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  1. jwinnington's Avatar
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    Jun 14, 2010, 6:53 AM - Re: Origin of The Dent! #226

    Ok. I have read and am still reading the link you sent me and this is getting to be a little to big for even me. From what i got from it and the interviews is whatever GL puts on video is G-Cannon and that comes first. Even the deleted scenes are G-Cannon. So in ep 3 where Grievious kills Shaak Ti, that is supposed to have happen and therefore Starkiller could never have fought her and also throws out some of the cartoon network scenes. I've cut and pasted this comment as it is the only reference to our conversation.

    In 2008, Jim Ward commented on the subject when discussing Lucasfilm's marketing plan for the Star Wars: The Clone Wars TV series:

    "We've stuck to a very clear branding strategy for the past decade. This is Star Wars. Individual movies come and go, as do TV shows, video games, books. They all contribute to the lore of Star Wars, but in the end it is one saga and that saga is called Star Wars. We've wanted to send a clear message to our fans that everything we do is part of that overall saga."
    ―Jim Ward

    Because of this one statement, I am to believe that the current clone wars tv series is G-Cannon and therefore historical content. the novels are just sketchy interpretations of such and can be discredited at any time. That just makes everything too confusing.

    Just to remind everybody that this all started with the dent theory that Boba was using his fathers helmet but due to him using the helmet as a IED. That now cant be true.

    I still plan to talk to Sandsweet on this but i now believe you may be right when you say I will be disappointed.
    Thanks for the education
  2. iruss71's Avatar
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    Jun 19, 2010, 8:51 PM - Re: Origin of The Dent! #227

    There is a problem though, because the dent was created in ep 2, which is ok.
    If Boba did indeed take Jangos helmet, then why does the dent look like it has been recently hit with blaster fire?
    jangos dent and Bobas dent look different anyway, I could be wrong but, if I had a dent in my helmet from somebody elses, then I would just paint it to cover it up!
    Still, it does look cool!
  3. Peregrinus's Avatar
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    Oct 14, 2010, 4:11 AM - Re: Origin of The Dent! #228

    Once more, with feeling...

    Jango's helmet is smaller than Boba's, as Jango was shorter than Boba by several inches. The entire rest of Jango's armour is different from Boba's, too -- plates, sash, vest, flight suit, gauntlets, etc. Jango's helmet has a longish oval dent up on the crown over the left ear running front-to-back. Boba has a round crater down on his forehead.

    But if that ain't enough, in the Clone Wars animated series -- which, much as we might not like it, is as canon as the films in Uncle George's eyes and beyond contestation -- Jango's helmet has been destroyed. It is an ex-helmet. Boba does not wear his father's helmet ever. If he scavenged it after the Battle of Geonosis, it was was to use in his plan to kill Mace Windu with a thermal detonator hidden inside it. He will start wearing his own partial Mandalorian armour in this season, but the helmet he will eventually get is not Jango's.

    The dent in Jango's helmet was put there as an homage to the crater in Boba's. Nothing more. *sigh*

    --Jonah
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    Oct 14, 2010, 2:17 PM - Re: Origin of The Dent! #229

    Whew, there are sure a ton of posts here.

    It is my contention that the books/comics, Enemy of the Empire, and the Mandalorian Armor trilogy, are the origins.

    As I recall from the books, most of Boba's armor was destroyed by the Sarlaac. He had a bunch of extra equipment stored in a cave on Tatooine (also where Dengar helped nurse him back to health). If I remember correctly, the author made a point of showing that Boba was adamant about fixing up his original helmet and not using a spare. During his [Fetts] downtime, some guy came across similar armor and started posing as Boba Fett. Fett tracked him down, killed him, took his armor, and assimilated that armor into his setup.

