Rubber Knees v1

Im working on making rubber knees. Im really tired of breaking mine. Ive got some good source material, but im trying to figure out the best way for me to allow for darts. Im thinking about putting solid piece of resin in side the knee dart area, similar to what FP did with his knees.

Do you think that they should be cast with orange/brown rubber, or white/silver and painted?

The rubber I have is the same as what im using for my helmet interior electronics skin over the foam. Its s30, and pretty interesting stuff. I have been testing microbaloons inside of it to see what kinds of subtle changes I can make to it.

Any input would be appreciated

i'd love to see it in silver.

silver cast would be cool, I have MOW rubber knees and they are cast in a sort of translucent yellow and since they are flexible my paint job's been cracking to the point of being able to see this yellow underneath. silver would be great, because it would like look real damage when the paint cracks

I have MOW knees, they are made out of Rubber. The only problem is that the paint cracks extremely easily on them, I was recommended to use a little bit of latex when airbrushing to help avoid paint cracking.

might also try getting some rubber cement and mixing that with your paint...might help give it some extra give when it moves.

This is an interesting thread...

Yep, I think silver is the way to go.

I may have a set of these ready sooner rather than later.

And a lot better quality than I first hoped for.

Ill have further information shortly

Mostly wanted to bump this because im rather excited.

any pictures at all?

Ill get more information for everyone. At this point. I have only one 'test' knee. I can show you a pic, but you wont be very impressed with it.

Dont worry, once I get the ok to explain where the project is, everyone will be... excited to say the least

Have patience, if everything goes as planned, ill be able to give you the info tomorrow

M2

Ok, so heres the update on the rubber knes.

I have been playing around with knees, why you ask? Because the set I bought cracked while trimming. The sintra knees I built last year, broke while getting ready to go out, so I decided its high time to do a nice run of rubber knees.

Fett Pride has been kind enough to offer his model for the mold of the rubber knees.

We think, after collaborating briefly that we can create a set of rubber knees that will be virtually indestructable. I have some samples of plastics and rubber that I will be showing him to get his approval when I pick up the IC Han in carbonite, and we will move forward accordingly.

First and foremost we want to make sure that this can be done at the same quality you have come to expect from anything stamped FP.

Im going to experiment with a few different things.

There are a few differnt plastics and foams that could be used for this. The key is finding the right combination.

Once I have a compression (squish) mold created of the knees, it should be just a matter of trial and error with different materials until we find one that both holds its shape, yet flexes without breaking.

If done right, I think this could be the last set of knees anyone has to buy for quite some time.

Thanks for your patience, and thanks Chris, for offering to let us use his masterfully created prop for this project.

Mason

Mason,
While searching for material, is it possible to have a material that will be solid enough that will allow for a good paint adhesion?

I've seen the rubber and/or foam clone belts and frankly, the paint is an issue.

I'm thinking it can be coated so the paint has a good surface to adhere to. The issue is going to be that the flex needs to be so minor that the paint doesn't crack, but the flex has to be there so the part won't break.

Is it even possible?

thanks for the update mason

Wow, sounds like these will be great, very interested.

Im looking at maybe cold casting these in aluminum silver.

It would be a brush in, not a resin mix, so the weight wont go up to speak of. But it would mean that if the paint _did_ manage to crack, all you would see is silver.

Im getting a sample from them today to test in my mold.

Ill keep you posted

Wow, you're doing fabulous job Mason. I had a feeling you were the right guy for the job

Just so everyone knows, I do fully endorse this project. I've been talking about rubber knees now for nearly 3 years. With everything that has happened in the last year, the blows I've taken, the hope of getting them out there for you guys was stopped dead in it's tracks, at least for an undetermined amount of time anyway.

My collaborating with Mason on this project was my way of trying to continue to contribute to the community in some minor capacity. I promised you all rubber FP "V.3" knees. Thanks to Mason for taking on this project, it will finally be realized.

