Recasting discussion
- Thread starter evan4218
- Start date
Jango and Zam
Active Hunter
I'm looking for a helmet and don't know who to buy from.
Which is the best?
Who has the best cast ?
Who dose the best work?
What it comes down to for me (new guy).
What I like ,What I can afford. And reseach on the Dented Helmet.
And I have read a lot of threads to day still trying to decide on which one to buy.
Which is the best?
Who has the best cast ?
Who dose the best work?
What it comes down to for me (new guy).
What I like ,What I can afford. And reseach on the Dented Helmet.
And I have read a lot of threads to day still trying to decide on which one to buy.
eighteendelta
Active Hunter
Big question.
Hotly debated.
Some issues people are going to ask are things like what size is your head? or how tall are you?
Price range?
Plan on painting yourself or are you looking for a finished helmet?
If you get a kit form you can still pay someone else to paint/weather it.
There are other things but I will leave it to one of the more experienced members to carry it from here.
This probably isn't the best thread to address this question as well. Try the Boba helmet section if that's appropriate or the Jango section if that's appropriate.
-x
Hippo Clone
Active Hunter
"The dent allows those recasts on the cargo hold because it lets us the users decide for ourselves what is right and wrong to purchase. I believe that has been stated many times before."
if you say this then i am free to decide (cranberries) but then why do they have a recasting rule. to me it sounds like a double standard. you cant recast here, dont try to sell a recast but YOU decide wether or not you want to buy it. that sounds like a revovling door.
"Copying or duplicating, any item, with or without modification, without consent from the license holder, original creator, original artist, trademark holder, or copyright holder IS recasting. Deliberately recasting another member’s creation without consent is not supported by this community."
to me it says exactely what is says. if you copy ones work, it is recasting. if you copy a members work that is recasting and not tolerated. so to me it states 2 recasting issues. companies and members.
i would like the dent to chime in. i am very curious on his take.
if you say this then i am free to decide (cranberries) but then why do they have a recasting rule. to me it sounds like a double standard. you cant recast here, dont try to sell a recast but YOU decide wether or not you want to buy it. that sounds like a revovling door.
"Copying or duplicating, any item, with or without modification, without consent from the license holder, original creator, original artist, trademark holder, or copyright holder IS recasting. Deliberately recasting another member’s creation without consent is not supported by this community."
to me it says exactely what is says. if you copy ones work, it is recasting. if you copy a members work that is recasting and not tolerated. so to me it states 2 recasting issues. companies and members.
i would like the dent to chime in. i am very curious on his take.
Hippo Clone, while you have a number of very valid points and bring up issues that every member should carefully consider, you appear to be confused in regard to TDH's statement in the CoC in regard to recasting.
In your example above, the DP helmet IS a recast as defined by TDH's CoC. The problem lies in your expectation of a reaction from the administration to the helmet being a recast. Your assumption that nothing is done due to the member selling it having a high post count is erroneous. There is no special treatment because a member posts often and there is no "grandfathering in" on a board level. Whether a senior member or a newbie made this sale, it would be left up to the members to decide if they wish to support this form of recasting.
Again, there is no argument that the helmet in question is a recast. Again your assumption that the sale is allowed because "they have the worst customer satisfaction, extended release dates, and they are no longer going to make star wars helmets" is incorrect. And again, it is left to the members to decide whether they will support this form of recasting.
Incorrect again. The administration is not "looking the other way." At this point I feel like a broken record, but just to make sure there is no cofusion, mystery casting are recasts. It is left to the members to decide whether they will support this form of recasting.
I have never entirely understood this myself in regard to anything other than one sculptor selling the rights to his sculpt to someone else. Why anyone would pay for "rights" to anyone other than the original sculptor is very confusing because the seller doesn't actually have the authority to grant such rights. This seems to be extremely prevalent in the strormtrooper armor and helmet circles but fortunately is not as prevalent here.
From what you have said it seems that you believe that there is some type of punishment for anyone who makes or sells a recast item. This is not the case. Although it has been posted previously, the recasting rule states:
"Copying or duplicating, any item, with or without modification, without consent from the license holder, original creator, original artist, trademark holder, or copyright holder IS recasting. Deliberately recasting another member’s creation without consent is not supported by this community."
NinNak_aka nailed it when he posted:
I am not sure how we can be more clear or concise than that. You may not agree with that stance, and that is ok, but from previous experience, we feel this is the best approach.
D
Just finished commenting on your earlier post, but let me clarify based on what you have written here.
The first sentence of the recasting "rule" is indeed a statement. It defines what is considered a recast item here at TDH. While this statement defines a recast, it does not place a judgement on a recast item, good or bad. This applies to any recast item, be it from a studio, a licensee, or an individual.
