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Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

  1. #1
    Syper's Avatar
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    Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

    Hi Fett Brothers and Sisters,

    I have been obsessing over the Borden connector for far too long now. After researching this Dental piece to exhaustion, I have come to the conclusion that the Borden connector could in fact be a modified two hole connector. I have yet to see a real Borden FOUND three hole dental connector. There are pics of "a" three hole connector but is it the right one, was the third hole added no one knows and others have three holes but are not the correct size.
    Some time ago I found this real Borden hand piece with its original connector hose/line? Please hear me out then bash the hell out of me

    The piece if found is a Borden Airotor, stamped “51214”on the back. I was told that the hose, connector line came with the unit new. This sounded good to me, so I made the eBay purchase.
    _57-jpg

    Please check these picks out
    Here’s a pic RafelFett republished as a reference photo and the rest are mine.
    post-png
    img_3860-jpgimg_3861-jpgimg_3862-jpgimg_3863-jpgimg_3865-jpgimg_3868-jpgimg_3874-jpgimg_3877-jpgimg_3884-jpgimg_3886-jpgimg_3887-jpgimg_3888-jpg

    My two hole connector has the correct spiral cut from manufacturing as I see in movie reference photos.
    I believe I can cut both ends off then place the connector in my mini lath and add the third hole in the correct spots.

    One post years ago talked about adding a third hole to a two hole connector then flipping it over to revile the correct brass ESB look. This can also be done with the part I found.
    I’m ready to cannibalize / chop this connector to create my three hole Borden connector, here goes nothing.
    OK cuts made third hole added.
    img_3989-jpgimg_3994-jpgimg_3991-jpgimg_3999-jpgimg_4002-jpg

    Here's the brass side. I found something interesting, the second hole has an angel to it from outside-low to inside-high.
    img_4007-jpgimg_4009-jpgimg_4010-jpgimg_4011-jpg

    Because my Borden three hole connector now looks correct is it more likely then not that they may have just added a third hole? i say yes, without someone coming forward who actually worked on the helmet at the time SW came out, I’m not sure how we can confirm this. We now know that real found parts were “turned” or modified i.e. the J.A. Michell toe spike parts, why not the Borden connector? Would it be out of the realm of possibility that the Borden connector was modified too?
    I’m hoping to one day call this part, FOUND! But it has to be a real Borden two hole /Modified part to be considered a real Found part in my opinion. Maybe I’m getting ahead of myself hear. I look forward to your thoughts, please chime in.

    (=Syper=)
    Last edited by Syper; Mar 28, 2014 at 4:31 PM.

  2. #2
    RafalFett's Avatar
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    Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

    Interesting read and great result with the borden! But I don't think they bothered to add the 3rd hole, I can't find a plausible reason to do such a thing, especially with a piece that small.

  3. #3
    Syper's Avatar
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    Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

    RafalFett said: View Post
    I don't think they bothered to add the 3rd hole,.
    No bother at all, turns out I didn’t even need any fancy tools. I was planning on using my mini lath but I couldn’t secure the connector down properly. I ended up placing the connector in a vice then adding the third hole with a drill press. This process took me all of five minutes, tops. Another point I would make, look at all the many details that go into building a Fett helmet, in comparison drilling one tiny hole is nothing. Funny thing is that the “reason” could be as simple as “it looked cool” or they just wanted to add more details.

    RafalFett said: View Post
    I can't find a plausible reason to do such a thing, especially with a piece that small.
    After four years of searching eBay three times a day I found a real Glenross dental expansion tool and its now on my MOW PP2 Gauntlets. As we now know today the Glenross dental expansion tool was quickly discontinued due to the metallic taste it left in patients mouth, more likely than not most were simply thrown away, point is it's a very very rare item to find. With regards to a handpiece connector, leaving “Glenross” out of this equation. Every type of handpiece has a hose with two connectors on it, wouldn’t it stand to reason that over the many years since the movie, and countless Boba builders that someone would have found the correct three hole connector by now? During my exhaustive search for something as small as the Glenross piece shouldn’t I have come across even one correct three hole connector, yet I did not.

    I go back to the question “Is it more likely true than not true” That the third hole was added? I see 0% truth pointing to a correct mystery three hole connector being out there. On the other hand I was able to find a vintage Borden handpiece with its original hose / connectors and I was able to add a third hole in about five minutes.

