RECASTING - A must read ...

If you really leave, you let everybody think: "They were right. He did it."

Please think about your decision because I don´t wanna lose a friend here just because of this. And I guess there are enough brothers here who think alike.

I am a friend of Chris and a friend of you and I hate to see that just you both have to get into trouble ...
 
Darrell,

It saddens me even more that your response to this shows no remorse,
and a very apparent reckless disregard.

There are misunderstandings in life. Anyone our age knows this especially.
Matters like this however, show the true nature of how incredibly "backbiting"
the costuming community really is. I liken it to a fresh corpse laying in the
baking sun, and a gaggle of vultures circling their lunch.

You state that your primary excuse was my having sold my molds. You thought.
I've always considered you a man of integrity, Darrell. Even if I had sold my molds,
it still doesn't make it "right" to use one of my models to serve yourself. This has
nothing to do with the "community". This is made very transparent when you consider
that if it were meant to be a benefit to the community, you would have publicly offered
the holster as you do with everything else you make. Or at least everything that I know
you make. Instead, for how ever long this has been going on, you've only solicited the
sale of the holster in Private Messaging. When someone approaches you for a harness
or a blaster, you nearly give them "canned solicitation". "BTW, are you interested in a
holster"? This doesn't look as if you felt that any of it was above board enough to offer
the holster in a public run or Cargo Hold sale. And I can't reasonably say that I can
believe that it was only to "a few close friends", when I've received support and
communications with individuals that have been solicited this way. And there were
far more than 10. I know there has been volume, and I know how much you were
selling them for. Exactly $20 less than I did. That doesn't look like you're competing
with the man you stole from, does it?

The fact is, whatever money you made from this, was money that was taken directly
from me in a manner of speaking. But it's not as much about the money. Or I wouldn't
have condoned Mike selling recasts of my holster to recuperate funds he lost in a deal
gone sour with you. You left him in quite a lurch. So from a certain point of view, which
no one seems to have picked up on yet, or acknowledged, that's even MORE money taken
from me over all this. This should speak volumes about "my" character, "my" integrity.
What this is more about, is the reckless disregard I spoke of. It seems that no one
gives a **** anymore, about the sanctity that has been the honor amongst thieves.
Put simply, found item or not ... no one seems to give a **** about what goes into
something as complex as that holster was. This is about principle. It was my sweat
that made it happen, when no one else could figure out how to do it. It was my
money out of pocket that was lost in 8 weeks of mold R&D. It was my wasted time
invested when the holster had to be heavily modified to even make it feasible to
to produce without an injection molding plant. There is a reason the holster had not
been produced until I produced it. Because it was near impossible to reproduce without
professional facilities and tools. You, nor anyone else would have been able to recast
it as easy as you did, if "I" hadn't already made it "recast-able". That was my first
clue that something was amiss. No one, ever really knows what goes on behind the scenes
to make things like this happen. If you wanted to produce a holster, integrity would dictate
that you find your own, and struggle as I did. Not use me as a step ladder. But that is the
point isn't it? You didn't take into consideration that this piece isn't as cut and dry as it
seemed. Never considering it's complexity and that "someone else" had already made it easy
for you. Never once considering that perhaps you should compare it to an Original. Or maybe,
obtain an original for yourself, and figure out everything I had to, yourself. No, THAT is the
mentality of an average re-caster. There are no considerations. Just shortcuts, at someone else's
expense, because you saw dollar signs in a demand, that I couldn't meet to the extent that would
make everyone "Wal-Mart" happy. Your taking shots at "me" for not being able to satisfy the
masses, is low, and completely unnecessary. Normally, I would say, if you think you could do
better, go for it. This is America. But you even took that from me buddy. Because you DID go
for it (y)

However you went about it, is left to be known. And I really don't care anymore. The facts
are the facts, Darrel. But it is clear that you've had someone else producing them. Wether it's
the U.K. or wether it's Florida. It doesn't matter. Without specific facts with regard to "who else"
and "where else", it's not my place to say. But it's been confirmed, that your holsters aren't being
shipped from Oklahoma, nor Indiana/Michigan (Stormrider).

