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What is the issue?

  1. #1
    mixmastermace's Avatar
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    What is the issue?

    I used Rustoleum Metallic Bright Coat and am painting the RS list colors on top of it via airbrush. As you can see from the below pics:

    http://picasaweb.google.com/MixMaste...07877086012098

    http://picasaweb.google.com/MixMaste...07911445750482

    It comes right off. All coats have been given over 48hrs to cure. I've been using "delicate surface" blue painters tape to mask. The tape caused what you see in the picture. I even noticed the masking fluid pulls off the silver underneath it when removed.

    What did I do wrong and how do I fix it?

  2. #2
    Sixxgunn13's Avatar
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    Re: What is the issue?

    I use the green tape, try not to rub it down too hard??

    hope it helps.

  3. #3
    mixmastermace's Avatar
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    Re: What is the issue?

    Not too sure what you mean by "rubbing it down." It's the lightest stick tape available and I put it on just enough to stick. I figure there's some type of issue with the silver paint, almost as if it had a dusty finish as it was sprayed on that never corrected when it dried. But it's the same kind everyone else seems to use...

  4. #4
    Southern hunter's Avatar
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    Re: What is the issue?

    Initially, I'd say the Rustoleum is the problem. It's an enamel and has a hard, durable finish, so the other paints don't stick to it well. If it were me, I'd sand the Rustoleum off, reprime the helmet and use a silver from the same vendor as the other paints. Airbrushed paints have finely ground pigments so they will atomize (spray) properly. Basically, the Rustolem spray paint isn't playing well with others.
    Last edited by Southern hunter; Mar 26, 2008 at 7:51 PM.

  5. #5
    stormtrooperguy's Avatar
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    Re: What is the issue?

    mixing brands / types is tough. most paints from one company stick to each other reasonably well. mixing brands can have wacky effects.

    i've also noticed that the rustoleum silver tends to leave a powdery finish, which will cause paint to pull right up.

    if you let the silver dry, then rinse it / wipe it all down that can help too.

  6. #6
    I helped at SDCC '08 GCNgamer128's Avatar
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    Re: What is the issue?

    Would it help to put a clearcoat over the silver then paint the rustoleum on top of that?

  7. #7
    suspect86's Avatar
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    Re: What is the issue?

    GCNgamer128 said: View Post
    Would it help to put a clearcoat over the silver then paint the rustoleum on top of that?
    Clearcoat it, but use a gloss clearcoat. This will seal the finish and prevent the paint from peeling. The only problem is the silver paint will look wet rather than shiny like it should. Taking away from the authentic metal look. This is a problem I have fought with since I started my Fett. I have found no real solution to this problem, only compromise.
    I've even tried painting over Rub N' Buff. That doesn't work either because the paint has nothing to grab on to. It just drips off in thin layers and looks like poo.
    For these reasons I've considered trying topical painting rather than layering.
    From what I've seen on this site, if you have the patience you can make it look great.

  8. #8
    saint_nasty's Avatar
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    Re: What is the issue?

    i've been using plastikote metallic silver pretty successfully. but i mist it with krylon black while it's still wet then mist it again with the silver. it gives the silver a brushed aluminum look and it gives your next layer of paint something to grab to. i'm planning on doing that between all the layers of my armor to give it a built up weathering effect so i'll have less to do when i have all the colors down.

  9. #9

    Member Since
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    Re: What is the issue?

    I would also try an new tape. Look for Tamaya masking tape, it is yellow and is supper low tack and comes as small as 6mm wide.

  10. #10
    mixmastermace's Avatar
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    Re: What is the issue?

    So it seems the general consensus is to use a silver that is the same as the other paint I'm using? (Testors chrome for example) and that will allow the paints to play nice between each other? And maybe some Tamaya tape as well.

  11. #11

    Member Since
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    Re: What is the issue?

    The blue painters tape works fine, just apply a clear coat after each coat of paint. I use Krylon Matte Finish.

  12. #12
    mixmastermace's Avatar
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    Re: What is the issue?

    I always thought it was kind of a "No" to clear coat if you plan on putting more color on top of it, as the color won't stick to the top of the clear coat. Is that not the case?

  13. #13

    Member Since
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    Perryville, MO
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    Re: What is the issue?

    Your clear overcoats give a little more bite to the next layers. It seems the color coats have a hard time adhering to the metallic particles in the paint. I use future to overcoat my layers and then a final dullcote at the end.

  14. #14
    mixmastermace's Avatar
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    Re: What is the issue?

    Oh, I get it. I could probably just clearcoat all of my pieces that have been sprayed silver so far and not have to sand those down. That won't save the helmet from the sanding but oh well. Thanks for the good ideas guys!

  15. #15
    TD2253's Avatar
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    Re: What is the issue?

