ESB Shoulder Studs/ White? or Silver?

Most of you may have already noticed or were previously aware, but with the recent release of some ESB promo pictures, and going over ALL the screen-caps in the Empire Strikes Back movie......I don't think it's ever been discussed openly but "Why do we paint our ESB Shoulder Studs Sliver??" When in most of the Ref Material that has been seen and "unseen" clearly shows they are indeed White. IMO....no??

So painting them silver or using Aluminum shoulder studs would be incorrect on an ESB Fett suit??..No??:doh..........which also means on the JB Project, well, we got it wrong...:cry

You be the Judge.


EXAMPLE:

I have to agree Alex. The low light pics are the key.. The first pic I could say it's just the shine of the silver, but clearly the latter pics look white.

Maybe, possibly... probably. Oh good grief they do look white!!!

Definitely white

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Originally Posted by crazy4BobaFett

Maybe, possibly... probably. Oh good grief they do look white!!!

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:lol:lol:lol....I think allot of us assume because most the ref material has them painted, like the AOSW, MOW and C4 tour photos.....but most of the ESB stuff was repainted for Jedi anyway.....so why not the studs too?? I mean after ESB we NEVER see another Red topper stud again, ANYWHERE. :?

The only thing that throws me off is if you look at the Prepro 2 pictures, they're painted silver, :doh..so the time line doesn't match in terms of which came first......and yes I know they were two different suits (before Art corrects me ;)), but the time line for Silver vs White studs just puzzles me.:wacko

They may very well be white, and they do look white in the pics, but so does the silver scratches in the armor and helmet to varying degrees, even in the low light pics. You make a good point about the red topped one though. I would say it can be debated either way. Has anyone asked Jeremy or any of the production folks?

I'm with you, the studs are white as I saw on the C4 costume. If you see the scratches on the studs looks that it has three layers:

1st Red --> 2nd White --> 3rd Silver

Thanks for the detail Spidey, it confirms what I saw on the C4 pics :cheers

EDIT: Spidey, I think that them were white since the first costume (supertrooper) was done, because it was all white and its studs have the red tops.

hmmmm I'll have to look at my C4 pics when I get home.

Has it ever been confirmed that the studs were from an adding machine or calculator, I know that's always been the assumption.

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Originally Posted by never_ending_fett

They may very well be white, and they do look white in the pics, but so does the silver scratches in the armor and helmet to varying degrees, even in the low light pics. You make a good point about the red topped one though. I would say it can be debated either way. Has anyone asked Jeremy or any of the production folks?

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Actually yes I asked Jeremy, and honestly he didn't know all the finer details really, he only knew that he had a Green Pack, a "Blue Suit", and Green "forearm armor"..:thumbsup

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Originally Posted by KaanE

I'm with you, the studs are white as I saw on the cod of the C4 costume. If you see the scratches on the left one of the cod (on C4), because the right on the C4 wasn't a stud, looks that it has three layers:

1st Red --> 2nd White --> 3rd Silver

Thanks for the detail Spidey, it confirms what I saw on the C4 pics :cheers

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OH YEAH Totally forgot about that shot from C4!!...good point:thumbsup, can you post that pic??? away from my home P.C.

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Originally Posted by Spideyfett

Actually yes I asked Jeremy, and honestly he didn't know all the finer details really, he only knew that he had a Green Pack, a "Blue Suit", and Green "forearem armor"..:thumbsup

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That's kinda what I figured, how about any of the production people or costume designers etc

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Originally Posted by KaanE

EDIT: Spidey, I think that them were white since the first costume (supertrooper) was done, because it was all white and its studs have the red tops.

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Good point, but who's to say they weren't painted silver for the ESB. I really am not saying they definately were silver I just don't think we can say they were definately white either. So I'm more arguing it from the possibility that they were silver.

I think a little history lesson about how the Supertrooper turned into the ESB and Prepro 2 suit is necessary.............ART where are you?? :lol

Well Spidey, I haven't got the pics here but have searched on the MoM pics and here is a nice pic of the stud of the MoM cod :D And yes, we need you Art! :cheering

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Originally Posted by KaanE

Well Spidey, I haven't got the pics here but have searched on the MoM pics and here is a nice pic of the stud of the MoM cod :D And yes, we need you Art! :cheering

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PERFECT, thank you SIR..:thumbup...wow, great shot.!

hey kaane, that doesnt look white to me? looks silver...:doh or is that the point, that the actual esb fett has the white studs...? and these are from exhibits? just curious, interesting thread...

