Painting the Grant McCune Helmet (GMH)

Hi all,

Like many out there, I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of Art and Chris' fantastic (& historic) bucket.

And, again, like many of you, I intend to paint mine in the PP2 paint scheme .

To that end, it is my hope this thread will serve three functions:

1. Serve as a discussion thread for which paints (& techniques) to use on this helmet.
2. Serve as a repository for some of the best reference pics (or links to same) of the PP2 helmet.
3. Allow us to follow one anothers progress as we paint these up.

Lastly, I'd love a volunteer to step up and do a template for the PP2 killstripes (but that's just me being selfish!).

So, thoughts?

OSK

Sounds great! I plan to do mine in the PP2 scheme as well. Unfortunately, I'm primarily an ESB guy so I'm still in the information gathering stage, too.
As far as which paints, I would say liquid. I'm going to use liquid paint on my helmet.

I would search Floquil paints as the first ones, then, if some colours are not found found try with others.

I would say that the colors of the ROTJ should be close...being they were painted by the same person...theres are a few pics out there of the PP2 helmet but alof them dont show all the angles. Im really debating what I want to paint my first GMH. Id like to have like 6 of them to paint different ways each in all honesty but finances wont allow that right now. The dome and upper and lower cheeks are very close in color to the ROTJ...problem your gonna have is the back of the helmets areas...where there is very little reference and the refernce there is, is very poor...but once again VERY similar to the ROTJ hunter green with misting of grey paint...right ear looks the same style as well...I would get CC ears if possible get them looking like metal then go over them with dark grey and brown and then sand away the paint to get the effect...thats what i did for my ROTJ ears on my MS3...the left ear looks similar but also looks green in some of the pics there arent great pics of that side fo the helmet......The Red trim is a brighter looking red...kill stripes all but two appear to be the same red orange as the ROTJ the last two seem faded...theres alot of physical damage to the helmet in the pics not just the masked damage...to get that effect i would get the layered green over the silver and go back with a exacto once dry its a long process but it works...anyone have a better idea that that and im all ears...this is for the tiny stuff you cant mask...on this and the ROTJ theres "carbon" around alot of the damage i like to dry brush this on top of the green once its dry hope to get mine soon just dont know which style i want to do

This is a great thread Sean... When I was told about the project a few months back I did my own research on the colors used, and in the coming weeks I'll be posting, what I believe, colors that are extremely close..

I think KaanE said it best, we should start with what we already know, and Floquil paints/ Polyscale/ Testors would be the way to go...for starters..

As I mentioned in the reveal thread, here is Micke's version... he used Humbrol paints, I think he came pretty close... humbrol is enamel based, and when creating swatches next to Floquil or Polyscale, once dried, alot of the colors are close to eachother..
If I couldn't get Floquil, I would definately use Humbrol.

Or....we could always try Pantone Colors??? I hear that's a pretty hot topic these days ..............

A very challenging paint job, deceivingly simple I think. The colours strike me as being quite dusty in appearance, might be the pics of course and that pink on the mandibles will make or break the look. The dent appears to be an odd colour, not quite silver or grey...? Looking forward to everyones solutions!

For those needing reference, we have lots of Preproduction #2 photos in our gallery.

Pre Production 2

Hilarious!!

Originally Posted by Spideyfett

Or....we could always try Pantone Colors??? I hear that's a pretty hot topic these days ..............

Thanks Art!!

Originally Posted by Art Andrews

For those needing reference, we have lots of Preproduction #2 photos in our gallery.

Pre Production 2

Originally Posted by terminal fettler

A very challenging paint job, deceivingly simple I think. The colours strike me as being quite dusty in appearance, might be the pics of course and that pink on the mandibles will make or break the look. The dent appears to be an odd colour, not quite silver or grey...? Looking forward to everyones solutions!

Certainly a lot of misting/overspray to consider.

Here is what I was thinking for colors:

Dome/Cheeks: Panzer Olive Grun
Mandibles: Caboose
Cheeks: C&O Enchantment Blue
Back: US Med Green (??????)
Scratches on Mandibles: PRR Maroon (?????)
Killstripes: Reefer Orange or Road Orange (???)

I have no idea what that 'pink' color on the mandibles is? Any ideas.

I have no idea what that 'pink' color on the mandibles is? Any ideas.

When I look at the PP2 mandibles, I'm reminded of the Slave 1 paint on the "skirt". Hull red with a medium toned pink and a base grey beneath. I'm thinking the way to approach the pink is to mix the mandible red with a medium grey to achieve the correct hue...

After looking at those pics more and more it really seems to me that pretty much the whole paintjob was topical. That and the whole helmet is clearly misted with some type of grey (reefer? primer?)

