TDH Insider Ad Update- Ad was declined by LFL-See post 12

I talked to Steve Sansweet at SDCC regarding the Insider Ad. He said that the ad had passed the initial stages of approval and that TDH had been checked out by LFL and they like what they see. However, because this is a somewhat unique situation, approval is needed higher up and LFL's legal team will need to be involved as well. According to Steve we should have approval/denial in two weeks. He seemed optimistic that the ad would go through and said the ad looked very professional and impressive (thanks to TK409 and GINO). If we are appproved, our ad will run in issue #104 which goes on sale Sept 16, 2008. As soon as I hear something I will let you know.

Cool. :-)

Thanks for bringing us up to speed!8)

Yes, thanks for the info!
Darren:fettesb

Looking forward to it!:)

That's awesome! How is life in Arizona Art? A big stretch from Lawrenceville huh?

That's great news!
Thanks Art for the info! :)

cool !!!

Awesome news, I can't wait to see my brothers and sisters in the magazine!

:fettesb G-Fett :fettesb

VERY COOL! Can't wait to see it!

Very Cool Art thanks :)

Well, I have just received some very sad news from Titan Magazines, the company who handles the Insider:

"Hi Art,

Lucasfilm have finally come back to me saying that your ad has been disapproved. They have not specified why or what can be done to aid its approval. I am trying to obtain these bits of information now. When I hear back from them I will let you know immediately... ...I’m very sorry for this inconvenience, I am trying to get a more detailed explanation from Lucasfilm but they are being somewhat slow in their responses at the moment! The second I hear I will let you know!"

Obviously, if the ad doesn't run, we will refund everyone who paid to have their picture in the ad. I am totally crushed by this news, but whether the ad runs or not, we will press on an will continue to do our best to provide a great resource for bounty hunter fans.

Wow! I wasn't expecting that! I was at the booth when Steve came over to chat with us about it, and he seemed quite optimistic about it. I've known Steve for a few years now, and when he's optimistic, he's usually right; this is the last thing I would have expected! I wish the best of luck that the ad will indeed run, but if not, you guys gave it your best shot!

I will definitely be talking with Steve and see if he can give us a little more insight. I can think of a number of reasons why they might not have approved the ad, and if any of my hunches are correct, chances are, LFL will never be willing to say so in writing as it might leave them in a compromising position.

We must always remember that, technically, our hobby is a form of copyright infringement, and we only exist by the good graces and generosity of LFL. We may not like that very much but it doesn't change that it is a fact. If running an ad in the Insider crossed some line for them... well, that is their right to tell us no. It is disappointing to be sure and even more disappointing not to know why, but if the answer is to remain no... we will just have to shrug our shoulders and move on.

I completely understand, Art. I honestly was skeptical when we were first discussing the ad. I was wondering if it would cause any woes later on if our name was published in a LucasFilm magazine. I myself wasn't able to pay to get a picture in the ad, but I'm sure those who did are going to be extremely disappointed when they hear the news. It's unfortunate, but there isn't anything that can really be done.

While I'm bummed by this news, I'm not completely suprised by it. I'm, sure Steve Sansweet was optimistic because he understands us. The corporate lawyers on the other hand, well they don't. Like you said, they just see us as copyright infringements. I've had this in the back of my mind throughout the entire process, but I was hoping for the best.:(

Art, thank you so much for all of your hard work putting this ad together. I'd still love to see the finished product posted here.

I have withheld showing the final ad as I wanted it to be a surprise, but if we get the final word that the ad is a no-go, I will definitely post it and send all those who were to be featured a high res copy. Too much work was put into the ad by too many talented people for no one to ever see it.

Good morning,

All too familiar. I can understand the disapproval and possible reasons behind it. The foremost of which are not sinister but practical, legal concerns raised with the possible endorsement LFL would be interpreted as giving.

It is a sour and disappointing development but that was an understood risk in pursuing this opportunity. I believe it is remarkable thing for The Dented Helmet to have gotten so far. Not even the 501st has ever come close to an advertisement like this.

I want to applaud The Dented Helmet staff for their efforts. I would also like to acknowledge the members of the TDH community who showed their support for the project.

