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  1. AFettFullofDollars's Avatar
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    Feb 15, 2005, 8:01 PM - SHAMELESS RECAST #1

    I know how sensitive a subject this is, but I had to share this experience with you all. I am currently working on a paint job for a friend of mine who had acquired a fiberglass Fett Bucket. While cutting out the T-visor and doing other prep work I noticed something extremely 'funny' in the gel coat. I asked my friend where he got the helmet and he got kind of vague. Well, I told him that it had been a Marrow_Sun Enigma in a past life (sorry Jordy). He asked me how I knew this. I told him that I had a Marrow_Sun before and I would recognize the craftsmanship anywhere. The shameless part is that the fellow who recast this helmet didn't even bother to sand down the previous paint job that was on the bucket before he cast it. It had obviously been painted in an Empire paint scheme because all of the Signature dings and scratches where molded onto the gelcoat!!???
  2. BobaFettish's Avatar
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    Feb 15, 2005, 9:06 PM - Re: SHAMELESS RECAST #2

    Pics????
  3. AFettFullofDollars's Avatar
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    Feb 15, 2005, 9:13 PM - Re: SHAMELESS RECAST #3

    I'll try to take some pics in the next day or two. I'll have to borrow my brothers digital camera and I'm not sure if what I am talking about will even show up on camera. You have to hold the helmet in the light 'just right' to see the individual scratches and scrapes.
  4. BobaFettSlave_1's Avatar
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    Feb 15, 2005, 9:23 PM - Re: SHAMELESS RECAST #4

    It's to bad that things like this have to happen
  5. MARROW SUN's Avatar
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    Feb 16, 2005, 3:08 AM - Re: SHAMELESS RECAST #5

    Man that's 2 today!
  6. BobaFettSlave_1's Avatar
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    Feb 16, 2005, 4:56 AM - Re: SHAMELESS RECAST #6

    ????????? some one else coppied one of your helm' s?
  7. Prymer13's Avatar
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    Feb 16, 2005, 7:25 AM - Re: SHAMELESS RECAST #7

    BobaFettSlave 1: It happens more often than you'd think...
  8. BobaFettSlave_1's Avatar
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    Feb 16, 2005, 10:05 AM - Re: SHAMELESS RECAST #8

    I think It just sucks that people have to take credit for somthing some one else put hard time and effert in to
  9. E2K13's Avatar
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    Feb 16, 2005, 10:15 AM - Re: SHAMELESS RECAST #9

    I would post something but this topic angers me enough to keep silent.
  10. Mr Fett's Avatar
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    Feb 16, 2005, 11:10 PM - Re: SHAMELESS RECAST #10

    Quote AFettFullofDollars said:
    It had obviously been painted in an Empire paint scheme because all of the Signature dings and scratches where molded onto the gelcoat!!
    Well on a lighter note, at least this would make it easier to paint. Kinda like 'connect the dots'.
  11. Helmetman's Avatar
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    Feb 17, 2005, 1:47 AM - Re: SHAMELESS RECAST #11

    Whilst I don't wish to start another silly 'flame war'...

    Define 'recast' for me?

    Marrow Sun didn't sculpt his helmet. He bought one on Ebay, fiddled with it a bit, sanded it, then poured silicone over it.

    Is that not 'recasting'?

    For the record, I do not agree with 'recasting' and would be gutted if someone blatantly copied my work.

    But MS can't be totally angry about this, he didn't sculpt it from scratch.

    I mean no offence guys, just pointing this out.
  12. MARROW SUN's Avatar
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    Feb 17, 2005, 4:13 AM - Re: SHAMELESS RECAST #12

    Perhaps you should divert a little attention to the CoC, it will lay it out for you.

    I mean no offence, just pointing this out.


    I was talking with Eddie earlier tonight about classic TV shows from our youth. Two of the shows we chatted about were the Muppets and Fraggle Rock! Love that Madam Trash Heap! And how can we ever forget Pigs in Space! What did those two shows have in common? Puppets.[

    I mean no offence, just pointing this out.




    Against better judgment, I probably should just be silent. Itís all too obvious that your intention since joining the community has been to antagonize me. I find it so extraordinary that someone so recent to this forum has monitored my history so vigilantly. I donít care how long youíve been a lurker before joining; you donít know me or anything about me despite the candor of your inquisitions and allegations.

    I mean no offence, just pointing this out.




    I never had the opportunity to respond to your other thread about me, but just to point out an error in the proficiency of your detective skills, the helmet I won from FP was not a MSH2 but a DP DLX (didnít I already tell you that?!) What was my rationale for this purchase? Not that itís at all your business, but I desired to secure the auction because it was, A) signed by JB. And, B) It was FPís first attempt at a Boba Helmet. Both reasons hold merit and makes the helmet a great addition to my collection. Like I said earlier you take far too much concern in my matters.
    I mean no offence, just pointing this out.




