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  1. Ponte's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago - Oct 7, 2014, 5:03 PM - Ponte's ESB Helmet Paint-up For rnbuda: Tweaking What We Know #1

    Finally back to the old drawing boards, but this time, I'm changing up quite a few elements to my helmet paint-ups from here on out, this being the first to receive my new take on what's arguably this community's favorite helmet...the Empire Strikes Back Hero/ROTJ Special Edition.

    I'll cut to the chase and start with the biggest change: All of the colors.

    Folks, this helmet is WAY darker than what we've been attributing the colors to, where most if not all of our paint-ups, including my own, have been using the high resolution Celebration IV and Art of Star Wars photos as our palette. Speaking to a few individuals who have had the grace of seeing the real deal in person, the sentiment is the same: this is a very, very dark helmet, and the photos we've been using in the gallery are completely flash-soaked to the point where many of the colors are off.

    So back to square one. Great. So how do we know what it REALLY looks like?

    I'm willing to bet this photo of the screen-used ESB helmet is the truest representation, as if we were looking at it in ideal lighting conditions with our own eyes:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yea, that's one dark mama.
    One of the most frustrating colors to mix is no doubt the back panels. Even in the CIV and AOSW galleries, each and every shot casts those main panels in a completely different shade of green/blue/gray/whatever that have given all of us painters on the board some free reign and self-interpretation of what that color should be. Considering this photo of Gino appears to be very similar to Art’s in terms of lighting and color, I also believe it’s safe to say this is what we’re really supposed to be seeing for those back panels:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Alright, on to the other details. There are two areas that were once thought to be strictly damage acquired after filming that are prevalent on the “Special Edition” version of this bucket that I firmly believe existed on the ESB bucket at the time of filming. The hairline vertical crack and bulged warping of the mandibles. You can definitely see both in this comparison photo:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    You can really see that crack on the ESB, and I think the reason it’s so apparent on the helmet as of recent is due to continual stress over the years making the crack slightly larger, exposing the gelcoat underneath. The hairline is relatively easy to replicate with an exactly knife doing a precise, DEEP gouge, while the warped bulge will most likely have to be built up using Bondo:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Now that I’m done with that spiel, let’s get to work.

    Trying to get all these beauties caught up to the same layer. Some existing layers will obviously need some tweaking:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    And of course, rnbuda's FPH2:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Stay tuned, folks!
    Last edited by Ponte; 2 Weeks Ago at 5:16 PM.
  2. Major's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago - Oct 7, 2014, 5:10 PM - Re: Ponte's ESB Helmet Paint-up For rnbuda: Tweaking What We Know #2

    Interesting........ you make some good points......
  3. NikNak_aka's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago - Oct 7, 2014, 5:42 PM - Re: Ponte's ESB Helmet Paint-up For rnbuda: Tweaking What We Know #3

    Dis gonna be good.
  4. superjedi's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago - Oct 7, 2014, 5:55 PM - Re: Ponte's ESB Helmet Paint-up For rnbuda: Tweaking What We Know #4

    Ah, really looking forward to seeing this one!

    Although I'm not entirely sold on what you're describing as the "warped bulge" on the right outer cheek.
    I think this is attributed to fading/weathering of that dark black-green base color. I'll have to study some
    of my reference pics on this one.
  5. High Speed Low Drag Fett 4 Real's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago - Oct 7, 2014, 6:50 PM - Re: Ponte's ESB Helmet Paint-up For rnbuda: Tweaking What We Know #5

    SJ it's 100% a bulge ask gino or art.
  6. fettpride's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago - Oct 7, 2014, 7:06 PM - Re: Ponte's ESB Helmet Paint-up For rnbuda: Tweaking What We Know #6

    100% agreed on what you're calling the bulge. Though I believe it to be a combination of sink hole and bulge. It's something I've been attributing to a casting flaw. Most likely the gelcoat layer kicked a little to soon in that area and started to distort a bit before it was laid up with it's laminate layer. At least, that's been my theory since I first saw it. Hard to explain something like that in many other ways. Fiberglass won't warp like that even with a heat gun. Not without destroying the casting anyway.


