Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

PP2 casting vs MF - You be the judge

  1. #1
    Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2002
    From
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    8,189

    PP2 casting vs MF - You be the judge

    There seems to be a common misconception that because the MR helmet was scanned from an original helmet, it is perfect and virtually identical to the original. Unfortunately we are not quite in the Star Trek age yet and while scanning technology is amazing, it is far from perfect. Likewise, while the MR helmet is extremely nice and I would encourage anyone to get one, it is NOT perfect and is NOT exactly like the original.

    While every original Fett helmet is slightly different, they share many common features and are more or less the same. Some time ago, I had the privilege of comparing the MR helmet (scanned from the pp3) to a FIRST gen casting from the Preproduction 2 helmet. Below are comparisons of the two helmets, showing the similarities and differences. I think most of the comparisons are pretty good except the back shot in which the PP2 casting helmet was tilted too far back, making the brow band look odd.

    The MR is a commercial helmet, readily available to the public while the PP2 casting helmet is not. This will probably make the MR seem better in the eyes of some, and I think from a costumer's standpoint, it IS the better helmet, but in terms of sheer accuracy, I think these pics clearly show that it is not perfectly accurate to an original. The PP2 casting helmet is a direct cast of an original helmet, and has all the original blemishes, warps, warbles and ugly spots that a real screen used prop has. You can see the dome is lumpy and uneven. The brow is warped. The aspects are very rough and asymmetrical. The MR on the other hand is based on an original, but to a degree, has been idealized. It is a gorgeous helmet with smooth surfaces and very clean, flowing lines. To me, it represents what the helmet should look like and does look like in our heads. Ones preference comes down to whether you like absolute accuracy, or idealized perfection. Neither is wrong, but I feel it IS wrong to use the term "screen accurate" interchangeably with terms that really mean you simply like the way a helmet looks.

    Thanks to those who made these helmets available for me to compare and photograph. You know who you are.















    Last edited by Art Andrews; Sep 22, 2009 at 9:59 AM.

  2. #2
    Sixxgunn13's Avatar
    Member Since
    Mar 2002
    From
    Canada, on the planet of Hoth.
    Posts
    1,585

    Re: MR vs MF - You be the judge

    Wow, you are the man Brak's!!

    now when will you have a Fett suit for yourself done?!

  3. #3
    Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2002
    From
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    8,189

    Re: MR vs MF - You be the judge

    all I have are a few found parts... so at the current rate I am going... never...

  4. #4
    I helped at SDCC '08 MandalorFett's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2005
    From
    California USA
    Posts
    2,738

    Re: MR vs MF - You be the judge

    Great post, timely topic.

  5. #5

    Re: MR vs MF - You be the judge

    Great post Art..

    Love that term.. "idealized"... I think that best discribes the MR helmet.

    So Art would say the PP2, PP3, and maybe even the Hero AOSW ESB helmet are/ or might be, different helmets then??
    Reason I say that is the dents are sooo different..
    Last edited by Spideyfett; Dec 10, 2007 at 1:10 PM.

  6. #6

    Member Since
    Oct 2007
    From
    United States
    Posts
    110

    Re: MR vs MF - You be the judge

    I think I prefer the MR helmet, but I'll reserve judgement when it FINALLY arrives. Thanks for the pics.

  7. #7
    Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2002
    From
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    8,189

    Re: MR vs MF - You be the judge

    Spideyfett said: View Post
    So Art would say the PP2, PP3, and maybe even the Hero AOSW ESB helmet are/ or might be, different helmets then??
    Reason I say that is the dents are sooo different..
    No. I don't think they are different helmets. Based on my research, I believe the helmets are all the same base helmet. However, they were cast without a dent. I believe they were all initially white with no dent and without a few other details. The dents were put in after the SuperTrooper was scrapped. Because the dents were all put in manually and not cast in, they look different and are placed slightly different. This is not fact, but my educated guess based on what I know and have seen. I could be entirely wrong, but there are a lot of tells that suggest the base helmets are all the same.

  8. #8
    Loanstar's Avatar
    Member Since
    Mar 2002
    From
    Koblenz Germany
    Posts
    587

    Re: MR vs MF - You be the judge

    And I thought the MR is a 100% accurate one
    I was thinking to order 2 of it just because I thought this is the closest deal.

    Thx a lot Art.
    You gave me a nice day

  9. #9

    Re: MR vs MF - You be the judge

    Brak's Buddy said: View Post
    No. I don't think they are different helmets. Based on my research, I believe the helmets are all the same base helmet. However, they were cast without a dent. I believe they were all initially white with no dent and without a few other details. The dents were put in after the SuperTrooper was scrapped. Because the dents were all put in manually and not cast in, they look different and are placed slightly different. This is not fact, but my educated guess based on what I know and have seen. I could be entirely wrong, but there are a lot of tells that suggest the base helmets are all the same.
    THAT'S RIGHT!! Supertrooper!! I forget about that one....

    good stuff.

    thanks

  10. #10
    evan4218's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2005
    From
    Roanoke, TX
    Posts
    1,789

    Re: MR vs MF - You be the judge

    Great comparison bro. Cant wait to see your MR painted up!