The second sentence states that this community does not support the recasting of a member's creation. Read that carefully. This community does not support the recasting of a member's creation. Again, a statement and this time there is an implied judgment that recasting another member's work is frowned upon. However, unlike many of the other stances in the CoC, there is not a defined punishment for such an action. Does this mean the administration would do nothing if a member's creation was recast? That would be determined on a case by case basis and we refuse to make a blanket statement because experience has shown us that such situations almost always involve a misunderstanding and extenuating circumstances.
As has been stated ad nauseam, instead of taking on the badge of "recasting" police", the administration has left the decision of supporting or not supporting recasters in the hands of the members. They will determine this with their $$$. However, as with any stance here at TDH, "the administrative staff reserves the right to change and interpret this code as they see fit. Anything they feel is unbecoming of TDH will be removed at their digression. The judgments and decisions of the administrative staff are final."
Again, you may not agree with this stance, but hopefully you better understand it.
D
Ordo Te skot
Hunter
I know that I am relatively new here, and perhaps it's not my place to step in here... but here goes:
From my point of view, pretty much *any* unlicensed replica, whether modified or not, is in violation of copywright law, and is technically a "recast". You're always going to have that one or two irrational people who are going to make an issue of that. In that case, it comes down to points of view basically.
All of the wonderful fan-based stuff simply wouldn't exist if some of us didn't copy, in some form or another, the original work. It's all an idea, that we are fortunate enough to be a part of.
As for my view, I look at it like this: MR sucks. Ask almost anyone who was at the RPF when MR came into being. Add that to the fact that their customer service sucks, and most of their items are made to cater to the wealthy, and then some issues with their accuracy(most of the time). Someone like me, who can't afford $150 - $500 per item in my collection, has to either go without, make our own stuff from scratch, or find someone who offers a "build it yourself" kit, which official outlets don't offer. To us, and I mean people like me, it's not about making money... I would never try to make copies of someone else's idea or work to make a profit. To me, people who make runs of items solely to make a profit (Most of the aforementioned EBAY recasters) should be run out of the market. They don't generally give a **** about quality, and they're not in it for the love of the hobby. They're in it solely for money.
On the other hand, you have people here, who re-design and/or re-cast and modify pieces... To provide better quality, better accuracy, variety, and a whole host of reasons. And yes, some of the pieces cost alot of $$$... But most of the time, it's by someone who cares about the hobby rather than someone out to make a buck. In my mind, it's the intent that should matter. If someone re-casts or re-sculpts something that's either not available in the first place, or not available currently, then they are doing the hobby a favor. Most of us aren't in this hobby for an "investment", we're in it for personal enjoyment.
That being said, to me it comes down to intent, and what's available by other members.
From my point of view, pretty much *any* unlicensed replica, whether modified or not, is in violation of copywright law, and is technically a "recast". You're always going to have that one or two irrational people who are going to make an issue of that. In that case, it comes down to points of view basically.
All of the wonderful fan-based stuff simply wouldn't exist if some of us didn't copy, in some form or another, the original work. It's all an idea, that we are fortunate enough to be a part of.
As for my view, I look at it like this: MR sucks. Ask almost anyone who was at the RPF when MR came into being. Add that to the fact that their customer service sucks, and most of their items are made to cater to the wealthy, and then some issues with their accuracy(most of the time). Someone like me, who can't afford $150 - $500 per item in my collection, has to either go without, make our own stuff from scratch, or find someone who offers a "build it yourself" kit, which official outlets don't offer. To us, and I mean people like me, it's not about making money... I would never try to make copies of someone else's idea or work to make a profit. To me, people who make runs of items solely to make a profit (Most of the aforementioned EBAY recasters) should be run out of the market. They don't generally give a **** about quality, and they're not in it for the love of the hobby. They're in it solely for money.
On the other hand, you have people here, who re-design and/or re-cast and modify pieces... To provide better quality, better accuracy, variety, and a whole host of reasons. And yes, some of the pieces cost alot of $$$... But most of the time, it's by someone who cares about the hobby rather than someone out to make a buck. In my mind, it's the intent that should matter. If someone re-casts or re-sculpts something that's either not available in the first place, or not available currently, then they are doing the hobby a favor. Most of us aren't in this hobby for an "investment", we're in it for personal enjoyment.
That being said, to me it comes down to intent, and what's available by other members.
fettpride
Well-Known Hunter
Well, this has been an exhausting day hasn't it?
I've scanned about 90% of this thread but can't really do it much longer as my eyes are failing me at the moment. (Gettin OLD !)
But there are a few things I'd like to address ...