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Originally Posted by FettDad

hey kaane, that doesnt look white to me? looks silver...:doh

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point being that the RED is UNDER the silver.....hense it being repainted.;)

I love history lessons! This will be fun!

here's my thought
White resin unpainted to begin with
then the red top added
then silver (or maybe even grey) on top of that

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Originally Posted by slave1pilot

here's my thought
White resin unpainted to begin with
then the red top added
then silver (or maybe even grey) on top of that

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that sounds right to me... or close:thumbsup

Based on the way the paint is coming off on the pic kaane posted I would say that the whole thing started red then was painted white for the supertrooper and then silver/grey for the prepro/esb etc. The question is when was it painted silver/grey. I'm sure there were multiple sets so the silver/grey could have come at different times even.

edit: I would say silver is what the top layer was originally, but the silver has rubbed off leaving grey.

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Originally Posted by slave1pilot

here's my thought
White resin unpainted to begin with

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Maybe, but... why do resin casts if you have a full keyboard with a lot keys to use? :?

I think that they just used the "white" keys and painted the top red as you said here:

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Originally Posted by slave1pilot

then the red top added
then silver (or maybe even grey) on top of that

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And thank you Spidey! You saw the detail ;)

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Originally Posted by never_ending_fett

I would say that the whole thing started red then was painted white for the supertrooper and then silver/grey for the prepro/esb etc.

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I think that you're correct, more than me! And maybe its "original" color was not the red, but they, maybe, painted them red like the red on the greeblies on the ESB EE-3 (a metall red). After they painted the white and the silver.

:cheers

Just my opinion!

It was the 70's everything came in strange colors, so i'm thinking red adding machine keys.

Has it been "officialized" that they were keys?

I don't think so, it's been hypothosized that they were, and I asked that earlier but I guess it got missed.

but at a quick google search I found this guy with the one red key

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Originally Posted by never_ending_fett

It was the 70's everything came in strange colors, so i'm thinking red adding machine keys.

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We ended up using Mac keys instead of adding machine keys for the JB Project... once you painted them silver, with no primer, the silver rubbed off exactly like the MOM pics and exposed the white edges....but I might agree that the one or two keys used may have been Red to start.:thumbsup...the rest def white or gray.

Just thinking, in the actual ESB movie, there doesn't seem to be the lone grey stud that attatched the cape in the Officialpics. Anyone agree? Would that make those pics kinda like the last final photo check of the suit they did before filming? Therefore any further differences between those pics and the movie would be very minor.

Just curious, but what colour are the studs in ROJ? :fettrotj I've been paying attention to the ESB suit more (since that's what I'll be attempting to paint). Are they grey/silver?

They are silver/grey on the ROTJ

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Originally Posted by Spideyfett

We ended up using Mac keys

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Ahhhhhh! The PAIN!!!! You mutilated a Mac keyboard? :cry

Just kidding. Anyway, I recently noticed the red on the top of the studs too. I always assumed they were silver on ESB, but they look white from the new pics. the question is which ones are red topped, becuase they do not ALL look like they are red on top

It looks to me and I think this has been mentioned already, but there is only 1 red topped stud and it moves locations from shot to shot. My guess and only a guess is that the red one may have ORIGINALLY been intended to signify something, most likely a longer bolt to be used for the cape. But maybe it didn't make a big enough difference to bother and got moved around each time they bolted Jeremy into the costume.

Back to the original question at hand, I still say they are silver in those shots. If you want to argue that they are white simply because they look white in the pics and stills you could just as easily say that the color of the scratches on the helmet is white because they look white in the same pics and stills. I may be wrong and that's fine I'm making a ROTJ:SE anyway so it's not like I have to change anything if I am wrong LOL. It just doesn't seem to make any sense that they would be white, except for the white details on the gauntlets and the jet pack, maybe they were white to match those areas...now I'm starting to convense myself that it could make sense to be white, I don't know.

Great topic either way. Thanks for bringing it up Spidey! Oh what's with the "unseen" reference material you speak of?

Hmmm...now that you mention it, they do kinda look white to me!!!!! My question is, why the heck do they have an all grey one on there???