Arts helmet shows its layered not topical as i recall

Originally Posted by NikNak_aka

After looking at those pics more and more it really seems to me that pretty much the whole paintjob was topical. That and the whole helmet is clearly misted with some type of grey (reefer? primer?)

I'm convinced this helmet was totally layered, but then I would be... I think the real secret is the masking tape "pull" effect through the top coat, down to the base silver; the silver seams too detailed to be painted either topically or with liquid mask. Maybe the secret to the extra damage ( especially seen on the wear on the ears, between the publicity shots and the final images with it's present owner ) is the lack of key between the silver layer and top coat, very easy to pick off paint layers, but also easy for paint to be chipped/rubbed off accidentally...

you can see the silver is for sure under the green by all the tiny chips

From the ref pics, I'm counting 18 kill stripes. Anyone come up with a different number? Or is this something that was established much earlier?

Also, from this pic:




Does it appear that the white 'blobs' on the dome were intended to be part of the paint job? I know the long cuts were from molding damage.

I would say those white blobs are additional damage; they don't appear to match the paint effects on the rest of the helmet...

hmm the white blobs look like the helmet has been left sitting around while someone paints their bathroom, the back green looks very ROTJ to me and I'm still not 100% on the POG it looks quite blueish, I think the Humbrol equivalent is closer, 78 is it? I'm sure TF can confirm

Originally Posted by terminal fettler

A very challenging paint job, deceivingly simple I think. The colours strike me as being quite dusty in appearance, might be the pics of course and that pink on the mandibles will make or break the look. The dent appears to be an odd colour, not quite silver or grey...? Looking forward to everyones solutions!

I agree, this is going to be another squintathon I can tell!

Good idea...the top like the ROTJ appears to be layered then some more **** over the silver creating that effect...i misted green and grey over the areas like that on the ROTJ

This pic is very interesting: PP 2 Helmet 05 I know this is the beat-up version but there is definitely some areas that looked brushed on as well as some areas that have been weathered after the initial mask peel.

A couple of things regarding that image of the dome.



#1--The white "blobs" I was talking about earlier. It appears as though some of the silver/gray damage lays over the white. This would be a strange trick if the white got spattered on the helmet after its paint work was complete.

#2--As I highlighted in these 2 places, it looks like an odd mix of layered work here. If we consider this as a layered paint job, it seems that a base coat of silver was applied, then misted with some darker tone. After which, some areas were masked and a layer of green applied, allowing the mixed silver/darker gray to show through. Then, in some places, it looks like entirely new silver patches were added topically.

That's exactly what I was referring to. Thanks Eric!

IMHO all the helmet was painted the layered way (as all the helmets painted by Sandy), then the dark-weathering applied making the effect of darker zones over the green, I don't know about the white spots. And 99.9% sure it's not POG for the dome.

Originally Posted by terminal fettler

I'm convinced this helmet was totally layered, but then I would be... I think the real secret is the masking tape "pull" effect through the top coat, down to the base silver; the silver seams too detailed to be painted either topically or with liquid mask. Maybe the secret to the extra damage ( especially seen on the wear on the ears, between the publicity shots and the final images with it's present owner ) is the lack of key between the silver layer and top coat, very easy to pick off paint layers, but also easy for paint to be chipped/rubbed off accidentally...

Agreed...

If not POG for the dome and lower cheeks, what color are you guys thinking?

Originally Posted by superjedi

A couple of things regarding that image of the dome.



#1--The white "blobs" I was talking about earlier. It appears as though some of the silver/gray damage lays over the white. This
would be a strange trick if the white got spattered on the helmet after its paint work was complete.

#2--As I highlighted in these 2 places, it looks like an odd mix of layered work here. If we consider this as a layered paint job, it
seems that a base coat of silver was applied, then misted with some darker tone. After which, some areas were masked and a layer
of green applied, allowing the mixed silver/darker gray to show through. Then, in some places, it looks like entirely new silver
patches were added topically.

Interesting point in #2 except you missed a step. The bright silver would have been liquid masked first, then the grey pre shading applied, then select areas of grey or silver grey would have been liquid masked before the green top coat.

IMO the bolbs are damage it does look like its part of the paint job coz of the spray ovr it But the fact that we know when it was molded to make copies they used the rong prducts and had trouble removing it it would not just release hence the score marks from cuting the mold , if you are to use say plaster or a solid ruber when moulding the chosen product can adheare to sertin paints in dirent ways there for when removing the mould the paint stays with the mould not the painted surface. This is just my tyhorts on this mater.