  11. #11
    Mojo-Fett's Avatar
    Member Since
    May 2007
    From
    UK
    Posts
    4,783

    Re: MR vs MF - You be the judge

    Awesome comparison pics Brak's... I agree that as a mass produced lid it is very accommodating to all costumers but not for the die-hard Fett fanatics?

    Thanks for posting these...

  12. #12
    Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2002
    From
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    8,189

    Re: MR vs MF - You be the judge

    Loanstar said: View Post
    And I thought the MR is a 100% accurate one
    I was thinking to order 2 of it just because I thought this is the closest deal.

    Thx a lot Art.
    You gave me a nice day
    PLEASE do not misunderstand. I truly believe a completely accurate Fett helmet would not be commercially viable as it looks terrible!!! It is very very rough. I don't think anyone who orders an MR will be disappointed as it is an absolutely beautiful helmet, open to everyone, and at a great price!

  13. #13

    Re: MR vs MF - You be the judge

    The MR looks absolutely stunning

    Actually makes me glad that all those makers I PMd here about byuing a kit chose to ingore me I'l get this beauty instead

  14. #14
    I helped at SDCC '08 Bountyone's Avatar
    Member Since
    Aug 2007
    From
    San Diego. CA/ Hertfordshire, England
    Posts
    1,176

    Re: MR vs MF - You be the judge

    I agree, got to love the clean lines on the MR

  15. #15

    Re: MR vs MF - You be the judge

    Hmmm, I see the differences. They are both great looking helmets and the MR is available to the public. The MR's are awesome (out of my price range) but awesome. There are some scratchbuild's I've seen as well as the MF, Bobamaker and others I'm sure I'm overlooking that are incredible to me.

    I'm a broke father of 2, so if anyone has an old bucket they just can't stand to have around because they've upgraded to a newer, more accurate helmet, or if you're cleaning out your Star Wars stuff, just PM me and maybe we can work out a deal.

    As long as it looks better than this, we can talk.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails fettbad-helmet-jpg  

  16. #16
    Mojo-Fett's Avatar
    Member Since
    May 2007
    From
    UK
    Posts
    4,783

    Re: MR vs MF - You be the judge

    Southern hunter said: View Post
    I'm a broke father of 2, so if anyone has an old bucket they just can't stand to have around because they've upgraded to a newer, more accurate helmet, or if you're cleaning out your Star Wars stuff, just PM me and maybe we can work out a deal.

    As long as it looks better than this, we can talk.
    Bro that is killer...

  17. #17
    Sixxgunn13's Avatar
    Member Since
    Mar 2002
    From
    Canada, on the planet of Hoth.
    Posts
    1,585

    Re: MR vs MF - You be the judge

    Southern hunter,check your pm !

  18. #18

    Re: MR vs MF - You be the judge

    Everything is 2nd best short of having the actual screen used helmet - period.

    But lets talk about these plugs and such,
    who can say what damage and scratches and wonkiness was caused by poor casting or bad handling? Who is to say that these coveted and quickly recasted "official" copies of one of the alledeged line up of Fett helmets was given kid glove care when molded? Perhaps this had a big impact on the overall pulled piece, I don't know....

    It appears they were quickly molded/recasted because it was a no-no.
    What about the handling of the costumes pieces over the years. I've seen pics of the ankle spats displayed over the wrists!
    Who can say whats completely accurate based on photos from when the costumes were haphazzardly thrown onto old shelving (as seen in the cd pics) and such have caused ?

    At any rate, the MR for me is a helmet I can get that was digitally scanned from an official helmet which I think looks really good and with some minor touch ups can be made very screen accurate.

    The best part is I (and anyone)can get one without having to confim my alliances/friendships here or having to deal with someone doing a half-cocked background check on me just to get something fan made around here,
    by begging for one or having to "kiss up" constantly and hope...or having to deal with secret web sites inside this web site, broken promises, certain people getting stuff then throwing it up in everyones faces who did not, pics that were supposed to be posted "for the community" but were not, ect, ect, ect, blah, blah blah,

    You know - Jason had the right idea and I shame myself for not following his lead earlier - good by all......

    I prefer to leave here with my dignity not having to begg someone for something...

  19. #19

    Re: MR vs MF - You be the judge

    pghfett said: View Post
    Everything is 2nd best short of having the actual screen used helmet - period.

    But lets talk about these plugs and such,
    who can say what damage and scratches and wonkiness was caused by poor casting or bad handling? Who is to say that these coveted and quickly recasted "official" copies of one of the alledeged line up of Fett helmets was given kid glove care when molded? Perhaps this had a big impact on the overall pulled piece, I don't know....

    It appears they were quickly molded/recasted because it was a no-no.
    What about the handling of the costumes pieces over the years. I've seen pics of the ankle spats displayed over the wrists!
    Who can say whats completely accurate based on photos from when the costumes were haphazzardly thrown onto old shelving (as seen in the cd pics) and such have caused ?