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Originally Posted by never_ending_fett

Back to the original question at hand, I still say they are silver in those shots. If you want to argue that they are white simply because they look white in the pics and stills you could just as easily say that the color of the scratches on the helmet is white because they look white in the same pics and stills. I may be wrong and that's fine I'm making a ROTJ:SE anyway so it's not like I have to change anything if I am wrong LOL. It just doesn't seem to make any sense that they would be white, except for the white details on the gauntlets and the jet pack, maybe they were white to match those areas...now I'm starting to convense myself that it could make sense to be white, I don't know.

Great topic either way. Thanks for bringing it up Spidey! Oh what's with the "unseen" reference material you speak of?

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You can probably look at it both ways..... I guess my question would be, Why did you/everyone assume they were silver to begin with???....maybe cause ROTJ studs are? or maybe cause the Prepro#2 studs are silver??..either way I think over all it was just "assumed" and never really discussed..:thumbsup
I still say white...;)

And in terms of unseen pics, that's with any Star Wars Character....there are plenty of pictures that have yet to be seen....unfortunate. But LFL is not obligated to release Every shot ever taken, yet it doesn't mean they haven't been seen;)...Although us Fett heads might want to see all of them.

And yeah, I agree...pretty good thread so far huh?:lol

That's a good question, and you definately pose a good argument for them being white. How long have you thought they were white?

Here's a question for you though, Since they were white for the supertrooper, why would they have painted them silver for the prepro then repaint them white for ESB only to paint them silver again for ROTJ. Assuming it's the same set wouldn't all those layers show through on that close up shot. I'm sure they would have had more than one set of them from all the supertroopers, but it makes for a good argument against them being white anyway.

Best topic I've been involved with for awhile LOL

After keeping up with the discussion and all the thoughts for and against them being white on the ESB, plus my own thoughts, it just seems if nothing else that it makes sense in logistical terms that they would be silver. As was mentioned for them to paint them back and forth between white/silver/white/silver from the Supertrooper - ROTJ it seems "unlikely".....that's the key word. The likelihood of it happening doesn't mean it didn't (painting them back and forth) just more "unlikely" that it did.:wacko:?:wacko ....does that make sense for an argument for silver on ESB or what :lol

Silver on ESB is where I stand......

Steve

so if thoes are white what color is ROTJ shoulder studs

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Originally Posted by Son of the Baptist

so if thoes are white what color is ROTJ shoulder studs

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silver

SF,
Great question...
I think a lot of ppl don't realize that if you really look. the ESB has a certan number of colors in total and the seem to stick to those ones.

For example the helmet and Jet Pack...
Each pretty much has the same colors.
Green,Red,Yellow,White,Black Silver.

so I don't think the idea of white studs is too far fetched.

I'm almost done my suit sooooo, I'll leave my Mac keys white..:D (w/a red top)

I can always paint'em if I don't like it... accuracy is what all Fett-head's strive for anyways.

Sixx

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Originally Posted by DL44 Blaster

After keeping up with the discussion and all the thoughts for and against them being white on the ESB, plus my own thoughts, it just seems if nothing else that it makes sense in logistical terms that they would be silver. As was mentioned for them to paint them back and forth between white/silver/white/silver from the Supertrooper - ROTJ it seems "unlikely".....that's the key word. The likelihood of it happening doesn't mean it didn't (painting them back and forth) just more "unlikely" that it did.:wacko:?:wacko ....does that make sense for an argument for silver on ESB or what :lol

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You bring up a good point Steve..and I think that's part of the issue... Art can probably explain it better, but from what I understand the Supertrooper came first (white shoulder studs) ....that we know.
Here's the tricky part, and something that most of you might not be on board with... There were more than one suit being produced AT THE SAME TIME once the Supertrooper concept was abandoned.... assuming that the Prepro #1 and #2 are the same suit is incorrect. PrePro #1; #3 and ESB are of the same suit (white shoulder studs). Pre Pro#2 and ROTJ are both the same as well, except they tried to match Boba to the Prepro#2 ref material (Silver studs) hense the repaint for Jedi......(also keep in mind that there are two Artists that painted the helmets too, hense the Sandy helmets prepro#2 and ROTJ, and Joe Johnston for ESB.)
That may be the simplest way of putting it but I think grouping them like that and knowing that there wasn't just one suit is probably an important part that's not being mentioned. So there really wasn't any going back and forth of repainting studs, until ROTJ...

Art feel free to comment if I'm off...I'm sure I'm not entirely correct..but more than one suit thing was my point.:thumbsup

Do we have good enough shots of prepro 1 and 3 to determine if the studs are silver or white? I don't remember seeing any. Do we know for sure that the same suit was repainted in that lineage of for the sake of argument supertrooper 1 -> prepro 1 -> prepro 3 -> ESB. There was what, 6 supertroopers to start with?