    But, everybody is free to believe whichever story they like. I think the varied opinions is what makes this character great; the mystery is so captivating.
  5. Peregrinus's Avatar
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    Oct 14, 2010, 4:53 PM - Re: Origin of The Dent! #230

    Close. Jodo was mistaken for Boba before ROTJ. It was just after Boba was presumed dead that he began trading on Boba's reputaion and letting people think he was Boba in order to get higher fees that Boba decided to take steps.

    --Jonah
  6. BGHunter is offline BGHunter
    Oct 15, 2010, 7:41 PM - Re: Origin of The Dent! #231

    Has any one else noticed that in the fight seen with jango and obi wan, jangos range finder rotates backwards 90 degress in the seen were he fires his jet back,
    and Jango gets( His) dent after head butting Obi , clear as day. And his lid is def not bobas
    And unfortunantly CW is cannon thats why K,T stopped impiral commandos novel
  7. Peregrinus's Avatar
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    Oct 16, 2010, 1:27 AM - Re: Origin of The Dent! #232

    The rangefinder going back was CG and makes no sense at all -- nor is the slot able to accomodate such a movement. *sigh*

    I'll have to re-watch for the umpty-zillionth time to see if his dent only shows up after headbutting Obi-Wan.

    And Karen stopped writing due more to editorial difficulties between her and the publisher. Clone Wars altering Mando canon was just a nail in the coffin.

    --Jonah
  8. BGHunter is offline BGHunter
    Oct 16, 2010, 3:33 AM - Re: Origin of The Dent! #233

    Yeah i did know that the range finder was cg but still interesting tho its not going to make me go and dremal out my jango right ear range finder cap an the thing about KT i know its coman noladge , but its very anoying that they make the CW and then bang mandos are peace loving pacifist hippys, nd the dent you see it for the first time just before jango goes over the edge of the landing platform after there scufl and if you look closly and pause and replay and pause you see he head butts Obi in the exact spot the dent apears and the next shot of the lid there it is
  9. Demagol's Avatar
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    Nov 26, 2012, 8:37 AM - Re: Origin of The Dent! #234

    Jango's dent is from hitting the side wall on the Kamino platform when he loses his jetpack... [The edge of the jetpack dents his helmet] and also when he loses his rangefinder.


    Sorry if anyone already mentioned that... I tried to read as much of this thread as possible.
    Last edited by Demagol; Feb 11, 2013 at 5:40 PM.
  10. Member Since
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    May 18, 2013, 6:58 PM - Re: Origin of The Dent! #235

    It is not the same helmet I recently watched the entire cartoon network star wars the clone wars series. In season 4 if I remember correctly boba uses his father's helmet to trick jedis into lifting it and it sets off an explosion in a later scene you see a piece of the helmet it was ripped to shreads...... not the same helmet
  11. Amanaman's Avatar
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    May 23, 2013, 7:01 AM - #236

    I really hope they don't explain where Boba got his armour from because it just adds to his mystery and for me thats what makes Boba such a great character.

    In saying that though I don't think Bobas helmet is Jangos because I agree that the dent is in totally the wrong place....theres no way George Lucas would just slap it on in 'round-a-bout' the right place, he would have put it right where it belongs.

    He knew how popular BF is with so many fans.
    Quote Quote Posted from Android app
  12. R3NEGADE's Avatar
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    Jun 8, 2013, 2:15 AM - Re: Origin of The Dent! #237

    I like to think when he was young and small he used his father's resized armor then when he out grew it and couldn't get his hands on beskar he had lesser quality copy made of it to fit out of durasteel or plate. Then later replace pieces of it with Jasters and has a whole new suit made when he becomes mandalore. Hence why his cheap dura helmet gets dented somewhere along the way. That's just what makes sense to me I don't think it needs some fantastical story to it.

