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  1. closedwheel 172's Avatar
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    Apr 2004
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    May 26, 2004, 9:32 AM - Mystery or Enigma.... which came first?? #1

    I was just reading & checking out the pics from EK213's recent acquisition (nice stuff EK213 by the way) & was wondering if anyone has noticed that the Fang/Mystery helmet has a slight level difference between the triangle recesses just above the visor?
    The left (when looking @ the helmet) is slightly higher. Got my Mystery the other day but noticed the irregularity in pics b4 purchase (I'm a modeler w/ an industrial design background so this should be easy to fix as well as stalk angle & refab'ing stalk ear cover).

    If I'm not mistaken, the pics from E2K13's have the same irregularity!

    Which brings me to my suspicions - that the Marrow or Enigma is possibly a RECAST of a Mystery....

    I'm still waiting to hear Master tylerdurden's history of the Enigma.... (o.k. o.k., I thought the Master thing was a nice touch...) LOL...

    See the following & keep in mind reduction tolerances if my suspicions are true:
    http://tdh.prop-planet.com/viewtopic...c=9551&forum=2

    -Rod
  2. Jodo_Kast's Avatar
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    May 26, 2004, 9:43 AM - Re: Mystery or Enigma.... which came first?? #2

    The story behind these two helmets is that they both came from the same mold. If that is true, they would both be near identical.

    Don't take this personally but it is extremely dangerous to throw the term "recast" around without some rock solid proof. It's easy to say but really hard to take back. Let's assume the best of our brothers unless the worst is confirmed.
  3. Bobo's Avatar
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    May 26, 2004, 9:48 AM - Re: Mystery or Enigma.... which came first?? #3

    First of all, I don't think you should jump the gun so quickly and assume that it is potentially a recast. Unless you have thorough proof that it is. I think this has already been brought up though.I don't believe it is a recast at all, but it is believed that the MS and the MH did come from the same mold though (as mentioned in a previous thread). It has also been mentioned that the MS seems to have sharper definitions and some better detail.

    And yes, both the MS and MH have the left triangle higher, it's one of those details that jumps out at you from a "Mystery" helmet, I also have pictures of my MS helmet in the helmet forums in which you can see this as well. But just because 2 helmets have the same triangles and they both have the top most keyhole in the back which is deformed, you can't say they are a recast right off the bat. Just like Jodo_Kast mentioned, you need to be 300% sure you're right before throwing the term "recast" around.

    Tylerdurden is working on a history lesson for us all, and I would just wait until he releases his findings. Until then, I don't see why this topic should have another thread with the same remarks as the others?!

    Bartek
  4. Member Since
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    May 26, 2004, 10:22 AM - Re: Mystery or Enigma.... which came first?? #4

    I always thought the triangles were placed that way on purpose. When they're at the same level but painted each with contrasting colors, the brighter colored triangle would probably appear higher or larger than the darker one. So darkly painted triangle would need to be placed higher to give the illusion that it's at the same level as the brightly painted one. That's my theory anyway.
  5. closedwheel 172's Avatar
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    May 26, 2004, 1:00 PM - Re: Mystery or Enigma.... which came first?? #5

    Well, I must apologize, which I have no problem doing, if, by theoretically proposing that something may be a recast has offended anybody. I'm up for learning as much as possible from anybody as to the nuances within our forum. Intellectual property I have always found to be the most interesting thing to be debated...

    However, I did just find the thread dated 5/17 regarding the appropriation of ur Enigma helmet as well as what may be the coining of the phrase "Enigma" by Jodo-Kast.

    I therefore find it interesting that u feel this topic, which is obviously hot at the moment, has had enough discussion.

    The 2 helmets cannot share the same mold being in different countries so I assume u mean the same master. Sounds like something Jedi - find the master & u will find the key.

    I'm sure tylerdurden will enlighten us all. I will take ur advice & think twice about using the term recast. I would love to discuss the topic of cast & recast. I guess it's the 5 years being schooled as an industrial designer in my college days that fires my interest...