    Hi Mason, the same thing happened to my helmet paint job. I used the same Rustoleum Bright Coat Aluminum paint and after applying the Krylon Italian Olive Green, it came right off with the tape. So I will try what everyone recommended to do with the clear coat, I have some matte finish here that I can use and hopefully that will do the trick. Thanks for starting this thread dude and thanks for your advice out there guys!

    -Gene

  16. #16
    Foxbatkllr's Avatar
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    Re: What is the issue?

    It sounds like the Rustoleum aluminum paint is the problem in both cases. It doesn't seem to like having other paints on top of it.

  17. #17
    Satxer's Avatar
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    Re: What is the issue?

    I've had nothing but problems when it comes to rustoleum silver paints. I sprayed my shin tools with either the chrome or aluminum and the results were very bad...it litterally was melting.

    I use Krylon silvers over every other paint brand because I never have problems with it. I even sprayed different brand spray paints on it and had no issues.

  18. #18

    Member Since
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    Re: What is the issue?

    Did you use enamel paints? If you used acrylics (polly scale) it could be your problem.

  19. #19
    mixmastermace's Avatar
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    Re: What is the issue?

    It sure was acrylics Lee. The issues were with the soviet green and c&o enchantment blue peeling up off the silver. But those colors just don't come in enamel. I have sprayed kelly green enamel on the back of the helmet and it seems much more solid. I'll have to do a small test to see if the tape can lift off the enamel on the back. I've also applied the reefer yellow to both knees and one shoulder. Those don't need to be taped off in order to paint, but I'll probably test them too out of curiosity...

  20. #20

    Member Since
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    Re: What is the issue?

    The acrylics are a definite issue. You can't use any tape with these and if you do you have to proceed with great caution. Doesn't mean you did anything wrong just your approach has to be completely different with these. You can get fantastic results just keep listening to all the advice the others are providing in here it's good stuff. Hang in there you'll be ok just going to take some added patience with the acrylics.

    Lee

  21. #21
    mixmastermace's Avatar
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    Re: What is the issue?

    Ok, another question.

    What type of clear coat should I be using to hold the silver layer? Would an enamel clear coat be best?

    And on that subject, a friend of mine wants me not to sand down the work I've done on the dome and put a clear coat on top of the green before moving on. Basically, the dome has this on it: (from inside to out)

    -primer
    -rustoleum silver
    -soviet green (acrylic)
    -my friend is suggesting a clear coat here before moving on because we're afraid of the tape pulling it up. But even if I clear coat it, wouldn't tape still pull it up if it's the silver that's unstable?

    And for that matter, how do I "mask" areas off without tape?

  22. #22
    TD2253's Avatar
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    Re: What is the issue?

    Mason, I tried to clear coat my Rustoleum aluminum and then after it completely dried, I spray tested a spot with some Krylon Italian Olive Green. The concentrated area with the italian olive green was solid but around the over-spray, the paint peeled off with the clear coat. So, from that observation, make sure you evenly apply your clear coat with enough coverage for a strong adhesion...I think this is were I failed.


  23. #23

    Member Since
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    Re: What is the issue?

    Mason,

    I can honestly say that I do not ever have any more problems with paint since I started clear coating with Krylon Matte Finish.

    I use it with all brands of rattle cans, PS acrylics and Floquil enamels.

    I spray a coat of paint, let dry for 30-40 minutes and then apply the Matte Finish, its dries in less than 20 minutes and its ready for the next color. If your paint is not drying within an hours time you are spraying it too thick.
    This technique has worked flawless.

    The only masking methods I use are blue painters tape and Liquid mask. I apply the Matte Finish before I start removing any mask.

  24. #24
    Gypsyboy's Avatar
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    Re: What is the issue?

    The matt finish is good, like the guys say, but it also means more work for you - considering how many layers of colour there are on Fett's noggin. If you're using Testor's paint for the colors (or similar kinds of paint) then maybe just use Testor's silver spray for your base. I went through the same "learning experience" with my Fett lid. It's currently sitting aside waiting for a fresh new start on the paint job because I used a spray silver for the base, and tried to paint it with acrylics. The adhesion is OK, but I can tell it will not last for very long before it starts to get more scratched off areas than it should have.

  25. #25
    mixmastermace's Avatar
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    Re: What is the issue?

    TAPE

    matte finish
    acrylic green
    rustoleum silver (the layer with the powdery issue)
    primer

    Will the tape still pull off the green layer with the layers in this order? If it won't, it will allow me to save sanding time.

    I just feel like, if the silver is the unstable layer, everything on top of it could be pulled off with tape. A buddy of mine insists this isn't the case, and that I'll be fine. I think I just need to sand it all down and start fresh.

    And if memory serves, Krylon Clear coat is an acrylic paint, wouldn't it pull right off the silver layer just like my green acrylic is now?
    Last edited by mixmastermace; Mar 28, 2008 at 4:28 PM.

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