Seeker not delivering on goods?

Nerf

New Hunter
Is anyone else having problems with trying to get their orders from Seeker?

I placed an order for Bo Katan belts and harnesses on the 6th November 2012 and I still don't have what I paid for. A girl in my garrison bought hers the same time I did and she got hers well over 6 months ago and has now had her costume approved for quite some time. If I was told there would be a long wait I wouldn't have a problem, but he said that I would have had these around Christmas/New Years as apparently I was going to be his last commission for the year..


I've PMed him numerous times now, and I always keep getting told something along the lines of 'I'll be starting yours next week, you should expect it in a couple more weeks'. My most recent message has not been replied to at all.
 
I'm in the same situation. I ordered some Jango pieces from him around new year with a delivery time of Feb/March. I PMed him a lot of times and got the same replies.

Somehow he has a hard time right now. I understand and accept this as I know how desperate and lost you can feel.

Nevertheless, we are not the only ones. There is one additional thread.

http://www.thedentedhelmet.com/f62/seeking-seeker-48066/

He posted there and I'm sure he will do here too. But I hope with some more details on what is going on and what we can expect.

@Admins: Should we create a list of people who still expect things from him?
 
Hi i am in the same situation and stil waits for my bo katan belts and harness, but i believe in him and have patience..
 
Man you guys are something. If any of you guys want your money back please let me know. But I could guarantee everything on my list will be shipped this month.

You guys really disappoint me.
 
I don't know why you are disappointed by us. We just asked for a status.

I personally did this about once a month per PM. I did not always get an answer. And most answers I got were: I'll be there soon.

What do you think how we do feel? What do you mean with soon? What do you think we feel when we read this multiple times?

But I always told you that I trust you. If you would have said that it would take several months because you had to clear up things or get cope with something bigger, it would have been ok.

Anyway. Thanks for your reply and thanks for the estimated time.
 
I hear you.

Thanks for the support Fridam.

I truly apologize to everyone waiting on me. I WILL have everything by the end of the month.
 
Seeker, you have to look at this from a customers perspective. We've paid hundreds for a product that we've been promised will be delivered in a few weeks. Months later we still have nothing and wonder if we're going to get something. Then I send you a PM and don't get a reply. If you were in my shoes I think you'd almost draw the same conclusions that you've done a runner with our money. Sure you certainly have a good reputation and that's why we've decided to buy from you in the first place, but people with good reputations have went awry before.

As I said first in the thread, if we were told that there would be a few months wait, I personally wouldn't have a problem. Hell, I put myself on the list for one of Darth Stones Vader helmets with the full knowledge that I'd be waiting a couple of years.

I didn't know you've had real life issues and if you said so I would certainly be understanding. This thread was started to see if anyone else knew what the issue was, if any.
 
Considering I've been in an extremely similar situation, it bothers me as well when customers think that their commissions are boxed up with a UPC on the bottom, rarin' to go, and can't understand that high-quality craftsmanship not only takes time beyond set deadlines, but that life also gets in the way...be it family, medical, or financial.

Seeker, I've known you to be one of the most upstanding guys on this forum and have supplied dozens of customers their goods, many I've seen in person...so to anyone that takes it upon themselves to blast you publicly, especially since you've been in communication with them is absurd...especially when we have new guys coming aboard looking for quality replicas and stumble upon posts like theses...not only do they miss out on Seeker's products, but threads like these thwart any potential business: Not cool, at all...
 
*sigh*

Here we go again. Let's take a quick look at post counts and join dates, for starters:

Nerf: 4 - Nov 2012
hasenscharte: 57 - May 2012

If I ever decide again to do a run of anything, my listing would include: "Realize you are buying a unique work of art and craftsmanship that is both time-consuming and detailed. Also realize this is a hobby and not my job. As such, you accept the risk that timetables may fluctuate wildly and firm deadlines may not be met. If at any time before I commit actual resources to materials or labor on your commission you wish to pull out, your wish will be honored. Once I've started, though, you are committed. Because this piece cannot easily be acquired through other means, you accept that risk".

We all want our costumes to be perfect. And we want them to be done when we want (for this convention or that troop or this Halloween, etc.). But a couple things I have come to realize in several years in this hobby:

1) your ability to impose a deadline on completing a costume is directly proportional to your ability to do it yourself, and inversely proportional to how much you rely on others to fabricate parts for you. Once you go down the path of DIFM, you better be willing to invest patience.
2) More and more people who used to have fun supporting the community are getting closer and closer to throwing in the towel as it becomes less about "community" and more about "get me my ****". When runs were small and you knew each other better, stuff got done and everyone was happy. The more it becomes a buyer/seller marketplace, the more problems ensue. And I feel for anyone trying to service the demand for this stuff, as the idea of limited runs seems to only upset people and encourage hobbyists to overcommit to keep the throngs happy. Tough spot to be in.