    Now Iím certain this thread will be shut down soon as these exchanges bring nothing positive to the community, and Iíll probably be reprimanded for my commentary. How clever of you to dupe me into another Flame war, ďYou got me!Ē Itís not as though youíve anything to lose, you can always create a different shell account.

    I mean no offence, just pointing this out.
    Last edited by MARROW SUN; Feb 17, 2005 at 4:16 AM. Reason: size
  13. BobaFettish's Avatar
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    Feb 17, 2005, 9:42 AM - Re: SHAMELESS RECAST #13

    No need to lock the thread. Everyone is behaving, so far.
  14. mandalore697's Avatar
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    Feb 17, 2005, 9:51 AM - Re: SHAMELESS RECAST #14

    Lets calm it down folks! Recasting sucks ass, but I don't think anyone should go pointing fingers without hard evidence, nor should they do so in public. If you have beef, shouldn't we do it privately?


    Just my thoughts, no offense intended to anyone

    Dan
  15. Spideyfett is offline Spideyfett
    Feb 17, 2005, 10:25 AM - Re: SHAMELESS RECAST #15

    Quote MARROW SUN said:



    Now Iím certain this thread will be shut down soon as these exchanges bring nothing positive to the community, and Iíll probably be reprimanded for my commentary. How clever of you to dupe me into another Flame war, ďYou got me!Ē Itís not as though youíve anything to lose, you can always create a different shell account.

    I mean no offence, just pointing this out.
    AAAHH "Shell accounts", good one Marrow... I think you hit it right on the spot.
    I do agree with you that this "Helmetman" does like to start exchanges, especially with you Marrow.
    Now why is that ???..... Interesting....
    I mean "No Offence" Helmetman.
  16. Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
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    Feb 17, 2005, 10:51 AM - Re: SHAMELESS RECAST #16

    Instead of clumsy analogies and Utilitarian philosophy, common sense and respect go a long way toward resolving recasting disputes. But first, a brief fact-check of the mystery helmets.

    • For the sake of brevity, both Sarge's helmet and Marrow Sun's helmet will be referred as "Mystery Helmets"
    • There are 3 known, original "Mystery Helmets"
    • The first "Mystery Helmet" was given to a prop-maker in the early 80's
    • The other two "Mystery Helmets" were purchased after 1990 by Sergeant Fang and Marrow_Sun, respectively.
    • While ample evidence suggests the "Mystery Helmets" were Don Post prototype helmets, there is no 100% conclusive proof of the original
      owner or sculptor.


    The lack of an original, traceable owner/artist places ORIGINAL "Mystery Helmets" alongside Don Post helmets in regard to recasting tolerance. HOWEVER, here is the caveat: both Sergeant Fang and Marrow Sun did ample clean-up and restoration to their "Mystery Helmets." That fact now gives their respective "Mystery Helmets" a traceable origin and
    artisan.

    While we do not condone Marrow Sun or Sgt Fang's actions any more than we would someone recasting a Don Post helmet, we have grandfathered their helmets in as legit recasts. Therefore in compliance with the Code of Conduct: " A member found selling/trading (either in the Cargo Hold or any other online auction or outlet) items recast from another member will face permanent banishment from TDH." For example, if a member buys a Don Post Dlx and recasts it, they are in the clear. However, if they recast ANOTHER MEMBER'S CASTING of a Don Post Dlx they face permanent banishment. The same applies to the Mystery Helmet.

    This is not a perfect solution and yes there is grey area, but we feel this is the best way for us to moderate recasting disputes.
  17. Spideyfett is offline Spideyfett
    Feb 17, 2005, 10:59 AM - Re: SHAMELESS RECAST #17

    Could not have said it better myself.......:thumbup :thumbup :thumbup
  18. cal196's Avatar
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    Feb 17, 2005, 11:00 AM - Re: SHAMELESS RECAST #18

    Thats where all the confusion comes in, if you like a mystery helmet and wanted to improve it, How do you know its an original cast of a mystery helmet and not one someone has already done something to.
  19. Spideyfett is offline Spideyfett
    Feb 17, 2005, 11:22 AM - Re: SHAMELESS RECAST #19

    Quote cal196 said:
    Thats where all the confusion comes in, if you like a mystery helmet and wanted to improve it, How do you know its an original cast of a mystery helmet and not one someone has already done something to.
    Well to me the way it's presented by The DENT is : Unless you are Marrow Sun or Sgt Fang, that actually have the original Mystery Helmets, then you would simply be Improving a "RECAST RESTORED" Marrow Sun or Sgt Fang helmet....Right?
    And if that's the case , it makes perfect sense. Again at least to me anyway.