    Sent from my Aka'jor-class shuttle
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    Jul 24, 2013, 9:29 PM - Re: Origin of The Dent! #238

    I don't think the dent being different proves anything. SW contains plenty of inconsistencies that they hoped we wouldn't notice. The look of the Ep 1 Yoda puppet looks nothing like ESB Yoda. Anakin's saber is small and chromed, but when Luke gets it, it is bigger, has a d-ring and satin. Vader's helmet changes in each film. The special edition Fett footage in Jabba's palace had Fett's jetpack with damage from the sarlacc pit scene. The original Special edition cg Jabba looked nothing like the ESB version. The falcon's details change. Han's binders disappeared when he was released from the carbonite. . . In one of the BTS videos for CW, George mentioned that Boba (teen) would not yet fit THE armor so he would not be wearing it. No matter what the right answer is today, it might change tomorrow anyway.
  14. Danabanana's Avatar
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    Aug 3, 2013, 5:55 AM - Re: Origin of The Dent! #239

    Interesting reading! :-)

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
  15. Matthewr7935's Avatar
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    Aug 23, 2013, 10:27 AM - Re: Origin of The Dent! #240

    I think the helmets are different but boba took his amour any way I felt that boba would take his fathers head of a helmet just so he could have it


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  16. Rhapsodyred99's Avatar
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    Aug 23, 2013, 11:42 AM - Re: Origin of The Dent! #241

    just a few pics from starwars helmets:

    before heading into the arena



    Shooting the Critter


    Arena again:



    Kamino pre dent:



    Kamino post dent:



    Dent is not in the same place, dent is not the same shape as boba's. Dent is there on kamino, Dent is there prior to getting rolled in the arena. I suppose you could argue that the filmakers just knew a dent was in about that spot on the boba lid and did not take any time at all to research it whatsoever and just stuck it there, but I find that unlikely.
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  17. Jigglenomicon's Avatar
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    Sep 11, 2013, 7:28 PM - Re: Origin of The Dent! #242

    This is a better image from the Enemy of the Empire Comics (which is not canon ?)
    Vader deflects his blaster / laser thingy
    Click image for larger version. 

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    and here you can see it more clear
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Just my two cents.
  18. Gregor's Avatar
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    Sep 13, 2013, 9:29 PM - Re: Origin of The Dent! #243

    I think the gag Lucas and the animators had in mind, because Jango hitting his head on the Slave I door was done in post-production by the animators, was that Jango hits his head on the door often. Since Boba is an exact clone of Jango, he has inherited his father's poor depth perception while wearing the helmet.

    And they further tie/retcon that into the Stormtrooper in A New Hope that first hits his head on the door on the Death Star, suggesting that this particular Stormtrooper was one of the last remaining clones created from a thinly stretched sample of Jango's DNA.
  19. Member Since
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    Jan 13, 2014, 2:16 AM - Re: Origin of The Dent! #244

    Quote Corin Shadowblayde said: View Post
    Isn't that the point of Stormtrooper armor?
    Lol storm Troopers are like red shirts in Star Trek!
  20. Peregrinus's Avatar
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    Feb 10, 2014, 4:03 AM - Re: Origin of The Dent! #245

    Streamlining everything that's been put out so far...

    -Conflicting stories in the EU as to the origin of Boba's "dent" (really a crater), and how many he has
    -Conflicting opinions as to when Jango's helmet acquires its dent
    -EU fluff being treated as the same as explicit film canon as far as armor properties (beskar and all that)

    See what I can do to concisely bash things into clear order...

    Going by real-world chronology, Boba came first. Allowing for swap-out-able accessories (gauntles, pack, cape, etc.) his armor and helmet in ROTJ were intended to be the same as the armor and helmet he had in ESB. Lucasfilm Archives folks have proven several times that they can't spot the minute differences fan costumers have spotted over the years. Indeed, Lucasfilm sent the Pre-Pro 3 helmet to Master Replicas, thinking it was the ESB Hero, and refused to belive/accept they'd been mistaken when the expert MR called in to create a master for the paint apps pointed out the error. The damage and paint apps are too similar for mere coincidence to allow for the same stuff to happen in the same places.

