greyish color instead of the original chrome...maybe im doing something wrong...please help?..

Clear coat isn't the best thing to try to use on it. it's a wax. You really can't coat a wax well with anything. When I tried it on my helmet, it beaded up and ran down the helmet.
If you end up getting a clear coat on an RNB surface well, then you didn't put a good coat of RNB on it.
It's basically a car wax. If you wax a car, and get it wet or anything, it'll bead up.
You have 1 of 2 options: use the RNB without a clear coat. If any of it rubs off enough to where you can see the surface beneath, just put another coat of RNB over the area. OR, you can skip using RNB, and use brush n leaf. It's the exact same thing, except in paint form. Or, you can do like I did, cover it with BNL, then use a coat of RNB, just for the heck of it. If it rubs off enough, it'll only show the silver painted surface beneath.

Here's where I finally ordered my R&B from.

http://www.dickblick.com/zz271/02/pr...m=0&ig_id=2758

They have reasonable prices, no minimum order, and the shipping cost isn't crazy expensive. YAY!!!!

Oh yeah, hey sith_camaro, my armor is already painted in a chrome color. I thought I would lightly sand it, but not enough to take it off completely, then put the rub and buff on. That way I'll have the chrome under the R&B if it rubs off. Do you think that'll work?

Oookay, let's edit this ONE more time! What did you use to apply, then buff it with?

My fingers! Don't be afraid to get dirty!

sith_camaro wrote:
1 tube ALREADY?! You're using too much. I've still got about a half tube left, and I've painted about 2 costumes worth with it!

Ya, I went a little nuts w/ the stuff. But my dog looked so cool after I buffed her

(JK Mirax)

sith_camaro wrote:
My fingers! Don't be afraid to get dirty!

You used your fingers to buff?

I used my palm to buff my helmet

seriously!

You had to go there mgr( i say as i shake my head)didn't you!

hehehehe

LOL Mgr! I used a dust rag to apply it to my gauntlets and jet pack just so I wouldn't get my hands as dirty but the first time I used it on my R2 Dome I used my fingers. I actually had no problem clear coating my jet pack. I used the silver and the black on the jet pack and none of it beaded up and you guys saw how dirty that thing looked. I didn't want to have that stuff rubbing off on the rest of my costume.

mgr wrote:
I used my palm to buff my helmet

seriously!

Man, that was great.

BTW,
I clearcoated my armor also...

mgr wrote:
I used my palm to buff my helmet

seriously!
.......................
Ya, I went a little nuts w/ the stuff. But my dog looked so cool after I buffed her

AAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAAAA!!!!! *wiping away a tear of laughter* mgr, you KILL me!

What the heck? I've put it on my knee armor, and it's not as shiney, but it's even. Then, I put it on my thigh armor and it's nice and shiney, but looks really messy and uneven. What the heck is going on?!?!?!

This may sound weird but, How are you Rubbing and well buffing? Are you using a rag or towel or are you using the palm of your hand? to buff out the wax?

Did you let it sit longer on one piece than the other before buffing?
That will have an effect on it.
Maybe try buffing on a scrap peice or let your significant other have a wack at it. Sometimes it takes a female touch

Are they both made from the same material? RNB isn't all that shiny on sintra, but it works REAL well with resin/fiberglass.

sith_camaro wrote:
Are they both made from the same material? RNB isn't all that shiny on sintra, but it works REAL well with resin/fiberglass.

That sounds like the problem...Have you tried Primer first (a good thick layer) then applying ?

I tried several methods. First, I tried it over the chrome paint, but it came out looking awful. So, I tried it on just sintra ... better, but not great. So, I tried it on my knee armor, which just had primer, and bingo. Success. It wasn't as shiney as I had seen in the photos here, but it looked pretty good ... nice and even anyway. So, I began sanding the rest of my armor back down to the primer. I started Rub N' Buffing the thigh armor, and again, it came out uneven, but much more shiney than my knees (even with the uneven look, my wife says it looks better than the knees). I didn't do anything differently than with my knee armor. The only explaination I can think of is that the thigh armor is so much larger, it's more difficult to get even coverage. I'm using my finger to apply it. Usually it dries so fast, I end up buffing with my finger as well. I have buffed with both my palm and a soft rag, but it doesn't seem to make a difference either way. So, I really just can't figure it out. I spread the R&B as thin as possible before buffing, but I seem to be using more than what most people said they used. I can definitely see myself using more than one tube, if not two. So, what technique did you all use? Did you put a big blob of the stuff on and do the entire piece at once, or did you do it in sections - applying only a little at a time? Please help me! I have a rubbing and buffing disability!

