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  1. Spideyfett is offline Spideyfett
    Jun 6, 2007, 12:55 PM - Re: Recasting discussion #76

    Quote The Clayster said: View Post
    Almost everything I say on this board gets misinterpreted, I just get used to it.

    Meeting everyone at CIV was awesome, also when I had random TDH'ers come up to me and say "whats up?"
    Glad to met you to bro..
  2. Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
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    Jun 6, 2007, 1:05 PM - Re: Recasting discussion #77

    Quote Delta75 said: View Post
    Spidey, keep in mind when you setup shop at something as big as C4 and advertise yourself where the entire audience "is your target audience". Your going to attract a TON of noobs. Is that bad? Well, it can be at sometimes but you never know when the next MOW will show up.

    And that was the whole point of the booth at C4; attract new members. And with this influx of new members, we ALL need to remember to be patient with them and create a friendly and inviting environment.
  3. eighteendelta's Avatar
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    Jun 6, 2007, 1:10 PM - Re: Recasting discussion #78

    Quote The Dent said: View Post
    And that was the whole point of the booth at C4; attract new members. And with this influx of new members, we ALL need to remember to be patient with them and create a friendly and inviting environment.
    This has been my point from the beginning.

    -x
  4. I helped at SDCC '08 The Clayster's Avatar
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    Jun 6, 2007, 1:56 PM - Re: Recasting discussion #79

    Quote eighteendelta said: View Post
    This has been my point from the beginning.

    -x
    Well soemtimes that is hard, I know when I see someone doing something wrong, I dont really say "hey, maybe you might want to try....this alternative"

    I kinda go "No, dont do that, you need to do this" and it comes off as I am saying I am better than they are, etc.
  5. fettpride's Avatar
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    Jun 6, 2007, 2:00 PM - Re: Recasting discussion #80

    Quote Delta75 said: View Post
    There is always someone else FP, don't ever think of yourself as irreplacable, that applies to all aspects of life.

    Quote Delta75 said: View Post
    We all want the "Good Stuff" Spidey, but not at the cost of our dignity to creators with a god complex. I learned a long time ago in my fighting days, there is ALWAYS someone better than you.

    It's statements like this that perplex me What exactly gave you the idea that I feel I'm "Better" than anyone else? Is this simple "misinterpretation" of my board conduct or personality, or do you have some sort of personal beef with me? How can you make statements like "God Complex" and the like and expect that the guy on the receiving end won't take it as a "Baiting" insult? Lets address these statements ...

    Quote Delta75 said: View Post
    There is always someone else FP, don't ever think of yourself as irreplacable, that applies to all aspects of life.
    This comes across like you feel you're actually better than someone else. Wiser at the very least. As if though you've got the answers to the "Meaning of life" or something. Almost like a Father would speak to his son? You really expect that I don't already know this? You don't even know me The last thing I need, is any life lessons from you my friend. I'm not your son. I'm a big boy, and have seen and lived my share. For you to preach like this, comes across as arrogant.


    Quote Delta75 said: View Post
    We all want the "Good Stuff" Spidey, but not at the cost of our dignity to creators with a god complex. I learned a long time ago in my fighting days, there is ALWAYS someone better than you.

    God complex huh? Last time I checked, I put my pants on the same way you do. Unless of course we're talking about the days where my pants are so stiff from bondo and fiberglass resin that I have to stand them up and jump into them

    Look, I know I'm expendable. What exactly ever gave you the impression otherwise? I know "There's always a bigger fish". And no matter where I go, there's always going to be someone that can slap me down. The same goes for you too

    FP
  6. eighteendelta's Avatar
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    Jun 6, 2007, 2:03 PM - Re: Recasting discussion #81

    Quote The Clayster said: View Post
    Well soemtimes that is hard, I know when I see someone doing something wrong, I dont really say "hey, maybe you might want to try....this alternative"

    I kinda go "No, dont do that, you need to do this" and it comes off as I am saying I am better than they are, etc.
    Yeah I come off a bit gruff, it's even worse in person. I'm not a good person, let alone better than anyone here, just to get that straight.