    Again this is just my opinion, I have done years of research on this piece. I would also encourage everyone to
    please feel free to research this topic on your own.
    Last edited by Syper; Mar 28, 2014 at 4:37 PM.

  4. #4
    High Speed Low Drag Fett 4 Real's Avatar
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    Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

    They more then likely machined the part like other parts they machined...

  5. #5
    Syper's Avatar
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    Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

    Fett 4 Real said: View Post
    They more then likely machined the part like other parts they machined...
    That’s what I think most of us would have done today F4R but I believe at the time they had a combination of concept art and what I’m calling a box of goodies. This box of goodies had many dental parts, scuba items, small electronics, turn tables and much more. It’s my belief that while creating the Boba Fett helmet they pulled from this box, parts and pieces that they thought added cool details to the build and modified some parts as needed.

    The gauntlet dart is a great example of my “box of goodies” theory, in that situation we now know they pulled four of the J.A. Michell pivot sweep arm supports and thought they would make great darts. I have tried to make many small items on my mini lath and making a replica gauntlet dart will definitely test your patience. This I why I believe they incorporated some of these gathered items into the design of the final Fett helmets.

  6. #6

    Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

    I thought it was a found part? Ive seen pics with correct 3 hole pattern of an actual part.

  7. #7
    High Speed Low Drag Fett 4 Real's Avatar
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    Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

    Syper said: View Post
    That’s what I think most of us would have done today F4R but I believe at the time they had a combination of concept art and what I’m calling a box of goodies. This box of goodies had many dental parts, scuba items, small electronics, turn tables and much more. It’s my belief that while creating the Boba Fett helmet they pulled from this box, parts and pieces that they thought added cool details to the build and modified some parts as needed.

    The gauntlet dart is a great example of my “box of goodies” theory, in that situation we now know they pulled four of the J.A. Michell pivot sweep arm supports and thought they would make great darts. I have tried to make many small items on my mini lath and making a replica gauntlet dart will definitely test your patience. This I why I believe they incorporated some of these gathered items into the design of the final Fett helmets.
    You think they had what 12 turn tables? for the right gaunt? IDK....i mean its possible

  8. #8
    Syper's Avatar
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    Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

    J.A.Michell were some high end turn tables even then sure but they could of had parts and pieces from damaged units? I have four real darts on my gauntlets. Still possible to do.


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  9. #9
    Syper's Avatar
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    Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

    animefan said: View Post
    I thought it was a found part? I've seen pics with correct 3 hole pattern of an actual part.
    You speak of the photo on the top right correct?
    bordan-20tool-20interest1-jpg
    never confirmed and the small hole is on the wrong side. There are some people who believe that the connector on the top right could have been cut then turned around to expose the brass side but all the movie reference pics on the left show a silver shiny finish under paint and weathering.

  10. #10
    Jayvee's Avatar
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    Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

    What a great thread. I really enjoy these found part search threads, so much research and details for such little pieces = very cool.

    I certainly think your explanations are very plausible, but I guess so are some of the others with nothing likely to ever get truly confirmed. The one thing that does strike me though, is that in the pic just posted, the ESB, PP and ROTJ all have a three hole borden. And as your extensive searches have produced nada so far on the three hole version, the fact they were able to get not one but three - and possibly more for other versions of the helmet - leads me to believe they could very well indeed have been modified or machined..

  11. #11

    Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

    Syper said: View Post
    You speak of the photo on the top right correct?
    bordan-20tool-20interest1-jpg
    never confirmed and the small hole is on the wrong side. There are some people who believe that the connector on the top right could have been cut then turned around to expose the brass side but all the movie reference pics on the left show a silver shiny finish under paint and weathering.
    Yes correct. I also remember seeing a few other different. I found this one pic, but again would have to be flipped.
    3-hole-borden-2-jpg

  12. #12
    RafalFett's Avatar
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    Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

    Fett 4 Real said: View Post
    You think they had what 12 turn tables? for the right gaunt? IDK....i mean its possible
    Here is a quote from Michell's official site:

    [FONT=verdana]In the late 60’s, the company started to make parts for Transcriptors who subsequently re-located to the Michell premises. At this time, Michell were still supplying other local firms as well as working directly with the film studios making models and component parts for films such as Star Wars.[/FONT]

  13. #13
    High Speed Low Drag Fett 4 Real's Avatar
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    Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

    They WERENT from turn tables is my point...and that verifies it.

