Painting the Grant McCune Helmet (GMH)

This is all fascinating. But the big problem with comparing photos to discuss a color's true value can be wildly misleading. You just can't determine the real color this way. From lighting, to film stock, to print, to web colors, these pics have gone through a slew of color distortions that simply cannot give you any true way to nail down the correct color outside of pure guesswork. Just because a photo of an original helmet is shot in sunlight doesn't mean you can paint something and shoot it in sunlight and match that color photo-wise and have actually accomplished a real match outside of the photo. For starters, film stock alone has a huge impact on color response, especially if you are now using a digital camera with CCD's, not color film negative like what was used in the original production photos. Even digital photos of the exhibits have similar issues with CCD's.

Obviously even if we had the original paint list, though, getting a match is still difficult because weathering makes a huge difference in the final color. Maybe the current owner of the pp2 could take mercy on us and offer up a photo of the bucket next to a color card. (Did anyone who took pics at the exhibits ever use a color card for at least one shot???)

In the meantime, I do think you guys are doing as good a job as can be expected under the circumstances and I look forward to seeing what comes of it. I am sure there are going to be some awesome PP2's come as a result of this thread.
 
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This is true. But your points are what makes it more interesting. We can all have an opinion on how these helmets were painted and how the colours should look...
 
I'm debating between painting my GMH or displaying it as-is. This thread is tipping me toward painting.

Anyone who has seen my other paintups knows that I always use rattle cans for everything. I've got a box of floquils and humbrols and other fancy paints too, but I've long since forgotten what's in it. I think it's all the RS ESB colors.

I'm going to play around with some rattle can stuff to see if I can get things close, but I'm not optimistic... It's that pink layer. I don't see myself finding a spray can that will look even close to that.

Either way, I think I'm going to practice on an MR cast to get used to the process / colors / weathering. Thankfully I'll have plenty of time between now and when I get the helmet to decide!
 
what am amazing thread! I can't wait to see more and to see a consensus as I"m supposed to paint a friends ROTJ helmet sometime soon.
 
I also use rattle cans...other than the pink its gonna be ROTJ colors....I sure of this...and i know your pretty good with that. For the pink Im thinking theres only spots of it you may be able to topically apply it mixing some boxcar red or wisconson central maroon....I looked at the two of those as being the closest just now in the garage...the boxcar seems more muddy than the WCM though so I dont know how good it will look for the bright looking red on the PP2
 
Whew. . . finally on page 2! :lol:
OK, got another set of samples done. Took me all afternoon to set this up.
These were taken in my living room under a lamp and with flash. Slight variations in brightness are from holding the camera at slightly increasing distances.

I began by spraying a piece of white styrene with silver, then misted it in spots with flat black. Once dry, I masked off random patches and laid down a base green. Then I added "simulated cheeks" with a couple of different colors, and did tests on 2 shades for the kill stripes as well. I went with the Caboose down the center, because as I mentioned earlier, I really feel the WC Maroon is too dark, and I plan to use Caboose when I do my PP2.

The color key is on the image, and obviously remains the same thru all 4 parts.

Templatecompare.jpg


Tomorrow I'll continue messing around with some greens for the back panels.
 
Man, awesome work!! Those test strips are fantastic!
What's the base green you used?
Any thoughts on the green on the back of the helmet?
I'm really waffling on the enchantment blue, it looks great in the test strips!
 
obi sean kenobi said:
I'm really waffling on the enchantment blue, it looks great in the test strips!
Click to expand...

Well, that settles it. . . I'm getting some waffles for breakfast. :lol:

Garrett, that C & O Blue is an odd color, really shifts depending on the light.
Here's an interesting thing about the upper cheeks when I check the reference pictures, no matter if it's one taken with more direct flash, or indirect flash, or more studio style lighting: the RGB values consistently show the color to be more blue than green.
There's a little "eyedropper" color selection tool I use in my paint program, and if you hover over a spot on a picture it pops up a little block that shows the RGB values. No matter what spot I select, whether it's on a lighter picture or a darker picture, it always shows the Blue value to be higher than the Green value.
Maybe not the most scientific method, and it certainly won't help in nailing down a specific color, but it's led me to believe that the upper cheek color is certainly more blue than green. Hope that makes sense.

Still doing some more tests with the darker green for the rear panels.
 
SJ I think I said that when spidey said to use RLM73 that its more blue than that just saying :) you guys should really try and read some of my long *** drawn out posts. I did get taught color theory and Im pretty good with color matching stuff.
 
