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ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

  1. #1

    ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

    Hello Everyone!

    Long time lurker, and first time poster. I've spent many hours strategizing the best way to tackle the paint for an ESB bucket. Just the first few weeks have been a learning experience in the prep work and mistakes that one may make in painting. I purchased one of ASOK's buckets, and I was incredibly happy with the transaction and correspondence! This bucket is more or less a trial in the process for myself in what others have put out before me, and have since discovered that recreating the "unintentional" errors of the ESB helmet more or less turns out to be an interpretation of what we see. In another life, I had an artistic background with an attention to detail, and many mediums including: Oil and acrylic paints, markers, ink, charcoal, and pencil. This is quite
    a deviation from the majority of the population in my current profession. My hats off to those of you who have replicated this thing to every exacting detail of the original! I'm fortunate to have a hobby shop around the corner with the full library of Humbrol paints, and this forum to reference to.

    My goals for this helmet are to:
    • Learn the nuances of the color mixing, to create a likeness of the original helmet.
    • To experiment with the methods and mediums within the painting process.
    • Spend a lot of money on paint, mediums, and equipment to complete


    I finished my prep work, to which I didn't take pictures (I appologize), about 3 weeks ago on the weekend. All went smoothly, but I quickly noticed some deformation in the helmet following the prep work and leaving the visor area, without a visor. I purchased a 3mm visor on amazon (outlined in another thread), and within 24 hours just after installing the visor, the shape went back to normal without any manipulation.

    Following the prep work, I wanted to tackle the back panels first. I layed the silver, then the grey, then the beige.... When removing the mask, I started to also lift the grey layer in the process, creating something that was not reminicent of the original. I was then able to peel off all of my beige and grey layers with a knife, resanded, and picked the ears to start off with. To prevent this in the future, I spray a light coat of testors gloss coat on each layer to prevent the peeling back, and give the masking fluid less to grip to. So far, this has worked!

    Following Jayvee's, TF's threads, and Welshwarrior's youtube videos, I had a good idea of where to start:

    • Grey 28 (although appeared a bit beige following the process)
    • Red 60
    • 1:1 78+159
    • Mask + white 34 (used Tamiya 18mm and 6mm masking tape for this, cutting the curves where needed).
    • Used "Micro Mask" for all masking and had no issues here. I'm curious to try out other masking fluids, but the local shop has every humbrol product but maskoll.
    • All layers were buffed with 0000 steel wool between applications.

    Here's where I'm at now:

    20130728_165317-jpg
    20130728_163633-jpg

    I'll add and update as the process comes along!

  2. #2
    Jayvee's Avatar
    Member Since
    Sep 2010
    From
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    637

    Re: ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

    Terrific start bud! The colours look spot on, and the attention to detail looks great! Keep up the good work my friend!

  3. #3

    Re: ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

    Thanks Jayvee, will surely have questions for you throughout the process!

    Working on RH Ear concurrently with the Left. It's actually kind of nice to bounce back between the two, as it gives me something to do while one side drys! Quickly realized that you cannot hurry up the process for the paint to dry, before the wire wool, before gloss coating, and then applying the next coat.

    Laid: Grey 79, testors gloss coat, masked grey detail, then laid sand 93. The lighting in my room totally sucks, but the coat went down well! The gloss coat seems to take enough of the "bite" out of the grey flat layer for nothing to stick to it. Anyone else have the issue with the grey pulling up in following layers???

    Moving on to the White/black curved details tomorrow, and topically applying the silver damage/detail on top of the 79. I also will experiment with scratching away the previous layers of grey/sand to expose the silver underneith in some areas.

    20130728_210857-jpg

  4. #4
    RafalFett's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2010
    From
    Galati, Romania
    Posts
    2,625

    Re: ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

    As Jayvee said, the left ear looks great and you also have an awesome start with the right ear too! Just keep the great updates coming!

  5. #5

    Re: ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

    Hello Everyone!

