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RECASTING - A must read ...

  1. #1

    RECASTING - A must read ...

    Hi Everyone,

    First, I want to apologize for having to take the time out to
    address matters like this. As busy as things are right now,
    I'm sure my time would be better spent doing what I should
    be doing, and that certainly isn't writing novels.

    As many of you have probably seen, yesterday I found that
    my Nemrod V.1 SideArm Holster Replica has been recast.
    Unfortunately, it appears to have been a misunderstanding
    across the board as to the "who, what, where, and how".
    Initially, it appeared to have been our own "Stormrider".
    As more developed, it became clear very quickly, that Mike
    "Stormrider" was mislead and was caught in the middle of
    a misunderstanding he didn't even know the half of, until
    now.

    So before I get to the bones of the matter, I'd like
    to extend a Public Apology to Mike (Stormrider), who I
    do not believe had any unscrupulous intent in mind.
    Along those same lines, Mike was buffaloed into a project
    that he headed whole heartedly into and was taken advantage
    of. He did not realize he was recasting a copy of my work.
    As an act of good faith to him, and to help him recover his
    monetary losses, I am extending him a public offer to
    continue forward with the sales of his holster replica to recoup
    his lost investment with my blessing. This offer however has
    strings. All I would ask, is that Mike sells enough of the castings
    to recoup his investment, and that he does NOT sell the mold
    but instead after the run is finished, to send me the depleted
    molds. After his investment has been made back, I would ask
    that he ceases further production permanently.

    I want Milke, as well as the rest of the community to know,
    that I am not the demon some of you make me to be. It isn't
    always about money. In a case like this, one of our own members
    was hugely taken advantage of and he shouldn't be forced to
    eat it. Especially in times like this. So Mike, if you're reading
    this, have at it brother. Just let me know the specifics in terms of
    how many of these you need to sell and keep me in the loop as
    far as how it all goes.

    To the matter at hand :

    What this thread IS about, is the deplorable behavior of those in the
    communities we call re-casters. It's a blanket term, that most of
    us are all too familiar with.

    I am NOT here to debate what a re-caster is, and isn't. It was made
    very clear, again, what this membership's stance is on the matter.

    (this is an excerpt from another thread about Mike, before Mike's
    name was cleared and only used to reiterate the Administrations
    stance)


    Art Andrews said: View Post
    We do not allow recasts of other member's work, even if it is from a found part without that member's approval.

    I am not sure when or where our stance on this became confused, but for the sake of clarity, let me quote our official position:


    I am assuming the confusion came from the part which states: "recasting another member’s creation without consent is not supported by this community" and someone took 'creation' to mean original sculpture. This is not the case.

    While you may be ok with this type of recasting on a personal level, as a community, we don't support it. If you brought us evidence of a member recasting either your Webley or HiC, we would stop them from actively selling it here and/or at the RPF.

    There is no need for you to disappear. There was clearly a misunderstanding due to you being given some bad information and the situation was exacerbated by the previous issues you and FP have had with one another. While I am sure it is frustrating and I know you are out $$$, we can't support you selling these here as they are recasts of Chris' work.
    Now that it is clear what the rules are, you all need to be made aware that we
    still have a re-caster in our midst.

    In researching this matter it came to my attention that the holster that Mike (Stormrider) procured, was from our own Fettdad (Darrel Sanderson). Wether
    or not it was actually a copy from my molds, or not, it became clear that it
    was Darrell that had actually been recasting my holster.

    Apparently he's been selling them for some time @$165. How long is unclear.
    But the first thing to consider, is that Darrell purchased at least 3 of these holsters
    from me personally. All of a sudden he's producing his own

    Whereas that isn't enough evidence in of itself, it gets clearer. So bear with me.

    In my poking around threads, I found that there were references all over the place that he has been selling holsters. But unlike ANYTHING else he sells, he NEVER advertised in the cargo hold for it. All sales have been handled on the QT in PM.
    That raises many flags.

    I come to find out that the holster that Darrell sent Mike, was broken, shattered.
    It appears to have been broken in a molding mishap. Still, not enough.

    So I put out feelers for individuals to come forward with any information about
    Darrell, his communications with them, transaction histories, or pictures. It
    only took a few moments for me to find all of the evidence necessary.

