Your thoughts on shipping liability

woodman · Jul 30, 2014

I shipped some braids to Germany and enough time has passed that they are lost. On the date of shipping I emailed the buyer an image of the customs form receipt with the # on it. They admitted they got the email with the image of the receipt. Midway in correspondence we agreed to give it some more time and maybe they were just being held up but I've been emailed now demanding a replacement or a refund with him stating he's entitled to one or the other. I do not feel I'm obligated to either after having given him proof of shipping. I offered to help by paying shipping for a new set but was met with a coarse email of threats and the same demands.

Woody

Syper · Jul 30, 2014

Woody we all know you're a standup guy, pumping out quality products for our community. For any customer to think you should be held responsible for a lost or stolen package is just unreasonable! These things happen from time to time and no delivery service is perfect. I've had people mad at me in the past because the postman placed the package at their apartment door and it was taken. Once you ship it and you have that tracking number, that's all you can do really. We are lucky to have you Brother, sorry this issue has happened to such a cool dude.

full metal fett · Jul 30, 2014

I've had a few buckles go missing in the post. As I ship at the lowest price I can the item is NEVER tracked or insured. Because I do it like that and I can make another buckle I've just sent the customer a replacement at my cost. The saving against tracked and insured from the UK is quite a lot.

If I was doing more high cost parts or being lost in the post became more common I would look to change how I do things.

Just depends how the customer is really. I shipped on guy a new buckle after it didn't show up after a month. He ended up with TWO so shipped the second one back to me.

Jc27 · Jul 30, 2014

This is just my opinion, I would send him a refund and tell him to get his braids somewhere else if he is being rude or threatening.

DeathProof · Jul 30, 2014

Hey Woody,

Sorry to hear that you're having problems - you're a great vendor to deal with, and as Syper said, a real standup guy.

It's not your fault that the package has gone missing, so there is no reason for the guy to lose his marbles. Before he started threatening, I would have sent him another set to keep him happy, and hope that in good faith if he received two, that he would return the unused set. Things get lost in the mail - I recall reading a thread on FettPride's christmas postage issues, but things eventually turned up. Maybe message him and see what has worked for him in the past.

But since he is being a PITA about it, you have the right to just refund his money and tell him to take his business elsewhere. You're too good of a guy to deal with that. It's lost revenue, for sure, but is it worth the stress?

Syper · Jul 30, 2014

Full Metal Fett and Jc27, you both have great products and service us well, Thanks you so much.

I must ask though after packing an item well, labeling it carefully and adding a tracking number for the customer, what else can you possibly be expected to do? Add the fact that your shipping to another country, there is now way you can be made accountable for lost or stolen parcels during the delivery. Unfortunately sellers may have to add insurance and signature conformation to the cost and pass that on to the customers. I would never expect a refund with delivery complications. If my shipment is over a $100, I should be expected to pay for insurance and a signature conformation service.

We spend hundreds and even thousands of dollars on our suites, pay a bit extra for insurance people!

full metal fett · Jul 30, 2014

I feel these situations touch on the subject of turn around times too. A lot of "customers" think of us as prop/costume stores with loads of stock to send a week before the next big con.

And when there is a problem,we have a customer service department to look after things.

The fact is we are all friend in this making things for the love of it. Very little money is ever made. Most buyers know this,but from time to time things go a bit out of shape and friendship and craftmanship is forgotten.

I am a big fan of the way FettPride deals with things like this. The refund and no product if you moan about his terms of busness or call him out for bad service on a public forum.

Anyway,if you can deal with it by sending a new one and bumping that customer up the waiting list you will allways come across as a top vendor. Its all good for future sales that way.It only takes one big fall out to cost a seller a lot of sales.

bigkidbiggertoys · Jul 30, 2014

I think as a vendor you sometimes have to "fall on your sword" to keep your reputation intact. Just because we are not Home Depot doesn't mean that we can't go out of our way providing excellent customer service. It just goes with the territory I'm afraid.

And for the record, I have shipped out replacements free of charge or worked with customers with damaged items. Very rare occurrences but it does happen.