Like I said, I love history lessons, that's half the reason I'm arguing it, to learn something!

Alex,

You pretty much said exactly what I would have said. There were 6 complete suits and the parts for the suits were never well defined and STILL aren't well defined. Pieces have floated back and forth from suit to suit over the years as well as during development. We often make broad sweeping statements like "The first supertrooper became the PP1 which became the PP3, which became the ESB Hero." While this statement is true in a broad and general sense, it may not be true for every single piece of the suit.

One of the themes we have come back to again and again and again over the years is that because we microanalize the details of the suits we tend to create these extravagent explanations for why certain things are done a certain way. However, the more we have learned the more we have come to find that usually whatever is the simplest, cheapest, and quickest answer is usually the correct answer.

In regard to the whole repainting of the shoulder studs, as Alex pointed out, there had to be at LEAST 6 sets of studs... meaning at minimum 32 studs. From what we have seen different suits were painted at different times, by different people, and a lot of the pieces were later repainted for other scenes/movies. It is unlikely that there was a conscious decision to change the colors of the studs as much as it just happened during the process.

Are the ESB studs white? I don't know, but I could easily buy it. The supertrooper studs were a gloss white, just like the rest of the suit and there is no reason why some of the studs might not have made it into ESB without being repainted. The PP1 appear to be silver or light grey. The PP2 seem to be silver painted over white. The PP3 appears to have one dark grey stud and the rest appear to be either white or silver, with one having the red top. As you can see... they are just all over the place.

As for the ESB studs... my personal opinion is that it changes... I know.. you didn't want to hear that, but in some scenes, I feel like I see the same silver/white mottling that is seen on the PP2, especially when Fett is in Slave 1. Just looks like they are silver and some of it has rubbed off on the edges. In a lot of scenes it is unfair to judge because of the harsh lighting coming from overhead and blowing out the studs, making them appear white. However, there are a few pics (mostly publicity photos) where they truly do appear to be solid white. Very very hard to say and I am not definitively convinced one way or another. I know that isn't what you guys wanted to hear, but I just don't have a solid answer... of course the answer could be that they changed throughout production and they may have simply grabbed up different studs at different times... who knows.

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Originally Posted by slave1pilot

Has it been "officialized" that they were keys?

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Not in my opinion. While they may have been cast from keys, I think it is pretty clear that they are castings and not the keys themselves.

I see the dark grey stud in pics 2 and 3 spidey posted originally, but not in any of the others so I would definately buy that they used which ever ones were handy at the time with no reason at all. Not at all disapointed with your answer Art, thanks for throwing in your input.

Another shot, showing a chip that helps one see the paint layers.

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Originally Posted by ART ANDREWS

Not in my opinion. While they may have been cast from keys, I think it is pretty clear that they are castings and not the keys themselves.

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on the one holding down the cape you can really see the rough edge suggesting that it was a casting, nice shot, I'm not sure if I've seen that one before or at least never payed close enough attention to it. Is that from CIV?

WOW 32 studs???? wow.... begining to think that continuity wasn't much of a Priorty back then when dealing with Fett...:lol

Thanks Art for clarifying... bout time...really good info. though.

(sending Jeremy a new set of WHITE STUDS as we speak) ;)

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Originally Posted by never_ending_fett

on the one holding down the cape you can really see the rough edge suggesting that it was a casting, nice shot, I'm not sure if I've seen that one before or at least never payed close enough attention to it. Is that from CIV?

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Nope. That is from MoM.

Cool stuff Art! I was being too generalized in my Supertrooper - ROTJ....it's kinda where I was headed. I guess I never really thought about the smorgasboard of parts that were available to make the ESB suit by the time production was going on. The darker gray stud and the red topped right stud in the Lando/Trooper/Boba/Vader/Lobot scene really do indicate that was the case in the "grab bag" that was Fett back then:lol.

With the recent pics posted up by Alex:love, it gives hope to many more ESB discoveries being made.

......drat....now with the new pics and the studs in question, I may be onto a repaint sooner than I expected:lol....at least paint is cheap.

Viva' la' ESB!!!:fettesb:thumbsup
Steve

I originally wasn't even going to touch on this thread. It's an interesting theory, but in the end it's one that can never be proven without a doubt.