Me too. And me too. So here it comes ....
There seriously need to be a correction here. And there are a few member that have even been debating this today, however I feel the need to point this out, yet again ... DEAD HORSE
I bought the molds bro. Not a cast. Didn't make a mold of a single cast. Therefore I did not "Recast" the helmet. I've produced "castings from said molds". There is a HUGE difference. Does that make it a not so gray area where it comes to intellectual rights violations? Absolutely not. I've never disagreed that I'm in violation of this. But bro, let me just let ya in on a little secret ... so are YOU. Anyone who buys what we make, is partaking in intellectual rights violations. At least morally and ethically anyway For instance, as a cop, not only did I arrest the drug supplier, but also the buyer. Get it?
But that leads me to something even more interesting. Why is it that in every thread started on this topic, it all comes down to bashing makers, whether or not they are legit or otherwise? Does it even occur to those that argue these topics every time we turn around, that without the makers, legit or otherwise, ya'll would be doing it yourselves? What about the luxury of clicking "Buy-It-Now", or "PM SENT !" Every time you guys argue about these topics, the "Good Guys", self admittedly, always get flogged for providing a service and get taken for granted, until the next time you want something?
Now I'm not talking about you in this case, because to my knowledge, you've never purchased anything from me, but good grief bro? You've thrown my name around quite a bit today "just as an example" but it sure looks like you have a problem with me.
It comes down to this. If guys like myself, Man of War, SGB, Mardon, Ruffkintoys, BKBT, ect, ect, didn't exist because of the fickle back and forth at your convenience, boards like this, wouldn't exist as we know it. And guess what, even George Lucas himself has acknowledged this these days. I have the utmost respect for the man, and his empire, but realistically, he or his advisors have come to terms with, it's ppl like "US" as a community, that keep the interest and addictions going. As long as ppl like me aren’t' looking to capitalize on his intellectual property in an attempt to get rich, he actually appreciates what we do for him and his bottom line.
Personally, I've never sold enough to get rich. And never intend to. I have never considered myself an armorer, or a one stop shop. I don't even make a Jet Pack for goodness sake. I've offered what I've had, when I could, as a service here. And that leads me to a related notion ..
I've been turning a blind eye for sometime now. It's becoming more and more apparent that the more I let it go, the worse it will get over time. For months now, ppl have been comfortable enough to label me a "recaster" from time to time. Even if just simple semantics, it's not boding well with me. So lets clear a few things up, shall we?
Lets start with what I have made, with my own bare hands. Gauntlets. Armor. That's all I've ever offered besides the MSH2 until recently. How is it that I am a recaster? I have proof I made these items. Some of our administrators were even involved in the conception of these items.
Then comes the MSH2. Lets clear that one up again. It started as an MSH. Got it. This is the short answer. Once again, I purchased the rights from Natty15d. One of this boards finest artisans. He was no longer interested in making them available. It was hurting his relationship with his significant other who eventually became his wife and mother of his child. He put them up for sale. I stepped up to the plate when no one else could find funding, because I didn't want to see his creation exploited by some shady character. So we agreed on a price, and I paid it. How is this bad? K , so from there, I decided to make a new one. Initially, it was based on the MSH. In a very short time, it became a new sculpt. Just like the original artist sculpted his MSH using an old DP as an armature, I did the same, using a casting of the MSH1, that I purchased the rights to. Again, private original artist, whom I purchased the right to carry on. NOT RECASTING in an sense used in the CoC. The MSH2 was then released. And expired after a short run, and has never been produced since. Yeah, I'm really in this to rape the members of their purses here
Then, comes Jango. Ooops. I can't begin to tell you that I regret this darned thing more and more everyday. You get ppl saying things like this ...
It was obvious that it was me he was referring to. Making statements saying that I might not release something couldn't be more true as I have made or eluded to it. "Not to stroke my own ego, or to get anyone else to stroke it. But simply because this Jango has been a thorn in my side from day one. I would much rather eat my losses then to deal with this kind of ****. Ya know? And sure, you could care less, but what about the Jango fans out there that pay the price when I throw in the towel?
If the Jango helmet is why ppl are getting comfortable with calling me a recaster, it needs to be nipped, here and now. For the last time, I didn't cast a cast. I purchased molds. Yes, copyright, and intellectual rights violations. But not recaster in the sense used in the CoC for pete sake.
Anyone else want to call me a recaster? Tell me why. Give me a real good reason, and I'll step back. I've always been the first to step up and call someone out for recasting. Hello, "Fettpropartist" in the recent past? I was banned for calling out Randy5000. And I've even been wrong in my accusations in the past. But I've always thrown caution to the wind and risked my standing with this forum to fight against it when no one else had the nuggets for it. Some of you are too new to even remember.