    I have contacted Darrell in regards to this matter. So there is nothing left to the
    imagination here, I am going to post it publicly.

    fettpride said:
    Darrell,

    It saddens me deeply that I am actually sending you this message.

    As we all know, shady things always find a way to surface, especially
    when you don't trust the right people.

    It came to light yesterday that Stormrider recast my Nemrod Holster.
    But when I pulled the string and started to unravel this mess, to my
    dismay I found out that you've been selling holsters on the sly as well.
    Right before I found that out, I found out that it was you he got the
    casting off of to recast. So technically, he recast me, through YOU.
    And to think, I hung him out, when the fact is, he didn't even
    have a clue.

    It's fairly pointless for me to approach you with any shadow of a doubt.
    You seem to think that you'd reproduced a "found item" from the real
    world. But there is one thing you didn't consider buddy. I've been around
    a long time. I put major tells in my work. Because I expect this sort of
    behavior, and I want to call people on it when it happens. The only thing you
    did to it, was mold in the strap. Did it ever occur to you that you had no idea
    what you were fooling with ?

    I certainly didn't expect this from you, Darrell. You offered me support in
    my darkest times. You were always a great guy to me. It hurts me deeply,
    that it had to be you.

    I have forwarded all of my evidence to Art Andrews, and I will be submitting
    a thread to address this matter. There is no way this could have been a simple
    mistake man. You bought how many holsters from me ?? Do you even remember?
    So, very sad. And for your efforts, I will make absolutely sure your business on
    TheDentedHelmet.com is brought to an abrupt end.

    Chris

    As harsh as it may seem, I'm am absolutely done with this kind of behavior.
    So many times, I've had to deal with things like this, and it's always said
    that "the proof is the burden of the accuser". So I eventually, and begrudgingly
    started putting signatures in my work. In this particular case, some of these
    signatures weren't purposeful, but necessary to complete the task.

    The original holster that was used as a master, was in poor condition. Outwardly
    it seemed to look ok, but it turned out to be so brittle from age and salt water
    exposure, that it started to crumble. Literally. Portions of the holster had to be
    rebuilt. In doing so, a whole new master had to be made to allow for this as the
    original holster is made of a vinyl material that nothing will stick to. In making
    this new master, some aspects of it had to be rebuilt/re-sculpted. Whereas it
    turned out to be one hell of a replica, it was not an exact replica. Which is why I recently abandoned it and started to finish off my V.2 holster project, which IS an
    exact replica.

    The funny thing is, a typical person doesn't know, and cannot tell the differences.
    But they are glaring to the two guys who worked their asses off bringing this
    replica to the community for the first time in the history of TDH. And these signs
    and tells are irrefutable. But your average sleezy re-caster won't consider that
    they might be playing with fire.

    I don't call Darrell out on this to be a jerk. Some of you would ask, why would I even care since I've nearly abandoned it for V.2 ? Because it's principal. Wether a found part or not, it was "I" that spent 8 weeks trying to figure out how to even make
    a mold of something so complex. I invested $1000 in materials for 3 failed experimental molds before I was able to make this happen for you all. What this
    is about is exhaustion. I have continuously put out for this community. I can't go
    on being stabbed between the shoulder blades like this. It's disheartening, disenchanting. And frankly, between my being called out continuously about members fears of my running off with their money, and people continuously taking advantage,
    I can almost assure you, that my time with this community is now limited. I just can't give anymore. I have absolutely no life, for the cause. You all seem to think I make a fortune at this. Maybe even live some lavish lifestyle. Carefree and oblivious to those
    around me that seem to think I look at them like the peasants of the costuming community. If that is the opinion any of you have formed of me, you are diluted. There seems to always be someone right around the corner that wants to be the next big Fett maker, with delusions of grandeur, and wanting to walk all over my ***. And use me as their shortcut. Or criticize me because I'm not doing enough, or that I'm not doing it fast enough. The truth is, no matter what I do, it is never enough. It is indeed a dog eat dog world, and I for one am not going to tolerate it anymore.

    What I am going to do at this point, is hold back on the exact evidence that I am referring to until Darrell comes forward. The reason for this is to not show all
    of my cards. But I can say, there is a major tell in the Nemrod Logo that I am prepared to expose foremost. But I'm not about to speak of it until his side of the story has been given. I will of course provide it to the Administration in the meantime. I wouldn't make these claims openly, and publicly and risk my own reputation if I wasn't absolutely sure.