I've been at this for a long tyme. I have come to know many communities over the past half decade and I want to stress The Dented Helmet is unique. Ad or not, there's a lot behind this name and I am proud to be part of it.

Be well,
Thomas

:fettpre

This is a slap in the face as far as I'm concerned!

I think this is entirely about CGI vs Prop Makers. Personally I don't think they care much for us vintage fans anymore. The Clone Wars trailer solidified that for me. I think our days are numbered guys :doh

Sigh. I hear where you speak from, but I honestly believe The Dented Helmet will recover. TDH has proven its resilience, much like the plucky bounty hunter from which its name sake derives.

To me this disapproval is not personal, its business.

Because there's still a chance that a TDH advertisement could happen, I suggest we keep our collective cool and continue making some of the best fan-made creations in existence.

Be well--I mean this,
Thomas

How is this about CGI vs. Propmakers? That's a silly thing to say. In all likelihood it's about blatant copyright infringement.

Guys, I strongly caution you. Do NOT turn this into an argument or I WILL be removing these comments.

I can understand why it was rejected, however in saying that The 501st and Rebel Legion would most probably have much more luck, due to the nature of the organisation, with the whole charity fundraising foundations to stand on.

Unfortunately TDH is primarily a costume resource reference community, and if we here were to be given that opportunity to go through with the add, many other groups (to name a few that come to mind... Mandalorian Mercs, South Australian Fan Force, Novus Ordo etc...the last few being Australian ones, but there are many more to be sure worldwide) that would love to do the same and all apply to LFL for permissions and im sure they wouldnt be too happy with all the extra mail, and if the clubs/groups/etc were rejected they could cry foul at us for getting 'all the limelight' so to speak... so in fairness we were rejected too..

But that is an idea that could be completely off, although its kind of how my mind thinks sometimes, especially around about this hour of the evening (midnight here). However i do agree on the tiptoeing over the whole infringing of copyright legalities.. could cause a backlash if pursued too much. Id hate to ever find a C&D for TDH, although id doubt that LFL would go to all that length...

I'm sorry but where does this thread say that we were not approved? I read we maybe not accepted but no where did I read we were not accepted.

Read post 12

ahh...thanks...missed that one.

I for one think this might be all about timing. This comes way to close to the same time that the British courts ruled in favor of LFL for copyright infringement. We, who are in this community understand the distinction between Ainsworth and us, While most at LFL understand that distinction as well, it's the timing of the add in conjuction with the ruling. There are plenty of people who sell items here. Why are we allowed to buy and sell copyright infringed items here while Ainsworth isn't. We know why, most at LFL do, some of LFL lawyers might, but they still need to be able to think like people who may not understand the distinction. Ainsworth and others who have had action taken against them could easily point to our ad and have some sort of legal leg to stand on to claim "why are they allowed but I'm not"

If we don't get some sort of response of something that needs to be changed, I say wait 6 months, change something minor and resubmit it.

NEF, you hit the nail on the head. I feel like this could be exactly the reason, and can't really fault LFL if it is. They have to do what they feel is best for the defense of their copyright. While it may be frustrating for us, we would probably do the same things if we were in their shoes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by never_ending_fett

I for one think this might be all about timing. This comes way to close to the same time that the British courts ruled in favor of LFL for copyright infringement. We, who are in this community understand the distinction between Ainsworth and us, While most at LFL understand that distinction as well, it's the timing of the add in conjuction with the ruling. There are plenty of people who sell items here. Why are we allowed to buy and sell copyright infringed items here while Ainsworth isn't. We know why, most at LFL do, some of LFL lawyers might, but they still need to be able to think like people who may not understand the distinction. Ainsworth and others who have had action taken against them could easily point to our ad and have some sort of legal leg to stand on to claim "why are they allowed but I'm not"

If we don't get some sort of response of something that needs to be changed, I say wait 6 months, change something minor and resubmit it.

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My thoughts exactly!!!! Still, kind of a bummer.
D

Ohhhhhh yeeeeaaahhh.. Thats right.. completely forgot about him actually. Yeah id say that'd do it.. :P

Its funny, everytime i hear of that guy i think of the chef from 'Cant Cook, Wont Cook' Ainsley Harriot.. :p and that Red Dwarf episode he did... but enough of that, back to topic.