    I don't think that helped you CAL196...sorry.
    Last edited by Spideyfett; Feb 17, 2005 at 11:31 AM.
  20. Helmetman's Avatar
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    Feb 17, 2005, 11:31 AM - Re: SHAMELESS RECAST #20

    MS. I didn't mean to dupe you into anything dude.

    And I don't wish to antagonise you.

    I was merely making a comment in a respectful manner.

    I myself make stuff. For example. I'm currently making C3PO heads. As mentioned in the other thread, I'm not sure of the 'origin' of the moulds.

    I suspect it's a prop.

    Now, I didn't make the original piece. Although I have put ALOT of time and effort into cleaning it up and getting it right, as I'm sure you did on your lid.

    However, if at some point down the line, a blatant 'recast' of one of my Threepios ends up on Ebay (meaning they have done nothing but pour a bit of rubber on it)....

    I would be annoyed (as you probably are).

    BUT, what grounds do I have to be annoyed?

    I didn't sculpt the original piece, I merely took it and changed it a bit.

    That's all I'm saying guys.

    If someone 'creates' something from nothing and it gets ripped off. Yeah man, that sucks big time.

    If someone 'creates' something from an existing piece and it gets duped, you gotta roll with the punches.

    That's the last from me on the subject of recasting.

    And what's this talk of muppets & puppets bro?

    If you are suggesting there is something underhanded going on with my ID here. You couldn't be more wrong.

    Less of the accusations please. I'm a decent guy!

    I like muppets.....
  21. ImaClone?'s Avatar
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    Feb 17, 2005, 11:50 AM - Re: SHAMELESS RECAST #21

    Well if someone does not have the stomach for this hobby and all that comes with it maybe they should find a new hobby.

    It's like a professional surfer complaining all the time about sharks. Well you're in the ocean looking like food dumb ass.

    Its gonna happen if you distribute items of copyrights you probably dont own.

    Everyone in this forum (who collects/costumes) owns at least 1 recast and if you say you do not .......well.

    I say it is good to call out a recaster but to split hairs and whine and start a cat fight is silly. If you own the rights to the peice than sue his ass, if not bring it to light here. But it should not be the axis of a person or a message boards life.

    I am not speaking to anyone in particular, this is a general rant.

    And everyone knows that Muppets are a recast of Puppets!
  22. Helmetman's Avatar
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    Feb 17, 2005, 12:02 PM - Re: SHAMELESS RECAST #22

    Fair point man.

    If you base your work on something that already exists, you ain't got too much room to rant.

    End of line.
  23. BobaFettish's Avatar
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    Feb 17, 2005, 12:12 PM - Re: SHAMELESS RECAST #23

    Quote cal196 said:
    Thats where all the confusion comes in, if you like a mystery helmet and wanted to improve it, How do you know its an original cast of a mystery helmet and not one someone has already done something to.
    Improving it for your own use is just that, improving it for your own use. Improving it, making copies of it, and (here is the important part) selling it to others is where the problem lies. Let me try to simplify this.

    If person A was making helmets and selling them for say $200, and person B bought one and fixes something they don't like about it. Then person B makes copies of it and begins to market them to the same audience as person A. Person A is now out any potential sales they may have had. Get it? Person B profits from person A's work. Recasting in a nutshell.
  24. Spideyfett is offline Spideyfett
    Feb 17, 2005, 12:20 PM - Re: SHAMELESS RECAST #24

    Quote cal196 said:
    Thats where all the confusion comes in, if you like a mystery helmet and wanted to improve it, How do you know its an original cast of a mystery helmet and not one someone has already done something to.
    I mean what BobaFettish said..."yeah, that's the ticket".
  25. BobaFettish's Avatar
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    Feb 17, 2005, 12:31 PM - Re: SHAMELESS RECAST #25

    As to why there is a gray area for DP/licensed stuff, that is pretty simple. With the exception of Master Replicas, no licensee (in most people's opinions) has ever made a quality, screen-accurate prop. Most are scaled down or mis-shapened. We, as costumers and collectors, strive for screen-accurate parts. To take something that they created (a lot of the time having the real deals for reference and still get it wrong) and improve upon it, knowing that their license has expired (DP lost theirs back in the '90s) is not taking business away from them. Does that justify it? No, but that is one for each to decide themselves.

    As for recasting "found parts" like Paterson tools, MQ-1s, and Webley's, those are fair game as they are obtainable. Now buying said copies from another member and copying it to sell is another story.

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