    And its possible they machined the borden and ears for that matter....

  14. #14
    Syper's Avatar
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    Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

    Yeah Brother we understand that the three hole connector is not a Michell part but the larger point being established is that while creating Fett's first helmet they also pulled and utilized small parts that had been collecting beforehand.

    Example: let's take the Glenross dental expansion part. There is no doubt in my mind that they created the left gauntlet then looked through their box of collected parts and pulled out the small brass part we all know today and simply glued it where they thought it looked cool.

    It is more likely they did the same thing when they pulled out the dental connector and thought, where would this look cool. Maybe as a mole/mic/transceiver/air, who knows

    I don't believe they would have machined a small metal part that could have already been in their collected part box. It's much faster to modify or alter a part you already have.


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  15. #15
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    Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

    I haven't researched this part like you have although I appreciate the hard work but the few items I have researched lead me to believe that items were generally unmodified. It is a bit of stretch for me to accept that an extra hole was drilled in a Borden. Broadly speaking I'm in agreement with Raf on this; the overwhelming evidence from the vast majority of props is they were simply cobbled together found parts and most likely there is a correct Borden out there that just hasn't been seen yet.

    In terms of the Michell parts I would be in agreement that there were not multiple turntables that were butchered in order to create props. Raf's short paste from the Michell website all but confirms it. Michell were actually making parts for Transcriptors originally (a seperate company). Michell then started manufacturing copies of transcriptors designs under licence and then introduced their first proper own models in '77. Everything before that is a Transciptors design. There was clearly a big box of Transcriptors/Michell parts and whenever something was needed then out it came.

    Great thread.

  16. #16
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    Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

    Someone should ask Brian Archer.
    There are machined parts on Fett from Elstree precision , and Michell labeled as "turnings" as well as custom metal parts from Norank, Arch Motor, George Block.

    Brian Archer put it all together and he was responsible for "1 dental "greebly"" on the helmet. If the part was custom made it seems odd to list it as such since nearly every other custom machined part has a maker listed.
    But by the same token if it was a found part it seems odd to vaguely list the cheek detail as a "greebly" when almost all the other parts listed have a more specific designation.

    I think its possible the cheek detail really is a found part. But nothing we have found comes very close. Syper I do love what you have done with the two hole one. Very nice!
    Maybe I can get Gino to stick something in the PP3 detail next time he is in the archives and see if that hole is angled or not. The ESB has too much gunk in it...
    Last edited by Keegan; Mar 29, 2014 at 2:22 PM. Reason: fixed an error

  17. #17
    High Speed Low Drag Fett 4 Real's Avatar
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    Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

    Keegan said: View Post
    Someone should ask Brian Archer.
    There are machined parts on Fett from Norank, and Michell labeled as "turnings" as well as custom metal parts from Elstree precision, Arch Motor, George Block.

    Brian Archer put it all together and he was responsible for "1 dental "greebly"" on the helmet. If the part was custom made it seems odd to list it as such since nearly every other custom machined part has a maker listed.
    But by the same token if it was a found part it seems odd to vaguely list the cheek detail as a "greebly" when almost all the other parts listed have a more specific designation.

    I think its possible the cheek detail really is a found part. But nothing we have found comes very close. Syper I do love what you have done with the two hole one. Very nice!
    Maybe I can get Gino to stick something in the PP3 detail next time he is in the archives and see if that hole is angled or not. The ESB has too much gunk in it...
    Very good thoughts.

  18. #18
    Syper's Avatar
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    Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

    This is turning into a great discussion! Very interesting. It is funny to me how we are all striving for accuracy on this one tinny part but at the time they put a **** load of glue that's even bleeding out of the holes


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  19. #19
    RafalFett's Avatar
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    Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

    The Supetrooper breakdown list says (just a few examples):

    Machined parts (ears and left gauntlet laser - or rocket) - Elstree Precision
    These were custom made using blueprints made by Norman Reynolds.

    Electronics and parts (gas gun, switches, plugs, lights and wiring) - Nick Allder
    Assembled using parts at his disposal.

