never ending fett
Active Hunter
so you all (the helmet experts) are pretty sure that the one with the red arrow (the one with the backward rangefinder lol) in ss's picture is the one that this helmet was cast from?
Fett from 1986
- Thread starter Banzai88
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never ending fett
Active Hunter
At first, I was just looking at the paint on the ROTJ stunt that spidey posted, but the more I look at it, it looks like there isn't a hump on the RF ear side and the cap over the RF stock is on a (vertical?) plane closer to the helmet than the section under it. Not sure how to describe it exactly...
never ending fett
Active Hunter
i'm not sure that the helmet in single seats picture is the same as spidey's.
i think the banzai is closer to spidey's picture as in the same/similar mold or maybe(really stretching it) the banzai cast from the one in spidey's picture.
see the comparison picture I threw together
i think the banzai is closer to spidey's picture as in the same/similar mold or maybe(really stretching it) the banzai cast from the one in spidey's picture.
see the comparison picture I threw together
For clarity sake, no we can't say Banzai's helmet is a direct cast from a particular stunt. There are two stunts in the archives and BOTH are present during RotJ... it is interesting that both appear to have been created AFTER ESB (ie FOR RotJ) but both were painted to match the ESB helmet.
SingleSeat
Active Hunter
Agreed. I was just calling out the helmet with the dent. I wish we had more history on Banzai's cast around that RF ear mount. Yet more hi-rez surface photos might show more clues or answer more questions. Like the dent photo...without that photo, we would still be here guessing.
Keegan
Active Hunter
I've been looking at both of the real stunt helmets and both appear to have very similar shaped cracks on the rangefinder side upper cheek. The ESB hero helmet also has this crack which occured during the filming. Also at least one of the stunts (and I think both) has a crack in the eyeslot on the stripes side, just like the ESB hero got sometime after filming.
Is is possible that the ESB hero was actually molded sometime after ESB wrapped and was used to create the stunts?
They could have painted the stunts right next to the ESB hero for reference. And maybe that extra upper cheek sliver damage which appears on the ESB after filming, which also is duplicated on both stunt helmets, was actually peeled off during the molding process?
Then they change to the ROTJ version of Fett which looks nothing like the ESB version and are stuck with ESB looking stunt helmets. Does anyone know why the big change in color scheme btw?
And on the helmet in this thread, you can see what could be the remnants of a crack in the eyeslot on the stripes side.
A wild theory and I'm not exactly hoping too hard that its true. But I've just always wondered why the stunts are so similar to the ESB hero.
Is is possible that the ESB hero was actually molded sometime after ESB wrapped and was used to create the stunts?
They could have painted the stunts right next to the ESB hero for reference. And maybe that extra upper cheek sliver damage which appears on the ESB after filming, which also is duplicated on both stunt helmets, was actually peeled off during the molding process?
Then they change to the ROTJ version of Fett which looks nothing like the ESB version and are stuck with ESB looking stunt helmets. Does anyone know why the big change in color scheme btw?
And on the helmet in this thread, you can see what could be the remnants of a crack in the eyeslot on the stripes side.
A wild theory and I'm not exactly hoping too hard that its true. But I've just always wondered why the stunts are so similar to the ESB hero.
kbrosseau,
Not a wild theory at all... in fact you are right on the money! Tyler and I have been discussing this very thing all afternoon. We are still up in the air on a few details (like the ESB dent not perfectly matching the stunt dents, but there are three main details that indicate both the stunt helmets are castings from the ESB hero, but that those stunts were indeed cast AFTER ESB shooting wrapped (presumably cast for use in RotJ) as they feature markers that aren't seen on the ESB helmet during shooting.
Below is a pic of the details Tyler and I came up with earlier this afternoon.
The thing we have been trying to determine is where Banzai's helmet fits in. As I pointed out this morning, it has a stunt dent, yet it lacks all the other features that would ID it as a stunt. I ALMOST think I can make out the sanded down crack on the left side of the dome/brow but am not sure if I am just seeing what I want to see or not. My biggest question right now is whether banzai's casting is from the same mold as the other two stunts (presumably a direct casting of the ESB hero) or whether it is a copy of a 3rd stunt we haven't seen, or whether it is a casting of one of the two stunts seen in the archives. No matter what, it obviously has had quite a bit of cleanup work that had destroyed a considerable amount of the detail that would help us ID it more accurately. However, for now, I am satisfied that it is related to the stunt helmets and indirectly to the ESB hero.
Not a wild theory at all... in fact you are right on the money! Tyler and I have been discussing this very thing all afternoon. We are still up in the air on a few details (like the ESB dent not perfectly matching the stunt dents, but there are three main details that indicate both the stunt helmets are castings from the ESB hero, but that those stunts were indeed cast AFTER ESB shooting wrapped (presumably cast for use in RotJ) as they feature markers that aren't seen on the ESB helmet during shooting.
Below is a pic of the details Tyler and I came up with earlier this afternoon.
The thing we have been trying to determine is where Banzai's helmet fits in. As I pointed out this morning, it has a stunt dent, yet it lacks all the other features that would ID it as a stunt. I ALMOST think I can make out the sanded down crack on the left side of the dome/brow but am not sure if I am just seeing what I want to see or not. My biggest question right now is whether banzai's casting is from the same mold as the other two stunts (presumably a direct casting of the ESB hero) or whether it is a copy of a 3rd stunt we haven't seen, or whether it is a casting of one of the two stunts seen in the archives. No matter what, it obviously has had quite a bit of cleanup work that had destroyed a considerable amount of the detail that would help us ID it more accurately. However, for now, I am satisfied that it is related to the stunt helmets and indirectly to the ESB hero.