This is getting truly ridiculous guys and gals. Either you support those who help you support your habit, or you support your habit alone. Talk about mixed signals, and talking through both sides of your mouths? I've done nothing but try to please everyone I can. And I get labelled an egomaniac, an elitist, just to name a few.
And as far as those calling me out for getting bent over someone threatening to recast this helmet? let me draw your attention to the statement I made on the other thread. Shall we?
Does this look like I'm crying about it? Does this look like hypocrisy? If ya'll want to recast it, GO FOR IT! You'll have a teeny weenie kiddie helmet when you're done. And not to mention, there will always be a majority of us here on this forum that want as close to 1st genereation as possible. Why would I worry about a 3rd or 4th gen floating around?
Lets just get the air clear here. Do you guys (and gals) really want cool toys, or not?
Ya know, this is a very unique way of looking at it. Never considered that myself. Interesting, to say the least. Great job bro :cheers
Just my 2 cents. Keep ‘em coming. I've got nothing better to do :facepalm
FP
I've scanned about 90% of this thread but can't really do it much longer as my eyes are failing me at the moment. (Gettin OLD !)
But there are a few things I'd like to address ...
Me too. And me too. So here it comes ....
There seriously need to be a correction here. And there are a few member that have even been debating this today, however I feel the need to point this out, yet again ... DEAD HORSE
I bought the molds bro. Not a cast. Didn't make a mold of a single cast. Therefore I did not "Recast" the helmet. I've produced "castings from said molds". There is a HUGE difference. Does that make it a not so gray area where it comes to intellectual rights violations? Absolutely not. I've never disagreed that I'm in violation of this. But bro, let me just let ya in on a little secret ... so are YOU. Anyone who buys what we make, is partaking in intellectual rights violations. At least morally and ethically anyway
For instance, as a cop, not only did I arrest the drug supplier, but also the buyer. Get it? But that leads me to something even more interesting. Why is it that in every thread started on this topic, it all comes down to bashing makers, whether or not they are legit or otherwise? Does it even occur to those that argue these topics every time we turn around, that without the makers, legit or otherwise, ya'll would be doing it yourselves?
What about the luxury of clicking "Buy-It-Now", or "PM SENT !" Every time you guys argue about these topics, the "Good Guys", self admittedly, always get flogged for providing a service and get taken for granted, until the next time you want something? Now I'm not talking about you in this case, because to my knowledge, you've never purchased anything from me, but good grief bro? You've thrown my name around quite a bit today "just as an example" but it sure looks like you have a problem with me.
It comes down to this. If guys like myself, Man of War, SGB, Mardon, Ruffkintoys, BKBT, ect, ect, didn't exist because of the fickle back and forth at your convenience, boards like this, wouldn't exist as we know it. And guess what, even George Lucas himself has acknowledged this these days. I have the utmost respect for the man, and his empire, but realistically, he or his advisors have come to terms with, it's ppl like "US" as a community, that keep the interest and addictions going. As long as ppl like me aren’t' looking to capitalize on his intellectual property in an attempt to get rich, he actually appreciates what we do for him and his bottom line.
Personally, I've never sold enough to get rich. And never intend to. I have never considered myself an armorer, or a one stop shop. I don't even make a Jet Pack for goodness sake. I've offered what I've had, when I could, as a service here. And that leads me to a related notion ..
I've been turning a blind eye for sometime now. It's becoming more and more apparent that the more I let it go, the worse it will get over time. For months now, ppl have been comfortable enough to label me a "recaster" from time to time. Even if just simple semantics, it's not boding well with me. So lets clear a few things up, shall we?
Lets start with what I have made, with my own bare hands. Gauntlets. Armor. That's all I've ever offered besides the MSH2 until recently. How is it that I am a recaster? I have proof I made these items. Some of our administrators were even involved in the conception of these items.
Then comes the MSH2. Lets clear that one up again. It started as an MSH. Got it. This is the short answer. Once again, I purchased the rights from Natty15d. One of this boards finest artisans. He was no longer interested in making them available. It was hurting his relationship with his significant other who eventually became his wife and mother of his child. He put them up for sale. I stepped up to the plate when no one else could find funding, because I didn't want to see his creation exploited by some shady character. So we agreed on a price, and I paid it. How is this bad? K , so from there, I decided to make a new one. Initially, it was based on the MSH. In a very short time, it became a new sculpt. Just like the original artist sculpted his MSH using an old DP as an armature, I did the same, using a casting of the MSH1, that I purchased the rights to. Again, private original artist, whom I purchased the right to carry on. NOT RECASTING in an sense used in the CoC. The MSH2 was then released. And expired after a short run, and has never been produced since. Yeah, I'm really in this to rape the members of their purses here
Then, comes Jango. Ooops. I can't begin to tell you that I regret this darned thing more and more everyday. You get ppl saying things like this ...