Originally Posted by terminal fettler

Interesting point in #2 except you missed a step. The bright silver would have been liquid masked first, then the grey pre shading applied, then select areas of grey or silver grey would have been liquid masked before the green top coat.

Garrett, yeah, I see what you mean. My brain just doesn't think as 'layered' as yours!

Originally Posted by superjedi

Garrett, yeah, I see what you mean. My brain just doesn't think as 'layered' as yours!

The PP2 is reminding me of the ROTJ I did a while back, it's all masking and pre shading on the silver and even that stage has 3 or 4 layers before any colour goes on and then there's more shading to be done! I'm still scratching my head over those white marks on the back as they do have grey/silver within them which would suggest another explanation other than real damage...

TF, after all the paintjob is done, the helmet was weathered over it, just as RotJ, that would explain the weathering over the white things.

Spidey I think the under cheek area is more blue than RLM 73 is

Originally Posted by KaanE

TF, after all the paintjob is done, the helmet was weathered over it, just as RotJ, that would explain the weathering over the white things.

I'm seeing colour within the white damage, not on top, if that makes any sense? That means it's a layer and not topical...

Can you show me where exactly?

Superjedi's post no. 26, the area marked 1 in red shows grey colour within the white damage... I think..

Maybe the gray is layered under the white? You can't tell from that pic...

Originally Posted by KaanE

Maybe the gray is layered under the white? You can't tell from that pic...

Hmmm. I see where you're coming from on this. I need to study those pics some more...

So the white on the back of the ROTJ appears to be the same? Is it the gelcoat? Is it paint?

Spidey, thanks so much for sharing this info. As always, your input on paint is dead on. Man o man, were my color choices wrong or what?? lol.

I am surprised that C&O Enchantment Blue is not the upper cheek color. This was Lee's/RS choice for his ROTJ helmets, and I've always assumed its the accepted (read: "official") color for ROTJ and its Sandy painted brethren (like the PP2). Interesting indeed!!!

Here is a pic of a ROTJ Helmet using the C&O Enchantment blue on the upper cheeks (painted by PredatorMV I believe).

Sorry I couldn't find my orginal list... Kill Stripes updated on post #37

Originally Posted by Spideyfett

[*]Mandibles: Wisconsin Central Maroon (Floquil/ Polly Scale SKU# F110282)

How's it going, Alex.
That seems like it would be pretty dark for the mandible color.

I'll do a swatch of each. Pretty sure I still have some WC Maroon left.

Alex I sent you a PM a few days ago. Hey!

alex u got all the good pics

Originally Posted by Fett 4 Real

I would say that the colors of the ROTJ should be close...being they were painted by the same person...theres are a few pics out there of the PP2 helmet but alof them dont show all the angles. Im really debating what I want to paint my first GMH. Id like to have like 6 of them to paint different ways each in all honesty but finances wont allow that right now. The dome and upper and lower cheeks are very close in color to the ROTJ...problem your gonna have is the back of the helmets areas...where there is very little reference and the refernce there is, is very poor...but once again VERY similar to the ROTJ hunter green with misting of grey paint...right ear looks the same style as well...I would get CC ears if possible get them looking like metal then go over them with dark grey and brown and then sand away the paint to get the effect...thats what i did for my ROTJ ears on my MS3...the left ear looks similar but also looks green in some of the pics there arent great pics of that side fo the helmet......The Red trim is a brighter looking red...kill stripes all but two appear to be the same red orange as the ROTJ the last two seem faded...theres alot of physical damage to the helmet in the pics not just the masked damage...to get that effect i would get the layered green over the silver and go back with a exacto once dry its a long process but it works...anyone have a better idea that that and im all ears...this is for the tiny stuff you cant mask...on this and the ROTJ theres "carbon" around alot of the damage i like to dry brush this on top of the green once its dry hope to get mine soon just dont know which style i want to do

Sorry Dom, you said this first... my bad, couldn't agree more.

I never get tired of seeing those old pics. Wishe the first one was higher res, I'd live to zoom in and read the labels on the paint jars!!!
Can't wait to start painting this helmet!

Originally Posted by Fett 4 Real

alex u got all the good pics

Nah, I just keep allot of cr@p*..LOL!! I think it was on one of Arts Ref CD's way back when...

But you said it best ROTJ reference is prob the best reference material..

Yeh in my SUPER RUN ON SENTENCE OF DOOM! LOL I think the red on the mandibles is for sure redder looking at them next to eachother but other than that Id say theyre identical in color...now the red maybe the same but not washed with dark wash?

Maybe the reason the PP2 mandible red appears different to the ROTJ and the V2 is the pink layer underneath. Depends on how heavy the red coat has been applied over the pink...