First I want to applaud Alex for what he's doing. We all need to look at Fett with fresh eyes. We all have our assumptions of what we think is going on with ESB; some ideas that have carried over from other versions of the suit, and some that have entered our subconscious from replica suits made over the years. We need to throw all that out the window to really figure out this version of the suit.

I agree that we should not just assume that the studs are silver. But let's not just assume that they are white because they look white in pictures. I've been doing a lot of color research on ESB, and picture are VERY misleading. Of the few known colors on the suit, they are several shades darker in real life than in pictures or stills.

In looking at all the pictures again with this thread in mind, I really have no answers. They could be white, silver, or even light grey. But the one thing that jumps out at me is that the shoulder studs appear flat. I can't seem to find any picture that shows them reflecting any kind of light. That to me opens up the option that they could be painted silver or aluminum, but just with a flat coat.

Since the real costume parts are either repainted, lost, or hidden away in the archives, the only way to figure out this puzzler is with a lot of tests. Shoulder studs painted in every possible variation, photographed under bright studio lights. But even then there might not be a definitive answer.

Again, great thread! I love the challenge of trying to figure out ESB Fett. And to close, here's my favorite quote about Fett from Joe Johnston:

"I painted Boba's outfit and tried to make it look like it was made of different pieces of armor. It was a symmetrical design, but I painted it in such a way that it looked like he had scavenged parts and had done some personalizing of his costume; he had little trophies hanging from his belt, and he had little braids of hair, almost like a collection of scalps"

-Ryan

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Originally Posted by BOBA PHAT

I originally wasn't even going to touch on this thread. It's an interesting theory, but in the end it's one that can never be proven without a doubt.

First I want to applaud Alex for what he's doing. We all need to look at Fett with fresh eyes. We all have our assumptions of what we think is going on with ESB; some ideas that have carried over from other versions of the suit, and some that have entered our subconscious from replica suits made over the years. We need to throw all that out the window to really figure out this version of the suit.

I agree that we should not just assume that the studs are silver. But let's not just assume that they are white because they look white in pictures. I've been doing a lot of color research on ESB, and picture are VERY misleading. Of the few known colors on the suit, they are several shades darker in real life than in pictures or stills.

In looking at all the pictures again with this thread in mind, I really have no answers. They could be white, silver, or even light grey. But the one thing that jumps out at me is that the shoulder studs appear flat. I can't seem to find any picture that shows them reflecting any kind of light. That to me opens up the option that they could be painted silver or aluminum, but just with a flat coat.

Since the real costume parts are either repainted, lost, or hidden away in the archives, the only way to figure out this puzzler is with a lot of tests. Shoulder studs painted in every possible variation, photographed under bright studio lights. But even then there might not be a definitive answer.

Again, great thread! I love the challenge of trying to figure out ESB Fett. And to close, here's my favorite quote about Fett from Joe Johnston:

"I painted Boba's outfit and tried to make it look like it was made of different pieces of armor. It was a symmetrical design, but I painted it in such a way that it looked like he had scavenged parts and had done some personalizing of his costume; he had little trophies hanging from his belt, and he had little braids of hair, almost like a collection of scalps"

-Ryan

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Great post Ryan..:thumbup...very well said...glad you did post.

And thats exactly what I'm trying to do....is to figure this costume out...ROTJ has all the reference in the world, but ESB until now is just not on the same level in terms reference....but I think we can change that with some of the photos that have been released and Facts we do know about.

I think you are 100% right on point, you can't say for an absolute fact that they are silver or white based on photos.... it's just impossible to do it that way.

I think DL Blaster said it best...it was a "smorgasboard" of parts by the time Fett hit the screen for ESB...:lol..and no one will ever really know for sure.


:fettesb

Great posts! I agree 100% that at this point there's no way to know without a shadow of doubt that they were one color or another. Photos definately aren't the best tool to judge color accurately, especially without a greyscale/grey card reference. The costume was painted to look like scavenged parts, and in some ways it kinda was scavenged missmatched parts from the various versions, especially the ROTJ and more so in the SE.

Where do we go from here?

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Originally Posted by never_ending_fett

Where do we go from here?

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:lol:lol..good question...

I say we take a vote or a poll?? maybe?...so we can call this one done.;)


Personally, I'll probably paint them white. :lol

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Originally Posted by Spideyfett

:lol:lol..good question...