Big ticket items are ALWAYS sent with a tracking # but even then that doesn't guarantee that it will get there. There seems to be no liability once borders are crossed.

woodman · Jul 30, 2014

I have decided to refund them. My reputation is stellar here as is my customer service. In this case the buyer demanded I check the tracking for him, cursed me and repeatedly stated he was entitled to a replacement. It's set a precedent for me with international shipping for sure.

Syper · Jul 30, 2014

This is why we are truly lucky to be part of a wonderful community like the TDH! We have great individuals, Brothers and Sisters producing quality products who care more about our members and making bad situation right even at no fault of their own while taking a loss on top of it. Anywhere else you would be SOL once it's scanned "delivered" This by all reasoning is a bad business practice but they all take the hight road anyways cause they chose too. We are truly grateful and lucky to have them, let's treat them well and hope they never get bored with us.

DanzoFett · Jul 30, 2014

Great guys here made my fett building experience excellent.....thanks

Jc27 · Jul 30, 2014

I am not a big fan of overseas shipping myself. Heck, even Canada shipping is outrageous if you want tracking on a package.
For example my Asok kits. To ship to Canada is double what it is in the states, and if I wanted tracking the price is more than triple the US price. Sending something overseas is even worse for tracking. I know eventually I will get bit by the lost package bug again (if you want a really bad shipping story, ask F4R about our deal for an armor paint job). So hopefully when it does happen the customer will not be a big DB about it.
And syper, thanks for the kind words.

DeathProof · Jul 30, 2014

Jc27 said:
To ship to Canada is double what it is in the states, and if I wanted tracking the price is more than triple the US price.

Living here is awesome, but shipping anything costume related all comes from the States. I'm waiting on a very small package from Trooperbay right now...almost a month since shipped. Just a fact of living in another country.

We have great beer though.

Glad to hear it got resolved Woody! :cheers

syllander · Jul 30, 2014

No way around some issues. Agree with Vince's post entirely. Going forward though would seem to warrant a disclaimer regarding postage. Either the customer is willing to pay for tracking/insurance, or they accept that this transaction has some inherent risk. These prop makers here are some of the most dedicated you'll ever find, and put a lot of time and effort into pulling this stuff off. Hopefully there's enough good transactions to trump the DB situations like this.

Stinkape fett · Jul 31, 2014

syllander said:
no way around some issues. Agree with vince's post entirely. Going forward though would seem to warrant a disclaimer regarding postage. Either the customer is willing to pay for tracking/insurance, or they accept that this transaction has some inherent risk. These prop makers here are some of the most dedicated you'll ever find, and put a lot of time and effort into pulling this stuff off. Hopefully there's enough good transactions to trump the db situations like this.

well said !!

MLS · Aug 1, 2014

bigkidbiggertoys said:
I think as a vendor you sometimes have to "fall on your sword" to keep your reputation intact. Just because we are not Home Depot doesn't mean that we can't go out of our way providing excellent customer service. It just goes with the territory I'm afraid.

And for the record, I have shipped out replacements free of charge or worked with customers with damaged items. Very rare occurrences but it does happen.

Big ticket items are ALWAYS sent with a tracking # but even then that doesn't guarantee that it will get there. There seems to be no liability once borders are crossed.

100% agree here. I've had to send out replacement pieces from time to time because something is damaged or lost. All my shipped items are tracked, and some require signatures. That being said, not all customers are honest. Sometimes when you draw a bad apple, you just have to eat it and move on. In the long run, it's cheaper to eat the cost of shipping and replacement than it is to have that one bad review that may cost you future sales.

woodman · Aug 1, 2014

I just refunded him. His attitude about the whole thing did not leave me wanting my work on his suit.

Jc27 · Aug 1, 2014

Good idea woody, if he is going to be a *****, then give his money back and tell him to shop elsewhere

BH Reaper · Aug 1, 2014

Is it possible to ask if the customer wants to add insurance to his postage? If so then it's at their own cost. I'm no seller so not sure how much more difficult this is to do.......

Jc27 · Aug 1, 2014

For me it wouldn't be a problem. It is something that I will offer overseas shipping once I have more kits built. I think that customers will be surprised how much it costs to add tracking to a package. I know for one of my kits to track it to canada, the shipping goes from $10 to $35, so I'm not sure if people would be willing to add that much to the amount they paid for an item.

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