    I can tell you all how incredibly, sickly tired I am of this. For the moment, I leave you with the photo of a "Fettdad" Nemrod Holster Replica ..



    Thank you all for your attention to this matter. I would ask, if you have any respect for me, or my work ... not to patronize sellers of my recast works. The vast majority of the time, what you will receive, albeit faster likely, is a cheap imitation. For not much less money apparently. By buying from these people, you promote them.
    And above all, ask questions. That is the key. For your sake as well. How many of you have been taken advantage of because you were an unsuspecting buyer? If in doubt, post publicly about it here. Ask about "who, what, where, how, and what quality". It protects us all. And this shouldn't be taken as my wanting to monopolize any particular part or component. If someone can do it better, and more efficiently, I will celebrate them, not be bitter. Remember, I'm the one who sells my molds to carry on pieces to the community that I simply have no more time for. If it was all about money to me, I would grub my molds, or destroy them when I'm finished. Not allow someone to carry on my pieces.

  2. #2
    Lucksy31's Avatar
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    Re: RECASTING - A must read ...

    Wow FP, sorry to see this. Speechless bro...

  3. #3
    WTFett's Avatar
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    Re: RECASTING - A must read ...

    Wow.

  4. #4
    Drexx Korso's Avatar
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    Re: RECASTING - A must read ...

    Chris I'm sorry to hear all of this. I know when stuff like this happens it must be really discouraging for you, especially when it's someone you felt you knew (as a lot of us did as well). It would **** me off to no end as I'm sure you are.

    I think this mostly goes unspoken from many members who you have a hand in helping create their Fett but thank you for making this an attainable hobby for me.

    As a lucky original nemrod holster owner I think I see the difference you are speak of

  5. #5

    Re: RECASTING - A must read ...

    sorry to butt in with randomness, but what is a nemod holster? fett part?

  6. #6
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    Re: RECASTING - A must read ...

    mandosoldier said: View Post
    sorry to butt in with randomness, but what is a nemod holster? fett part?
    Nemrod Speargun Holster - Boba Fett Costume Resource

  7. #7
    SlabFett's Avatar
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    Re: RECASTING - A must read ...

    WOW!!! That made me sick to my stomach. I own an original FP Nemrod Holster along with a lot of other FP pieces and I have had many dealing with Darrel over the years. I am shocked that Darrel would do such a thing. I am sorry that this happened Chris.

  8. #8
    Loanstar's Avatar
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    Re: RECASTING - A must read ...

    Relay sad to see that this happen again again and again !!!

  9. #9
    clonecollector's Avatar
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    Re: RECASTING - A must read ...

    Sorry to see this type of thing happen again.

  10. #10
    Yorke's Avatar
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    Re: RECASTING - A must read ...

    Wow... I am still waiting on a holster from FettDad... I'm just over the 45 day mark so can't dispute it on PP. Should I not even expect it to come?
    Sorry to hear about all this. Didn't realize I was buying a recast.

  11. #11
    Stormrider's Avatar
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    Re: RECASTING - A must read ...

    I appreciate the apology, and am not fully sure I deserve it. I can appreciate the dimensions of this scenario, and am not fully sure that I am blameless. I have spoken to chris on the phone at length, and have expressed the same to him.

    I dont like villainizing darrell fully. (And let me be clear that I dont think that FP is doing that), I mean in general as hes not the only one at fault here. I would rather shoulder the blame, as I made a mold of a prop that I could see wasnt an original. With a few caveots that were both mis-information and mis-interpretation. I thought chris had abandoned his project (as I had seen the molds for sale thread a long time ago) and had sought information about 'copies of found items' that turned out to be the wrong information. I dont know that darrell would have or could have been able to make this mold without me, and without me being readily willing to do it without really going out, making contacts and examining the situation myself.

    ^ ^ What im saying here is that chris is being extremely generous here in not blaming me. Ignorance is not defence and its been made clear that this could be a much more difficult situation.

    First yorke, pm me your shipping information. I have a slightly off color I can send you. Its darkest grey. We can discuss the shipping.

    Chris has offered to let me make a few of these to recoup the cost of the mold. I will do roughly 10 of them. Ill update the thread to reflect so. I hope to be able to send chris a mold that has a good portion of life left.