The V.3 knee sculpts are the most current. They are "Movie Accurate". I can only take credit for giving them life. These were originally a collaborative effort based on a wealth of research, and contributions of privileged information provided by some of the community's most trusted members. A very special thank you to those members for their efforts over the years. (Brak's Buddy, Spideyfett, Evan4218 ) to name a few. There are others, but I will leave it to them to chime in if they so choose. You know who you are

These are the very same sculpts contributed to the largest collaborative Fett project that this community has ever been a part of ... the Jeremy Bulloch Project. Besides the medium of choice here, they are the same knees that Mr. Bulloch will adorn his suit with for many years to come. I'd like to think that these knees are "Community" knees, which is why I've donated them to this project as well. For you.

They're going to be great

FP

Hey Chris,
Great to see you chime in on this, I think Mason has done a great job of recreating your knees in the new rubber medium.
*Interested*

If these are cold cast I'd be interested, too.

-Chris

Nice work guys... they look great so far.

I think you should have plenty of interest in these...and so glad the finer details didn't wash out.

**I think it should also be known that a Percentage% of the proceeds will go back to FP and Pam if this run happens, and during this time would def help them. ...glad to see these FINALLY happen after months of talking about it.

count me interested.

Alex

Really interested in these. Anxiously awaiting the run to start.

Flippin cool brother! Good luck, can't wait to see the final product!

G-Fett

Count me interested too..they look great.

I want! I want!

When can I buy, where, and for how much? Definately interested!!!

Going to be a long night in the garage tonight, getting these ready to pour some test pairs tomorrow I think.

Spent another 600 on rubber and other supplies, but im set to go with this.

As for how much. They are going to be $65 with 45 going to FP and 20 to cover the materials.

Once I have put a pair in a couple peoples hands and gotten a thumbs up, they will be ready to rock.

And I _think_ the cold cast wont be much of a problem, but until ive pulled one, I wont know.

M2

*cough* interested....

...definitely interested since a good portion of the proceeds go to FP and Pam...

Count me in!

I will definantly be in for a pair

ooh count me in...I've never been happy with how my knees came out.

Great price...I'm interested too.

Interested in the rubber knees.

Yeah baby!......I'm in as well...hehe!

Can you put me down for the run. Fantastic project, not often everyone wins! Nice one Mason.

Minor update only. One mold is done, but the resin I have, isnt mixing properly. Im thinking I got a bad batch.

The rubber that I have, at 1/2 inch thick I can tear with my hands. Thats not acceptable. Ill be visting them monday early.

I also will be making another revision, to allott for aluminum knee darts.

Ill have a set of those to get the depths and widths correct.

The alum knee darts, wont be included in the kit obviously. But ill try to get a resin or rubber version thats the exact same size.

So much to do, and so little time

Interested in a set with darts! I'm also glad that we are supporting Chris and Pam with this.

Interested in a set too.

Those look great! Glad to see this project underway!!

Looks good. Put me on the list please!

UPDATE:

First, and foremost I work ont his project 2-4 hours every day Its proving difficult at best

So, that being said, i created a suspension mold for the left knee. They pull perfectly in resin, but in rubber, not so much.

I think theres a problem with the rubber I bought. Because I can tear it by hand. And theres NO WAY I should be able to. So ill be visiting alumilite today. Ive decided to do the mold over, as a 2 piece compression mold, instead of a 1 piece suspension compression mold.

The parts are just way too hard to get out. So, that being said, ill mount the knee today and build the box.

I need to contact chris today also, and see about the other dented knee. As of now, I only have one dented and one un-dented.

I need to drag out the final knee until later this week as the alum knee darts im going to fashion the knee darts off of are not here yet.

Rest assured ill keep everyone informed. Im as excited about these as you are.

On a side note, I used a high impact flexible resin for the knee I poured out of resin, and it is extremely tough. im not sure I could break it with my hands. Im still debating using it for some knees.

I'm down for a set

Im in for a set.

I would also be intrested!

forgot to post previous, but I noticed that you mentioned ESB. So would these also work for ROTJ? They look fine by me for ROTJ, just checking.