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  7. High Speed Low Drag Fett 4 Real's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago - Oct 7, 2014, 7:09 PM - Re: Ponte's ESB Helmet Paint-up For rnbuda: Tweaking What We Know #7

    It's where they used the bent metal brakes for the visor fellas...
  8. fettpride's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago - Oct 7, 2014, 7:13 PM - Ponte's ESB Helmet Paint-up For rnbuda: Tweaking What We Know #8

    Not sure they'd be 100% at fault, not without completely blowing that area out. I think the casting is still at least partly to blame there. They might have installed them while the helmet was still green(ish). Glass won't stretch or bend if fully cured. Not without a heat gun. And even then it's very very little give. It does show some signs of cracking there. So maybe they installed the brackets before it was fully cured. Glass can stay in a semi rigid/rubbery state for a few hours and still feel like it's cured solid. If they did do that, it would have stretched juuust enough to create a bulge and begin to crack. Then it could have set that way. And they reinforced the inside with whatever epoxy that is they used around and about inside the helmet.
    Last edited by fettpride; 2 Weeks Ago at 8:26 PM.
  9. Mullreel's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago - Oct 7, 2014, 7:18 PM - Re: Ponte's ESB Helmet Paint-up For rnbuda: Tweaking What We Know #9

    more cool information. I love this site.
  10. superjedi's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago - Oct 7, 2014, 8:32 PM - Re: Ponte's ESB Helmet Paint-up For rnbuda: Tweaking What We Know #10

    Huh. Well, there it is I guess. Very interesting indeed!
  11. syllander's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago - Oct 7, 2014, 8:39 PM - Re: Ponte's ESB Helmet Paint-up For rnbuda: Tweaking What We Know #11

    Interesting. I like the darker look for sure, accurate or other-wise.
    Are you going to post up some part numbers for the paint you use to recreate this, when you get to that point?
  12. Ponte's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago - Oct 7, 2014, 8:52 PM - Re: Ponte's ESB Helmet Paint-up For rnbuda: Tweaking What We Know #12

    Quote syllander said: View Post
    Interesting. I like the darker look for sure, accurate or other-wise.
    Are you going to post up some part numbers for the paint you use to recreate this, when you get to that point?
    I'm really, really going to try. I can tell you right now, a lot of this is going to be trial and error. I'll mix up maybe a 50/50 ratio, won't be satisfied, and then tip in a few more drops to get the color closer. I'm keeping a record of all my incremental changes, but I can't promise it'll be an exact measurement of the color I used.
  13. formerly buda741 rnbuda's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago - Oct 7, 2014, 9:24 PM - Re: Ponte's ESB Helmet Paint-up For rnbuda: Tweaking What We Know #13

    Subscribed for obvious reasons!
  14. High Speed Low Drag Fett 4 Real's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago - Oct 7, 2014, 9:54 PM - Re: Ponte's ESB Helmet Paint-up For rnbuda: Tweaking What We Know #14

    And obviously Ponte is right about the colors being skewed... @Art Andrews posted about this on Facebook last week regarding the pcd (?) Files and how the color has been off for decades...
  15. Syper's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago - Oct 7, 2014, 10:23 PM - Re: Ponte's ESB Helmet Paint-up For rnbuda: Tweaking What We Know #15

    Great points your bringing up Mr. Looking forward to this build as well. Subscribed!!
  16. jbdubz's Avatar
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    2 Weeks Ago - Oct 8, 2014, 12:48 AM - Re: Ponte's ESB Helmet Paint-up For rnbuda: Tweaking What We Know #16

    Quote Syper said: View Post
    Great points your bringing up Mr. Looking forward to this build as well. Subscribed!!
    ditto!