    I have told chris that im not sure I deserve to be exempt of this. Contrary to what I believed his stance would be, he has been more than supporting and generally good to me in light of this. Likely nicer than I would have been myself.

    I dont intend to recoup my hours (many), just the cost of making the mold. The rubber that goes into these isnt cheap, neither the casting rubber, nor the silicone.

    M2

  12. #12

    Re: RECASTING - A must read ...

    Comparing Chris' posted picture of the holster to an original I have on hand, I can see the obvious tell in the Nemrod logo very clearly. Very clever, I must say.
    Last edited by Lufo1138; Apr 23, 2011 at 1:30 PM.

  13. #13
    formerly old_jedi_mind_trick Bobby Fett UK's Avatar
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    Re: RECASTING - A must read ...

    Sorry to here this Chris, and you too Mike. I remember you two being pretty close a while back. The way you have both conducted yourself in this matter is pretty inspirational and I sincerely hope you can take a step closer to being back where you once were on a personal level, you certainly made of the right stuff for that to happen.

    The recasting issue will always rear it's head but it surprises me that such a high profile member (Darrell) would end up embroiled in this, seemingly with the only intent to make a few dollars. It is also a sad shame that this WILL NOT be an isolated case, and that other members will be selling items that are re-cast secretly via pm's or emails off the board to buyers hoping to save a little money, but you really do get what you pay for. Maybe the only reason this came to light is because the mold required is a complex one and needs someone with experience in mould making to pull it off, something the original seller learned the hard way.

    Rob.

  14. #14
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    Re: RECASTING - A must read ...

    first of all, i am no recaster, i have never recasted anything...i dont have the skills to do that, but i am honored that someone in such a high position would actually think i do, so cheers!

    second, after seeing the need for holsters here on TDH, and the time frame people were having to wait from our armor/helmet/etc omipotent god vendor here, i figured i would step in and help out...after seeing that this individual had sold his, or her, molds for the version one holster, and that it was A FOUND ITEM, i took it upon myself to get with someone to make some holsters for the community...now, it is going around that i have sold like fifty of these, and having them done in Europe...LOL!! i have sold maybe, MAYBE ten of these to close friends on here to help them out so they didnt have to deal with the anticks of said vendor ousting me...

    so, with that being said, apparantly the admin i spoke to wont show up, and the fact the holster is a found item, and that the rules in the COC dont apply to every one, i am done here...i will finish my obligations to TDH and those that have sent me money...but the pettiness of the silly little threats coming from the top dont amuse me, i see it every day dealing with high school girls threatening each other in the hall ways...

    cheers guys, been nice...get your facts straight before hanging someone out to dry...peace!
    Last edited by FettDad; May 4, 2011 at 8:38 PM.

  15. #15
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    Re: RECASTING - A must read ...

    by the way, we all steal here...
    Last edited by FettDad; May 4, 2011 at 8:38 PM.

  16. #16
    Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
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    Re: RECASTING - A must read ...

    FettDad said: View Post
    second, after seeing the need for holsters here on TDH, and the time frame people were having to wait from our armor/helmet/etc omipotent god vendor here, i figured i would step in and help out...after seeing that this individual had sold his, or her, molds for the version one holster, and that it was A FOUND ITEM, i took it upon myself to get with someone to make some holsters for the community...
    There are a number of things that aren't clear in what you are saying and I am just going to cut through the vagueness and name names because I am assuming most people know who you are talking about anyway. First, we have never stopped competition on this site. We have a number of people selling competing products and there is no problem with that. I don't know why or how you being told that fettpride sold his holster mold had anything to do with your deicison to offer holster. Second, just to make sure there is no confusion, you were given bad information as Chris had that mold for sale but didn't sell it, but that is really beside the point because anyone is welcome to buy an original holster, mold it, and start offering castings. However, where it seems there is some confusion regarding found items is that while you are welcome to buy your own ORIGINAL found item holster and mold it, and offer castings, you cannot use another member's casting of a found item, recast it and start offering castings. I am not sure where you got the idea that this was ok, and perhaps there are others who also are confused on this point, so let me be clear; it is NOT ok to recast a casting of a found item that was created by another member!