I say we take a vote or a poll?? maybe?...so we can call this one done.;)


Personally, I'll probably paint them white. :lol

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Personally, I'll paint mine silver, but I'm doing ROTJ :lol

Great topic, i've said it before, but I'm saying it again.

By what's next I was meaning what mystery are we going to attempt to tackle next?

I vote white...
I like to be different:D
It makes me feel good that I didn't buy a aluminum set and decided to go with real keyboard keys...

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Originally Posted by Spideyfett

:lol:lol..good question...

I say we take a vote or a poll?? maybe?...so we can call this one done.;)


Personally, I'll probably paint them white. :lol

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I know I dont post on here much but I must say that I think they are still silver. I used to have a silver car that under bright light it would look like it's white. Maybe this is what we are seeing.



Also, look at other things in those pics that you know are silver, they also look white.

Comparison to trooper armor may help??
and contrasting to the red background I see white..:b
also we know the left ear has white at the top sooo ... it seems to have the same value.

SF posted it already but i thought a whole pic may change some minds.


http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/996/esbhdbdt6.jpg

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Originally Posted by Sixxgunn13

Comparison to trooper armor may help??
and contrasting to the red background I see white..:b
also we know the left ear has white at the top sooo ... it seems to have the same value.

SF posted it already but i thought a whole pic may change some minds.

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Yeah, that's the pic that makes me believe they're white, just as you said Sixxgunn because of the value of the "whiteness" of the trooper compared to the stud....as most of the silver in that pic has grey values with white highlights, the studs don't...

Great shot.:thumbsup

the studs look gray to me in that last pic, which seems like what a flat aluminum would be, but I may be seeing it differently somehow. I think an analysis of how they look in motion, how they appear as they move around might reveal more than a still by itself. The thing is, they have flat sides, and under the bright lights of the set they are unlikely to show gradations of color, so comparing to the suit's other silver parts could be misleading. Interestingly, the silver strip on the hexagonal center chest piece, which is flat-sided like the studs and at the same angle to the camera, is showing up a similar whitish/gray color as the studs, but I believe it is universally acknowledged that it is in fact silver there. Am I wrong? I could be. Maybe that is not agreed upon. Anyway, aluminum color can easily light up as white as has been suggested here already. Watching the studs move through the light might reveal gradations in color if they are actually silver. Trouble is, I believe they go to a wider shot when he starts walking through the set in this scene, making the resolution too low for any helpful analysis. I actually have 35mm film of this scene that one could take to a lab for color density readings if we are desperate enough. :lol

Also, not to confuse the issue, but... I see a lot of ESB fett armor vests that are bright white, but here in this frame from the film, if going on the other values of white in the image, that vest is clearly a light gray and not a blindingly clean white I so often see in repros. In fact, there is even a clear difference of color between the vest and the neck seal which appears whiter. I think this gray vest suffers from the same problem as the gray/silver studs... all lit up, they have a tendency to look white when in fact they aren't.

But I am happy to acknowledge I have no idea what the answer is. My opinions are admittedly subject to extreme error. :o

Sixxgunn, that's a pretty interesting point with the stormtrooper in the shot, however as Lufo mentioned there is the center diamond piece which appears to have the same value as the studs. Also if you look at the last shot that Alex posted in his original post look at the calculator pad compared to the studs. The calculator pad is universally accepted as silver and it appears to have the same value as the studs as well.

We may never know for sure, but I am closer to accepting white as a possibility than i was before but I think for now I will still hold to my opinion that they are silver.

Heres a silly question, but it says, and not a direct quote...

'trophies hanging from his belt'. What are the trophies on his belt?

Here's that same pic, but with a little color correction. It's really all in the eye of the beholder, but I see a flat aluminum. I'm going to watch ESB again, and see what these look like in action. If they are really white, it should be very noticeable.

-Ryan

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Originally Posted by Stormrider

'trophies hanging from his belt'. What are the trophies on his belt?

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That refers to this pic from the PP2 suit. It kind of looks like a metal safety cap from a solvent can. As far as I know this is the only trophy, and it was only on this version of the suit. And no, that's not a silly question!

-Ryan

Aw k-rap! The chest armor center diamond is generally considered silver?!?! I thought it was generally considered white!!?? It too looks to be the same color as the studs.

HA.. someone has jokes :rolleyes

But seriously, we've all been so use to the fact it may be silver studs, we've never questioned it till now... I've been in a member/lurker for 10+ years and I've overlooked a lot of stuff due to not really looking...
But If you really look at the suit as a whole it only make sence to have white dabbled here or there.

