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"The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

  1. #1

    "The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

    Ok, I'm tired of beating around the bush- Lets figure this thing out once and for all!

    My "Mystery" helmet pattern was derived from something Tyler here calls the "Lava helmet" seen below-



    I got my copy in either 2000 - 2001 from an eBay seller named KBoyette who told me her boyfriend worked in the FX industry and had got this helmet years before that.

    For years, I thought this was one of ten kits that were made by Don Post employees for themselves while they had an original film used helmet for laser scanning, but Tyler here tells me that story was all a fan myth of sorts, so we're back to square one and the Mystery helmet is more mysterious than ever.

    If my Lava helmet isn't the exact same one in the photo, it's at the very least out of the same mold. Everything was the same- the seam going down the center through the forehead arrows, the bad glasswork, the crappy texture, everything.

    Post what you know, and let's solve this thing once and for all!

    -Sarge

  2. #2
    Jango_Fett_Jr's Avatar
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    Re: "The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

    My vote goes for screen used! Through many hours spent labouring through each film frame-by-frame, I believe I was able to locate it on-screen! Just check this pic, it may be a little hard to see though:
    lava-helmet-jpg

    In all seriousness, I would really like to hear what that real story is behind this helmet. I too used to think it was taken from a DP mold prior to the major modifcations they made to it, but was always curious why there were never any more details beyond that.

  3. #3
    tubachris85x's Avatar
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    Re: "The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

    The only question I will have if yo guys manage to really find out its origins, is what will you call it then? You wont be able to call it a "mystery" helmet no more....Just to think, no more "mystery" helmets...

    -tubachris
    (Perhaps more in depth research is needed)

  4. #4
    Keegan's Avatar
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    Re: "The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

    I think there is alot of truth to what Tyler said in the last thread about this topic.

    Your mystery helmet undoubtably has real linneage, but perhaps the restoration and that on top of who knows how many bad castings before you gave your helmet the "close but not quite" look it has?
    Whatever the story, what you offer should not be considered a direct copy. More like 4th generation or so.

    The only (as of now) known true copy of a real helmet is in Lee's hands.

    That is not to say your helmet could have come from a copy of the many unused helmets that we havent really seen up close.

    Thats what I think. And dont take offense please8)

  5. #5
    Gator Fett's Avatar
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    Re: "The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

    I don't know about the lineage of your helmet, but I would like to learn the details.

    SgtFang said:
    Ok, I'm tired of beating around the bush- Lets figure this thing out once and for all!
    Since we are not beating around the bush ....

    SgtFang said:
    If my Lava helmet isn't the exact same one in the photo, it's at the very least out of the same mold.
    Why don't you post a picture of your raw helmet that you bought on ebay?

  6. #6
    I helped at SDCC '08 MandalorFett's Avatar
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    Re: "The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

    Brak's Buddy needs to chime in fo' sho'.



  7. #7
    never_ending_fett's Avatar
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    Re: "The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

    Gator Fett said: View Post
    I don't know about the lineage of your helmet, but I would like to learn the details.


    Since we are not beating around the bush ....


    Why don't you post a picture of your raw helmet that you bought on ebay?
    If I remember what I've read in the past I think he put a ton of bondo on his fixing it up, along with alot of sanding etc. didn't leave alot of the original. What he has pictured is the best representation of what he had to the best of his recollection. Am I right in how I remember the story? If so were there pictures taken of the process and what does the original look like after all the bondo? Also if my memory serves me correctly from my days on TUBFC listserve there were Mystery helmets available circa 1999 or before. If it was pulled from an original screenused prop (or unscreenused bu but made by the same folks that made the screenused) would all of the "fixing" made it less accurate?

    all that said it's lineage doesn't really matter all that much to me. It's a great looking bucket for a reasonable price that for many members seems to be as close to the real thing as can be attained. It's grandfathered status remains so for me it's not an argument as to if it's allowable or not it's an interesting conversation as to where it actually comes from.

  8. #8

    Re: "The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

    Why don't you post a picture of your raw helmet that you bought on ebay?

    It looks nothing like that anymore- I had some pics of it unmodified, but those got lost when Photopoint went out of business years ago. My original now has probably a pound of Bondo in it, has had the ears cut off, and has been so reshaped, tweaked, and everything else that it would be unrecognizeable except for the forehead arrows, and key slots in the back.

    Oh- as far as what to call it after we find out, I'm thinking "Sarge's Savior" 8) That thing's paid so many bills over the years, I've been calling my house "The House that Boba Built"!

    -Sarge

  9. #9
    hansoloway's Avatar
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    Re: "The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

    Sarge, whatever the lineage, that bucket has saved many of our butts from walking around in undersized DP '95's, and for that, you have my gratitude .

  10. #10
    evan4218's Avatar
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    Re: "The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

    So do you not have the program photopoint? or was it a picture hosting website? I guess I have never heard of it if its either. If its a file format thing I can convert it for you.