    FettDad said: View Post
    so, with that being said, apparantly the admin i spoke to wont show up
    This is another point you seem to be confused about (and again, I am going to name names. It is my understanding that you spoke to asok who was an admin a number of years ago, but hasn't been on the admin staff in a long time. You implication is that he is hiding but the truth is, he doesn't spend much time at TDH any more due to real life obligations. Lets not paint this like it is a conspiracy when it isn't. Either asok gave you the wrong information or you completely misunderstood what he told you.

    FettDad said: View Post
    and the fact the holster is a found item
    The fact that the holster is a found item doesn't mean it is ok to recast another member's casting of it.

    FettDad said: View Post
    and that the rules in the COC dont apply to every one
    In what way?

    FettDad said: View Post
    i am done here...i will finish my obligations to TDH and those that have sent me money...but the pettiness of the silly little threats coming from the top dont amuse me, i see it every day dealing with high school girls threatening each other in the hall ways...
    It will be a shame to see you leave over what is clearly a misunderstanding on your part of our stance regarding the recasting of found items, but that will be your decision to make.

  17. #17
    Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
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    Re: RECASTING - A must read ...

    FettDad said: View Post
    by the way, we all steal here...
    You do realize making a statement like that doesn't help your argument in any way and only makes you look like you are having to stoop to the pettiest of excuses to defend your position. Why would you say something like that?

  18. #18
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    Re: RECASTING - A must read ...

    its whatever...i am finishing my dealings with my customers, whether here or via phone, and then done with this nonsense...i know whose side you are on, Art, the guy who made you ALOT of money with GMH helmet project...cheers!

    if i am banned, that is fine....admin doesnt believe me, cause fettpride doesnt...isnt that who we serve? Chris, hmpf, maybe you are a god...lol!! anyways, i will keep in contact with my customers via another member to stay on top of information needed to get to them...or, you guys can email me at:

    d k k sanderson at hot mail dot com no spaces anywhere...i am loyal to my customers, but this is over...

    as far as asok is concerned, really? he hasnt been admin for years? news to me...??? so the rules have changed since he has left? thanks for letting us know... i guess when you run the site, you can change rules and how they are worded on a daily basis...great!

    if banning is needed, i understand fully...would be nice to wait to do so once i have finished my business with my customers...but it is fine...i am not going to be frequenting here anyway, and i have said my piece... but if i get banned, it is the customer that gets hurt in the process...just a thought...
    Last edited by FettDad; May 4, 2011 at 8:37 PM.

  19. #19
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    Re: RECASTING - A must read ...

    meh, i went to far on this one... so this post has been edited for content...
    Last edited by FettDad; May 4, 2011 at 8:37 PM.

  20. #20
    mmgraphics's Avatar
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    Re: RECASTING - A must read ...

    Very sad to see what this thing turns into ... FettDad, you´re a good friend of mine as we´ve had many conversations over the last years here on TDH.

    I don´t understand your decision to leave TDH just because there is a misunderstanding ... ???

    I always thought you would have the balls to say "ok, I am sorry ... I did misunderstand something." and all would be cleared.

    You did so much for the community here, the most of us would have forgiven you that little sidestep ...

    Come on D, kick yourself in the butt and stay!

    Manuel

  21. #21
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    Re: RECASTING - A must read ...

    i dont think i did anything wrong...but it wont happen again...and i certainly dont need this...sorry

  22. #22
    mmgraphics's Avatar
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    Re: RECASTING - A must read ...

    If you really leave, you let everybody think: "They were right. He did it."

    Please think about your decision because I don´t wanna lose a friend here just because of this. And I guess there are enough brothers here who think alike.

    I am a friend of Chris and a friend of you and I hate to see that just you both have to get into trouble ...

  23. #23

    Re: RECASTING - A must read ...

    Darrell,

    It saddens me even more that your response to this shows no remorse,
    and a very apparent reckless disregard.

    There are misunderstandings in life. Anyone our age knows this especially.
    Matters like this however, show the true nature of how incredibly "backbiting"
    the costuming community really is. I liken it to a fresh corpse laying in the
    baking sun, and a gaggle of vultures circling their lunch.