Lufo1138 said:
This is all fascinating. But the big problem with comparing photos to discuss a color's true value can be wildly misleading. You just can't determine the real color this way. From lighting, to film stock, to print, to web colors, these pics have gone through a slew of color distortions that simply cannot give you any true way to nail down the correct color outside of pure guesswork. Just because a photo of an original helmet is shot in sunlight doesn't mean you can paint something and shoot it in sunlight and match that color photo-wise and have actually accomplished a real match outside of the photo. For starters, film stock alone has a huge impact on color response, especially if you are now using a digital camera with CCD's, not color film negative like what was used in the original production photos. Even digital photos of the exhibits have similar issues with CCD's..
Click to expand...

I think most of us have some sense of color vs print etc. , and are going into this whole thread knowning those issues you speak of.
"unless we have the real prop in front of us" ultimately we will never truely know. But the process of elimination and knowing what we do know about techniques used and paints used is a great start to come up with a "universal" list..

I know for a fact that RS when doing his ESB list changed colors at least three or four times...the one constant was he knew the brand, Floquil, and the paint list that would be avaliable during that time.. So, this is what makes this thread so unique IMO. We have some talented people working on this list, Together.. from Superjedi, Terminal Fettler and Fett for Real to say the least...(y)

superjedi said:
Garrett, that C & O Blue is an odd color, really shifts depending on the light.
Here's an interesting thing about the upper cheeks when I check the reference pictures, no matter if it's one taken with more direct flash, or indirect flash, or more studio style lighting: the RGB values consistently show the color to be more blue than green.
There's a little "eyedropper" color selection tool I use in my paint program, and if you hover over a spot on a picture it pops up a little block that shows the RGB values. No matter what spot I select, whether it's on a lighter picture or a darker picture, it always shows the Blue value to be higher than the Green value.
Maybe not the most scientific method, and it certainly won't help in nailing down a specific color, but it's led me to believe that the upper cheek color is certainly more blue than green. Hope that makes sense.

Still doing some more tests with the darker green for the rear panels.
Click to expand...

Eric, I just bought a ton of paint, I think you and Fett for Real are 100% correct, definately more blue for the under cheek, but the C&O Blue is not it... I'll post a semi painted helmet shortly with some new findings. (y)

MAN PAINTS AREN'T CHEAP!!!:(
 
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Spideyfett said:
Eric, I just bought a ton of paint, I think you and Fett for Real are 100% correct, definately more blue for the under cheek, but the C&O Blue is not it... I'll post a semi painted helmet shortly with some new findings. (y)

MAN PAINTS AREN'T CHEAP!!!:(
Click to expand...

Look forward to seeing some tests on a "3-D" palette. (y)
And yes. . . I agree PAINTS AREN'T CHEAP! I know the guys at my hobby shop start salivating when they see me walk in the door. :lol:
 
Next phase of testing: back panel greens.
I sprayed 3 greens onto my existing template. Again, taken with flash from various distances ranging from around 3 feet in the upper left corner, then getting progressively further away till I was 6 or 7 feet away in the lower right corner. Colors are identified in the image and the colors on the "face" are the same as in my first image.

Templatecompare2.jpg


Impressions? Looking at it this way, I think the So. Sylvan Green is definitely too light. I thought the CNW might be too dark, but it's growing on me. Ack! Get it off! Get it off! :lol:
 
superjedi said:
Impressions? Looking at it this way, I think the So. Sylvan Green is definitely too light. I thought the CNW might be too dark, but it's growing on me. Ack! Get it off! Get it off! :lol:
Click to expand...

Awesome test swatches, I definately still think the CNW Green is perfect for the back.(y)
 
Okay, here are the first tests done on an MR FP Helmet... so this is a Test and only a Test.

Somethings you must know first..my camera SUCKS!
Second, These are just test colors... I'm still pretty happy with my list, there are some colors that i'm on the fence with...

These are all enamel paints..
I choose some of these paints because I felt that eliminating certin paints is something that should be shown as well.

Colors I like:
In this test I painted a silver base color, layered.
I'm still happy with the Dome and Cheeks color Dunkelgrun RLM 82, once weathered it really just looks right and does what its suppose to... can't explain it.

I tried the Caboose for the Mandibles, Great call Superjedi... (y)
My next test will include the WC Maroon, just to make sure before I change my own list.. LOL!

Colors I dont't like:
I used Dark Sea Blue from Model Masters for the under cheek... NOPE, way too blue. For my next test I will be using Schwarzgrun RLM 70 which is more blue than the RLM 73 Green I recommended... I'm pretty sure that's what I will go with on my final list. (y)

Absolutely HATE the Skin Tone Warm Tint color from Model Masters for the pink color, too orange, and I honestly don't know what I was thinking.... Cr@ p!(n)

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PP2 TEST #1.jpg
 
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