Originally Posted by IrishFett22

forgot to post previous, but I noticed that you mentioned ESB. So would these also work for ROTJ? They look fine by me for ROTJ, just checking.

you just need the extra dent, which could be added after the run of ESB to make the ROTJ.

If I remember correct I added all the dents to my FP v3 knees.

so its just a matter of making the molds for esb which you would wanna use the knees with the fewer number of dents to do first then could make the extra dent and make another mold?

I am pretty sure I read in other threads that the plan is for both.

Gee2 provided me with a nice set of aluminum darts. Ill be offering a set of such darts with the knees, for an added few dollars (10 or less) to the price tag if they are needed.

These darts are nicely machined, and if anyone is needing darts I wouldnt hesitate to contact Gee2.

He has given me permission to use them as a model for my mold. So the knee recesses will be done to fit his darts. (circumfrence wise) pics tomorrow.

I saw your other post with regard to projects and I'm still in for a set. All the way to the end, brother (and I'd still like darts with it).

Originally Posted by Stormrider

Gee2 provided me with a nice set of aluminum darts. Ill be offering a set of such darts with the knees, for an added few dollars (10 or less) to the price tag if they are needed.

These darts are nicely machined, and if anyone is needing darts I wouldnt hesitate to contact Gee2.

He has given me permission to use them as a model for my mold. So the knee recesses will be done to fit his darts. (circumfrence wise) pics tomorrow.

What will the darts be made of?
I'm unclear

Depending on price, I'm definitely interested

Ill be making a cast of the alum darts, either high impact resin, or rubber, with permission of course. And then if someone wants the same darts, that fit the set, in alum you can get them from gee2.

The issue at the moment is if I have him create a 'protruding' 'bolt like' part at the back end of it, to insert further into the knee, to add stability and something to glue to, even though it is unseen, is this too far from 'acurate'.

Originally Posted by Wolfie

you just need the extra dent, which could be added after the run of ESB to make the ROTJ.

If I remember correct I added all the dents to my FP v3 knees.

so its just a matter of making the molds for esb which you would wanna use the knees with the fewer number of dents to do first then could make the extra dent and make another mold?

I am pretty sure I read in other threads that the plan is for both.

There has been many and long discussions aboutr 'rotj' vs 'esb' dents.

The gurus are split here on the dents. FP, if I understood him right assures me that the dents are acurate for both movies. Now, this is a hot topic for debate. Some say they are the same knees, repaired. Some say they are the same knees, painted different. Some others say they are 'different' knees.

I tend to stay away from these sorts of arguments, and I am staying with chris (FP's) comment to me. Which is 'stay out of these arguments, these knees are acurate'

Now, maybe if spidey or art could chime in, that would help, unless chris frees himself up to check this thread.

And thank you all for the interest. Gonna be a big progress weekend im hoping.

The dents are the same for both movies. The only "different" knees, are in the SE when Pre-Pro knees were used. With the Pre-Pro Fett, all of the dents are different everywhere on the armour.

Just wanted to jump on, say hello and mention how great this project looks! If possible I would be very excited to get a set.

Thanks GCNGamer128, much appreciated for the clarification.

Originally Posted by GCNgamer128

The dents are the same for both movies. The only "different" knees, are in the SE when Pre-Pro knees were used. With the Pre-Pro Fett, all of the dents are different everywhere on the armour.

then there ya go. I spend too much time looking at SE pictures LOL

and I am extra interested on that note then lol

I'm definitely down for a set when available

I spent all afternoon with chris (FP). We went over the molds, the rubber, the prototype I pulled, etc. It all looks good. I got a nice pull of his vacc'd knees and ill be starting them as soon as im done typing this.

Now, heres where you all get to chime in The rubber I picked is just about perfect for this project. Now, if I degass it, it will be a lot more pure. But degassing takes time, and costs money. A degass machine is about 500 bucks by the time you have bought the tank, and the cylinder. I could also pressurise it, but that doesnt work well for parts like this, because while it will have the same effect, it would end up lowering the volume, and we would get a 'empty spot' in the mold.

So, the question is, pass on that 10 dollars a pair to you all, or go without the degassing. I will be working all weekend on the knees and pour a pair without degasing of course, but it is a question we all have to ask.