    -x
  7. Wes is offline Wes
    Jun 6, 2007, 2:53 PM - Re: Recasting discussion #82

    FP, you have some serious guilt issues man. Move Along

    And for the record, if I have a personal beef with someone, it will be discussed in person so that there is no miscommunication of feelings via typed words.
  8. Gino's Avatar
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    Jun 6, 2007, 3:15 PM - Re: Recasting discussion #83

    Here's my .2c on recasting.


    If you want to keep stuff from being recast, don't sell it. Someone either through malicious intent or plain ingnorance will at some point copy your stuff (or attmept to). That is true.
    But is that really the attitude you want people with access to great stuff to have? If so, then guess what. Those great items will never see the light of day and you'll have to make do with your janky innacurate scratch builds.

    You see, only a small percent of this community has access to the good stuff and most of those people will never offer those highly sought after items for the fear of someone recasting. And the community suffers as a whole for it.

    The only way anyone can offer anything of quality is if the prop community takes a stance to protect those who make these rare items available.
    It's not whether you scratch build it or not that is important here. It is the person responsible for bringing the rare item into the populace that deserves protection for the item he is bringing because without him...

    If you cannot have access to that great item, as much as it sucks, you have to bite your lip and suck it up. Maybe the next great item will be made available to you. However be mindful that your position on recasting ethics will place you in a catagory of whether or not you can be trusted.
    That's a big part of the reason why some people get stuff and others don't.

    And we are watching.

    P.S.
    Mirax, I believe you can recast soft goods as well by copying patterns of a sold soft good part. That's just as bad as dipping something in silicone. The same concerns I have of releasing a fabric part are the same ones I have for a resin piece.
  9. Spideyfett is offline Spideyfett
    Jun 6, 2007, 3:18 PM - Re: Recasting discussion #84

    AMEN!..Perfect post Gino....makes sense to me..
  10. eighteendelta's Avatar
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    Jun 6, 2007, 3:30 PM - Re: Recasting discussion #85

    I think the big difference between the resin and soft parts is, that even to 'reverse engineer' a jumpsuit or ammo pouch, you still need a certain skill set to reproduce that item. With resin, anyone can watch a half hour DVD on casting then buy the supplies and make a garbage recast to sell cheap. Maybe I am wrong to think that was the thinking behind Mirax's statement. I agree that both are equally offensive and neither should be tolerated, I think the cost/benefits would push most unscrupulous people towards the hard parts when it comes to knockoffs.

    -x
  11. fettpride's Avatar
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    Jun 6, 2007, 3:56 PM - Re: Recasting discussion #86

    Quote Delta75 said: View Post
    FP, you have some serious guilt issues man. Move Along
    This is what I mean. You got it all figured out ...


    Quote Delta75 said: View Post
    And for the record, if I have a personal beef with someone, it will be discussed in person so that there is no miscommunication of feelings via typed words.
    Thats the way it should be. But in a case like this thread, what should be civil discussion, can be tainted easily with colorful remarks such as the ones you've made. It sounds like "Baiting". Don't get me wrong, you're entitled to your personal opinions, just like everyone else. But sometimes, your personal opinion of another member isn't healthy durring a discussion like this. You could actually force your own opinion on someone new that may not have had the chance to make one for themselves yet. It can be interpreted as "flexing your keyboard muscles". Not a sign of a straight shooter that would rather clear the air face to face, or talk through their differences over a brew

    FP
  12. eighteendelta's Avatar
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    Jun 6, 2007, 4:04 PM - Re: Recasting discussion #87

    Quote fettpride said: View Post
    This is what I mean. You got it all figured out ...




    Thats the way it should be. But in a case like this thread, what should be civil discussion, can be tainted easily with colorful remarks such as the ones you've made. It sounds like "Baiting". Don't get me wrong, you're entitled to your personal opinions, just like everyone else. But sometimes, your personal opinion of another member isn't healthy durring a discussion like this. You could actually force your own opinion on someone new that may not have had the chance to make one for themselves yet. It can be interpreted as "flexing your keyboard muscles". Not a sign of a straight shooter that would rather clear the air face to face, or talk through their differences over a brew

    FP
    Perhaps you could talk to some other board members about "flexing their keyboard muscles"? There was a great deal of that done in your defense, the overwhelming majority of it was from others. There seems to be an effort to overlook that from time to time. (No that's not an attack on the admins or mods)

    I don't really want to continue this indefinitely, we eventually should think about an endpoint for all of this. I don't think we are going to all come to a single unified consensus on this topic or a lot of others for that matter. It's been good to air our grievances but it's distracting from the topic at hand. Costuming and having fun.