    Been busy on my end, but have since made some progress on the bucket! I have since finished off both left and right ears. On the right ear with the range finder, I found a lot of satisfaction in masking, spraying, remasking, spraying, and finally wrapping up the detail on the upper right ear. A bit time consuming, but gave me something to knock out while I waited for masking fluid to dry. The silver area is a wire wool buffed valspar enamel from Lowes. I'm a bit divided on this paint. It seems to have a great reflection when untouched, and can dull down greatly when touched by anything but your finger. From the ref pics, the ear piece seems to have a duller finish than the rest of the silver areas. Sand and grey detail were painted, by brush, following the airbrush process. Here's the result.

    20130809_192647-jpg

    On the back panels, I wanted to tackle this differently. I tried to think about this way too much the first time through with stencils that didn't necessarily fit. This time, I figured out the way to best cut the stencils to best fit the helmet, and templated every other following stencil off of that. I also realized that applying the grey 79 prior to the mixture, may be a step that I could omit, then paint on later (thank you welshwarrior!). I'll topically apply the dark grey following the final coat (and also as the stencils sugguest).

    20130809_192635-jpg

    I've noticed a bit of preference when it comes to the beige/tan layer. Some prefer it darker, some lighter. I actually see it dulled down with a blue/white to blend in better with the other layers. I'm seeing some of my experience with color theory come in to play with this layer in particular. If I totally screw the pooch on this layer, I will apologize to everyone, and then come back to the back panels following the other areas

    Any thoughts or sugguestions are greatly appreciated!

  6. #6

    Re: ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

    And here's the Valspar paint I used for the Silver. In my process, I sprayed this, then grey 147, then my mix for the beige layer. I then had issues with every previous layer coming off with the removal of my masking fluid. (beige has still yet to be applied)

    20130809_201331-jpg
    In my new process, I first sprayed Humbrol silver metallic down. Following that, I noticed a lack of scheme (glossiness in the layer). Maybe this was in my prep work, but it didn't seem to differentiate what it needed to. Then sprayed the Valspar on top, followed by the testors gloss to protect it from my follow up laying of masking fluid/paint.

  7. #7

    Re: ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

    Those metallic and ultra-sheen paints dry with a very smooth, waxy surface texture that doesn't like paint very much. When I do my silver I let it cure for a day, then rub it down with my worn out squares of #000 steel wool. This gives it a very subtle "tooth" for the paint to bite into and grip for your next layer. Also, if I don't do this my masking fluid likes to run and bead rather than stay where I want it. The brushdown makes accurate masking much easier for me.

  8. #8
    RafalFett's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2010
    From
    Galati, Romania
    Posts
    2,625

    Re: ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

    Did you used the modified Asok back plate stencils from my ESB helmet stencil thread or you used the original file, which is not compatible with the common helmets?
    The right ear 'silver' is actually the aluminum showing through the paint, this is why it is duller than the silver paint on the rest of the helmet.

  9. #9

    Re: ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

    Rafal,

    I did use the modified back plate stencils that you posted. They were relatively close to the correct size, but I did end up cutting them to fit the curvature of the helmet.

    Boba,

    I used the same process with steel wool, then a dusting of testors gloss coat over the silver to prevent any pulling off in the future layers. Just the "dusting" of the clear coat in between layers has seemed to make the difference, since the Humbrols are so porous, and almost have a primer like finish, that is still there even after a steel wool buffing.

  10. #10
    RafalFett's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2010
    From
    Galati, Romania
    Posts
    2,625

    Re: ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

    5326Commcando said: View Post
    Rafal,

    I did use the modified back plate stencils that you posted. They were relatively close to the correct size, but I did end up cutting them to fit the curvature of the helmet.
    I understand! I'm working on the ESB helmet stencils that will fit perfectly my RWH v2 templates and pretty close most of the screen accurate helmets.

  11. #11

    Re: ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

    I got the beige layer down with no trouble, mixing 103+94 with a touch of white to dull down the yellowness of the layer. From the reference pics, it appears to have a "cooler" yellow scheme. I talked about using blue, but decided to hold off on this for at least this layer. I think the white did the trick! This was also the layer on my last attempt which caused much of the other layers to peel off with the removal of the masking fluid. I'm not sure why that happened, but the clear gloss dusting seems to continue to alleviate this issue thus far! Which is good, because I really did not want to redo this area again. Like I set out to do, this has been much of a learning experience, and a lot of fun! Will be masking and laying down the green/blue later today!