Any and all thoughts are welcome. I have never degassed any of my rubbers/resins/silicones but this information came straight from alumilites best rubber guy

At any rate. Ill be on and off as I work on these this weekend.

Ciao
Mason

If it means a cleaner pull with more integrity I'd pay the extra. Simply put if it means the product will stand up longer, the cost difference balances out in the long run. Especially when you consider buying replacements over time.

An extra $10 to ensure a much cleaner pull? seems fair to me bruv!

Super Accurate Props are always worth an extra $10

Given what I think was a very fair cost to begin with and the generous nature with which you were going to donate proceeds to Chris and Pam, I don't think anyone would take issue with the extra $10 to cover costs. Soldier on, Mason!

I second Madmartigans comment above.

Technically the exterior will be clean no matter what. What the machine does is take all the air out of the resin/rubber. Meaning that its 'glass pure' all the way through, instead of 'rough textured'.

So it makes it much tougher, much cleaner and better overall.

I intend to get one pair pulled and in the hands of an unbias observer before we make any decisions.

Ok, that being said im off to a LONG day in the work room.

M2

i'll happily pay the extra $10. no question.

Well I spent 10 hours getting the knees prepared. FettPride's stuff is amazing. Once you get the knees trimmed they have such a great shape to them. The trick here is getting them trimmed, and all the trim lines (at least most of them) sanded away, and then the entire cavity filled with epoxy plastic.

Once thats done, which is what I did all day, a coat or two of primer and spot filler to fill any gaps, and its off to the rubber races. Tomorrow it should take a rubber bath. Well technically, im going to have to use about 4 techniques on this mold. But it should yield impressive results.

I have cold cast powder (not true cold cast, but a silver powder coating.

FettPride thinks the knees are best off in yellow. On monday ill be buyinhg some yellow dye for the parts. This will mean you just put the overspray and silver/cream colored weathering on them, and your done.

The other options are black, and silver. Both of which have plusses and minuses.

Well, im off to create the final piece of this puzzle. More info tomorrow. Thanks for sticking with me.

Mason

thank you for doing so much work! do you think you'll be doing color optional? i'm all for silver, but will take what i can get

If they are yellow, the will probably all be yellow. Ill have to dye the entire batch of rubber in one swoop, to get it consistent. If they are black or silver, they could be more of a mixture, black I can do on a item basis. The sillver powder, is sometimes a logistical night mare but can yield really nice results (I did some of my custom earcaps like this).

Ill know once I start pulling some test knees whats possible and whats probable.

Im really hoping for rubber tomorrow.

Again, ive promised chris the highest possible (within reason time wise) product from his knees, and I dont want to let him down.

Personally, I'd prefer silver since it might mean that I can still do a layered technique with the cream and yellow. Even if the knees are yellow, I'd still likely repaint them silver so I can do the whole shebang layered. Saves me that step.

Originally Posted by Madmartigan

Personally, I'd prefer silver since it might mean that I can still do a layered technique with the cream and yellow. Even if the knees are yellow, I'd still likely repaint them silver so I can do the whole shebang layered. Saves me that step.

what he said

i mean... don't stress over it, painting them silver first won't kill anyone. my logic remains that at least scratches / chips will *look* intentional that way

if yellow is the color, then yellow is the color.

Ditto on the Silver as MM said but I also agree with Brian that it'll be no biggy if they come in yellow...

Well, the knees are in the primary rubber tonight.

If things go well before work tomorrow, ill start the insert. That will mean Ill be able to pull the test knees tomorrow night.

I ended up having to do the molds in a very expensive way. The rubber im using needs heat, so it will need to be warmed in the oven for 30 minutes (the mold that is) before pouring the rubber in. This will cause a faster and harder set of the rubber.

But trust me, you dont want know know what 4 gallons of this silicone costs so cross your fingers theres no blemishes in the mold and the seperation lines are right.

More tomorrow
m2

Knees are in the second half of the rubber now.