    Remember all three original films were out before home video had really fully exploded as a thing. That was still an era when filmmakers took shortcuts and had a "enh, whatever" attitude toward continuity of minutiae. Frame-flops, differences in costumes/props/sets/models/whatever were never expected to receive repeated close scrutiny. People would see it in the theater one, twice, a dozen times, and done and gone.

    Later, from the novels and comics, we have no less than three separate stories of Boba's escape from the Sarlacc. One of those ended with him going back in, so one of the others could be considered to follow onto that story, but that guy has seriously got the worst luck. The EU has also given us multiple and conflicting stories as to the origin of the crater in his helmet. I'll draw attention to what's been said before, at the risk of bringing real-world stuff into it. My Mando armor is 16-gauge stainless steel. One of the chest plates accidentally got backed over in the driveway. As in, by a car. It wasn't bent, dented, scraped, ruined, or mussed in any way. I'll deal with beskar and the "duraseel is ****" stuff that got added later on in a bit. Point is, it takes a lot of concentrated, directed force to bash out an impact crater like that. There are only two possibilities that wouldn't have resulted in a broken neck for the wearer: 1) it wasn't being worn at the time; 2) It's some kind of active ablative armor, and some of the incoming kineic energy was dissipated/redirected outward in lost material, while the thinner remaining material deformed inward.

    As stated before, also, the costumers for AOTC had full access to all of the Boba stuff in the archives, includeing no less than six helmets all with identical dents in identical places. If they wanted Jango's armor to be (or, rather, eventually become) Boba's, they would have made the collar and back plate overlap and lock together, rather than gap by an inch. They would have made the groin armor go all the way out to the sides and lock together with the "butt plate". They would have made the knees and gauntlets the same. And, most damning, Tem Morrison is 5'7". Alan Harris was, what, 6'2" at the time he test-fitted the armor? And Jeremy Bulloch was 6'1" when he wore it in the movies. Jango's helmet is noticeably smaller side-by-side with Boba's, symmetry issues aside. The cheekbones are also different shapes. And on and on.

    We got several new EU sources telling conflicting stories after AOTC of what Boba did with his father's body, armor, and helmet. Anyone who's done metal armor knows it's far easier to just make a new set of plates than go to the trouble of resizing existing ones. The outlines won't necessarily match, let alone any mounts, sensors, padding, internal systems, etc. Plus, Mandalorians have a reputation of being a practical people -- I doubt Boba would ruin his dad's armor by making it small enough for him to wear... for a few months until he outgrew it. Then what? As for the helmet... Even if Boba hadn't done blowed it up to try to kill Mace, they are so heavily personalized for the wearer, it's just simpler to get one of your own set up for your own preferences and eyeline and whatnot. Notice, in the EU, whatever else is done with the body and the armor, the grave marker is, wait for it, the Mando's helmet. Left to gather bird poop and mud.

    Now, cultural in-universe timeline.

    The Clone Wars has given us Mandalore and its "moon" Concordia. Last I checked, if a mon had the same mass and gravity and atmospheric density as its primary, it's not a moon. They're co-orbiting trojan planets. Concordia sure seems a lot like the Mandalore we see in the comics and novels set later on. The "Mandalore" we saw in the series is a good match for a desert planet in the system shown in the Atlas named Kalevala. My massaging of things to make it all fit is that some thousands of years ago, the Taung found these trojan planets with the catalogue names of Kalevala and Concordia and they settled them. After the events chronicled in KOTOR and TOR, he Republic smacked the Mandalorians down hard, turning their primarily-settled world, called Mandalore, into a desert.