So, before you come into my community and even obliquely start to badmouth or impune someone who helped FOUND this community and make it what it is (e.g. Seeker's Feb 2002 join date and 4300+ posts), know what you are talking about. Know who these people actually are and what they've done for the community in the past. Know that as much as you have commitments and obligations, so do they. Trust me, they aren't taking your money to finance their vacations on the French Riviera. They are serving the community because they want to and they have a valued skill and feel some sense of fulfillment in helping others become a part of it.

*rant off*
 
I'm going to re-iterate what I said in my other posts since they aren't getting read properly. I might be new to TDH, but I'm not new to costuming in general. I know how vendors work, and I'm certainly prepared to wait for a product if I'm told there will be a wait. Not once did I say that I expected my goods to be ready made and sent as soon as the order was paid for. I was under full understanding that I would have to wait some time to get what I wanted. Since the 10 months that have passed after I placed the order I have sent 5 PMs inquiring to when my gear will be ready, the last of which wasn't replied to and the rest of which I was told I'd have it within a couple of weeks of correspondance. Without proper answers to my PMs, of course all I'm going to do is make assumptions for the worst. How do you think this looks when a fellow garrison member ordered exact same thing around the exact same time (give or take a couple of days) and receives it months ago?

Is it unreasonable of me then that I start to wonder about whether I'm getting my gear or not?

This thread was never to put down Seekers reputation and although it's sort of worked out that way was it was never my intention. I was trying to gauge whether I was the only one in this position and if there were any others who might be able to tell me what might be happening. As it turns out, it's real life issues and I respect that - but it's also something that Seeker could have easily explained to me in a PM and I would have been more than understanding.

Anyway, this is starting to become a circlejerk. Admin/mods - Feel free to delete this thread if you see fit.
 
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Well said Madmartigan. This is a fantastic community based on trust and in many cases, friendship. You are not buying from a company. You are buying from a person who offers a service and has a more than reputable history. This is a hobby. Life isn't and sometimes it gets in the way. We have no control over it. Seeker, I hope all is ok dude.
 
*sigh*

Here we go again. Let's take a quick look at post counts and join dates, for starters:

Nerf: 4 - Nov 2012
hasenscharte: 57 - May 2012

How very, very pompous. Who cares when they joined? Who cares how many posts they have? I'm on this board EVERY day, and have been (give or take), since 2007. Yet I didn't join the forum until 2009 and I barely have 200 posts. Does that mean that I'm not entitled to your respect? Does that mean that when I have a reasonable concern, I should feel reluctant to ask the board for help, because I don't have the cred?

If I ever decide again to do a run of anything, my listing would include: "Realize you are buying a unique work of art and craftsmanship that is both time-consuming and detailed. Also realize this is a hobby and not my job. As such, you accept the risk that timetables may fluctuate wildly and firm deadlines may not be met. If at any time before I commit actual resources to materials or labor on your commission you wish to pull out, your wish will be honored. Once I've started, though, you are committed. Because this piece cannot easily be acquired through other means, you accept that risk".

It sounds like I should be thrilled that you'll accept my money! This isn't an exchange between a seller and a buyer, it's a merciful gift from you to me!
Wrong.
Your disclaimer above is solid, but it sure has an attitude of "I'll get to it when I get to it." It should include something along the lines of "I'll try my best to meet agreed-upon deadlines, but in the event that I'm unable to follow through on MY projected timetable, every effort will be made to inform the purchaser and/or respond to emails/PMs in a timely manner."

We all want our costumes to be perfect. And we want them to be done when we want (for this convention or that troop or this Halloween, etc.). But a couple things I have come to realize in several years in this hobby:

1) your ability to impose a deadline on completing a costume is directly proportional to your ability to do it yourself, and inversely proportional to how much you rely on others to fabricate parts for you. Once you go down the path of DIFM, you better be willing to invest patience.
2) More and more people who used to have fun supporting the community are getting closer and closer to throwing in the towel as it becomes less about "community" and more about "get me my ****". When runs were small and you knew each other better, stuff got done and everyone was happy. The more it becomes a buyer/seller marketplace, the more problems ensue. And I feel for anyone trying to service the demand for this stuff, as the idea of limited runs seems to only upset people and encourage hobbyists to overcommit to keep the throngs happy. Tough spot to be in.

It's not about a breakdown in the community. New vendors are popping up left and right.
Reasonable expectations are just that...reasonable. The OP has been waiting about 10 months, and he's sent 5 PMs? I don't see ANYthing in there that has an attitude of "get me my ****." The VAST majority of the time, these kind of threads are a LAST resort on the part of the poster. It seems that way in this situation, also.