It was obvious that it was me he was referring to. Making statements saying that I might not release something couldn't be more true as I have made or eluded to it. "Not to stroke my own ego, or to get anyone else to stroke it. But simply because this Jango has been a thorn in my side from day one. I would much rather eat my losses then to deal with this kind of ****. Ya know? And sure, you could care less, but what about the Jango fans out there that pay the price when I throw in the towel?
If the Jango helmet is why ppl are getting comfortable with calling me a recaster, it needs to be nipped, here and now. For the last time, I didn't cast a cast. I purchased molds. Yes, copyright, and intellectual rights violations. But not recaster in the sense used in the CoC for pete sake.
Anyone else want to call me a recaster? Tell me why. Give me a real good reason, and I'll step back. I've always been the first to step up and call someone out for recasting. Hello, "Fettpropartist" in the recent past? I was banned for calling out Randy5000. And I've even been wrong in my accusations in the past. But I've always thrown caution to the wind and risked my standing with this forum to fight against it when no one else had the nuggets for it. Some of you are too new to even remember.
This is getting truly ridiculous guys and gals. Either you support those who help you support your habit, or you support your habit alone. Talk about mixed signals, and talking through both sides of your mouths? I've done nothing but try to please everyone I can. And I get labelled an egomaniac, an elitist, just to name a few.
And as far as those calling me out for getting bent over someone threatening to recast this helmet? let me draw your attention to the statement I made on the other thread. Shall we?
If you want a recast, they exist. Ya want a contact? PM me. I'd be happy to pass on the biz. It will be a 3rd, 4th, or maybe even 5th generation casting, may or may not be cold cast, even if it is, won't be done to any exacting standard. Guaranteed. Oh, and you'll be lucky if a 5 yr old could where it, as they're already on the small side as it is.
Why would I do that and seemingly shoot myself in the foot you might ask? Because, first, I absolutely HATE making them. It is a bigger PAIN IN THE RUMP than you can possibly imagine. If you're casting them with any pride that is. So I'm in no hurry, really
So, ya want one? A recast? More power to ya. Hell, I could help ya out with that too, I have some old silicone laying around I can send ya for cheap
FP
Does this look like I'm crying about it? Does this look like hypocrisy? If ya'll want to recast it, GO FOR IT! You'll have a teeny weenie kiddie helmet when you're done. And not to mention, there will always be a majority of us here on this forum that want as close to 1st genereation as possible. Why would I worry about a 3rd or 4th gen floating around?
Lets just get the air clear here. Do you guys (and gals) really want cool toys, or not?
Ya know, this is a very unique way of looking at it. Never considered that myself. Interesting, to say the least. Great job bro :cheers
Just my 2 cents. Keep ‘em coming. I've got nothing better to do :facepalm
FP
Last edited by a moderator:
Hippo Clone
Active Hunter
oh dont get me wrong, i am not signaling out anyone one person here or current situation. i could care less. not my work being copied. i just want to understand. thanks for responding.
ok, so you just clarify what recasting is outside the dented helmet forum, then recasting a tdh members work is not supported by the community. hmm. i understand now. its frowned upon but if a member recasts its up to the community not to support. no secret police or flogging. i must be tired.
and the mr paragragh. i wasnt being literal, the statement is what i have heard through many forums. i ment it as the cohesive consious of the people. they blame mr to justify recasting their helmet to make a profit.
ok, i have read your replies, i am cool with it. your forum, your rules. i am prior military. i am used to ONLY black or white, not gray. gray area is when if you get away with it, great, count your blessings, if you are caught, a courtmartial/trial will proove you wrong. like i said, i just wanted clarification.
i like this one-----
"As far as I remember LFL and MR and DP are not memebers of this board as they are not one person and no one person is responsible for the buckets in question. If there was one person souly responsible that was a contributing member of the community I think there would be a bigger problem with recasting their work."
so since it doesnt affect the person directly (hence a company made up of thousands) its ok to rip them off? so if there was a mr rep on this board like the rpf, then would that apply nik nak aka?
ok, so you just clarify what recasting is outside the dented helmet forum, then recasting a tdh members work is not supported by the community. hmm. i understand now. its frowned upon but if a member recasts its up to the community not to support. no secret police or flogging. i must be tired.
and the mr paragragh. i wasnt being literal, the statement is what i have heard through many forums. i ment it as the cohesive consious of the people. they blame mr to justify recasting their helmet to make a profit.