    At any rate, the MR for me is a helmet I can get that was digitally scanned from an official helmet which I think looks really good and with some minor touch ups can be made very screen accurate.

    The best part is I (and anyone)can get one without having to confim my alliances/friendships here or having to deal with someone doing a half-cocked background check on me just to get something fan made around here,
    by begging for one or having to "kiss up" constantly and hope...or having to deal with secret web sites inside this web site, broken promises, certain people getting stuff then throwing it up in everyones faces who did not, pics that were supposed to be posted "for the community" but were not, ect, ect, ect, blah, blah blah,
    Well put

  20. #20
    Sixxgunn13's Avatar
    Member Since
    Mar 2002
    From
    Canada, on the planet of Hoth.
    Posts
    1,585

    Re: MR vs MF - You be the judge

    I love the uneven look of the MF over the MR, must be cause it reminds me of "accurate" trooper (TE) type helmets.

  21. #21

    Member Since
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,001

    Re: MR vs MF - You be the judge

    pghfett said: View Post
    Everything is 2nd best short of having the actual screen used helmet - period.

    But lets talk about these plugs and such,
    who can say what damage and scratches and wonkiness was caused by poor casting or bad handling? Who is to say that these coveted and quickly recasted "official" copies of one of the alledeged line up of Fett helmets was given kid glove care when molded? Perhaps this had a big impact on the overall pulled piece, I don't know....

    It appears they were quickly molded/recasted because it was a no-no.
    I can tell you for a fact, that the Malone helmet was molded off the original on the instructions from GL himself.

  22. #22
    evan4218's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2005
    From
    Roanoke, TX
    Posts
    1,789

    Re: MR vs MF - You be the judge

    Delta75 said: View Post
    I can tell you for a fact, that the Malone helmet was molded off the original on the instructions from GL himself.
    I believe this to be true as well. That molding process is also where the famous gouges in the back of the helmet seen on the reference disk came from. To bad they went a different way with the helmets DP made back in the day because that would have been sweet to have such an accurate helmet from the start.

  23. #23
    never_ending_fett's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2006
    From
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    1,158

    Re: MR vs MF - You be the judge

    These are some great comparison shots Braks. I wasn't aware that RS's plug had been cast, last I remember reading, he said he probably would never cast it. Will it ever be available for purchase? Also where did the name Malone Fett come from? I can't believe how "warped" the brow is around the back! How much of the inperfectons are a result of the casting process and what is actually there in the original pp2? Was the warp that prominent in the pp3 MR scanned which they "fixed" to idealize it?

    I really like that concept/term that the MR is the idealized version. Do these photos change anyones ideas as to their ultimate goal of accuracy? Screen accurate or idealized accurate? somewhere in between?

    Again, thanks Braks!

  24. #24

    Re: MR vs MF - You be the judge

    never_ending_fett said: View Post
    I really like that concept/term that the MR is the idealized version. Do these photos change anyones ideas as to their ultimate goal of accuracy? Screen accurate or idealized accurate? somewhere in between?

    Again, thanks Braks!
    If the Hero ESB AOSW was ever casted/ scanned or whatever (yeah right), I would be taking a second mortage out for that one.......one can dream.
    IMO though I think the only "screen accurate" fett helmet we all know is the ESB hero, and the ROTJ hero, the ones with the most screen time......which both are still on tour, and from my understanding that was NOT the one MR used to scan....right?? (please correct me if I'm wrong)

  25. #25
    never_ending_fett's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2006
    From
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    1,158

    Re: MR vs MF - You be the judge

    Spideyfett said: View Post
    If the Hero ESB AOSW was ever casted/ scanned or whatever (yeah right), I would be taking a second mortage out for that one.......one can dream.
    IMO though I think the only "screen accurate" fett helmet we all know is the ESB hero, and the ROTJ hero, the ones with the most screen time......which both are still on tour, and from my understanding that was NOT the one MR used to scan....right?? (please correct me if I'm wrong)
    man, alot happened from the time I started typing my last post till when I actually hit submit. I think the last post was the one just after the infamous scratchbuild picture...anyways...

    I agree with you spidey on the "screen accurate" ones being the ESB and ROTJ heroes, however if the pp2 and pp3 being copied as the MF and MR all came from the supertrooper mold wouldn't that make them the nearest we have to "screen accurate" with there only being some differences in shape and location of the dent along with some other minor things?

Similar Threads

  1. Now recruiting for Judge Dredd fans.
    By Lord Plagueus in forum The Sarlacc Pit
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Mar 16, 2008, 12:04 AM
  2. Judge Valcar = 2000ad Crossover Project
    By Darth Valcar in forum Expanded Universe Bounty Hunters
    Replies: 143
    Last Post: Feb 16, 2008, 12:09 AM
  3. Judge Dredd
    By nicklambo in forum The Sarlacc Pit
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: Dec 5, 2007, 7:21 AM
  4. A so-called 96?!? You be the judge
    By Jodo_Kast in forum Boba Fett Helmet
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Nov 15, 2003, 1:47 PM
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •