SHAMELESS RECAST

I know how sensitive a subject this is, but I had to share this experience with you all. I am currently working on a paint job for a friend of mine who had acquired a fiberglass Fett Bucket. While cutting out the T-visor and doing other prep work I noticed something extremely 'funny' in the gel coat. I asked my friend where he got the helmet and he got kind of vague. Well, I told him that it had been a Marrow_Sun Enigma in a past life (sorry Jordy). He asked me how I knew this. I told him that I had a Marrow_Sun before and I would recognize the craftsmanship anywhere. The shameless part is that the fellow who recast this helmet didn't even bother to sand down the previous paint job that was on the bucket before he cast it. It had obviously been painted in an Empire paint scheme because all of the Signature dings and scratches where molded onto the gelcoat!!???

Pics????

I'll try to take some pics in the next day or two. I'll have to borrow my brothers digital camera and I'm not sure if what I am talking about will even show up on camera. You have to hold the helmet in the light 'just right' to see the individual scratches and scrapes.

It's to bad that things like this have to happen

Man that's 2 today!

????????? some one else coppied one of your helm' s?

BobaFettSlave 1: It happens more often than you'd think...

I think It just sucks that people have to take credit for somthing some one else put hard time and effert in to

I would post something but this topic angers me enough to keep silent.

Originally Posted by AFettFullofDollars

It had obviously been painted in an Empire paint scheme because all of the Signature dings and scratches where molded onto the gelcoat!!

Well on a lighter note, at least this would make it easier to paint. Kinda like 'connect the dots'.

Whilst I don't wish to start another silly 'flame war'...

Define 'recast' for me?

Marrow Sun didn't sculpt his helmet. He bought one on Ebay, fiddled with it a bit, sanded it, then poured silicone over it.

Is that not 'recasting'?

For the record, I do not agree with 'recasting' and would be gutted if someone blatantly copied my work.

But MS can't be totally angry about this, he didn't sculpt it from scratch.

I mean no offence guys, just pointing this out.

No need to lock the thread. Everyone is behaving, so far.

Lets calm it down folks! Recasting sucks ***, but I don't think anyone should go pointing fingers without hard evidence, nor should they do so in public. If you have beef, shouldn't we do it privately?


Just my thoughts, no offense intended to anyone

Dan

Originally Posted by MARROW SUN

Now I’m certain this thread will be shut down soon as these exchanges bring nothing positive to the community, and I’ll probably be reprimanded for my commentary. How clever of you to dupe me into another Flame war, “You got me!” It’s not as though you’ve anything to lose, you can always create a different shell account.

I mean no offence, just pointing this out.

AAAHH "Shell accounts", good one Marrow... I think you hit it right on the spot.
I do agree with you that this "Helmetman" does like to start exchanges, especially with you Marrow.
Now why is that ???..... Interesting....
I mean "No Offence" Helmetman.

Instead of clumsy analogies and Utilitarian philosophy, common sense and respect go a long way toward resolving recasting disputes. But first, a brief fact-check of the mystery helmets.

• For the sake of brevity, both Sarge's helmet and Marrow Sun's helmet will be referred as "Mystery Helmets"
• There are 3 known, original "Mystery Helmets"
• The first "Mystery Helmet" was given to a prop-maker in the early 80's
• The other two "Mystery Helmets" were purchased after 1990 by Sergeant Fang and Marrow_Sun, respectively.
• While ample evidence suggests the "Mystery Helmets" were Don Post prototype helmets, there is no 100% conclusive proof of the original
  owner or sculptor.

The lack of an original, traceable owner/artist places ORIGINAL "Mystery Helmets" alongside Don Post helmets in regard to recasting tolerance. HOWEVER, here is the caveat: both Sergeant Fang and Marrow Sun did ample clean-up and restoration to their "Mystery Helmets." That fact now gives their respective "Mystery Helmets" a traceable origin and
artisan.

While we do not condone Marrow Sun or Sgt Fang's actions any more than we would someone recasting a Don Post helmet, we have grandfathered their helmets in as legit recasts. Therefore in compliance with the Code of Conduct: " A member found selling/trading (either in the Cargo Hold or any other online auction or outlet) items recast from another member will face permanent banishment from TDH." For example, if a member buys a Don Post Dlx and recasts it, they are in the clear. However, if they recast ANOTHER MEMBER'S CASTING of a Don Post Dlx they face permanent banishment. The same applies to the Mystery Helmet.

This is not a perfect solution and yes there is grey area, but we feel this is the best way for us to moderate recasting disputes.

Could not have said it better myself.......:thumbup :thumbup :thumbup

Thats where all the confusion comes in, if you like a mystery helmet and wanted to improve it, How do you know its an original cast of a mystery helmet and not one someone has already done something to.

MS. I didn't mean to dupe you into anything dude.

And I don't wish to antagonise you.

I was merely making a comment in a respectful manner.

I myself make stuff. For example. I'm currently making C3PO heads. As mentioned in the other thread, I'm not sure of the 'origin' of the moulds.

I suspect it's a prop.

Now, I didn't make the original piece. Although I have put ALOT of time and effort into cleaning it up and getting it right, as I'm sure you did on your lid.

However, if at some point down the line, a blatant 'recast' of one of my Threepios ends up on Ebay (meaning they have done nothing but pour a bit of rubber on it)....

I would be annoyed (as you probably are).

BUT, what grounds do I have to be annoyed?

I didn't sculpt the original piece, I merely took it and changed it a bit.

That's all I'm saying guys.

If someone 'creates' something from nothing and it gets ripped off. Yeah man, that sucks big time.

If someone 'creates' something from an existing piece and it gets duped, you gotta roll with the punches.

That's the last from me on the subject of recasting.

And what's this talk of muppets & puppets bro?

If you are suggesting there is something underhanded going on with my ID here. You couldn't be more wrong.

Less of the accusations please. I'm a decent guy!

I like muppets.....

Well if someone does not have the stomach for this hobby and all that comes with it maybe they should find a new hobby.

It's like a professional surfer complaining all the time about sharks. Well you're in the ocean looking like food dumb ***.

Its gonna happen if you distribute items of copyrights you probably dont own.

Everyone in this forum (who collects/costumes) owns at least 1 recast and if you say you do not .......well.

I say it is good to call out a recaster but to split hairs and whine and start a cat fight is silly. If you own the rights to the peice than sue his ***, if not bring it to light here. But it should not be the axis of a person or a message boards life.

I am not speaking to anyone in particular, this is a general rant.

And everyone knows that Muppets are a recast of Puppets!

Fair point man.

If you base your work on something that already exists, you ain't got too much room to rant.

End of line.

Originally Posted by cal196

Thats where all the confusion comes in, if you like a mystery helmet and wanted to improve it, How do you know its an original cast of a mystery helmet and not one someone has already done something to.

Improving it for your own use is just that, improving it for your own use. Improving it, making copies of it, and (here is the important part) selling it to others is where the problem lies. Let me try to simplify this.

If person A was making helmets and selling them for say $200, and person B bought one and fixes something they don't like about it. Then person B makes copies of it and begins to market them to the same audience as person A. Person A is now out any potential sales they may have had. Get it? Person B profits from person A's work. Recasting in a nutshell.

Originally Posted by cal196

Thats where all the confusion comes in, if you like a mystery helmet and wanted to improve it, How do you know its an original cast of a mystery helmet and not one someone has already done something to.

I mean what BobaFettish said..."yeah, that's the ticket".