So, before you come into my community and even obliquely start to badmouth or impune someone who helped FOUND this community and make it what it is (e.g. Seeker's Feb 2002 join date and 4300+ posts), know what you are talking about. Know who these people actually are and what they've done for the community in the past. Know that as much as you have commitments and obligations, so do they. Trust me, they aren't taking your money to finance their vacations on the French Riviera. They are serving the community because they want to and they have a valued skill and feel some sense of fulfillment in helping others become a part of it.

*rant off*

It's OUR community. Not yours, or those members with a join date of 2002 and a post count of 4300+.

And there have been several so-called founders of this site who have been dismissed (some well-deserved, some not so much). Nerf neither badmouthed nor impuned Seeker. I'm sure that Seeker will come through (I'm positive, in fact), but I also can't blame Nerf in any way, shape or form for asking the board for input, after several attempts (and quite a bit of patience).

I've said it before, but it needs repeating...

Vendors: THANK YOU for providing your services to this community (in exchange for tax-free cash). Your work, time and craftmanship is appreciated! You are also only as good as your last sale. That's not entirely fair, but that is the nature of capitalism. No one is expecting instantaneous turnaround times (I loooove it when members remind other members that "this isn't Walmart"). Every vendor, anywhere, knows this, and life happens, yes, but like everything, a little communication goes a long way. For example, the OP (to whom your post is directed) stated that he's put himself on a list for a helmet where the agreed-upon delivery time might stretch into YEARS. That's crazy to me, but since both buyer and seller have agreed to an extended delivery time, everyone is fine with it. That delivery time was set to protect the seller from harrassment or badmouthing, and to inform the buyer as to the possible wait time. Definitely not a conventional ETA, but all parties know what to expect.

The formula goes like this:

(Seller/Buyer) Make a deal.
(Seller) Name a price.
(Seller) Set a date.
(Seller) Get paid.
(Seller) Start work.
(Seller) Meet deadline (if not, shoot - or respond to - a PM/email/IM/phone call/text).
(Seller) Ship product.
(Buyer) Sing seller's praises to all who will listen.

You know who knew this like the back of his hand?

Our friend and an absolute pillar in this community, Asok.
 
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Very well written, Chris. On behalf of anyone that does what we do, thank you. A poignant retrospective for me personally as I look back over the several public crucifixions I've endured over the last two years. It would have been nice to see a public shout of support like that.

I can put myself on both sides of this fence. I've been on both sides. But no matter what your time in grade is as a buyer/collector/casual fan, you can never truly grasp or embrace what it's like on the Artist's / Provider's side of that fence. In the last 4 years, the mentality has turned from one of a kind pieces of Art, to merchandising. At it's most basic, carnal level. I think everyone should take a step back and really look at it for what it really is. And Chris nailed it. People like Arturo, myself, find a certain level of satisfaction in 'providing'. We're not a sweat shop in China distributing for Walmart. Or Apple. For the good, or the bad, it simply is what it is. 99% of the time it's one guy, two hands, and every bit as much day to day life and drama to balance as anyone else. In some cases more. Yet we still do what we do. And with that chosen path, there is a great deal more one end's up having to contend with. Inevitably, you'll always find yourself in a jam with your customers over life's many up's and down's. And I wouldn't wish that on my enemies. The pressure that's imposed can be crushing. Life sucking. The last thing an Artist or a provider needs, is a public witch hunt. It's demoralizing, and can even be crippling to the Artist/Provider. If you are trying to motivate someone to crank out a commission, what you often end up doing is turning the gun back on yourself.

All that's necessary is a little common sense. Who are they? How long have they been around? How active in the community have they been? What have they contributed to the community? Have you seen any negative press about them in the last 6 months or a year? In a case like Arturo's, or even my own, it's pretty obvious that we've been here for more than a decade. Still active members (albeit sometimes dormant for periods of time). If it were a member of a year or two old, someone not really known or
active, or maybe haven't contributed or proven themselves, there might be a reason to be concerned with someone falling down and running with your funds. But people like Arturo and I, have not only been here for more than a decade, we've both shown our resolve. Through thick and thin. In that decade, we've both suffered deaths, sickness, loss, marriage, births,divorce, financial woes and everything else life can throw at a regular joe. And never once was there a thread left on the record where either of us left their customers in a lurch. Not one that concluded with "he ran off with everyone's money, class action lawsuit filed, prosecuted , convicted, and currently serving time". Instead, with a little research, you'll find both of us, still serving the community. And let's face it, I've had my share of bad press, namely in 2012. But not Arturo. There's never been a cross word said about him. Even more of a reason to give him more than just a benefit of a doubt.