ok, i have read your replies, i am cool with it. your forum, your rules. i am prior military. i am used to ONLY black or white, not gray. gray area is when if you get away with it, great, count your blessings, if you are caught, a courtmartial/trial will proove you wrong. like i said, i just wanted clarification.
i like this one-----
"As far as I remember LFL and MR and DP are not memebers of this board as they are not one person and no one person is responsible for the buckets in question. If there was one person souly responsible that was a contributing member of the community I think there would be a bigger problem with recasting their work."
so since it doesnt affect the person directly (hence a company made up of thousands) its ok to rip them off? so if there was a mr rep on this board like the rpf, then would that apply nik nak aka?
Ordo Te skot
Hunter
Bottom line bro, to me, is do you want to be able to participate in the costuming hobby, or not? If you have such a problem with replicas, then well, there's the proverbial door.
I for one want to be able to complete my custom armor and wear it. That's not going to happen if I *only* buy "official licensed replicas". They don't make half of what I want. And they darn sure don't do it in custom.
I have alot of respect for the artists here. I may never buy an MSH2 helm, or an HS helm, or one of 99centtaco's nifty belts(just to name a few things). But I appreciate their contributions, and every other artisan's contributions here. It would be a sad day indeed if the only things we were allowed to do was to buy strictly MR stuff and modify it to suit our custom concepts. I'd have to wear BDU's and an MR helm, and that's about it, mate.
So, like I said... if you have such a problem with the idea, you know where the virtual door is. Just my 2 credits.
I for one want to be able to complete my custom armor and wear it. That's not going to happen if I *only* buy "official licensed replicas". They don't make half of what I want. And they darn sure don't do it in custom.
I have alot of respect for the artists here. I may never buy an MSH2 helm, or an HS helm, or one of 99centtaco's nifty belts(just to name a few things). But I appreciate their contributions, and every other artisan's contributions here. It would be a sad day indeed if the only things we were allowed to do was to buy strictly MR stuff and modify it to suit our custom concepts. I'd have to wear BDU's and an MR helm, and that's about it, mate.
So, like I said... if you have such a problem with the idea, you know where the virtual door is. Just my 2 credits.
Tim Allen
Well-Known Hunter
Recasting is wrong not matter what but the way I look at it is, were all very lucky to be even doing this at all. If LFL wanted too they could slam the hammer down on us and that would be the end of that.
I personally havnt had any of my stuff recasted that i know of but eventually when I release my Gladiator helmet/armor I wont be suprised if it does. Ive spent at least a years on the helmet and another half on the armor and to tell you tell you that I wouldnt get upset if it gets recasted would be a lie, but it is what it is. Did I create the armor and helmet design??..... No, so techincally I have no rights to sell it than the recaster. Just because someone "purchased" molds from another doesnt give any right either. So all in all no one here really has any right to create,copy and sell any of this but luckly LFL turns the other way.
Either way recasting isnt going to stop, but I figured instead of depriving the market and only selling to "certain people" like the TE stormtrooper incident some years back, try flooding the market and let your name be known so people know where to come and get a good transaction from the real deal. IMO part of the reason stuff gets recasted is its not avaliable in quantity and in turn people will see $ signs and sooner or later those few avaliable items will end up in the wrong hands and be casted up.
I personally havnt had any of my stuff recasted that i know of but eventually when I release my Gladiator helmet/armor I wont be suprised if it does. Ive spent at least a years on the helmet and another half on the armor and to tell you tell you that I wouldnt get upset if it gets recasted would be a lie, but it is what it is. Did I create the armor and helmet design??..... No, so techincally I have no rights to sell it than the recaster. Just because someone "purchased" molds from another doesnt give any right either. So all in all no one here really has any right to create,copy and sell any of this but luckly LFL turns the other way.
Either way recasting isnt going to stop, but I figured instead of depriving the market and only selling to "certain people" like the TE stormtrooper incident some years back, try flooding the market and let your name be known so people know where to come and get a good transaction from the real deal. IMO part of the reason stuff gets recasted is its not avaliable in quantity and in turn people will see $ signs and sooner or later those few avaliable items will end up in the wrong hands and be casted up.