As to why there is a gray area for DP/licensed stuff, that is pretty simple. With the exception of Master Replicas, no licensee (in most people's opinions) has ever made a quality, screen-accurate prop. Most are scaled down or mis-shapened. We, as costumers and collectors, strive for screen-accurate parts. To take something that they created (a lot of the time having the real deals for reference and still get it wrong) and improve upon it, knowing that their license has expired (DP lost theirs back in the '90s) is not taking business away from them. Does that justify it? No, but that is one for each to decide themselves.

As for recasting "found parts" like Paterson tools, MQ-1s, and Webley's, those are fair game as they are obtainable. Now buying said copies from another member and copying it to sell is another story.

Originally Posted by Helmetman

If someone 'creates' something from nothing and it gets ripped off. Yeah man, that sucks big time.

If someone 'creates' something from an existing piece and it gets duped, you gotta roll with the punches.

At TDH, in either case, as has been stated in my previous post, either of these actions can and will get a member banned. We will not "roll with the punches" here. Do not recast another member's work, whether it be an improvement to an existing helmet like the DP Dlx or a totally original sculpt like the MSH, period.

Has anyone who makes and sell's so called legitimate casts/recast's here made a million bucks yet?...

Mason...

I thought we weren't going to stir THAT pot again...

Aparently someone brought a spoon to the party!

From now on, I'm not going to comment on recasting matters.

It just gets me into trouble

From now on....I'm thinking happy thoughts.

Yes, To OBI_WAN you listen
|
V

If it takes a chicken & a half, a day and a half, to lay an egg and a half,How long would it take a 1 inch cricket with a wooden leg to pound a ten-penny nail through a two by four?

Originally Posted by slave1pilot

If it takes a chicken & a half, a day and a half, to lay an egg and a half,How long would it take a 1 inch cricket with a wooden leg to pound a ten-penny nail through a two by four?

Pfffttttt.... everyone knows the answer to that!!! Orange!!!! Duh!!!!

4 days 3 hours 23 min and 9 sec.

Let's all form an angry linch mob! lol


jk

OOO, we haven't had us a good linchin' down in these parts in some time.

Originally Posted by tylerdurden

Master-Jedi-Allma,

The administration has made it's policy perfectly clear in the "Mystery Helmet," Bobamaker, Marrow_Sun, and Helmetman matter. We are trying to ease tensions and your are simply adding unnecessary fuel to the fire. Your comment in this post is neither constructive nor helpful.

Furthermore, and this applies to everyone, any additional comments that the administration deems inappropriate for this thread will result in a temporary ban.

Tylerdurden...
When did I mention the BM/MS matter By the way?...
You said "Your comment..."?
It was a question wasn't it?
You say im adding unnecessary fuel to the fire?...
My intention with the question was to "Make light of it" and throw "water" on the fire and wake people up to the fact that they are overeacting to something that none of us owns to or even has the rights to...

I thought its a community here that is based on replicating thier favourite character's, the Fett's...
Are we all not guilty of replicating/copying, what ever you wanna call it, someone else's idea for our own pleasure and benefit?...

Maybe im niaeve,

Please correct me if some of you DO have the rights to make/distribute LFL props etc...

I will then stand corrected...:thumbup

But for now i'm just gonna go and sit next to my bucket collection and be thankfull for the things I have and feel lucky that i'm alive today to enjoy it...
Thats more important in my eye's..

Mason...
Ps:... my wife came by and read this thread earlier and her comment was...
"I cant believe a bunch of SW geeks (her words but meaning "me" included obviously) are arguing over who has the right to copy something from George Lucas's movies?!...Thats hilarious!"...

Put it in perspective for me...LOL!

I have fought and argued these points for over a year. There is "nothing new under the sun" as pro or anti-recast arguements. TDH has made it's stance very clear. I do not completely agree but I do completely comply. If I wanted to recast my Marrow_Sun helmet I would have to choose to quit here and join another community. I do not choose that nor do I like my odds at finding a community as nice as this one.

End o' story. (Now, if I saw an original "Mystery" base helmet on Ebay and had the time to learn to make a mold, I just might buy it up and make some some buckets. )