Yes, but red over pink should be red-pink, while the red over grey or silver should be red. What happens? The red over the pink looks more brown on PP#2 while the red over silver or grey looks more pinky on the RotJ. I think it's not because of what is under the red.

One thing to prove that the top red is not affected over other colours in these buckets is that the RotJ has a silver coat with a few grey spots and the colour looks the same for all the mandible, not diferent for the spots.

Originally Posted by KaanE

Yes, but red over pink should be red-pink, while the red over grey or silver should be red. What happens? The red over the pink looks more brown on PP#2 while the red over silver or grey looks more pinky on the RotJ. I think it's not because of what is under the red.

One thing to prove that the top red is not affected over other colours in these buckets is that the RotJ has a silver coat with a few grey spots and the colour looks the same for all the mandible, not diferent for the spots.

I think the opposite is true. Red over a light colour ie silver or white will increase the colours lighter tones. Red over a similar but lighter shade, especially when seen next to it, will make it look redder...

Surely you're correct because you have a lot more experience with colours than me, but I still think the PP#2 red colour is diferent than the others. It just looks diferent to me.

I wouldn't take what I've said as gospel KaanE, it just strikes me as likely how these colours would behave...
The airbrush is out so I will have a couple of test strips done shortly...

basically a lot and I mean a LOT of trial and error is going to be the only way here I think

I knowthat the red will behave differently over different colors and with washes as I have painted two ROTJ helmets in the last few months here since I havent painted over pink just silver I can say that using it over black and silver you get a completely different look over the silver its more red and it may have not been washed with a dark wash. I know not alot of people paint ROTJ all the time so its easy to think in terms of ESB and the mandables on it...the red on ROTJ is more of a red simply put...look at these two pics...and look at the lighting in the pic of sandy...that flash has the light playing tricks on you guys...the reds are the same IMHO on all three! I like using the first pic cause i have a copy of that photo I got at CV and the colors arent screwed up by a flash its daylight...in the pic you can see how the colors should apear. I think if going with airbrush spideys color choices on the 2nd page are DEAD on and to make that pink adding a light grey to tone it down is gonna be the way to go. That pink is also in the triangle on the helmets right side...I can picture the grey Id use in my head but very little red and very light grey. You guys are making me want to paint mine PP2 now.

Now this is all getting to be reeeeally good... great posts guys.

This is why I think Wisconson Central Maroon is not to dark at all, its great for ROTJ, and we all know ROTJ is darker than the PP2 just by looking at it.. sooo that means the underneath color will determine the outcome, as Terminal Fettler has stated. The pink underneath is the variable that forsure

So someone do the work on this and test this stuff out already!!

TF it was not an attack, I said that because I think it to be true

Well hopefully TF will come back with his results...but again lighting plays tricks with those reds. The angle of the helmet could also be adding to the light reflecting off it differently

Originally Posted by Fett 4 Real

Well hopefully TF will come back with his results...but again lighting plays tricks with those reds. The angle of the helmet could also be adding to the light reflecting off it differently

Yeah lighting and camera photos are definately tricky.. that's why its best to stick with what we know, same painter, painted at the same time, with the same paints..

you guys see mojo is gonna make ali ears?

Originally Posted by Fett 4 Real

you guys see mojo is gonna make ali ears?

Should be pretty sweet.. cant wait.

I want to show Sandy's helmets separate from eachother to make sure we are all clear on which helmets we are referring to.

Again taken from this picture:

This also shows the different lighting, camera's used, and any additional effects used to change the colors...yet we all know they "should" be relatively the same in terms of tone and color.

PP2 PROMO:



PP2/ GMH:



ROTJ:

btw on that photo of sandys paint setup one of the bottles is miskit friskit. It's the bottle to the right of the red.

Alex you hit that one out of the park, lighting man I think even more now that theyre deffinately the same colors, great stuff.

I was doing some color tests today and have a couple of pics below.
The first shows the same chips under slightly different lighting. All were taken with natural lighting to varying degrees. Starting with bright sunlight in the room, varying down to shades drawn and me standing between the window and the paint chips.
The colors are captioned.



I still feel the WC Maroon is too dark.

Here's another, along with some color tests for the "back panel" green.

Now this is a thread... lovin the fact that everyone is clubbing together!! awesome!
Hey TF... you done any colour testing yet?

caboose is looking good what about PRR Maroon? I think thats the color I have at home that is pretty close I think???

BEST TDH thread in years.
Thanks for all your hard work guys!!
In seeing the color tests above, I do see that C&O enchantment blue looks a little too blue, and not green enough.
Just goes to show that we dont know what we think we know when it comes to Fett.
Great work fellas!!