Almost every green part has some form of white on it..

I see white, others may not... but hey I like my suit right.:lol

Edit**

Can someone clip and paste the WHITE studs near the known silver parts (chest diamond)
so you can see the grey tones next to the WHITE of the studs...lol

I guess the Stormtrooper is silver as well:doh

ok, I got bored. Here are parts of the studs, the center piece and the stormtrooper blown up into swatches, placed next to each other with a neutral 155/155/155 gray in back. The studs show an RGB reading that is closer to the diamond center piece than the trooper, but I noticed two problems with this image. First, it is too low resolution. This causes serious bleeding on the studs from surrounding colors. Secondly, the color correction is skewed. There are no true whites. Even the stormtrooper is reading more in the baby blue range. I don't think this image will produce definitive results.

Nice pics Lufo :) I wonder how much the shadow and lighting affects those screenshots though.

I think I'll just paint mine light/pale grey like the subtle tones in the helmet colours... :lol

Maybe they were a light grey like the AT-AT's grey. That's can be an explanation of why sometimes they look a light grey and sometimes they look white.

Thx Lufo...:thumbsup
I wasn't able to do that cause my Mac is not at my place.

I have a higher res-image, I think...I'll try the same and post it later.

Remember how we all thought AT-AT Pilots were white?

Mac user Sixx? Rock on!!!

So if they started on the super trooper, but there were 6 suits made total, they all could have started out white, and each set was painted/repainted arbitrarily?

Not trying to kink up the works, but I'm not even convinced that the Albino Fett studs were white. These pics are a very low quality, but I don't see the studs as white. There's a good full shot of the Albino Fett in the Insider #99 that I need to scan.

And on the previous color correction the bright point in that pic is the wall light next to the trooper, not the trooper. I messed with the colors to take any color shift out of the trooper, and it really fouled up the whole picture! Shadows on white objects naturally fall in the blue range.

MACS RULE!

-Ryan

Interesting development. I see what you are saying about not being weight, they sure look at least darker than the armor that's for sure.

Ryan, I am with you to a degree. However, I do believe at least some of the supertroopers did have white shoulder studs. I know this is a terrible photo, but the studs appear to be white to me in this example.

Is there more to that photo Art? Do we have a way to distinguish one supertrooper from another? I would agree that they definately look white in that shot, at least compared to the armor and helmet but it's hard to tell for sure in black and white.

There is... but the fact is, right now, I can't show it... :( I am trying my hardest to get these released and as always, will do so as soon as I have permission.

From the limited photos I have seen, no I don't think there is any real way to ID one supertrooper from another. I tend to believe that most of the photos we see is the first one sent over which later became the PP1. I doubt they bothered taking photos of the others because they were all going to be repainted... of course a lot of that is just my thoughts and opinions.

I'm sure that's just as frustrating for you as it is for us. What's holding LFL from giving the OK to release them, or is it even LFL? How many pictures or other resourses are out there that are known about that are blocked from public release for one reason or another?

Anyways, back on topic. The little bit of the pic you posted, do you think that is a different suppertrooper than the rest? Where was it taken, can you tell from the background, it looks like a workshop or something maybe still in London.

What you say makes sense for sure, I would not expect them to take photos of each and every stormtrooper and since the supertrooper was essentially the same thing to start off with, why photograph each one...

I believe this to be the same trooper in the other pictures posted. I believe it to be the first supertrooper suit after it was completed. It was apparently taken in the UK by the team that built it. This appear to be continuity shots or perhaps just shots to send over to the US for OK. There are only three shots, front, back, right side.

Nice shot Art...

and I would agree, the studs on the supertrooper are def white.:thumbsup

most, if not all of the armor and helmet on the supertrooper has a gloss finish, and the studs don't...so those pics should take into account for the finish aswell.

The supertrooper is really the only reason I started this thread, cause the studs started out white to begin with....which is why I still feel the ESB Studs weren't painted silver during that time and are white as well....:thumbsup

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spideyfett

The supertrooper is really the only reason I started this thread, cause the studs started out white to begin with....which is why I still feel the ESB Studs weren't painted silver during that time and are white....:thumbsup

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Nice detective work Alex! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ripcode

Nice detective work Alex! :)

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I wandered if you'd chime in bruv? ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ripcode

Nice detective work Alex! :)

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HA HA!! call it Spidey sense..:D

Seriously I just think we need to reexamine allot of what we've seen in pictures. Most of the answers are right in front of us, for the most part anyway.....not saying I know everything, but just taking what we DO know from previous research, and what we Have seen and going from there:thumbsup...

besides these kinds of threads are fun, and are what these boards are about.......blah blah blah..:lol

And WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR FETT MISTER??>:

This thread ROCKS! Hey are there any color pics of the supertrooper out there? All 6 of the suits that were made started out as supertrooper?