Lastly, you'r personal shots at me only reinforce that you feel cornered, Darrell. Your personal threats
to me in private are also a sign of your true character. I wouldn't dream of posting it publicly, because
my only intent in all of this was to expose the facts. And the fact is, you took advantage of me, and
now you're on the defensive. I have never threatened you. I posted my private message to you publicly.
My stating that I would make sure that your business here is brought to an abrupt end, is not a threat.
But more of a service the the community. No one, but the self serving ... wants to do business with
someone like you.

Chris
 
i never said i didnt do it...i dont have remorse, i did nothing wrong...it wont happen again, and the long windedness is really overwhelming...

didnt even read your post Chris, i dont care...all i care about are my customers that need me to come thru...cheers...
 
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Not taking sides or anything here, but sometimes Chris' posts are a little long....HAH!

Regardless if you didn't know what you did was wrong, you still broke the rules here on TDH, and an apology most likely is in order. We all break rules every once and a while without noticing it, if I went to Michigan and took a left turn and got pulled over I wouldn't tell the officer, "I didn't know, I don't care :)", I'd at least show a little remorse. An apology is the least you could do to help rectify the situation.

I think we can all here see that Chris is hurt over the situation at hand, and it has been pointed out by the Board Owner that you have broken the rules, regardless if you knew about it prior to what you were doing.
 
Not taking sides or anything here, but sometimes Chris' posts are a little long....HAH!

Again, par for the course :(

And I'll have enough of that. I see it every day lately.

I'm consistently hung out for "over long posts". Does it ever occur to anyone,
that it's because I have something to say ?

Those that poke at me for having something to say, is only actually saying,
they don't care. And that is fine. But there are those, that do care what my
postion is on a given matter at hand.

I understand that this has become a "Wal-Mart" world of convenience. But
when did we get too lazy to read? When did it become "not cool" or no
longer "hip" to do what we as human beings do ?

Communicate?

If you don't care, or don't care read what I have to say,
then don't. But the kidding has gone too far.

Thank you,

Chris
 
I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings Chris! I wasn't aware the joke would be hurtful.

If it makes you feel any better, I always read what you have to say, because I know you put a lot of thought into your posts :)
 
Darrell,



The fact is, whatever money you made from this, was money that was taken directly
from me in a manner of speaking. But it's not as much about the money. Or I wouldn't
have condoned Mike selling recasts of my holster to recuperate funds he lost in a deal
gone sour with you. You left him in quite a lurch. So from a certain point of view, which
no one seems to have picked up on yet, or acknowledged, that's even MORE money taken
from me over all this.

I am not taking sides because I am against recasting. Being an artist myself, I would hate if someone copied my work. I had a friend who would steal mere IDEAS from me and use them as his own after he milked me for info I foolishly gave up. Needless to say, we are not friends anymore. But Chris, I am sorry, I completely disagree with this copied statement. If you sell your molds, you got your money, unless the agreement is some ongoing thing where you get a percentage of each sale. But after the mold is sold, you really can't police what happens to it afterward. Again, I am not taking sides, if FettDad did what you allege, that is unethical, but not out of the realm of possibility. I see it happen to many lesser artists. And it sucks! I understand what he was trying to say earlier when he said we all steal here. As harsh as it sounds, he is right to an extent. How did we get here? How do we have these awesome things that we do? None of it is actually authorized. But most of the good stuff never is! :) I am just saying, think about why you yourself won't even post info on who you sell the GMH to because of copyright hurdles etc. I won't go into detail because I respect the privacy ou want to keep about the project. Yes it does suck when someone takes all your hard work and use it for themselves, it has happened to me. But when it all comes down to it, as I saw it referred to on another forum, these are really nothing more than "bootleg spacesuit parts."

My $.02
 
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I am not taking sides because I am against recasting. Being an artist myself, I would hate if someone copied my work. I had a friend who would steal mere IDEAS from me and use them as his own after he milked me for info I foolishly gave up. Needless to say, we are not friends anymore. But Chris, I am sorry, I completely disagree with this copied statement. If you sell your molds, you got your money, unless the agreement is some ongoing thing where you get a percentage of each sale. But after the mold is sold, you really can't police what happens to it afterward. Again, I am not taking sides, if FettDad did what you allege, that is unethical, but not out of the realm of possibility. I see it happen to many lesser artists. And it sucks! I understand what he was trying to say earlier when he said we all steal here. As harsh as it sounds, he is right to an extent. How did we get here? How do we have these awesome things that we do? None of it is actually authorized. But most of the good stuff never is! :) I am just saying, think about why you yourself won't even post info on who you sell the GMH to because of copyright hurdles etc. I won't go into detail because I respect the privacy ou want to keep about the project. Yes it does suck when someone takes all your hard work and use it for themselves, it has happened to me. But when it all comes down to it, as I saw it referred to on another forum, these are really nothing more than "bootleg spacesuit parts."