Id have to say its a bit of bad timing on our part.. im sure a little later down the line the opportunity may be able to be presented once more, but i suppose that will be a waiting game. Pity, i was hoping to put in for the next chance of being in an add.. :S

Quote:

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Originally Posted by never_ending_fett

I for one think this might be all about timing. This comes way to close to the same time that the British courts ruled in favor of LFL for copyright infringement. We, who are in this community understand the distinction between Ainsworth and us, While most at LFL understand that distinction as well, it's the timing of the add in conjuction with the ruling. There are plenty of people who sell items here. Why are we allowed to buy and sell copyright infringed items here while Ainsworth isn't. We know why, most at LFL do, some of LFL lawyers might, but they still need to be able to think like people who may not understand the distinction. Ainsworth and others who have had action taken against them could easily point to our ad and have some sort of legal leg to stand on to claim "why are they allowed but I'm not"

If we don't get some sort of response of something that needs to be changed, I say wait 6 months, change something minor and resubmit it.

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Sorry guys..but I'm of the mind that TDH Fett costumes present in the ad probably looked better than the LFL Fett costume they're planning to release. It's my humble opinion that they would prefer us to be consumers of they're new costume line rather than builders of our own.

Hay man of war, do you know if the new costume they are gonna release, as it comes, will be '501' approved. Im going to have to cackle if its not:) Wouldnt that be just the most i-mo-ronic case ever:)

This is definitely a shame. I didn't see it coming especially after being at the table when Steve said he was optimistic and even gave his reasons behind his optimism. Nonetheless, thanks a whole bunch for continuing to pursue this and the reasoning behind its disapproval.

We defintiely haven't given up yet. We are looking into several avenues to see what, if anything, can be done. Lets keep hoping! :)

Please, let's make sure that we do not turn this into a bash LFL thread. We exist only by their good graces, which we are thankful for. It is unfortunate that the ad was declined, but hopefully there is something we can do differently. If not, that is their decision and their prerogative. Again, we are thankful that they allow TDH to exist and if we never get to do an ad, it certainly won't be the end of the world or of TDH.

Sorry to hear about this, I hope that they don't leave us hanging with no reason behind it, even if you are right on your presumptions.

Nevertheless, I can't wait to see how the ad looks.

:fettesb G-Fett :fettesb

All I want to know is if the ad doesn't run, do I still get paid?? :b

Just kidding, I'm TDH's design/branding slave and I know it.

Here's to hoping we gain some understanding not only for this instance, but for future reference as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ART ANDREWS

NEF, you hit the nail on the head. I feel like this could be exactly the reason, and can't really fault LFL if it is. They have to do what they feel is best for the defense of their copyright. While it may be frustrating for us, we would probably do the same things if we were in their shoes.

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I definately don't fault LFL for it, I can see exactly where they are coming from on it. Glad we are on the same page, great minds think alike :lol! Like I said, 6 months down the line the exact ad just might get approved. But if you've got other avenues to check before waiting it out, definately give that a try!

OK, I got the "official" scoop, thanks to Philip Wise and Steve Sansweet. LFL has nothing against this group or the ad. However, due to broader issues (not pertaining to us at all) that unfortunately won't be resolved any time soon, they don't feel it would be in their best interest to allow the ad to run. Lets not speculate or dig into it more than that as LFL has given their reasons and that is that.

While I am disappointed, I respect and support LFL's decision and appreciate 1) them allowing us to exist at all and 2) giving us an answer and not leaving us in limbo. With all of that being said, here is the final ad as we submitted it. The original concept was created by TK409, with heavy modification and final design by Gino. I also want to thank Bubba Fett for helping us get the ad in the first place. He did a lot of behind the scenes work to get adspace for us at a very comtetive rate. Also, thanks to all of those who were featured in the ad as well as all of those who volunteered to be featured in the ad. As I have said before, your continued support of this site is what makes TDH a great place to be.

On a final note, here is the ad as we submitted it. Hope you like it!

Thanks for sharing the ad Art, it looks great. Thanks to everyone who contributed to a very professional looking piece of work.