Should things go as planned, ill be able to pull pairs of them tomorrow.I see no reason, barring something happening to the mold tonight, that this wont work perfectly.

if I pull a pair tomorrow and im happy with them, expect a signup/committment thread by evening, and knees shipping by friday.

Ciao
Mason

Awesome.

Sounds good I can't wait until you pull the first one!!

SWEET!

Molds split, i had a little seep under to deal with. Most of it is not going to leave a parting line at all.

I also stamped themold with a FP on the inside of the knees.

While these are molded and made by me, FP deserves the credit for the mold, but more importantly, it doesnt actually stand for Fett Pride

It stands for 'For Pam'.

The price looks like $75 shipped US. (Add 10 if you need knee darts). Im not sure if the knee darts will be rubber or not. $85 outside the US.

Theres still a possibility of getting a degass machine. But I want to do a few without to test them first.

It should be noted that neither Chris (FP) or I could rip the test knee with our hands no matter how hard we tried. And I curl well over a hundred and bench 300. So the 'casual snappage' shoudl NEVER happen.

Still looking into the cold cast.

Im going to do a regular cast to clean out the mold (resin). A rubber cast. A rubber cast then paint it silver. And a cold cast tonight.

Then its time to look at what we have and make some decisions

Chris votes for an all orange knee. And he may be right, but im stubborn

Shaw-wing... great news bruv!

Chris still voting on the 'orange'? hmmmm *Hopes Mason's stubbornness holds out*

i'd even take black over orange... if your silver gets a scratch and it shows through orange, that will be pretty silly looking

black would at least look like a scuff.

Chris's reasoning which he made a very good point for is if they are the 'right' color orange, you just paint the dents and some overspray. then your paint wont likely crack. if you have to paint the wholt thing, your a lot more likely to get flaking and blistering if a full twist/ 90 degree bend happens.

I think that cold casting them may be the ticket. but that adds product, time, and failures to the mix.

The silver I use, unless you bend it past 45, to near 90, doesnt flake.

yeah, but that's if you want to do topical weathering... even if they are orange, i'd be spraying them silver

Getting anxious!

I agree I like black or silver. I pulled them in white resin, but all i have is an iphone to take pics with. So ill post them later, or in the morning. im warming the mold for rubber right now.

Orange with darts for international shipping please

Seriously tho - I dont care - Im still STUNNED with the interiors so if these are 1/4 as good Im VERY happy!

Glad you liked the foams Thee are pretty nice. They are extremely acurate knees, and extremely durable. Theres one seam im not happy with. Otherwise they are close to perfect. Its not terrible. just a hairline squiggly along the seam on one of the dart holders that id like to seee dissapear.

I think it will peel off without any difficulty. But it will take some time to do, as its only a half inch lng. Once thats off, everythings gold.

Im trying to figure out a good way to do the darts, so they are easy to secure. The rubber and or resin is machinable, so you can drill a hole (there are pre drilled insets for cleanness already) an stick maybe a threaded stem into it. But to do that. ill have to make copies of the darts with a threading on them. and they are really hard to demold did i mention that?

I'm in for a pair to Canada!

I am in for a pair too.

When you start making a signup list put me down for a set. After getting the helmet interiors there is no way in heck I would miss this run of knees!

Heres the first pull pics, as well as a 'prototype' dart. The darts will need to be re-molded to have a stem for mounting. But I wanted you to see the jist.

The signup / committment thread will be a seperate thread for simplicity.

Im doing one mass run on these. After that, the price may go up, as ill have to buy smaller quantities of rubber.

I sincerely hope you enjoy them. Descriptions will be in the othe thread.

WOW, nice work, they look great, no, perfect.

Incredible.

I'm seriously wishing I had 75 bucks right now...

This is so cool what is the gunmetal grey covering?????

Very nice knee's mate. Are we doing an interest / sign up thread for these yet? I may have missed the thread?

I'm in for a set for sure.

Hey guys, I know it was bumped but this thread is 3 years old.

Noticed the thread bump also, but are these still being produced? Look like a great addition to any Fett build.

Terrantula

**** didn't see that.....