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  1. intwenothor's Avatar
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    Apr 1, 2014, 11:40 AM - Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made? #26

    Quote Syper said: View Post


    Opinions are great and even helpful as possible search points but if you are in camps 1 or 3 please feel free to present your evidence for all to see!


    The ultimate argument! Someday it'll show up.
  2. Syper's Avatar
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    Apr 1, 2014, 1:39 PM - Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made? #27

    Quote intwenothor said: View Post
    The ultimate argument! Someday it'll show up.
    I hear you Brother, but my fear is that someone will find a vintage connector, drill a hole in it and call it a found part, proving nothing to no one.
    BTW one day God will return, aliens will land on earth and pigs will fly, one day right lol just kidding Mr.


    Instead of duck hunting we could go flying pig hunting, that would be the ****.

    PP2 or die trying!!!
  3. intwenothor's Avatar
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    Apr 2, 2014, 5:33 PM - Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made? #28

    Quote Syper said: View Post


    I hear you Brother, but my fear is that someone will find a vintage connector, drill a hole in it and call it a found part, proving nothing to no one.
    BTW one day God will return, aliens will land on earth and pigs will fly, one day right lol just kidding Mr.


    Instead of duck hunting we could go flying pig hunting, that would be the ****.

    PP2 or die trying!!!
    It would be sad if someone were to simply cheat. I have no time for such things myself.

    Er........ pigs can fly... you do know that right?

    Anyway in the mean time Mojo still makes his replica bordens.
  4. TheCaptain's Avatar
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    Apr 3, 2014, 11:39 AM - Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made? #29

    Quote Syper said: View Post




    1.Those who believe the part was an unaltered three hole dental connector.
    2.Those who believe the part was an altered two hole connector.
    3.Those who believe the part was machined (created from stock).
    4. Those who believe the part was an altered three hole dental connector.

    That's me.
    I think it was a found part, turned down on the lathe, and the holes deburred.
    The chamfer around the holes is clearly uneven, as if cleaned out by hand after machining.

    There has to be some kind of Borden piece that has 3 holes that are sized differently.
    Otherwise, why would they sell gaskets that match the holes?
    Click image for larger version. 

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  5. animefan's Avatar
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    Apr 3, 2014, 10:29 PM - Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made? #30

    Quote TheCaptain said: View Post
    4. Those who believe the part was an altered three hole dental connector.

    That's me.
    I think it was a found part, turned down on the lathe, and the holes deburred.
    The chamfer around the holes is clearly uneven, as if cleaned out by hand after machining.

    There has to be some kind of Borden piece that has 3 holes that are sized differently.
    Otherwise, why would they sell gaskets that match the holes?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Hey did you find those? Ive never seen gaskets before. Maybe a step in the right direction though they probably go with the reverse 3 hole borden.
  6. TheCaptain's Avatar
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    Apr 3, 2014, 10:31 PM - Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made? #31

    I saw them on eBay this time
    I'd seen them in the past, but disregarded them since they aren't metal

    You can search eBay for words like "Borden ,gasket, autoclave "

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  7. bcurtis's Avatar
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    Apr 3, 2014, 11:48 PM - Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made? #32

    Saw this on ebay: 2 3 Hole Handpiece to 4 Hole Tubing Adapter for High and Low Speed Handpieces | eBay

    If it was cut, the holes would be in the correct position. Not sure about dimensions etc. What do you think? Worth a look?
  8. Syper's Avatar
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    Apr 3, 2014, 11:49 PM - Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made? #33

    Yeah today these gaskets go between the dental handpiece end and the connector. I'll have a better explanation tomorrow, sorry I did a fare amount or research with pics and all but forgot it at work those gaskets are a modern day creation and again I'll have more information soon


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Syper; Apr 4, 2014 at 9:41 AM.
  9. Syper's Avatar
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    Apr 4, 2014, 10:01 AM - Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made? #34

    Quote TheCaptain said: View Post
    I think it was a found part, turned down on the lathe, and the holes deburred.
    The chamfer around the holes is clearly uneven, as if cleaned out by hand after machining.
    I understand where you’re comingJ from but I have a lathe and if I were to take a three hole connector what am I "turning" ? are you suggesting that one of the smaller holes could have been enlarged to the correct movie Fett appearance? If one was to do this, enlarge one of the holes, that hole would now be too close to the outer edge of the connector to look correct.