Apply it in sections. Don't rush and try to do the whole thing at once.
If you try putting RNB over a surface that has been spray painted with a chroms paint, it will look bad. Almost like it's eating through the paint! If you were to put some brush n leaf on first and then RNB, you'd have no problems.

Come to think of it, I had the same problem w/ my larger pieces, Like Sith said, try doing it in small areas instead of banging out the whole thing at one time.

BTW,
Thanks for the brush and leaf suggestion sithcamero. Do you prime or chrome paint before you use that stuff or just put it right over the sintra?

Nope, just put it right on.
One thing to remember about brush n leaf, You can put RNB OVER it, but you can't put it over RNB. It'll start eating into the wax of the RNB.

Thanks...

Great. So now I get to try to find and purchase Brush & Leaf. Son of a ... Doesn't it leave brush strokes?

Oh yeah, how many bottles, jars, whatever should I get?

Prime it. Buy silver automotive touch up paint. (test it on a scrap to be sure you'll like the color.) Shoot a part and let the paint dry over night. Apply the rub and buff with your finger in small areas at a time, you can do the whole thing but it might not come out well. Then either use the palm of your hand or very soft non-lotioned Puff's tissues or the like. Worked well for me.

Okay, I have no experience with R&B whatsoever. (Maybe I should shut up) But I did read online that it will react to oil, grease, etc. and prevent proper adhesion in that instance. I'm also taking a total guess here, but is the leg armor on your thigh,(a handy spot for polishing leg armor) while the other stuff you held in your hand? Would the heat generated by your leg have any bearing in the finished effect? Maybe I should go hammer on something.

Has anyone tried putting RnB onto aluminum armor? Just wondering how this would work.

I thought the whole point of having aluminum armor was so you didn't have to paint or R&B. Well, it's a wax. I don't know if it would "stick." If I were you, I'd just get some polish.

Anyone got an answer for how many jars of Brush 'n Leaf I'll need?

One should be enough.

Thanks again sith.

There are various Rub N Buff threads, but I have not found a definitive source for the best overall techniques. Can the Rub N Buff Masters please step up and explain the following:

1) On Sintra/ABS, should Rub N Buff be used directly on the material, over primer, or over another type of paint?

2) How finely should the surface be sanded?

3) Clearcoat?

4) Rub n Buff with cloth or hand?

5) When applying, can you estimate the diameter that each application spreads out to (in other words, how much are you using)?

6) (Optional extra credit) If I Rub N Buff my dog, would it pass as a digital pet?

Thanks.

Well, my R&B looks like ****. I've tried it on all diferent surfaces, with and without primer, etc. Maybe I just got a bad batch or something. When I put it on an unsanded primered surface, it's too dull. It looks like metal, but not polished. When I put it on sanded primer or straight sintra, it comes out uneven (shiney in some places and dull in others - just flat out ugly really). I've buffed with a soft rag and my palm, and neither has a different outcome than the other. So, I'd be interested in this too.

Here's my answers based on my experience:

ShocKWavE wrote:
There are various Rub N Buff threads, but I have not found a definitive source for the best overall techniques. Can the Rub N Buff Masters please step up and explain the following:

1) On Sintra/ABS, should Rub N Buff be used directly on the material, over primer, or over another type of paint?

I sanded my armor with 220 grit (sintra) then used krylon sandable primer, wet sanded with 330 grit, spray painted with Krylon dull aluminum, then applied rub-n-buff.

2) How finely should the surface be sanded?

See above answer.

3) Clearcoat?

I used Krylon Matte Finish on my jet pack over the rub n buff with no problem. I've recently experimented with my armor because right now the color is so awesome and it really looks like metal. When compared to the silver on my jet pack, it looks so much better (the jet pack was rub-n-buffed under the finish). SO I took a scrap piece of sintra, painted, rnb, then tried the matte finish and also tried the Krylon clear glaze. The clear glaze did not work well, kinda looked like oil and water. The matte covers fine but I think it detracts from the finish a lot. It goes on fairly smooth so long as you have buffed well but can be just a tad grainy. You can r-n-b over the finish and it is pretty nice but may be a bit grainy in some areas depending on the matte coat.