    -x
  13. Wes is offline Wes
    Jun 6, 2007, 4:18 PM - Re: Recasting discussion #88

    Quote fettpride said: View Post
    Not a sign of a straight shooter that would rather clear the air face to face, or talk through their differences over a brew

    FP
    I look forward to our official introduction over that brew FP
  14. fettpride's Avatar
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    Jun 6, 2007, 4:27 PM - Re: Recasting discussion #89

    Quote Delta75 said: View Post
    I look forward to our official introduction over that brew FP
    Now that there is the best thing I've heard in two days ! I'm all about it! First round on me

    FP
  15. Rich D.'s Avatar
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    Jun 6, 2007, 4:32 PM - Re: Recasting discussion #90

    Man, I love these threads. I wish I wasn't at work, so I could post an even longer response. I swear this is mostly on-topic...

    Quote Gino said: View Post
    If you want to keep stuff from being recast, don't sell it.
    Quote Gino said: View Post
    I believe you can recast soft goods as well by copying patterns of a sold soft good part. That's just as bad as dipping something in silicone. The same concerns I have of releasing a fabric part are the same ones I have for a resin piece.
    It's disappointing to see members go in the direction of "my contribution to the community will be copied or otherwise re-purposed, maybe *gasp* without due credit to me, so I shouldn't contribute at all". I guess I have a bigger issue with the philosophy under which a lot of hardware parts are offered on TDH, in contrast to the way other useful contributions are made here.

    Why do folks like wizardofflight contribute incredibly comprehensive armor and helmet templates? Why have I spent several weekends drawing ESB paint scratch templates? Why do people post helpful tips and techniques in progress threads? For example:

    http://www.thedentedhelmet.com/showthread.php?t=13420

    We do it so that TDH members can expand their skill base and multiply their talents. And so we can all make great costumes!

    I don't have the time or the space to do sculpting or mold making (though I studied it in college), so I try to contribute to the SW fan community in other ways where I am capable. I'm generally against the idea of someone not receiving credit where it's due. However, people here should remember that the ultimate goal is that everyone here gets to make progress on their costumes, and everybody has the best resources to do so.

    I'd rather see folks who make a hardware part here encourage other members to pick up the manufacture later. I'd rather see 30 people making aluminum parts, 30 people making armor and helmets, 30 people making soft parts, etc. based off of the best reference designs. Users like WOF (for example) enable that kind of propagation of ideas and skill.

    Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I'll go back to drawing decals and fabric patterns and will continue posting what I make for everyone to use.
  16. I helped at SDCC '08 The Clayster's Avatar
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    Jun 6, 2007, 4:39 PM - Re: Recasting discussion #91

    Quote Spideyfett said: View Post
    Glad to met you to bro..

    That was awesome.
  17. Community Founder Art Andrews's Avatar
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    Jun 6, 2007, 4:48 PM - Re: Recasting discussion #92

    I am with Count Dookie. For me, it is more important that the few finds I have made are known by the general populous than the fact that I found them is known. I do get a bit irritated when others try to take credit for my efforts, but in general I just want the information out there and available so people can use it to make a better costume.
  18. Wes is offline Wes
    Jun 6, 2007, 4:50 PM - Re: Recasting discussion #93

    Quote [B said:
    Gino][/B]
    If you want to keep stuff from being recast, don't sell it.

    Quote Count Dookie said: View Post
    It's disappointing to see members go in the direction of "my contribution to the community will be copied or otherwise re-purposed, maybe *gasp* without due credit to me, so I shouldn't contribute at all". I guess I have a bigger issue with the philosophy under which a lot of hardware parts are offered on TDH, in contrast to the way other useful contributions are made here.
    If you ever see any of Gino's work you'll know why he doesn't want it floating around to just anyone. Even though his bucket was not "scrathbuilt" he did enough that it might as well have been.
  19. Tim Allen's Avatar
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    Jun 6, 2007, 4:55 PM - Re: Recasting discussion #94

    Quote Delta75 said: View Post
    [/I]
    If you ever see any of Gino's work you'll know why he doesn't want it floating around to just anyone. Even though his bucket was not "scrathbuilt" he did enough that it might as well have been.