You guys are nerds.








There's definitely some variations of color and knowing that the suit is mixed and matched over and over, it would seem that all of these examples would be correct.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MandalorFett

You guys are nerds.

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Ain't we all? :lol

;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shinobi_Fett

This thread ROCKS! Hey are there any color pics of the supertrooper out there?

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Yes, but they are relatively small and don't show detail.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shinobi_Fett

All 6 of the suits that were made started out as supertrooper?

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More or less. It seems by the time the last helmet was made they were no longer painting them white. Seems that by the end they knew it was no longer going to be a "Supertrooper"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ART ANDREWS

More or less. It seems by the time the last helmet was made they were no longer painting them white. Seems that by the end they knew it was no longer going to be a "Supertrooper"

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Very interesting! This is the best part of these types of threads, we pull info out of the experts and learn something :lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spideyfett

And WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR FETT MISTER??>:

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I miss it... :doh

Will be starting over in 2009! :suprise

I kept the helmet, blaster and shin tools so I won't have to re-do those... :o

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spideyfett

Seriously I just think we need to reexamine allot of what we've seen in pictures. Most of the answers are right in front of us, for the most part anyway.....

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Hey, you keep supplying the high res pics and we will all be more than happy to reexamine them with you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ART ANDREWS

Hey, you keep supplying the high res pics and we will all be more than happy to reexamine them with you.

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(foot in mouth)...:lol

I will just chime in here and say, who else KNEW that AT-AT pilots were GREY after all these years!!??? :lol

My point is, its easy to see from the photos that they look 'white' if you ask me they are probably Purple ;)

Interesting pic tease there, Art!

I agree that the studs in that pic do look white. In fact much more white than the armor. Which is a little puzzling. At first I thought that maybe the armor was unpainted, but the helmet ears are already white.

Maybe I'm just a doubting Thomas, but I'm still unsure of what's going on with the ESB studs. I'll end up doing some paint and photo tests when I'm ready to make new collar studs. That's the only way I'll be able to convince myself one way or the other.

-Ryan

Not to de-rail, but I knew At-At pilots...........s Jumpsuit was grey. :D The chect armor and Helmet are grey too? INteresting that the action fig had always been white

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BOBA PHAT

Interesting pic tease there, Art!

I agree that the studs in that pic do look white. In fact much more white than the armor. Which is a little puzzling. At first I thought that maybe the armor was unpainted, but the helmet ears are already white.

Maybe I'm just a doubting Thomas, but I'm still unsure of what's going on with the ESB studs. I'll end up doing some paint and photo tests when I'm ready to make new collar studs. That's the only way I'll be able to convince myself one way or the other.

-Ryan

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I guess i'm on the same page. I'm usually a stickler for accuracy, but i just don't know on this one. I really think that white studs will look kind of, well....out of place or "dumb" on the ESB suit. Don't get me wrong, If it can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt that they are in fact white, then I'll be the first to paint mine white. Otherwise, i think I'm going to have to keep mine silver. Right now I just don't know. Definately a great discussion though!!!!

Don't mean to bring this up again, but after looking at more and more pics I still think the stud on ESB are white..:thumbsup

http://www.thedentedhelmet.com/attac...7&d=1230656955
http://www.thedentedhelmet.com/attac...8&d=1230656955

Nice shots... :thumbsup

In that B&W shot, there is a definate difference between the studs and the damage on the armor. Am I 100% convinced...no...closer though. I will say though that if the studs are white then the center of the diamond is white too....maybe....

Yeah, but aluminum is pretty. :)

Ok, I am dragging up an old thread. I have always thought they were white with the red topped one and gray one thrown in from time to time, but what are they? I have seen some adding machine keys that look very similar, and I have seen some adding machine keys that are white and gray. Maybe that is what they used and they painted the top of one red. What is the consensus?

Attachment 53869

Just more proof... White.:thumbsup

http://www.thedentedhelmet.com/attac...9&d=1308412967

and here's what they look like from the back LOL
Attachment 53872


http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/9175/studse.jpg