4) Rub n Buff with cloth or hand?

For my armor, I used my hand to apply then buffed with kleenex

5) When applying, can you estimate the diameter that each application spreads out to (in other words, how much are you using)?

Well, I use about 1/16-1/8 inch ribbons from the tube at a time and start is a spot and spread it out from there. Then just go to the next spot. I found doing 2 coats (buffing between each coat) gives a more even finish- you will see spots that need more coverage so just add it.

6) (Optional extra credit) If I Rub N Buff my dog, would it pass as a digital pet?

Only if you shave it first!

Thanks.

1) On Sintra/ABS, should Rub N Buff be used directly on the material, over primer, or over another type of paint?

Rub and buff is a polish, it should be used over a painted surface. But you can get a very convincing metal look if you lightly sand white abs or any plastic and apply the rub and buff directly to it. You will need to heavily polish it out.

2) How finely should the surface be sanded?

Depends on the texture you want. If your painting and applying, then it should be sanded smooth, primed, etc. If going direct to the plastic I would leave a few swirls in it so it gets that natural aluminum look.

3) Clearcoat?

Clearcoat will keep it from rub off and having to be touched up, but can kill the finish if you not careful. I did not clearcoat mine, others do. Test it on scraps and see what you like.

4) Rub n Buff with cloth or hand?

Ditto what Mirax said, except I used Puffs rather than Kleenex.

5) When applying, can you estimate the diameter that each application spreads out to (in other words, how much are you using)?

Again, ditto Mirax.

6) (Optional extra credit) If I Rub N Buff my dog, would it pass as a digital pet?

If you shave it first, yes.....yes it will.

It's 3 in the morning, work is gonna hurt tomorrow. I just finished my helmet again and finished it up with Rub n Buff. The helmet was pretty much perfect. So what went wrong? As usual for me, the Rub n Buff turned out like #$@%. First, it exposed where I had put masking tape earlier while painting(the previously taped areas are shinier), even after thoroughly cleaning the helmet with dishwashing soap before using it. Second, it just isn't even. I am really upset and should be sleeping rather than be here right now but I just had to vent. I've already had to strip the paint from the helmet several times and finally had it looking really good. It looks good from a distance, but is obviously not the way I want it close up. Well I'm gonna sleep on it. Night.

Hate when that happens.

Good luck at work, dude.

That Fett Hangover is going to be pretty bad, but take solace in the fact that we've all probably been there.

I had a spate of them last week staying up pretty late (1:30am - 2:00am ish) to sew vest and ammo pouch parts by hand, only to be woken up by my gorgeous 3 yr old daughter at 6:00am. She is great, but why can't she be great an hour later?

It is a labour of love and no mistake.

Si

Since reading about it here, I've been experimenting on a few pieces with Rub 'n Buff. Honestly, I have yet to make it look good, so I think I'm just going to give up on using it.

Either I just lack that rub 'n buff touch, or everyone is lying and their pieces look terrible close up. I'm guessing/hoping it's me.

So take heart at least that you're not the only one to have trouble with that damnable stuff.

You wouldn't want you're rub and buff to be that nice and clean.

<image src=http://www.r2ro.com/images/jfhelmet.jpg>

Even this picture shows that not all areas are nice and even.

<image src=http://www.starwars.com/episode-ii/imageattack/2003/03/img/ep2-1a-17825.jpg>

I think I am gonna try the brush n leaf on my ver 2.0.
Has anyone used it?

As I'm not doing a Jango, I usually don't pay a whole lot of attention to Rub 'n Buff. Is it being used to make it shinier?

Modelers have been making their car models polished to a sheen w/ Johnson Floor polish for years. MicroMark has loads of more "high-tech" polish stuff too. www.micromark.com

Don't know if any of this stuff will help you guys out, but thought I'd give it a try.

Good Luck all!

Thanks for the advice and the words. I took a quick look at it this morning with burning eyes and am going to attempt to salvage it in it's current condition through weathering. The tricky part it going to be the parts that I mentioned which were masked off and now show a bit shinier than the rest. It caused straight lines to be visible from the edge of the masking tape, and I am going to have to try to break that up.

SEEKER, I remember you had a thread about your weathering technique which I am going to search for, but if you run by this thread again, can you tell me how you went about your weathering? I am going to do a Michael's run on the way home and see what I can do.