    Quote TheCaptain said: View Post
    There has to be some kind of Borden piece that has 3 holes that are sized differently.
    Otherwise, why would they sell gaskets that match the holes?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yes these look correct but one must keep in mind that the gaskets go over the metal tubes that protrude out of the back end of the handpiece. Those tubes are about a quarter of an inch long and feed into a connector or can be attachecd to and adaptor, then connected to the connector of your choice.
    .
  10. Syper's Avatar
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    Apr 4, 2014, 10:18 AM - Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made? #35

    Quote bcurtis said: View Post
    Saw this on ebay: 2 3 Hole Handpiece to 4 Hole Tubing Adapter for High and Low Speed Handpieces | eBay

    If it was cut, the holes would be in the correct position. Not sure about dimensions etc. What do you think? Worth a look?
    Let’s not get to excited here I know I sure did years back when I came across these examples above. here’s a pics everyone loves but its incorrect.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yes, could you cut it and turn it over to look close to correct, sure. Would it look like the movie referance photo's on the left if it were turned over....NO
    Click image for larger version. 

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  11. TheCaptain's Avatar
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    Apr 4, 2014, 10:50 AM - Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made? #36

    Quote Syper said: View Post
    I understand where you’re comingJ from but I have a lathe and if I were to take a three hole connector what am I "turning" ?
    You are turning the piece down to remove all of the barbs and also the collar.
    To make this:

    into this:

    Quote Syper said: View Post
    are you suggesting that one of the smaller holes could have been enlarged to the correct movie Fett appearance? If one was to do this, enlarge one of the holes, that hole would now be too close to the outer edge of the connector to look correct.
    No, I'm not suggesting that one of the smaller holes could have been enlarged
    I'm saying that the holes themselves were roughly cleaned up, and the results are chamfers that are uneven around the holes (most noticeable around the large hole).


    Quote Syper said: View Post
    Yes these look correct but one must keep in mind that the gaskets go over the metal tubes that protrude out of the back end of the handpiece. Those tubes are about a quarter of an inch long and feed into a connector or can be attachecd to and adaptor, then connected to the connector of your choice.
    .
    I'm not sure what information you are conveying here.
  12. Syper's Avatar
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    Apr 4, 2014, 11:35 AM - Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made? #37

    Dental Handpiece with light blue gasket on the end over the metal tubs.
    Attachment 75713
    Dental gaskets
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Dental Adapter (if needed, most often to convert say a 3 hole connection to a 4 hole hose)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Dental Connector (most often these connections are on the hose or line. I believe the dental connector was used on the helmets

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Dental hose / older handpiece units included a hose with connectors on both ends
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Attached Images Attached Images
  13. TheCaptain's Avatar
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    Apr 4, 2014, 12:00 PM - Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made? #38

    I wasn't saying the gasket is what was used.
    I'm saying the gaskets have different sized holes for a reason- because the correspond to the 3 different sized prongs on the equipment.
    which would lead me to the conclusion that the "found part" has 3 different sized holes.



    Quote Syper said: View Post
    Let’s not get to excited here I know I sure did years back when I came across these examples above. here’s a pics everyone loves but its incorrect.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yes, could you cut it and turn it over to look close to correct, sure. Would it look like the movie referance photo's on the left if it were turned over....NO
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Why would it not look like the reference pics?
  14. Syper's Avatar
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    Apr 4, 2014, 2:09 PM - Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made? #39

    Quote TheCaptain said: View Post
    You are turning the piece down to remove all of the barbs and also the collar.
    To make this.
    into this:

    Cool, i understand what your saying now. Sure you could mount this on a mini lathe chuck but anyone would be hard pressed about trying to cut anything that close to a turning high speed chuck. For that very same reason I opted to cut the back half that you’re talking about with a hacksaw while mounted to a bench top vise.

    Quote TheCaptain said: View Post
    No, I'm not suggesting that one of the smaller holes could have been enlarged
    I'm saying that the holes themselves were roughly cleaned up, and the results are chamfers that are uneven around the holes (most noticeable around the large hole).


    Ok got it, adding chamfers - no big deal correct. I have done this easily by hand with a drill bit myself, Yes. Here's the part that you may not be aware of, that photo showing what looks to be a three hole, with correct hole locations and correct sized holes was an inverted or mirrored image to show what it would look like if that same connector was cut then flipped around. I too thought that might be a possibility year ago, I hoped it could be
    Last edited by Syper; Apr 4, 2014 at 3:06 PM.
  15. Syper's Avatar
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    Apr 4, 2014, 2:49 PM - Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made? #40

    Quote TheCaptain said: View Post
    I wasn't saying the gasket is what was used.
    Yep, Understood