Wow, that's an awesome looking ad Art...you really outdid yourself. I don't understand why an ad pertaining to a Star Wars fan group isn't in the best interest of LFL...but I guess they have their reasons.

Did they give any hope of this happening at all in the future?

Well, it certainly was one heck of a beautiful ad!!!! Would have really fit nicely in the insider!!! Hopefully they will let us have it in there at a later time!!
D

I set that image as my desktop background. It looks great! Great job, everyone involved! Anyone mind if I spread this around various bulletin boards?

everyones suits and the ad look amazing. understandable on lfl's part. As hard as it is to not get defensive we all should be thankfull we can do this.

Sorry it didn't make it. The ad looks fantastic, great work on it guys! :cheers

Sorry to hear that it was denied however it doesn't surprise me in the least given the sensitive nature of the fine line we all tread on.

Great work EVERYONE involved! Kudos to you all!

Art, you should totally take that ad and make it into posters or fliers or SOMETHING for the next TDH table wherever it may be!

Well it was worth a try. Thank you all for trying so hard to make it work. Perhaps we can use it as a flyer to have on the TDH table at Cons?

It's a shame the ad was disapproved, it looks fantastic!
I'm going to print it out and glue it into an issue of the Insider anyway. ;)

Darn you Bob!! lol

Yes, thats dissapointing that TDH didn't make it to the Insider. I had sworn not to buy another issue about 3 or 4 years ago, but I hands down would of picked up the Insider with the TDH ad in it. :(

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Originally Posted by webchief

Art, you should totally take that ad and make it into posters or fliers or SOMETHING for the next TDH table wherever it may be!

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THAT is an EXCELLENT idea Bob!

That looks awsome

That would make an awesome inside spread for a trifold flier to be used at future TDH booths. If so, and you find room to add a few more pics, I'd definitely like to submit my OS Jango suit for consideration.
Looks great!:thumbsup:thumbsup

Ad looks awesome Art....can I use it as my new wallpaper at work??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mirax H

THAT is an EXCELLENT idea Bob!

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That would look nice in a flier between the two busts TDH is putting together!

Bob has an excellent idea. I'd take it one step further. That would make an great looking banner to go behind the TDH table at events.
Its a shame the ad didn't run. Art and the rest of the gang who put this together should be darn proud of it.

That would be a sweet poster!

The AD and the costumes look great. Unfortunate, but understandable given the current legal situation.

Maybe the Insider will wise up and do an actual article on TDH.

Brian

It would be a good idea to make it some sort of poster but include even more members in it.

man that is a awesome job in the Ad

I am sorry to hear it was denied.....maybe someday we can get it approved!!

That is just sweet. I'm disappointed it won't be in the SW Insider (I may also stick a printout in my copy ;) ) - but that ad is something to be proud of - for everyone involved in and for TDH as a whole! All those costumes are just fantastic! :cheers

It's unfortunate that so much of the world today is driven by corporate greed... The Ad looks extremely well done. I would also like to say keep your heads up everyone, as it may yet come to pass in the future.

Great work everyone. Hope to see something like this in print in the future. Given some of the issues that LFL has been dealing with, and their need to protect license holders I am not totally surprised that the ad is not running.

What a great community we have to pull this all together though eh?

Ad looks fantastic Art... I think eventually the Ad will make the Insider:thumbsup..I have no doubt;).

What a beautiful ad!! Well, maybe next time. Out of the bad comes the comes the good! Love the fliers/tri-fold pamphelet ideas!

Wow, that ad exceeded all my expectations! Great work!!!!!!!!!!!!


Great ideas to use the artwork within the TDH con table. :thumbsup

I'm curious...did Jeremy know he was going to be featured in the ad?

The ad really is very professional and well done. I think the flyer idea is great, so all of your hard work isn't confined to just giving us really cool desktop pictures.:D

Very cool and very professional guys! :thumbup
It's a shame about the decision but with everything that LFL are going through currently we kinda can see why? :doh

Wow!! The ad turned out fantastic. :cheers

It is a bummer that it could not go to print in the Insider, but like others have said, it's understandable.

BTW, did I make it in as a shadow? :lol

As a matter of fact... I think that IS you!