I pm'd you about this already but for everyone else- no this is not going to look like one shiny even piece of metal, but metal doesn't always either. You need to do 2 coats and it will even out a lot more. You can see areas that don't have enough- be sure to catch those spots. As for the tape areas-what kind of tape did you use? I used some on my helmet and then used rub n buff where it had been and no problem- it was painters blue tape. I say just put more rub-n-buff on the outer edge where it isn't as shiny and blend it in- that may help. I'd like to see what your helmet looks like at this point- can you post some pics?

I used regular masking tape. The beige variety. I had the blue kind but I misplaced it and went ahead with the regular masking tape. After I painted the helmet and let it dry thoroughly, I didn't even see any residue. Additionally, I cleaned the surface anyway. The R n B picked up something from the tape that I couldn't see or feel. I'll post some pictures tonight when I get home. I'm gonna try to weather it a bit first though.

Actually, I'll post pictures of how it is now first so you guys can see what I am talking about.

Shockwave, I totally know where you're coming from....Soju and I have fought with rub 'n buff for weeks...we tried everything...sanding, primering, over and over, and over...layering...nothing worked....it DOESN'T look like dirty, damaged metal...it just streaks. We tried rubbing it on with different things...fingers, soft cloths, rubber gloves, tissue paper...no luck. Then we tried brush and leaf...that didn't work, either...it really looked just like the chrome spray paint we'd used before, and would streak if we didn't paint it on all over the armor before it dried, which took about 3 seconds...we've given up. So if you do figure out how to get it looking good, please, PLEASE let me know. Good luck.

aerin19 wrote:
Shockwave, I totally know where you're coming from....Soju and I have fought with rub 'n buff for weeks...we tried everything...sanding, primering, over and over, and over...layering...nothing worked....it DOESN'T look like dirty, damaged metal...it just streaks. We tried rubbing it on with different things...fingers, soft cloths, rubber gloves, tissue paper...no luck. Then we tried brush and leaf...that didn't work, either...it really looked just like the chrome spray paint we'd used before, and would streak if we didn't paint it on all over the armor before it dried, which took about 3 seconds...we've given up. So if you do figure out how to get it looking good, please, PLEASE let me know. Good luck.

Wow! I'm very surprised by how many have had problems with Rub-n-buff. I wonder if maybe there are some old tubes out there or what??? Honestly, if anyone wants to send me something to rub-n-buff for them, I'd be happy to try it for them.

Okay everyone, I worked on it more before taking the pics because I only had limited time, but I finally got it!

These are the 3 things that ended up helping me.

1) Although there is often debate on whether or not Rub n Buff dries, one thing that I think was a big factor was the time between the coats of Rub n Buff. Yesterday, it was looking ****** and uneven. When I say uneven, I mean flat in some areas, shiney in others. I went to bed mad. Tick tock tick tock. Then, tonight about 24 hours later, I did another coat (thanks Mirax!) and although it would not even out last night, it DID tonight.

2) (Mirax! again ) Use a tiny amount at a time. I thought I was using a little before, but realized that I was using too much tonight. I squeezed the tube JUST to the point that it started coming out of the tube...barely....then put that on my index finger and blended it as wide as possible. Very thin. Then, when it was fully spread, I used soft tissue to buff it out. That coat from yesterday now seemed like an important base, and these thin layers went on well. If you use your finger and it clumps up at all, you are using too much. Huge thanks to Mirax for the help and to SEEKER for posting his helmet (that helped too).

3) The base....surface prep sanded with 220 grit, primered (Krylon grey) and wet sanded with 320 grit, then top layer with the Krylon Dull Aluminum #1403. I had to order the Dull aluminum online because I couldn't find it anywhere (well worth it). I used three other types of paints before this base, and this was the best for sure. Any of the other metallics or silvers gave me problems for one reason of another.

This first picture is of the second paint I tried and the first picture I posted here. Looks cool as #&#36;%@, but it ended up being too thick, too shiney, and NEVER dried.



I ended up striping it all the way down again and did the primer with dull aluminum. Here it is with the Rub n Buff. A few things to say...the colors are slightly less saturated in these pictures then they actually are. Also, the Rub n Buff is NOT as even as it looks in these pictures, but it looks very good now and like SEEKER said it shouldn't be perfect. Also, yes SEEKER, I know it needs weathering. I'll make you proud in that , just wanted to get some pictures up. Okay blah blah here are the pictures!