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  17. Major's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago - Oct 15, 2014, 12:55 PM - Re: Ponte's ESB Helmet Paint-up For rnbuda: Tweaking What We Know #17

    The other thing that occurred to me on this is we don't know the conditions this helmet was stored in and how that affected the paints.

    I agree that the colors are most likely darker than we all have thought over the years, I just wonder how much custom mixing vs off the shelf they would have done. Custom mixing every color for the helmet would have been a chore to say the least......

    Some food for thought......
  18. High Speed Low Drag Fett 4 Real's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago - Oct 15, 2014, 1:01 PM - Re: Ponte's ESB Helmet Paint-up For rnbuda: Tweaking What We Know #18

    Major even if you were to get a bottle of the paint they used back then...it would NOT be the same color now...oxidation of the paint would have occured and changed it a bit.

    With that said they also did washes on the helmet so that also changes the appearance of the color. Not sure how much info Gino can give but I know he has held it and can tell more about colors then anyone else that can remember anything about the thing Sandy and Joe Johnston have long forgotten what they did back then
  19. Major's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago - Oct 15, 2014, 1:04 PM - Re: Ponte's ESB Helmet Paint-up For rnbuda: Tweaking What We Know #19

    Dom,

    That's part of my point as well. How has the paint reacted over the years since it was done? And how much of it is just a wash?

    Again, things to keep in mind as we have this discussion.


    Quote Fett 4 Real said: View Post
    Major even if you were to get a bottle of the paint they used back then...it would NOT be the same color now...oxidation of the paint would have occured and changed it a bit.

    With that said they also did washes on the helmet so that also changes the appearance of the color. Not sure how much info Gino can give but I know he has held it and can tell more about colors then anyone else that can remember anything about the thing Sandy and Joe Johnston have long forgotten what they did back then
  20. High Speed Low Drag Fett 4 Real's Avatar
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    1 Week Ago - Oct 15, 2014, 1:13 PM - Re: Ponte's ESB Helmet Paint-up For rnbuda: Tweaking What We Know #20

    Also true. Also have to wonder how it was handled the time it was cast for the stunt helmet.
  21. grenater's Avatar
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    6 Days Ago - Oct 17, 2014, 1:59 PM - Re: Ponte's ESB Helmet Paint-up For rnbuda: Tweaking What We Know #21

    Is it just me.. Or does the bottom cheek look brushed?
  22. High Speed Low Drag Fett 4 Real's Avatar
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    6 Days Ago - Oct 17, 2014, 2:04 PM - Re: Ponte's ESB Helmet Paint-up For rnbuda: Tweaking What We Know #22

    What do u mean?
  23. grenater's Avatar
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    6 Days Ago - Oct 17, 2014, 2:14 PM - Re: Ponte's ESB Helmet Paint-up For rnbuda: Tweaking What We Know #23

    Quote Fett 4 Real said: View Post
    What do u mean?
    In his comparison photo

    sorry i should have been more specific i mean doesnt the cheek look like it was painted by hand or with a brush?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  24. Ponte's Avatar
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    6 Days Ago - Oct 17, 2014, 2:22 PM - Re: Ponte's ESB Helmet Paint-up For rnbuda: Tweaking What We Know #24

    Quote grenater said: View Post
    In his comparison photo

    sorry i should have been more specific i mean doesnt the cheek look like it was painted by hand or with a brush?
    I see what you're saying, and yea, it totally does look like weathering was applied in that area using a brush.
  25. grenater's Avatar
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    6 Days Ago - Oct 17, 2014, 2:30 PM - Re: Ponte's ESB Helmet Paint-up For rnbuda: Tweaking What We Know #25

    Quote Ponte said: View Post
    I see what you're saying, and yea, it totally does look like weathering was applied in that area using a brush.
    I may also be shooting blanks here but doesn't it appear that the scratches may be possibly brush hair or one of the bristles stuck in the paint? once again just throwing ideas around.

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