    -Rod
  6. E2K13's Avatar
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    May 26, 2004, 1:04 PM - Re: Mystery or Enigma.... which came first?? #6


    closedwheel 172 wrote:

    I was just reading & checking out the pics from EK213's recent acquisition (nice stuff EK213 by the way) & was wondering if anyone has noticed that the Fang/TK409 Mystery helmet has a slight level difference between the triangle recesses just above the visor?
    The left (when looking @ the helmet) is slightly higher. Got my Mystery the other day but noticed the irregularity in pics b4 purchase (I'm a modeler w/ an industrial design background so this should be easy to fix as well as stalk angle & refab'ing stalk ear cover).

    If I'm not mistaken, the pics from E2K13's have the same irregularity!

    -Rod

    I plan on taking a ton of progress pics throughout the process I am going through. I do see the irregularity you speak of but i don't know if I would go so far as to say the MS or the MH was a Recast of the other. It will be cool to hear the history on each. I just can't bag on someones work till the facts are stated. I couldn't be happier with my decision to buy the one from MS though. It looks great and he is a wealth of knowledge and information. I am in sales so I understand the importance of customer service and he goes way above and beyond for his customers!
    Thanks MS!
  7. closedwheel 172's Avatar
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    May 26, 2004, 1:26 PM - Re: Mystery or Enigma.... which came first?? #7


    Well, I sure got everybody's attention, but I'll restate it - I didn't mean to offend anybody or slag anybody. I have been in contact w/ M_S re his helmet & will definitely say that he & the person I bought my Fang from are super people, in fact, I can't think of anybody I haven't met on the forum who isn't kind.

    I'll throw this out there - suppose I get my hands on some old Ford property like say a race manifold, discontinued since say '70. I reproduce them by archaically sand casting but improve the design along the way. Someone buys 1 from me, takes it to say England for his vintage racer, cracks it, & finds someone who recasts my recast of an original, & decides to sell them there.... opinions??
    Should I be upset or proud that someone found my piece worthy of copy? Of course, I'd be losing the business....
  8. Jodo_Kast's Avatar
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    May 26, 2004, 1:45 PM - Re: Mystery or Enigma.... which came first?? #8

    Hey brother, no offense perceived on my part just a friendly caution.

    As for recasting, we've been through this before here on the forum. Essentially, Fang and MS bought their original helmets off of Ebay I believe. Did they recast them? You bet.

    As for someone recasting a recast, that's where honor among thieves comes in. Man, this whole issue is extremely complicated. I'm just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe. This is beyond my force ability to comprehend completely. The dark side clouds everything.......
  9. E2K13's Avatar
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    May 26, 2004, 2:00 PM - Re: Mystery or Enigma.... which came first?? #9

    I am with Jodo_Kast there. I have fouind everyone here on the boards to be unbelievably helpful and considerate. Shoot, Helpful is an understatement! We all here want everyone else to have just as perfect of a suit as the next guy and I am pretty sure that for the most part, most are on track to help you get there! I think the thing is though that no one wants to see anyone else get into trouble out there either so we are all looking out for the next guy too!
  10. closedwheel 172's Avatar
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    May 26, 2004, 2:11 PM - Re: Mystery or Enigma.... which came first?? #10

    Thanks J_K & EK213, yes I agree, I feel I'm entering a very dark place...

    I do see a future where the topic may be discussed though - it includes fuzzy, inviting couches, & cold beer....

    'Til then I'll await tylerdurden's report & respect the advice given.

    Again, no harm to any was meant, wasn't trying to get anyone "into trouble", thought I could start an interesting discussion...

    -Rod

    _double death to the pixies_
  11. E2K13's Avatar
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    May 26, 2004, 2:30 PM - Re: Mystery or Enigma.... which came first?? #11

    Wait a minute, Did you say Beer?
    Shoot man! That's all you had to say!
    *Kicks back on the couch and offers a cold one*

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