More to come! Thanks again to all of you for being on my side.

Hey shockwave, glad you got a result after yesterday's worries.

Looks really good!

I did spend a couple of minutes thinking either my eyes or my screen were screwed, though. I'd forgotten you were doing a custom and thought they were the worst Jango Blues I'd ever seen

Looking forward to seeing the weathering!

Get some sleep!

Si

It looks fantastic! I'm so glad you didn't give up. I had a feeling that the "uneven" look you were talking about was what I had until I recoated. So glad it worked for you!

Very nice

Be sure to buff real good where you are going to apply the pinstripes or it won't stick well since Rub-n-buff is a wax.

As for the brush n' leaf, I used it all over my new helmet, and gauntlets. The only time I used RNB at all, was to fill in any spaces that the BNL didn't cover.

Bravo!!! Glad to hear and see that you conquered Rub n Buff!

ShocKWavE, your helmet is awesome so far.
I tell you i was starting to get worried because i planned on using R&B on my armor and helmet. Now after hearing all the advice and seeing you figured out what the problem was and fixed it to make that sweet helmet, i'm getting more confident.
awesome job man

Thanks for the all the comments and advice. I can't wait to work more on it. BountyHunter185, be sure to mess around with the Rub n Buff on some test material a few times so that you get a feel for it's texture. Also, the test material should be prepared as your parts will be (including drying time). Just my opinion. It can definetely be a pain in the @ss to work with, but I was lucky to get the feel for it last night.

Oh and don't forget, if you had any areas where masking tape was, be sure to clean them well. Eventually I was able to make it all blend together, but those tape lines were mad news and not immediately evident.

Done!

Saw your other post first but will say it here- really awesome job you did! Congrats

Thank you. I'm very proud of it. It's my first hand-crafted Star Wars icon.

Just wanted to say again how Awesome of a job you did on your Helmet.
Keep up the great work.

That looks great man and the weathering is fantastic!

Ya you will make SEEKER proud.

Thanks.

Looks Fantastic!

What did you use to weather it?
That's a Rubies helmet, right?

Outstanding job!

I used Acrylic Black for the weathering applied with a sponge.

The base helmet is a Fiberglass from a DP 95.

wow! very nice weathering

Alright! I got weathering props from the clone . Weathering was what most gave it character I think.

Man, just when I thought I was getting good and telling
the different helmets apart.

Still... an amazing job!

ya I kind of half frowned and half smiled when you thought it was a Rubies . It's cool though. Actually, my video camera makes it look a bit longer and less flared than it appears to my eyes, but it still looks pretty good. Thanks again for the kind words.

maybe i should have a "I wanna be shockwave" fan club!!

u inspire me!! i would get mine starting and its gonna be a first for me too!!!! Great job on the bucket!!

Testors has a good 'buffable' metallic paint which is airbrushed on. I have used it and when I did it looked like real metal. I used different tints and buffed some areas more than others and it created a very realistic metal paintjob. But there is a catch 22..... Handling it will ruin the paint and clearcoating over it will protect it but you will loose the realistic look to it. Might as well just use silver paint and weather it.
I just use that type of paint only on scale models now where it will be for display.

BTW- Excellent helmet, you did a great paintjob on it!

Awesome job!
Since I'm new to all this? I have a question- Was there some kind of sealer you put over the Rub-n-Buff?

I am not him so I'm not sure but I'm assuming he didn't. The Rub 'N Buff is like a wax and a sealer wouldn't apply well. I'm not sure about this but I'm pretty sure I read it somewhere...

No, there is no sealer for the Rub-n-buff. And some clearcoats will bead up on it if applied. I've tried a mette coat that works, but dulls the finish. Best to leave it as is.

Thanks for the info--I would have made a terrible mistake!!

The only thing that I could see having to do is maybe reweathering over time because I'm not sure now well the acylic will hold to the RubnBuff but thats no big deal, just some detail sponging. So far it's just as it was when I finished though.

Looks Freekin fantastic
Cheers,
ST

How many tubes of the rub'n buff will i need for my helmet and all my armor?

Thanks

one.

Cool thanks!

Maybe 2.

You know what, i'll order 2 just in case. Thanks ShocKWavE.

I went around and bought about 10 tubes.I still have 9 1/2 left.LOL The stuff really goes far.You should probably get two just in case so you can practice first.
Ron

Cool thanks guys, i just ordered 2 from misterart.com.