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Hippo Clone,
It seems that your frustration lies in the fact that most people are willing to bend the rules or have flexible morals when it comes to this topic because without it, they would not be able to get a great deal of what they have and in truth, this hobby would not exist. We exist at the leniency of LFL. At any point they could shut us down for copyright violation, but they choose not to. Some have taken this slight freedom and used it to make a living. Others have used it to make their own costumes. At the end of the day, this entire hobby is in violation of LFL's copyright. With that in mind, TDH decided quite some time ago that on some issues we were not going to be the police of each person's morals. We tried a black and white approach to recasting but continually ran into grey areas and continually found that are decisions felt more and more hypocritical. We finally decided that given the fact this hobby as a whole is an infringement on LFL's copyright, we will let the members decide for themselves whether they want to support recasting or not. The reason that we make note of it being frowned upon to recast another member's creation is that we feel we have some level of obligation to protect our members.
If you were hoping for someone to give you an explanation that would somehow justify people's actions, you won't get it because it can't be justified. This hobby exists at the fringe of legality and fortunately, LFL is more interested in having us around to promote their movies and merchandise than enforcing their copyright. The danger to such a leniency is that over time people begin to incorrectly assume an entitlement mantality and begin to believe they have a "right" to do the things they are doing. The lack of reprisal emboldens them and they begin to act in ways that they should not. We would all do well to remember that we exist only at LFL's graciousness and that leniency could be stripped away at any time.
eighteendelta
Active Hunter
FP,
I never called you a recaster, my issue was always over your reaction to a joke, a very tactless joke from a German, who obviously has different cultural view than you when it come to humor. I don't wish to justify his remarks, but I thought it was abundantly clear that it was simply a very dumb joke.
I don't have an issue with the molds and cast in your case, so please understand that. That was the first person, then the second person chimed in with a very inappropriate post. I strongly disagreed with his post about 'recasting because you are a recaster'. Again, I never claimed to see you as a recaster. Then that poster was attacked, not his post, but the poster himself. Ad hominem. That was the second issue I have, even if it's the same as the first. The difference was in the first case you started the assault against the poster and in the second spidey took lead. You had set that example and he happily followed. I know that I would have had no problem with the whole thing if you and spidey had addressed the issues within the posts without attacking the posters themselves, I would have supported you 100%. I would be happy to expound on that if I haven't made my point clear enough.
-x
I never called you a recaster, my issue was always over your reaction to a joke, a very tactless joke from a German, who obviously has different cultural view than you when it come to humor. I don't wish to justify his remarks, but I thought it was abundantly clear that it was simply a very dumb joke.
I don't have an issue with the molds and cast in your case, so please understand that. That was the first person, then the second person chimed in with a very inappropriate post. I strongly disagreed with his post about 'recasting because you are a recaster'. Again, I never claimed to see you as a recaster. Then that poster was attacked, not his post, but the poster himself. Ad hominem. That was the second issue I have, even if it's the same as the first. The difference was in the first case you started the assault against the poster and in the second spidey took lead. You had set that example and he happily followed. I know that I would have had no problem with the whole thing if you and spidey had addressed the issues within the posts without attacking the posters themselves, I would have supported you 100%. I would be happy to expound on that if I haven't made my point clear enough.
-x
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This is indeed a good example and one of the big reasons why only a very select few got a copy of your plug and why no more will ever see the light of day. Such a shame. But to a degree you must let go of said piece for the greater good meaning sharing it with other costumers. Much as you did with the ears.
Does it even occur to those that argue these topics every time we turn around, that without the makers, legit or otherwise, ya'll would be doing it yourselves?
This is a good point and one that I highlighted in my first post and my post in your cargo hold thread. Folks are so quick to cut hairs on the recasting topic when it comes to alot of the artists on this board but are often the first with there hands out as soon as a run starts on armor or a helmet they want.
______
I think I got a glimpse of a less civil version of this thread starting up in FPs thread and I wanted it moved over here, aired out, and wanted to see where it would truly go. Dead horse or not, there still seem to be lots of members who are a bit fuzzy on the boards stance on recasting.
The bottom line in my opinion is that we should be thankful that folks like FP, and RS and others use there skills and knolage on this costume and create some of what they create, remaster what they have remasted and offered us up copys of there end result regardless of how it came to be. (I am just naming these too folks because they are commenting in this thread) Try making a prop from scratch and you will see what a large amount of effort, time and money goes into it. Even a hevy mod on a current one is no walk in the park. At the end of the day my, and many others costumes would not be possible with out what the prop makers on this site do. But keep in mind that very few of the things you know and love on your costume came to be out of a hunk of clay, they started from moded DP deluxes, measurements off screen used peices and other such things.
I think some folks seem to think that is recasting in the common sense of the word but in my eyes its just the art that created the pieces we have on our costume, be it clay, gypsum, metal, modded older sculpts, 3rd gen casts of mystery helmets... ect ect.