    20130811_092954-jpg

  12. #12

    Re: ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

    Here's the breakdown of Rafal's back plate stencils cut to fit the curvature of the ASOK helmet. What follows is 1/2 my bottle of masking fluid and waiting for it to dry (happening now)! All in all worked very well! Scaling was slightly off, but I'm not too worried about that, as I can correct a lot of the issues following the last coat with topically applied Gray 79 and my leftover beige mixture.

    20130811_180739-jpg

  13. #13
    RafalFett's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2010
    From
    Galati, Romania
    Posts
    2,625

    Re: ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

    That's how you do it right when the stencil size/form doesn't fit the helmet part(s). Keep up the good work!

  14. #14

    Re: ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

    20130812_182123-jpg20130812_182138-jpg20130812_182151-jpg

    After masking the previous layers, then spraying the 76 + 96 green/blue layer, I held my breath and removed all the masking fluid. For the most part, it came off pretty well, but did strip some of the beige layer off (requiring some retouching). I'm trying to figure out why this happened now with this layer and not the others??? I left it to dry for 24+ hours, but I'm still convinced either it needed more time to cure, more wire wool buffing, and/or another coat of clear gloss to allow the fluid to lift up. I'm not sure if anyone else has had this happen to them, if so, please share your experience!

    For the beige layer, has anyone tried another mixture or humbrol color besides the 93+104 mix? The reference pics from AoSW show it to be quite light, but decided to stick to the prescribed color. I'm actually thinking that the color is more around the lines of Grey 28, which was a "warmer" grey that was used on the Left Ear. I'll save this for my next helmet

    I noticed that the areas closer to the previous layers tended to be darker, with subtle areas where the beige shows through (and lightening the layer). As shown in the AoSW galleries. This gave me an opportunity to finally play with the air pressure and nozzle settings on my airbrush! After laying it down, it appeared quite green....It dried darker, but still more green then the reference pics. I think I figured out why, at least on my end! My ****** lighting, and camera phone carry the colors over pretty well, BUT under a flash, it is now much more blue (and darker)! Looks like the reference pics taken at the exhibits are taken under the same conditions as my room!

    Here's with a flash:
    20130812_182105-jpg

    Looking forward to brushing down the grey 79 tomorrow, as it's going to bring the colors together more, and complete the base process!

  15. #15
    Jayvee's Avatar
    Member Since
    Sep 2010
    From
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    637

    Re: ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

    While I used predominately humbrols, for the beige layer, I went with Floquil concrete, which I felt was a little less yellow. As for the peeling up layers, I've never had any issues with humrols and maskol, and I don't find I even need to clear coat the layers in between. So it could be down to extra curing time, or possibly the thickness in application of your layers. I find it much better to do several lighter coats, than one or two thicker coats for coverage. You may be already doing that, but just trying to help nut it out a bit...

  16. #16

    Re: ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

    Thanks for the suggestion JV! I noticed some split opinions on this, but I will definitely buy a bottle of the concrete, and color test! Been laying down thin coats, but I'm starting to think it may be a combo of the sliver I'm using + the masking fluid. I'm going to try another brand of rattlecan silver for the dome/cheeks/mandibles. I think as the other humbrol layers are binding well to each other, the lack of porousness in the sliver isn't creating enough of a bond between the layer on top of it, when I pull the masking fluid off, I also get some tearing through the layers I've already layed, and then back down to the silver. It's not too bad so far, just something I don't want to deal with in the process anymore. I tried laying down the Humbrol silver 11, but there just wasn't enough reflectiveness in it for me, or at least from my application.

  17. #17

    Re: ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

    Thanks for sharing you experiences so far... I haven't painted a helmet before but have started to amass (humbrol)colours, (humbrol) masking fluid, thinners air brush etc, but will definatly note down the Floquil Concrete...