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As a side note, we have always been under the impression that the stunts were vac formed, but now have clearly seen that they are CAST helmets as they have details in them that couldn't possibly be vacced. Also, the large crack going up the dome of the ESB has repairwork that identically matches the repairs seen on the ESB hero... again, details that couldn't be matched via a vacced helmet.
I know those of you with a keen eye will note that on the hero, the crack goes to the bottom of the eye slot and on the stunt it goes to the top. However, if you will note, the stunts appear to have the eyeslot extended fruther back (the stunts lack the slanted vertical edge seen on the hero and even on banzai's stunt). Also, keep in mind that these pics were taken at completely different angles, but I think you can see the repair putty is the same.
I know those of you with a keen eye will note that on the hero, the crack goes to the bottom of the eye slot and on the stunt it goes to the top. However, if you will note, the stunts appear to have the eyeslot extended fruther back (the stunts lack the slanted vertical edge seen on the hero and even on banzai's stunt). Also, keep in mind that these pics were taken at completely different angles, but I think you can see the repair putty is the same.
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Spideyfett
Well-Known Hunter
So I was right, kinda???? Casted stunt helmet with lineage to the Hero ESB??
And Great work Braks....nice comparisons.
Possibly. We are treading some new ground here and making some new discoveries. From everything I can see, the two stunts in the archives do appear to be direct casting of the post-filming ESB Hero. There are discrepancies in the dent (casting issues?) and banzai's matches the stunt dents perfectly from what I can see yet has none of the other tells that both other stunts have that link them to the ESB helmet. I stand by my earlier post that I believe his helmet IS a stunt (whether cast from the same mold or recast from one of the existing stunts), but it is very odd that his helmet has what appears to be numerous original marks in it but lacks the specific marks that would make us think it was an ESB.
I know you were trying to show other details that you thought made it look ESB to you earlier in this post, but I have to be honest in saying, I just don't see them in this helmet... but that is me. This is all very exciting and (in my mind) would put banzai's helmet 2nd only to Lee's casting if we could find a few more definitive tells on it either to show stunt or ESB lineage. Right now all I can tell for sure is that it does have real lineage and the dent matches the stunts. I know you guys would love this helmet to have lineage to the ESB hero but I don't want to go and prematurely hail it as such because I know how easily prop myths are formed and how hard they are to kill.
Spideyfett
Well-Known Hunter
I do think with all the posted made, that we are definately on the right track to something .....as TylerD stated, BanzaI88's helmet should be looked at side by side vs. the MF.....I think that would def help.
I think however Banzai88 would want that done in a secure setting though, for both parties
never ending fett
Active Hunter
now which helmet(s) is/are the ones on the left in those two comparison shots? Cause to me (based only on the RF ear pieces) that looks to be a different helmet from the one ss pointed out and different from the one that spidey posted from the ROTJ stunt scene. Do the two known ROTJ stunts have names?
I know at this point we can't definatively trace the banzai back to a particular helmet. I'd say we are closer than we were at the start of the thread
slightly related, is there still a thread in existance with the discussion from 2 years ago that spidey is referencing? I'd like to read it if it is.
I know at this point we can't definatively trace the banzai back to a particular helmet. I'd say we are closer than we were at the start of the thread
slightly related, is there still a thread in existance with the discussion from 2 years ago that spidey is referencing? I'd like to read it if it is.
as TylerD stated, BanzaI88's helmet should be looked at side by side vs. the MF.....I think that would def help.
I think however Banzai88 would want that done in a secure setting though, for both parties
I have already contacted Banzai about this and he is agreeable to it. I don't know anything about a secure location.... I think we were talking about Starbucks or something...
The helmet on the left in both pics are the stunts helmets... However, they aren't the same stunt helmet.
I have always just referred to them as Stunt #1 and Stunt#2 with stunt #2 being the one featured in the Best of Lucasfilm Archive book.
I know at this point we can't definatively trace the banzai back to a particular helmet. I'd say we are closer than we were at the start of the thread
Can't argue that! This helmet has kicked serveral of us into high gear and has prompted us to relook at stuff we haven't studied in quite a while.
never ending fett
Active Hunter
I'll see if I can find that book. Didn't even know it existed!
Here is what I refer to as stunt #1
And here is what I refer to as stunt #2
never ending fett
Active Hunter
Are those side by sides straight out of the book or something you've put together?
I've always kinda taken for granted that you all just kinda knew this stuff like you were born with the knowledge but the more I get into how interesting the history and the sheer number of helmets that were made the more I'd like to know where all of your guy's info actually comes from.
Like I said I've kinda pieced some of the history together from the few threads like this that I've followed, but more background info would be great!
This is all very exciting to me seeing this new discovery unfold and seeing the "detective work" that's going into it!
I've always kinda taken for granted that you all just kinda knew this stuff like you were born with the knowledge
but the more I get into how interesting the history and the sheer number of helmets that were made the more I'd like to know where all of your guy's info actually comes from.Like I said I've kinda pieced some of the history together from the few threads like this that I've followed, but more background info would be great!
This is all very exciting to me seeing this new discovery unfold and seeing the "detective work" that's going into it!