Just my 2 cents
Spideyfett
Well-Known Hunter
Dude,
...for the sake of this thread, because it's a good thread with a good debate that EVAN4218 started, and I don't want to see it go down..and since you don't want to continue this in PM where this kinda thing belongs....I would suggest you keep what happened on the Jango FP thread in the Cargo hold were it belongs, over there.... And not try to derail this one....which seems to be your intent.....THIS THREAD IS ABOUT RECASTING, NOT ABOUT YOU GETTING YOUR FEELINGS HURT ON ANOTHER THREAD.And Trust me, even if FP had never posted anything in that thread I still would've called out a Stupid or Inappropriate comment from any member......again you haven't been around here long enough to know I definitely don't need anyones help when I call people out......
Hey, didn't you say you were done with this anyway, something about your "blood pressure"??
Oh and Good luck with your Trash Can Armor and your scratch built Fett, cause it looks like that's all you'll be getting your hands on....since you've shot yourself in the foot in less than 24 hours on this board...real good move bro.
** I do want to apologize to EVAN4218 and the Board for this post.......it is unfortunate.
**Sorry Folks, please Ignore and continue on.
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Like I said to Mirax, if you bought those molds from LFL then no prob, your covered man.
Does that make it a not so gray area where it comes to intellectual rights violations? Absolutely not. I've never disagreed that I'm in violation of this. But bro, let me just let ya in on a little secret ... so are YOU. Anyone who buys what we make, is partaking in intellectual rights violations. At least morally and ethically anyway
I agree.
If the shoe fits..
There is always someone else FP, don't ever think of yourself as irreplacable, that applies to all aspects of life.Does it even occur to those that argue these topics every time we turn around, that without the makers, legit or otherwise, ya'll would be doing it yourselves?
Thats correct, I have never bought anything from you.
eighteendelta
Active Hunter
Dude,
And Trust me, even if FP had never posted anything in that thread I still would've called out a Stupid or Inappropriate comment from any member......again you haven't been around here long enough to know I definitely don't need anyones help when I call people out......
Hey, didn't you say you were done with this anyway, something about your "blood pressure"??
Oh and Good luck with your Trash Can Armor and your scratch built Fett, cause it looks like that's all you'll be getting your hands on....since you've shot yourself in the foot in less than 24 hours on this board...real good move bro.
** I do want to aplogize to EVAN4218 and the Board for this post.......it is unfortunate.
Sorry Folks, please Ignore and continue on.
And the threats continue... not even bothering to pretend to hide them anymore. As far as "blood pressure" you strike me as completely humorless if you can't distinguish a joke from a serious statement, I would never discuss any medical issues with you or anyone else on a forum board. I haven't bought anything from any alleged recasters, nor do I plan on it, so your threats are empty and meaningless to me. I don't feel that anyone has hurt my feelings, it's a hobby man. I don't get too worked up now that I don't have people shooting at me. Call me names, tell me you hate me, whatever.
I read that as "anyone who dares to sell you props or armor will face similar dire consequences". Maybe I am the only one who sees that? I have no desire to derail the topic of conversation, recasting.
I am not sure how that impacts the different arguments on either side, but feel free to form your own opinions.
-x
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eighteendelta, while Spidey could be a bit more tactful, the "threat" you are perceiving is only in your head. Stop playing the victim, realize that the approach you are taking, especially as a newcomer, does not work within this community, and try something different. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result. It appears that you are doing exactly that. Suck up your pride a little and don't be so easily offended. Correction is not an attack. You have stepped on some toes but it is not beyond repair. While you perceive our members to be attacking you, they are actually making an effort to help you. Again, they may not be doing so in the optimal way, but that is clearly their intent.
As a further note in regard to LFL. As I mentioned earlier, we exist only due to LFL's generosity. If we were asked by LFL or a lincensee to stop the sale of particular items on TDH, we would comply immediately. If any of our members were to receive a C&D from LFL we would STRONGLY urge you to comply immediately. LFL is not required to issues a C&D. They can and will sue without warning. Any seller must weigh that risk and keep it in mind. It is one of the dangers we face in this hobby and should never take the privelages LFL extends to us for granted.
As a further note in regard to LFL. As I mentioned earlier, we exist only due to LFL's generosity. If we were asked by LFL or a lincensee to stop the sale of particular items on TDH, we would comply immediately. If any of our members were to receive a C&D from LFL we would STRONGLY urge you to comply immediately. LFL is not required to issues a C&D. They can and will sue without warning. Any seller must weigh that risk and keep it in mind. It is one of the dangers we face in this hobby and should never take the privelages LFL extends to us for granted.
Spideyfett
Well-Known Hunter
Again I want to apologize to the Board....I tried to take it to PM....but oh well.:facepalm
....I tried to take it to PM....but oh well.:facepalmSimilar threads