    I've watched welshwarriors excellent you tube videos many times and now sit patiently (or not) and await the arrival of my lid... I am on the waiting list for one of ASOKs coldcast GMH.

    I look forward to your next update...

  18. #18
    LongHammer's Avatar
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    Jun 2013
    From
    Jacksonville (Florida), United States
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    Re: ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

    I found it not reflective enough for me either (in certain spots). I am going to expirement with using humbrol chrome in the dent and damaged areas, and silver for the scratches. We will see, if I goon it up I will just have to go back to using silver 11 only.

  19. #19

    Re: ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

    Just wrapped up the last of the paint work on the back panels. This was a long process, just as everyone else has experienced, but the results were worth it! The layering of colors really adds some great texture, and creates some interesting areas to get drawn to. While it's not an exact copy of the original, I feel I captured the important areas of the back panels giving it the look and feel of the ESB helmet. Topically applying the grey 79 and other touches really brought the colors together, giving great contrast between all of the other layers. I'll start the weathering process with just the scratches, and finish the rest up after I get everything else wrapped up.

    20130815_192145-jpg20130815_192156-jpg20130815_192208-jpg

    Looking forward to moving on to the dome/cheeks!

    Thank you all for the feedback and comments!

  20. #20

    Re: ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

    Here's where it stood just before the remasking of the mandibles/trim! I can almost visualize the complete process at this point! Welshwarrior said it best, "the worst part about this hobby...waiting..." It's almost agonizing waiting for the enamels to cure and start the next layer. Can a heat gun speed up the process????

    20130816_193531-jpg20130816_193539-jpg20130816_193548-jpg

    Here's where it stands now with a base coat on the dome and cheeks of Humbrol 147 (light grey)
    My apologies for the camera phone pictures! I promise some glamour shots on the finished product!
    20130818_184321-jpg

  21. #21

    Re: ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

    5326Commcando said: View Post
    Can a heat gun speed up the process????
    With all your peeling issues I would just try to wait it our rather than adding another variable to the mix

  22. #22
    Figure5901's Avatar
    Member Since
    Aug 2013
    From
    Atlanta, Georgia
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    20

    Re: ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

    Seeing the technical issues reminds me why I'm going to have someone besides myself paint one for me. However I do applaud your effort and can't wait to see the finished lid.

  23. #23

    Re: ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

    I think I can agree with that BobaFiend. I'm going to hit the silver with a satin coat this time and see if that helps, then complete the process as usual. Thank you for the reply!

  24. #24

    Re: ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

    Thanks for your thorough explanations! I appreciate it! Also, it looks terrific!

  25. #25
    Jayvee's Avatar
    Member Since
    Sep 2010
    From
    Perth, Western Australia
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    637

    Re: ASOK CC ESB Paint Up

    Hmm, see, I find the Humbrol silver 11 perfect reflectiveness. Remember - these helmets are supposed to look heavily battle damaged, so I think silver 11 is a better representation of the silver, than a pristine, platinum silver. I also find the Humbrol silver particularly sharp once the top colours are added, and to me, it really has just that correct amount of subtlety..

    I think you may be correct in thinking that the differrent paint brand and reflectivity, is affecting the subsequent humbrol coats too. So this is another reason I favour the humbrol silver, as they are well designed to go together. This has provided me with no peeling issues through two involved helmet paint ups, and that's keeping in mind I am not clear coating any layers. I can't speak for others, but it doesnt appear others like Garrett (Terminal Fettler) have had many peeling issues either using this method, as there appears no mention of it in his threads..

    The way I apply the silver, is to apply a primer, and once dry, lightly fine steel wool the area. Spray fine coats of the silver for complete coverage, wait 24 hours, lightly steel wool the silver layer, and brush off. I then apply another light coat of silver to bring up the sheen lost from the steel wool dulling, and I leave to dry for 2-3 days. I believe the silver takes longer to cure, so I just give it the extra time, and then you are ready for your next layers. With this, I have had very few, if any major paint issues. Good luck my friend, and great job on the lid to this point!

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