    True but alot of people act as if we own these prop rights, no matter if we sculpted, catsed it off an orignal......ect I think we take for granted that we're ALLOWED to do this and LFL doesnt shut all of this down.

    As ive said before recasting is wrong but we shouldnt have this above all attitude and pretend that these are OUR own pieces that we created. In some form or another we stealing others designs from the movie and we lucky to be allowed to be even doing this without any license.


    And for the record I think Fett Pride has take the right approach as a dealer and not hiding his products but mass producing for TDH and making his name be known as the go to guy. Ive seen to many times in the past members offering top notch stuff to only sell them to a select few, which IMO is heading down the wrong road.
    Last edited by Tim Allen; Jun 6, 2007 at 5:09 PM.
  20. Gino's Avatar
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    Jun 6, 2007, 5:24 PM - Re: Recasting discussion #95

    Most of the time, when you see people only selling to a select few, it's because it is to people who have gained their trust. Can you blame them?

    Also, we all know that none of us own the "true rights" to any of this stuff. No one is arguing that. But for people who are lucky enough to have obtained "the good stuff" to offer it to the populace, the only way they are going to continue to do that is if they feel that what they are bringing forth is going to be protected from mass distrubution. That's what it really boils down to.
    Trust, and a feeling of security that they aren't just giving away their opportunity to sell or trade their special item for other things in the future.
    If everyone has it, it will have lost it's special-ness, therefore losing its value, and therefore losing it's power to open doors for new acqisitions or selling value.

    If you've never had a rare item (prop-wise), I'm sure it is difficult to understand the reasoning behind what I'm saying.
    Trust me when I say that if your goal is to stay in this hobby and collect the rare coveted items, the only way that is going to happen is by realizing the importance of discretion, limited runs, and CONTROL over the distribution of the rare item to not fall into the hands of someone who is going to mass produce it.

    You want these rare items to come available to you, they come with a price in the form of a recasting ethic. You can't have it both ways.
    If you take shady means to get your trinket now, you might be serving yourself for the immediate, but ultimately will be doing a HUGE disservice for yourself later because no one will trust you to have any of their rare items.

    The bringer forth of the rare item must be protected AS IF he were the original artist otherwise they never will bring them forth.

    In my best soup nazi voice, "No super accurate rocket pack for you!"
  21. DarthMiller's Avatar
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    Jun 6, 2007, 7:42 PM - Re: Recasting discussion #96

    WOW..

    trust me dude...he has no guilt issues. FP is a good guy and has done great things for this community. i dont understand why people are attacking him.

    lets "MOVE ALONG" and get back on topic


    Quote Delta75 said: View Post
    FP, you have some serious guilt issues man. Move Along

    And for the record, if I have a personal beef with someone, it will be discussed in person so that there is no miscommunication of feelings via typed words.
  22. drokkul's Avatar
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    Jun 6, 2007, 10:13 PM - Re: Recasting discussion #97

    Quote The Clayster said: View Post
    Almost everything I say on this board gets misinterpreted, I just get used to it.

    Just what the heck is this supposed to mean?!? HUNH?!? HUNH?!?!!

    J/K couldn't let that one go by
  23. Boba Fett's Avatar
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    Jun 6, 2007, 10:17 PM - Re: Recasting discussion #98

    Cast away my friends, cast away. But don't recast away.
  24. Boba Fett's Avatar
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    Jun 6, 2007, 10:17 PM - Re: Recasting discussion #99

    Wow last night we set a new record for the most members online at the same time.
  25. Wes is offline Wes
    Jun 6, 2007, 10:20 PM - Re: Recasting discussion #100

    Quote DarthMiller said: View Post
    WOW..

    trust me dude...he has no guilt issues. FP is a good guy and has done great things for this community. i dont understand why people are attacking him.

    lets "MOVE ALONG" and get back on topic
    I'm pretty sure FP and I have already made things clear and have moved along Miller.

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