    This would have been the birth of the New Mandalorians, and it would have been an ongoing point of contention for centuries. By about 50-60BBY, the New Mandalorians had gained the ascendancy and outlawed the wearing of the armor. Out on Concord Dawn, the chief of the Protectors tried to enforce this and was killed by his subordinate, Jaster Mereel, for not being a true Mandalorian. He rallied others who felt the same to his cause and it was shaping up to be a coup of the New Mandalorians back on Kalevala-Mandalore until more conquest-minded True Mandalorians split off and formed the Death Watch. They fought. One of Jaster's old comrades who had toed the party line and shelved his armor gave Jaster sanctuary. The Death Watch killed him and his wife and took his daughter. His son helped Jaster escpae, and was adopted by Jaster. That's Jaster Mereel's family crest on Boba's right chest plate.

    That kid was Jango. The last Mandalore we know of for sure was Mandalore the Uniter, who was ambushed and murdered around 100BBY. I haven't seen anything that says Jaster or Jango claimed the title, even if they were acting as such. And, while the mask of the Mandalore had been passed from one to the next in antiquity, that tradition was broken long before this time.

    By the time we get to the Clone Wars years later, the Death Watch has been quietly rebuilding on Concordia, for much of this time a sparsely-populated world mostly just used for mining. Something seems to have happened to Kalevala by the time the Empire had annexed the system, as we don't see it at all, and Concordia is now recognized as the planet Mandalore, now being strip-mined by the Empire. This is the world we still see decades later in the Legacyof the Force books.

    Meanwhile, in between there, after the Clone Wars, Boba had gone back to the Mandalore Sector and tried to have a normal life as a Protector on Concord Dawn, himself. Got married, had a daughter. That lasted about three years -- but that's where we first see him having his own armor and the dented helmet.



    The stories of him getting the dent from Vader or one of the Emperor's Guards' force pike butt or whatever are either misinformation put out there by Boba himself or stories told about him in hushed tones around blazing garbage bins in back alleys wherever hardened spacers gather to swap tales of terror. *heh*

    All this -- all. this. -- to point out we still don't know where Boba first got his famous dent, that even if he has multiple backup armor pieces, he wore but one helmet in ESB and ROTJ (despite the folks at Lucasflm either not knowing or not caring if they grabbed the right helmet/armor), the helmet survived the sarlacc and he wore it for decades further until finally being browbeaten into accepting a new one in the Legacy of the Force books, and that none of that is what we saw Jango wearing in AOTC.

    Deal with it. :P

    --Jonah
  21. rubio95's Avatar
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    Feb 14, 2014, 11:35 AM - Re: Origin of The Dent! #246

    Great information, Perigrinus, and I can certainly appreciate the amount of work and revision that your post took.

    That said, I hate this discussion.

    Prior to the prequel trilogy, Fett's dent was cool and a sweet little detail. After the prequel trilogy, it became a 'gag'. The stormtrooper in ANH became a tie-in to the prequels, with Jango hitting his little head on the Slave I, which itself was robbed of some of it's intrigue. It's amazing to me, on the production side of the prequels, that so much effort (pertaining to Boba Fett) was spent on 'tying-in' various aspects of the original trilogy (the markings on the clone troopers' helmets, rangefinders, even the visors deeply resembling Fett), yet Jango's costume was so vastly different. The overall design is similar, but why not just use the existing armor? Or make copies? Why are there ZERO markings on Jango's armor? Yet Boba had several 'symbols' all over (chest, shoulder, helmet ears, jetpack[s])? The entire character of Jango Fett makes my stomach turn, from his mannerisms to his lines, costume, etc. He WOULD at least look cool, if he wasn't a poorly-conceived and poorly-written character, and in my opinion his design isn't a fresh take on the idea of Mandalorian armor, it's just a ripoff of my favorite character. And that's to say nothing of the ridiculous obsession of the prequel trilogy to make EVERYTHING TIED TO EVERYTHING ELSE. The prequels made everything about Boba Fett just a hand-me-down version of Jango Fett. Ugh.
    In the events of The Empire Strikes Back, Boba Fett comes in, essentially out of nowhere, and changes the course of the trilogy. His backstory, even years after the end of the trilogy, is simply that he's run into Skywalker, Solo and Calrissian a few times, and he doesn't like them. That's it.