    Detailed parts (Casio MQ-1 calculator, rangefinder parts, T-visor and some dental parts - except the dental press switch and 6 dental drills, which were purcased) - Brian Archer
    The fact that at most of these parts it doesn't say purchased it means that he had these at his disposal. For the 3 hole borden (or whatever it is) it says dental 'greebly' which I translate as dental thingy (this is an example of a piece that its name is not known by you, but you know where it is used).

  20. #20
    Syper's Avatar
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    Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

    RafalFett said: View Post
    For the 3 hole borden (or whatever it is) it says dental 'greebly' which I translate as dental thingy (this is an example of a piece that its name is not known by you, but you know where it is used).
    This is a great point Raf. Keegan mentions this in his post but has anyone ever attempt to contact these guys? Norman Reynolds, Nick Allder, Brian Archer and would Joe Johnson know this information? I wonder if these guys know about this community and if they would like to share their thoughts with us.

  21. #21
    intwenothor's Avatar
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    Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

    Syper said: View Post
    This is turning into a great discussion! Very interesting. It is funny to me how we are all striving for accuracy on this one tinny part but at the time they put a **** load of glue that's even bleeding out of the holes


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    I couldn't agree more. I know that the end build is the ultimate goal but the research phase has almost eclipsed it for me so that I legitimately find it pretty much as rewarding. When these new parts are revealed I find it really intriguing and the hunt for those known but rare real found parts is also very satisfying to me as well as trying to find new routes into getting them. I've even started hunting for parts for props and characters that don't really interest me that much; I just want to see what the parts are - weird!

    An equally bizarre truth is that I can't even remember the last time I watched a Star Wars film from start to finish! Great thread.

  22. #22

    Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

    I always thought it was what is, for example, item 121T on this site, same as is found in several other dental equipment suppliers' inventories...

    --Jonah

  23. #23
    Syper's Avatar
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    Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

    [FONT=Verdana]sadly it is not in your example from the link, the two small holes on that connector are the same size. I too have purchased those same connectors hoping they were correct at the time, but their not. [/FONT]
    borden-jpg
    [FONT=Verdana]At that point I set off on a four year search that yielded not a single correct three hole connector but miraculously I was able to find the Glenross expansion piece that’s just a tad smaller that a dime.

    img_3676-jpg
    [/FONT]

  24. #24
    Syper's Avatar
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    Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

    [FONT=Calibri]As most of you should have gathered by now I only want what is best for this community. I personally don’t have to be the one who finds or gets credit for finding found parts. I just want to put real parts on my build. My larger goal is to one day claim that my Pre-Pro 2 build features all known found parts. I do understand that this may be a lifelong quest that may very well result in one day having my son (Luke) don this pp2 suit at a Comic-con.[/FONT]

    There seems to be three camps here. Note: the use of the word “altered” is only referring to adding a third hole. In both selections 1 and 2 it is widely understood that the back half of any connector would have been cut off or removed.


    1. Those who believe the part was an unaltered three hole dental connector.
    2. Those who believe the part was an altered two hole connector.
    3. Those who believe the part was machined (created from stock).


    This is a friendlyJ conversation where we all ultimately want the same thing, to have the correct piece for our community. I first started out in camp 1, but after four years of searching I have yielded not even 1% of evidence. Now I’m in camp 2 and I presented the above evidence. If you find a very very rare two hole Borden connector you could add the correct sized third hole in about five minutes.

    Opinions are great and even helpful as possible search points but if you are in camps 1 or 3 please feel free to present your evidence for all to see!

    P.S. i care cause i love the **** out of Boba Fett. PP2 Rules!!!
    Last edited by Syper; Mar 31, 2014 at 7:32 PM.

  25. #25

    Re: Three Hole Borden Connector, Myth, Mystery or Made?

    I'm going to go for either older-style 3-hole connector that is no longer made or 2-hole connector that had a third hole drilled in it for some reason, although it doesn't seem likely they'd bother with doin something like that. On the other hand, it didn't seem likely that they'd take three pieces of the model airplane radial engine cylinder half, chop them up, flip one around, and glue them back together at odd angles to make the heat sink on the front of Han's blaster, rather than just glue two together end-to-end and chop down where needed, but that's apparently exactly what they did, so... *shrug*

    --Jonah

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