    Quote TheCaptain said: View Post
    I'm saying the gaskets have different sized holes for a reason- because the correspond to the 3 different sized prongs on the equipment.
    which would lead me to the conclusion that the "found part" has 3 different sized holes.
    Here again you are correct in your basic understanding of these items but a very important detail is not being factored in and this is not any fault of your own. there is a three pronged dental handpiece. There is also a three hole gasket , a three hole adaptor and even a three hole connector but the holes are not in the correct locations and most of those connectors have the wrong sized holes.
    Getting to the bottem of this issue will be the result of a combined effort on all of our parts but please keep In mind that the low hanging fruit has been picked years ago but that being said it’s great to have fresh eyes on this hunt
  16. TheCaptain's Avatar
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    Apr 4, 2014, 3:01 PM - Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made? #41

    yeah, I wasn't around back in the discovery days so maybe my child-like innocence will help LOL

    so, "we" don't believe the piece was cut on a lathe and flipped when they glued it in?
  17. Syper's Avatar
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    Apr 4, 2014, 3:25 PM - Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made? #42

    Quote TheCaptain said: View Post
    I wasn't around back in the discovery days so maybe my child-like innocence will help LOL
    Having fresh eye on a hunt is always welcome

    Quote TheCaptain said: View Post
    so, "we" don't believe the piece was cut on a lathe and flipped when they glued it in?

    well there are some folks who are in what i am calling camp 3 "Those who believe the part was machined (created from stock)" who feel that way.

    Camp 1, people who believe this dental piece was an unaltered known part, easy to place / install on the helmet. what was easiest to do for the builders
    Camp 2, people who believe more likely that the builders altered a known part, nothing to complicated vise down, drill one hole - done.
    Camp 3, Those who believe the part was machined (created from stock). too hard time consuming, imo
  18. Apr 4, 2014, 7:28 PM - Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made? #43

    This is an awesome discussion


    im im not sure what camp I'm in but I'd tend to agree with the one point of why would they drill a third hole in it on such a tiny part...why not leave it with 2 holes. Although the third hole can be added with ease as syper showed us, the question to me is why? Why bother...you can't even see it on screen that well, if at all .


    other than that, I think everyone has some valid thoughts....love these discussions!
  19. Jc27's Avatar
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    Apr 4, 2014, 7:35 PM - Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made? #44

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    While I'm no expert concerning found parts, slave1pilot mentioned to me that when he did a run a while back he found some that had the correct sized holes. He also mentioned that he was able to turn them on a lathe as well.
    My opinion is that they are a found part with the three holes, but like I mentioned, I am no expert.
  20. Syper's Avatar
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    Apr 4, 2014, 8:15 PM - Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made? #45

    Lol I'm with you Mr I'm not an expert on any subject matter trust me.

    I would implore anyone who thinks they can just put a dental connector in a lathe and tuned it to please give it a shot for yourself.

    JC27, your first pick as I'm sure you now understand, is a three hole connector but the small hole is on the wrong side. This could be fixed but mounting those small connectors on evan a mini lathe would be dangerous and not worth it. I have tried both methods with the later being a hacksaw and hands down mounting the connector on a vise then cutting the back half off is way more convenant. After the cut you could use a grinder to even out your cut then a file to smooth it out a bit, flip it over and use a metallic paint to finish it.


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  21. Peregrinus's Avatar
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    Apr 5, 2014, 4:57 PM - Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made? #46

    I have a thought... The three-prong "male" end of the fitting, from the handpiece. Might they have cut the back end off that -- the bit behind the collar, maybe intending to use the pronged base as a plant-on greeblie for something, and had that straight cylindrical remnant left over... and then sawed 1/16" slices off that (and flipped those) to glue onto the cheek? I don't know if they would have done just one on the initial sculpt, and then it was a cast detail in the ones we know, or glued individual slices on all six helmets after they were cast, taking some care to position them the same. Maybe there was a feature that was part of the initial sculpt that they ended up not liking and opted to cover it up with this infernally frustrating bit.

    The thing I notice is that we have some nice close-up pictures o the inside of the right cheek of the Pre-Pro 2 specifically, from when it was being molded by/for Don Post. Yeah, there's tape covering that area, holding the visor in place, but there's no bump that would be the inside of the connector if it had any depth to it.

    I need to check, but that three-prong cluster looks familiar, and I'm now going to be scouring the first couple movies looking for where that might have been used...

    --Jonah
  22. Member Since
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    Apr 7, 2014, 5:40 PM - Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made? #47

    That's a lot of searching and research for the part. I just drilled a couple holes in some metal stock I had.
  23. bcurtis's Avatar
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    Apr 7, 2014, 5:52 PM - Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made? #48

    For many of us, the hunt for the found parts is just as, if not more, exciting and rewarding as the overall costume itself.
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    Apr 7, 2014, 9:41 PM - Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made? #49

    That's true. There is that sort of "high" you get when you find something you are looking for. Thing is, I didn't know there was a part out there like that.

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