    Sorry for the rant.

    As far as the analysis of the armor itself, I agree that if a person was wearing it when the dent was made, that individual would have died instantly!

    Regarding reshaping/modifying the armor, I seem to recall in one of the "Tales" books (not sure if it was Jabba's Palace or Bounty Hunters), that it says that the cost of a set of that armor is roughly equivalent to the cost of a Star Destroyer. That seems ridiculous, but I remember reading it. So, in that regard, resizing would be much more cost-efficient, albeit a waste of time, since Boba Fett would grow into it too quickly to justify the modifications that would be necessary for sizing.

    I don't mean to come off as a hater, it just makes me sad of how Boba Fett has been treated by his creators.

    And I CAN'T STAND Wango-Bango-Jango (just ask dynamic1).
  22. Peregrinus's Avatar
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    Feb 14, 2014, 3:09 PM - Re: Origin of The Dent! #247

    I feel exactly the same way. It doesn't have to be tied up in a neat little bow.

    Jango was originally going to have his armor painted the same colors as Boba, but when George saw the bare-metal look of the freshly cold-cast and polished plates during a test fitting, he liked it a lot and said to leave it like that.

    In-universe, I've always felt that the armor was whatever was under the flight suit. A pressure/anti-g suit like what early astronauts wore, or what Fenn Shysa wore in his debut issue -- incidentally, while in a fight. Had his helmet on, had his gauntlets, had his belt and ammo pouches, had his cape and a jetpack. No flight suit or body armor. We know Star Wars has stuff like "armorweave" fabric. By my lights, what makes Mando armor so awesome is that it's like the Star Wars equivalent of a fremen stillsuit (from Dune). There are other manufacturers, but the stuff they make is the most advanced, efficient, lightweight, unhindering, whatever, one can get. Armorweave fabric, something like anti-ballistic gel, perhaps enclosed plate rinforcement at high-impact points like shoulders and knees... That's the Mandalorian armor. The flight suit keeps it from getting dirty or snagged on stuff. The flak vest is another layer of armorweave protection, as well as being a plate carrier. And then the familiar torso armor is just an outer, easily-replaceable ablative layer. The first line of defense.

    The gauntlets are self-contained weapons/equipment platforms, easily swap-out-able for specific mission needs. Likewise the knees and jetpack are interchangeable, depending. To say nothing of accessories like sash, belt(s), sidearms, tools for pockets, utility pouches, cape/poncho, trophies, etc. The helmet is likely the piece of hard kit least likely to be replaced. This, to me, is a perfect in-universe explanation for why Boba's body armor is a different shade of green, with a different color of primer under it, than his helmet. His helmet is original-issue. The plates are replacements. Again in-universe, while the fitting and individualization of the armored pressure suit might be the equivalent of a small car in cost, the outer plates will never be that expensive (unless they're made of beskar and blah blah rarity and Mando smiths). Even with compact tractor beams and readouts of whatever systems the chest display is displaying, and possibly-exotic impact-absorbing padding materials lining them, those plates would never be more than maybe the equivalent of a couple thousand dollars, plug-n-play ready. Probably less.

    My favorite, air-out-of-the-sails theory as to "the origin of the dent" is... Boba showed up on Concord Dawn a couple years after the Clone Wars ended and tried to live a normal life, signed up as a Protector, who were rebuilding their ranks after being wiped out almost to a man toward the end of the wars. I like to think that, when he completed his apprenticeship and made Journeyman, he was given one of the helmets of a Protector who had taken a bit of shrapnel in the head during the Clone Wars that had snapped his neck on impact. Y'know, tried on one then another until they found one that fit right. Luck of the draw, "inherited" from an unnamed, unlucky Mandalorian Protector who didn't duck fast enough.

    --Jonah

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