  11. #11

    Re: "The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

    Hi Sarge,

    I'm still at work, so I won't be able to properly respond to this thread until I get out.

    As I said before, I am not trying to criticize your "Mystery Helmet" casting. My issue is that you feel you are the progenitor of the "Mystery Helmet" when at least two or three "Mystery-style" helmets existed before you recast your E-bay helmet. Also, and I know this is not your fault, you've been fed incorrect and unsubstantiated information regarding your helmet.

    Regarding the provenance of any "Mystery-style" helmet, any helmet that has lineage to an original helmet—the Don Post Deluxe, the Don Post standard (to a lesser extent), Mystery Helmets (Lava, Marrow Sun, Sarge)— is a descendant of the Preproduction 2 helmet.

    Unless other evidence surfaces, after production I don't believe any helmet other than the Preproduction 2 helmet was ever cast—Rogue Studios, Lee, now owns that direct casting.

    Anyway, I'll have a more comprehensive post when I get in later.
    Last edited by Tyler Durden; Dec 5, 2006 at 5:54 PM.

  12. #12

    Re: "The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

    evan4218 said: View Post
    So do you not have the program photopoint? or was it a picture hosting website? I guess I have never heard of it if its either. If its a file format thing I can convert it for you.
    It used to be the biggest, free photohost on the net, but went out of business about 4-5 years ago. They offered a backup CD where people could save their pics for awhile, but I had a bunch of car problems at the time and couldn't spare it.

    -Sarge

  13. #13
    ukscout's Avatar
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    Re: "The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

    I while ago some posted pics of a helmet casted from bronze/brass

    could this helmet be the lava helmet, when metal is in liquid form it looks like lava??

    could this bronze/brass helmet been the base to form the helmets from??

  14. #14

    Re: "The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

    Tyler Durden said: View Post
    Hi Sarge,

    I'm still at work, so I won't be able to properly respond to this thread until I get out.

    As I said before, I am not trying to criticize your "Mystery Helmet" casting. My issue is that you feel you are the progenitor of the "Mystery Helmet" when at least two or three "Mystery-style" helmets existed before you recast your E-bay helmet.
    Now here we have a breakthrough- My only problem was people saying there were "MYSTERY" helmets before mine. There weren't because "I" came up with that name on the RPF. I've got no problem with the phrase "Mystery-STYLE" helmet because that's a reasonable comparison and provides a quick description. I just go nuts, when I see a kit I didn't make called an MH, because that kit might be a pile o' bantha poodoo and it might confuse people into thinking it's one of mine. If all these other kits originated with the Pre-Pro helmt (COOOL!!! ) I'm fine with "Mystery-Style" just not "Mystery Helmet"

    Also, and I know this is not your fault, you've been fed incorrect and unsubstantiated information regarding your helmet.
    True, true, I just want to find out the origin once and for all, because it's really awkward and embarrassing when you think you've know something for like 5 years, and then find out you been passing along bad info all that time.

    Regarding the provenience of any "Mystery-style" helmet, any helmet that has lineage to an original helmet—the Don Post Deluxe, the Don Post standard (to a lesser extent), Mystery Helmets (Lava, Marrow Sun, Sarge)— is a descendant of the Preproduction 2 helmet.
    Unless other evidence surfaces, after production I don't believe any helmet other than the Preproduction 2 helmet was ever cast—Rogue Studios, Lee, now owns that direct casting.
    Now, you're POSITIVE that's where they all came from? There's one possibility that I'm not supposed to talk about, but I'll just say Don Post originally toyed with doing a Boba helmet back right after ESB, and the Deluxe Boba project wasn't the first time they'd had an original helmet in their possession. 8)


    Anyway, I'll have a more comprehensive post when I get in later.
    Cool! Looking forward to it!

    -Sarge

  15. #15
    Buckeye_01's Avatar
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    Re: "The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

    This was a very interesting thread the first time around, and I am sure it will get very interesting again.

  16. #16
    AFettFullofDollars's Avatar
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    Re: "The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

    I always love the eBay sellers who sell the MSH 'mystery SIZE helmet'. That term always cracks me up.

  17. #17
    Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
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    Re: "The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

    ukscout said: View Post
    I while ago some posted pics of a helmet casted from bronze/brass

    could this helmet be the lava helmet, when metal is in liquid form it looks like lava??

    could this bronze/brass helmet been the base to form the helmets from??
    I think you are referring to Rogue Studios' PP2 plug which does indeed appear to be the grandfather of all replica helmets with a lineage to the original.