Arturo (Seeker), is one of, if not the most genuine guy you'll ever meet.
He is a man of deep integrity, honesty, and moral fiber. I consider him a friend. A true friend. And as long as I've known him, he's never let a single soul down.

We all run into delays. And from the perspective of a provider, and having been through very publicized personal tribulations, I've developed a new attitude where transparency is concerned. Just because someone has paid you cash for a commission, doesn't mean you are entitled to prying into anyone's personal lives. The provider doesn't owe anyone a single detail about their personal situation. Only that they are still breathing, and working hard to meet their commitments. Threads like this promote conjecture, speculation, and eventually force someone to expose their personal hardships to the world in an attempt to allay the concerns of those they may have business with. Concerns that are in a lot of cases unfounded.

Threads like this, are a relatively new trend in the last 5 years. Especially the last 2. Publicly calling someone out couldn't be more counter productive. It rally's negativity. It fuels poor situations and turns them into blazing infernos. It really needs to stop. If not for any other reason discussed here, then consider this. People are leaving this community. From older members to new. Because this isn't what TDH has ever been about. It was tighter knit that that. There are even providers/suppliers/vendors that have slowly but thusly faded away, and quietly moved on to Facebook.
Big vendors. Think about it? A hostile environment is not where anyone wants to spend their time. And in the end, that's all these types of threads do ... create a hostile environment. Because they attract flies. They bring out the worst in human mob mentality. And that mob mentality always makes a situation so much larger than it really was to begin with. The scale changes. It becomes bigger than us, if left to run it's course.

Good intentions in starting this thread, or not. This thread should be an example of think twice before pressing that submit button. In the end, the one single most significant consequence a buyer/collector/casual fan never considers, is the permanent bad mark that it leaves for the Artist/Provider when the smoke has cleared. It's a black eye that doesn't disappear or heal. It only fades very slowly into obscurity. But the damage has already been done. It will be there living on in annals of google cache for many years to come
 
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fettpride and/or anyone else:

What is, amongst vendors, considered acceptable? When PMs go unanswered and time continues to pass, what is considered acceptable for a customer to do, in your opinion?
 
Ryan,

That is something that will always be subjective I think. Both sides of the fence will have different views. But the one thing that I've been taught, through trial, fire, and good advice from Art, is that communication is key. I can't agree more. I've found that in whatever it is I'm dealing with as a supplier, 99% of the time, a customer is more than willing to bend as long as an open line of communication is kept. Since I've adopted a VERY open policy to allow my customers to reach me virtually any time of day or night, I've eased my own burdens greatly. And have provided a better service to my customers. But I still fall flat at times. Sometimes I can go a few days without being able to keep up with messages. It does happen. I'm not speaking for Arturo there because I don't know his personal situation.

But in my own opinion, I think the public call out should be a last resort. Pm'ing isn't enough to rely on. Sometimes I don't log in for several days, or several weeks. I don't always get email notifications that someone has sent me a PM, even though my user control panel says it's 'ON'. Perhaps after trying other avenues first, such as email, Facebook, or even a private beating of the bush by speaking to others, it's likely the only course. But presentation is key. If these types of threads are decided to be the only recourse, perhaps presenting them as a simple "Trying to reach Seeker / Fettpride / Random Vendor" instead of an immediate public summary of their concerns and historical account of their transaction, would be a better approach. Immediately 'airing' the details is uncalled for. And rally's the mob mentality.

Being more tactful is key. As I said in my last post, the damage it can cause can last a long time. Long after that single customer found satisfaction / resolution, the Artist / Provider has to live with the consequences of a customer having jumped the gun. Google cache is a pretty permanent record.

Just my 2 cents
 
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Well said Chris.

I can vouch for FP's system and i must say it keeps me at ease knowing i can contact him through other means. As a matter of a fact because of that policy, i have become friends with him and alot of the time i do talk to him im not even asking about my stuff. Of course i do ask, but its a casual, "so where are we at" kinda thing rather than "so i paid you on blah blah and its now blah blah, how come i dont have my stuff yet?" Patience is key in this hobby. I know for a fact that i will get my stuff from FP or most other well know vendors. I know seeker is a well known vendor as well and though i have never worked with him, i know him to be trustworthy through other members and i would certainly not hesitate to order from him.
 
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Like most similar threads on this board this comes down to communication. Most buyers would be happy with honest updates, not receiving every month a "your order is about to ship" then nothing heard until the next enquiry by the customer.
If there is a delay then say that there is one and if there is a significant delay then the notifications should be from the seller and not rely on the customer making the enquiries.
With good and honest communication then none of these posts would exist because both sides would know where they stand.

Craig
 
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