Originally Posted by Fett 4 Real

caboose is looking good what about PRR Maroon? I think thats the color I have at home that is pretty close I think???

PRR Maroon is a very dark shade. I use it on the dark reddish "damage" on the ESB mandibles, so in my opinion, I don't think it would be a good choice for the PP2 mandibles.

must be thinking Wisconsin then

Very interesting read here everyone.
I wish that I could contribute, but I've only painted one ROTJ helmet... so far
keep it up

Well, i did a couple of quick test strips, i won't confuse things with the colour i used as you guys seem to be on top of that... I can help out with the way i think they were layered and painted though. Is it possible that photo of all three helmets on the table with the paints is showing the pre shading stage? If thats the case then the first silver layer would have already been liquid masked. I used a black enamel misted straight onto the silver base, this needs to be fixed with a matt varnish to protect it from being rubbed off ( i didnt do this hence it rubbed off slightly ). Next i liquid masked the misted areas, on the ROTJ test i went straight on with the red, three good coats. On the PP 2 test i mixed the red with a light grey to achieve the pink colour, again three good coats. Liquid masked the pink, then three good coats of the red. There appears to be a subtle difference in the reds, the PP 2 test seems darker...

Ref Spideyfett's post above..

Here is a great pic of the ROTJ helmet, which seems to be darker to most, but is probably the same color as the PP2.. except the ROTJ has a Dark gray underneath color, which definatly is effecting the outcome of the red to the naked eye...

Interesting close up of the ROTJ helmet, i think that red paint has gone on really thick, four or five coats at least, maybe to darken it up with the light silver underneath, if the silver damage was liquid masked, the paint was left to fully dry as well, you can see the really flaky edge detail which only happens when you do this...

Awesome test swatch!! That looks great TF... what color did you go with for the pink? Looks good.

Originally Posted by terminal fettler

Interesting close up of the ROTJ helmet, i think that red paint has gone on really thick, four or five coats at least, maybe to darken it up with the light silver underneath, if the silver damage was liquid masked, the paint was left to fully dry as well, you can see the really flaky edge detail which only happens when you do this...

Here are a few more High Res pics.. Thanks to Art.

I'm reeeally starting to like this Caboose color though. I wanted to shy away from anything ESB, but I think you're on to something Superjedi.

I like it...

heres a question what material are you doing the color test on? are you priming the swatch and adding silver basecoat? Also theres clearly grey under the red whether or not its a full layer or just misted in splotches its there even on the PP2 as you can see in the hi res pics

Originally Posted by Spideyfett

I do have a few questions on your swatches though..

Were these Enamel or Arylic paints? Reason I ask this cause you know as well as I know that Floquil Enamel and Acrylic can dry a different tone.

How thin or thick did you apply the paint on your swatch? most of the paint application doing a layered effect are "waffer" thin applications... ("waffer" stolen from TF, ) this can also effect the outcome of the color.

**Were your swatches on White, Silver, or grey primer painted background?
As we have stated throughout the thread the base color that is on the bottom of these colors will definately effect the outcome of the color. In addtion, just doing layered vs topical swatches can and will make a difference on the color outcome...

Oops, just noticed the questions.
1) Except for the Caboose, which is Floquil enamel, all the other colors are Polly S acrylics.
2) I applied only enough to get even coverage. I did it by brush though, not sprayed.
3) I did my swatches on plain white styrene.

I'm still doing tests and next I plan to spray the colors over some dark primer.

Originally Posted by Fett 4 Real

heres a question what material are you doing the color test on? are you priming the swatch and adding silver basecoat? Also theres clearly grey under the red whether or not its a full layer or just misted in splotches its there even on the PP2 as you can see in the hi res pics

The colour tests I've done are on plastic card primed with grey, then a solid silver base coat. The pre shading is done with black, not grey, which is how I see this layer. Because the black is only applied as a thin misted layer, i don't think it effects the red layer... or the pink layer...and it is only localized around certain silver damage, not all over the surface...( as in the 3 helmet shot on the desk? )

Originally Posted by Spideyfett

Awesome test swatch!! That looks great TF... what color did you go with for the pink? Looks good.



Here are a few more High Res pics.. Thanks to Art.

The pink is the red added to a light grey to achieve the right contrast...

Do anyone has Floquil Boxcar Red at hand, to do a test with this colour? Here's a pic of the Boxcar Red, one with weathering (right) and one without (left). I think it looks pretty close?

I may at home Ill look when I get there...but i dont have my air brush anymore...will see what i can come up with