  18. #18
    Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
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    Re: "The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

    SgtFang said: View Post
    My only problem was people saying there were "MYSTERY" helmets before mine. There weren't because "I" came up with that name on the RPF. I've got no problem with the phrase "Mystery-STYLE" helmet because that's a reasonable comparison and provides a quick description. I just go nuts, when I see a kit I didn't make called an MH, because that kit might be a pile o' bantha poodoo and it might confuse people into thinking it's one of mine. If all these other kits originated with the Pre-Pro helmt (COOOL!!! ) I'm fine with "Mystery-Style" just not "Mystery Helmet"
    Sarge,

    I believe I recall you coming up with the name "Mystery Helmet" as the true source of your helmet was a "mystery" but what was clear was that there were some significant differences, between your helmet and the Don Post standard and Deluxe, the most obvious being the dome. We have learned a lot since then, one being, as Tyler said, that virtually every replica available that has any lineage to an original comes from a casting of the Prepro 2 helmet. If you feel the need to stake a claim on the name "Mystery Helmet" I can understand that to a degree, but the fact is, your helmet is one of many, many similar castings, most which are casts of casts, and recasts of recasts. I don't really know how you could be too upset that all of these helmets are now referred to as "Mystery helmets" as you helped make this possible by casting a helmet you simply bought from eBay. I am not trying to point fingers, but that is like taking something that is not yours, putting your name on it, and then complaining when someone else takes it from you, because your name was on it. It wasn't yours to begin with. In regard to people claiming their were mystery helmets before the one you bought on eBay, they mean that helmets of the same or similar generation were out there and in the hands of a very few people. There is no doubt that they were much more rare, but yours was definitely not singular.

    SgtFang said: View Post
    I just want to find out the origin once and for all, because it's really awkward and embarrassing when you think you've know something for like 5 years, and then find out you been passing along bad info all that time.
    I can certainly appreciate the awkwardness of this situation. In regard to exact what generation your casting is, the truth is, we will simply never know. Were there an original 10 that came out of Don Post? Honestly, I don't know. That story seems to have been spun long ago by Jeff Ritzman, who was attempting to impress everyone with a Fett helmet he had which may have been an "unknown" casting like yours. What we do know is that there are generations to these helmets, the "mystery" helmet being one of the last before the helmet became the mass marketed DP helmets. If anything is the "master" or first gen copy, it is Rogue Studios plug. The person he bought it from was the original owner, and caster of this piece, as well as a highly respected member of the industry. The RS plug is clearly a direct cast from the PP2 right down to easily identifiable paint chips and physical scratches captured in the casting. Some of those same features, although greatly softened and obscured are still present in the mystery helmet.

    Is the lava helmet from the same gen as the mystery helmet? I tend to think not. I believe it to be at least one step back towards the original, but I could be wrong. How many steps are between the PP2 and the mystery helmet or the dp mass marketted helmets? Again, it is unlikely that we will ever know for sure. At the very least I can say the mystery helmet is not 1st gen or 2nd. Beyond that, we simply don't know.

    SgtFang said: View Post
    Now, you're POSITIVE that's where they all came from? There's one possibility that I'm not supposed to talk about, but I'll just say Don Post originally toyed with doing a Boba helmet back right after ESB, and the Deluxe Boba project wasn't the first time they'd had an original helmet in their possession. 8)
    All indications point to there being specific tells to each real helmet and all of the replicas with lineage to a real helmet that haven't been completely retooled have tells that point directly to the pp2. The pp2 is the only helmet in private hands. The pp2 was at DP. We know that DP had a Fett helmet in the early 80s, but that project was aborted. The only thing that seems to have come from that was the RS plug and as I have said before, everything else appears to have come from that.

  19. #19

    Re: "The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

    can someone post pics of the PP2(the good pic's btw ) and the "Plug" again....???? You know so we can see the comparisons..??

  20. #20

    Re: "The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

    Just doing some paint tests. The one on the Left being a mystery helmet.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails fettstuff-jpg  

  21. #21

    Re: "The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

    Lineage schmineage, I just love mine no matter where it originally evolved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  22. #22

    Re: "The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

    here's my Lava Helmet
    No Mystery about it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails lavahelmet-jpg  

  23. #23
    Keegan's Avatar
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    Re: "The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

    Nice picture
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails fettstuff-jpg  
    Last edited by Keegan; Dec 5, 2006 at 9:02 PM. Reason: Opps RS already said it

  24. #24
    Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
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    Re: "The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

    Here is a comparison of one of the tells that passes from the PP2 to the RS plug to the Lava helmet. After this it seems that this tell is lost, although others remain that still tie the "Mystery" tm helmet to the PP2.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails pp2-jpg  

  25. #25

    Re: "The Lava"/ "Mystery Helmet" Let's solve this!

    Brak's Buddy said: View Post
    Here is a comparison of one of the tells that passes from the PP2 to the RS plug to the Lava helmet. After this it seems that this tell is lost, although others remain that still tie the "Mystery" tm helmet to the PP2.
    Cool, I'll sand away the primer there on mine tomorrow and see if there's any bondo there.

    -Sarge

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