My $.02

The point you may be missing, perhaps because it's not been clarified properly, is that i never actually "sold "
my molds, and currently produce these holsters. They were never discontinued.

Thanks (y)
 
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I watched Flash of Genius the other night, and I thought of this thread. I would recommend it to those who have a dog in this fight. It is written from the engineers point of view but it is interesting to say the least. It is about th guy who invented the intermittent wind shield wiper. The court case at the end is specifically when I thought of all of this. I don't know if this adds to this thread but it shows that these types of disagreements are not new and are not isolated to our hobby.

I just hope this can be resolved to a reasonable end


my 2 cents
 
This is all very confusing.

FettDad -- I don't get it. I've been an "admin" here for... gah... probably a couple of years now? I haven't seen this rampant abuse of power you speak of. It's easy to vilify The Dent as this abusive forum-monster until you've been online with him at some ****** hour of the morning trying to figure out how to make the site work. It's easy to say Chris is making a ton of money on these helmets until you've actually spend 12 hours in your hole making helmets.

To me, they both seem like people just trying to do something good.

There haven't ever really been public staffing notices, and most of us who have moderator type access don't really even mention it (I bet there aren't a lot of folks here that know I'm a moderator!). So Asok not being on the staff anymore... I'm not sure why you would have expected an announcement? I seem to recall him transitioning out right around when I was coming on. There was some small overlap, but not much. I could just be blurring this up with another board though.

As for Chris being a god... I also don't get that. I see him more of a slave than anything else. The dude is sitting in a hole fiberglassing helmets in all of his spare time. And he's probably lucky if he makes $10 an hour doing it.

To the point of recasting: for me it's all about respect. I personally don't care about recasting at all. I invite everyone to recast any of my stuff and sell it anywhere and anyway they want. BUT, I respect other artists and their wishes. So if Chris says that a holster is his and asks us to not copy it, I respect that. It's not about "we're all thieves here", it's not about found parts... it's just about respecting other community members.
 
I don't know either of you, I was merely stating an opinion from what I know. OK, he admitted it. He is a thief. I never said he was right. What can you do about it. Some people just suck ya know?
 
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I just hope this can be resolved to a reasonable end


my 2 cents


It seriously bewilders me, that after all is said and done, that
people use words like "Allegedly", and "Hope this can be
resolved".

Am I seriously the only one on the planet that sees what
has transpired here? Is there any way to resolve a situation
where someone steals from you?
 
I've been an "admin" here for... gah... probably a couple of years now?

There haven't ever really been public staffing notices, and most of us who have moderator type access don't really even mention it (I bet there aren't a lot of folks here that know I'm a moderator!). So Asok not being on the staff anymore... I'm not sure why you would have expected an announcement?

How come the admin staff aren't more clearly tagged? I think it would be helpful. It is how I see it on a lot of other forums. "Admin" appears somewhere on their profile. Just an idea.
 
It seriously bewilders me, that after all is said and done, that
people use words like "Allegedly", and "Hope this can be
resolved".

Am I seriously the only one on the planet that sees what
has transpired here? Is there any way to resolve a situation
where someone steals from you?

That is why I asked, what can you do? IT SUCKS. I would never engage in it myself. I completely AGREE with you. But what can you do? Have him arrested? It is not that kind of theft. I am sure he will be banned which I think is fitting but anything beyond that, ??? I have no ideas, but I am sure he will never be welcome here again.
 
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Its a Shame this is happening FettDad was the first person who extended a helping hand to me and infact recomened Fettpride to me
so
To FettDad (if you even read this) thanks and good luck on your future
To Fettpride sorry you must constantly bear this burden and thank you for being very proffesional about this matter
 
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