    You state that your primary excuse was my having sold my molds. You thought.
    I've always considered you a man of integrity, Darrell. Even if I had sold my molds,
    it still doesn't make it "right" to use one of my models to serve yourself. This has
    nothing to do with the "community". This is made very transparent when you consider
    that if it were meant to be a benefit to the community, you would have publicly offered
    the holster as you do with everything else you make. Or at least everything that I know
    you make. Instead, for how ever long this has been going on, you've only solicited the
    sale of the holster in Private Messaging. When someone approaches you for a harness
    or a blaster, you nearly give them "canned solicitation". "BTW, are you interested in a
    holster"? This doesn't look as if you felt that any of it was above board enough to offer
    the holster in a public run or Cargo Hold sale. And I can't reasonably say that I can
    believe that it was only to "a few close friends", when I've received support and
    communications with individuals that have been solicited this way. And there were
    far more than 10. I know there has been volume, and I know how much you were
    selling them for. Exactly $20 less than I did. That doesn't look like you're competing
    with the man you stole from, does it?

    The fact is, whatever money you made from this, was money that was taken directly
    from me in a manner of speaking. But it's not as much about the money. Or I wouldn't
    have condoned Mike selling recasts of my holster to recuperate funds he lost in a deal
    gone sour with you. You left him in quite a lurch. So from a certain point of view, which
    no one seems to have picked up on yet, or acknowledged, that's even MORE money taken
    from me over all this. This should speak volumes about "my" character, "my" integrity.
    What this is more about, is the reckless disregard I spoke of. It seems that no one
    gives a **** anymore, about the sanctity that has been the honor amongst thieves.
    Put simply, found item or not ... no one seems to give a **** about what goes into
    something as complex as that holster was. This is about principle. It was my sweat
    that made it happen, when no one else could figure out how to do it. It was my
    money out of pocket that was lost in 8 weeks of mold R&D. It was my wasted time
    invested when the holster had to be heavily modified to even make it feasible to
    to produce without an injection molding plant. There is a reason the holster had not
    been produced until I produced it. Because it was near impossible to reproduce without
    professional facilities and tools. You, nor anyone else would have been able to recast
    it as easy as you did, if "I" hadn't already made it "recast-able". That was my first
    clue that something was amiss. No one, ever really knows what goes on behind the scenes
    to make things like this happen. If you wanted to produce a holster, integrity would dictate
    that you find your own, and struggle as I did. Not use me as a step ladder. But that is the
    point isn't it? You didn't take into consideration that this piece isn't as cut and dry as it
    seemed. Never considering it's complexity and that "someone else" had already made it easy
    for you. Never once considering that perhaps you should compare it to an Original. Or maybe,
    obtain an original for yourself, and figure out everything I had to, yourself. No, THAT is the
    mentality of an average re-caster. There are no considerations. Just shortcuts, at someone else's
    expense, because you saw dollar signs in a demand, that I couldn't meet to the extent that would
    make everyone "Wal-Mart" happy. Your taking shots at "me" for not being able to satisfy the
    masses, is low, and completely unnecessary. Normally, I would say, if you think you could do
    better, go for it. This is America. But you even took that from me buddy. Because you DID go
    for it

    However you went about it, is left to be known. And I really don't care anymore. The facts
    are the facts, Darrel. But it is clear that you've had someone else producing them. Wether it's
    the U.K. or wether it's Florida. It doesn't matter. Without specific facts with regard to "who else"
    and "where else", it's not my place to say. But it's been confirmed, that your holsters aren't being
    shipped from Oklahoma, nor Indiana/Michigan (Stormrider).

    Lastly, you'r personal shots at me only reinforce that you feel cornered, Darrell. Your personal threats
    to me in private are also a sign of your true character. I wouldn't dream of posting it publicly, because
    my only intent in all of this was to expose the facts. And the fact is, you took advantage of me, and
    now you're on the defensive. I have never threatened you. I posted my private message to you publicly.
    My stating that I would make sure that your business here is brought to an abrupt end, is not a threat.
    But more of a service the the community. No one, but the self serving ... wants to do business with
    someone like you.

    Chris

  24. #24
    Account Deactivated
    Member Since
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,126

    Re: RECASTING - A must read ...

    i never said i didnt do it...i dont have remorse, i did nothing wrong...it wont happen again, and the long windedness is really overwhelming...

    didnt even read your post Chris, i dont care...all i care about are my customers that need me to come thru...cheers...
    Last edited by FettDad; May 4, 2011 at 8:36 PM.

  25. #25

    Re: RECASTING - A must read ...

    FettDad said: View Post
    and the long windedness is really overwhelming...

    didnt even read your post Chris, i dont care...
    Par, for the course

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